sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Google Groups

bob prohaska <bp@www.zefox.net>: Aug 11 04:45AM > various RF elements might all be very wide band, but that doesn't > offer much if the signal levels and efficiencies are so low as to be > useless.   I'm obviously out of date 8-) and more than slightly astonished. So, I can walk into a facility posted "no cellphones or cameras" carrying a turned-off cellphone with a camera plus bluetooth and not be found out so long as I don't turn it on? Most surprising!   Thanks for writing,   bob prohaska

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 10 11:11PM -0700 On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 04:45:31 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska >So, I can walk into a facility posted "no cellphones or cameras" >carrying a turned-off cellphone with a camera plus bluetooth and >not be found out so long as I don't turn it on? Most surprising!   Yep. Better yet, you can have the phone power turned ON, and put the phone in "airplane mode", and not be found. Airplane mode turns off cellular, Wi-Fi, BlueGoof, and possibly NFC. The idea is to prevent any emissions (transmissions) coming from your phone from affected the airplane navigation and communications equipment and causing problems with overloading the local cell towers. Think about 250+ passengers checking into one cell tower upon landing: <http://kwc.org/mythbusters/2006/04/episode_49_cellphones_on_plane.html>   However, there's a catch. Even if airplane mode is turned on, you can turn Wi-Fi and BlueGoof back on. The only part that must be turned off in airplane mode is cellular. Worse, some apps can turn on Wi-Fi or BT when invoked. For example, I recall a BT walkie talkie app that managed to enable BT on startup while in airplane mode. That was years ago, and was presumably fixed by now.   There are also apps that want internet access and provide a helpful dialog box asking the users if they want to connect. It's easy enough to do that by mistake. Yep, I just tried it. I turned on airplane mode, which correctly disabled cellular, Wi-Fi, and BT. I started Firefox browser, which immediately complained "Server not found" and offered me the choices of "Enable Wi-Fi" or "Try Again". However, when I clicked "Enable Wi-Fi", it spun merrily for about 5 minutes, but didn't turn on the Wi-Fi. So, I have a phone[1] where one function is trying to turn OFF Wi-Fi, while another is trying to keep it turned OFF. Toss a coin? Chrome browser did it right by simply announcing "No Internet" and only offering "Cancel" as a choice. Edge browser also did it right by providing some useful suggestions and offered only "Download when online".   Bottom line is you're probably safe in "airplane mode" but need to be very careful not to be tricked into turning on Wi-Fi or BT, or having some application do it for you.   >Thanks for writing, >bob prohaska   [1] Google Pixel 1 running Android 10.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 10 10:01AM -0700 On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 06:15:40 -0700 (PDT), Jeff Urban   >I guess I forgot the extra "N", sorry. i can't rememebr everything.   Cut-n-paste and you won't need to remember.   >You might want to get out of California,   I've thought about that, but not for the reasons you mention. My latest problem is that the local water district wants to build a 125,000 gallon water tank in the middle of my neighborhood. They plan to take a year building it, blocking access to the neighborhood during working hours for most of this time. So, I take off my engineer hat, put on my politician hat, and do battle with the real estate speculators who want to make their unbuildable properties buildable by providing municipal water.   Incidentally, there are many reasons that I'm retiring. The big one is that the area around my office has become somewhat of a homeless encampment. When I discovered that customers and friends were reluctant to visit my office to pickup and drop off their machines, I decided it was time to bail out. That was about years ago. A kidney stone operation and Covid-19 delayed my departure until now.   >Just how big is your house ?   1200 sq-ft. After deducting walk ways, bathroom kitchen, pantry, wood burner, closets, and other areas that can't be used for storage, I'm left with about 500 sq-ft that can be used for storage. The office was 800 sq-ft, most of which was "inventory". As you might suspect, there's not enough room at the house (no garage), so about 1/4th of the junk is in boxes piled up outside on various decks. The plan is to move out first to save money on the rent, and then do triage on the remaining junk, reducing it to a manageable pile before it starts raining.   >I have seen pictures of your shop. With >all that, give them notice now that you'll be out by April or so.   I've already given notice and should be out by the end of the month. I'm about 90% done with the move, leaving only some furniture, piles of papers, some parts, cables, cleaning supplies, etc. <http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/For%20Sale%20or%20Free%202/>   >So you are largely an autodidact. [So am I, but it appears you got >greater challenges to meet in life and thus went farther.   Yeah, something like that. Some people learn best from lectures. Others do best by reading about from a book. I learn best when I get my hands dirty. The best part of that is nobody will pay me to listen to lectures or read books, but will pay nicely to get my hands dirty.   >"Instant" is the bane of the human race.   It's part of progress. Things are happening today faster and faster than they did when I was in skool. 50 years ago, I was allowed only 2 weeks to work out a suitable initial design, followed by 3 months before the first articles were scheduled to be shipped. At the time, I thought this was a horribly fast pace. More recently, I've been helping clean up projects that were designed over a weekend, modeled in LTSpice in a week, PCB designed with KiCad in another week, package designed in SolidWorks in parallel with the PCB, and ready for shipping in 3 weeks, during which time the first boards were tested. End to end, that was about 6 weeks, without ever building a prototype. Going from 14 weeks to 6 weeks is very much "instant" to someone used to a slower pace (like me). That bad news is that makes me obsolete by today's standards.   >we are in very interesting times and November is a crossroads. I do >not watch the news, I have sources that are better than their >sources sources. Some info I get before AP. Some.   So, what does knowing what happens in the news do for you? Will it make money for you, perhaps in investments? Do you use it to predict spending trends? When I look at politics on any level from global politics to office politics, I always ask a simple question. What problem are they trying to solve? If you can answer that simple question, the rest of the picture becomes much clearer.   >within ten feet of you without GPS. The system is designed to >conserve power, both theirs and yours. I can only imagine the >software that runs that shit.   Mostly wrong.   1. You do not understand the theory of operation. When you are able to discuss tradeoffs between occupied bandwidth, BER, SNR, OFDM, MIMO, LTE, various modulation schemes, channel loading, interference, fading, propagation, compression, MOS, error correction, etc, I'll believe you understand the theory of operation. Knowing how a phased antenna array works is like saying you understand how a stereo receiver works because you understand how a capacitor functions. There's much more to the puzzle than knowing about one small piece.   2. 10ft (3m) accuracy is possible, but not by direction finding. Direction finding by any method is subject to difficulties due to interference, multipath reflections, and reference accuracy. The way most of these and other problems are minimized is to produce a large number of lines of position on a map while moving. Some of the lines point to false reflections. Others are from interference. Eventually, you get enough lines that they start to intersect at one point on the map. The transmitter is located somewhere within the blob of lines, which will probably be much wider than 3m.   3. Huge amounts of effort have gone into power reduction at both the handset and the tower. Read about APC (adaptive power control) and ET (envelope tracking) on cell phones and base station transmitters.   >No, in that field I have no reputation to ruin for one. And I have >"Stand corrected" and retracted when proven wrong. I don't mind >people tearing me up, I learn more that way.   I mind very much being told that I'm wrong. I used to sulk for days after getting caught making a stupid mistake. Like falling off a horse, I get back on and try to ride again. It took me literally years to get used to the idea that it was acceptable to screw up.   Gotta run now or I'll be late...   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Urban <jurb6006@gmail.com>: Aug 10 11:19AM -0700 >Mostly true and only if I could fix it after destroying it.   I think you would like having a look at my bench receiver. Been in a fire and a flood. I got a jew joke but I can word it out of it...   Two guys in Florida are talking, one says "My business burnt to the ground, I am getting old and the insurance was enough so I decided to just retire". "Almost the same here, I gto flooded out and said screw it, I have enough money". The first guy says "How do you start a flood ?".   Yeah the bench receive, Pioneer SX-850. Has what I need, pre out main in and all that. Preamp section has some sort of leakage on the board or something and I had to throw in some like 100K resistors to get it to work. The power amp burned up one of the bias pots so that is jumped out. The regulator board is broken in four places and jumpered back together. I had to put outputs in it, I used 2SD425 and 2SB555 I think. And there are two pairs per channel in this 65 watts amp. It is definitely not scared of four ohms. AND IT SOUNDS GREAT ! I can't hear any crossover distortion, though in speakers I usually listen loud.   You do know how to bias an amp right ? In lack of any information find the output (collector) of the main voltage amp, put a scope on it and drive it at a low level. Increase bias until the |_|¯|_|¯| disappears. That is the threshold, you can go beyond that at will, but it has to at least be to that point.   One thing, when it comes to chemistry learning by destroying might not be all it's cracked up to be. You can have some really dastardly accidents with that shit.   So you are in your seventies ans I am to become a sexagenarian on the 18th of this month. That means we both remember how it was. We remember search warrants for example. ut we also remember chemistry sets. Remember those ? I do and if there are any around I bet they don't have much in them. "Oh this is poisonous". So you are giving a chemistry set to a kid you figure doesn't know not to drink the shit ? The Parents are dumber than the kid.   We have seen decades of change and I have concluded the following;   They word has gotten better but people have gotten worse.

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Aug 10 03:15PM -0500 On 8/10/20 1:19 PM, Jeff Urban wrote: >> Mostly true and only if I could fix it after destroying it.   > I think you would like having a look at my bench receiver. Been in a fire and a flood. I got a jew joke but I can word it out of it...   Racist asshole. You just had to go there didn't you>   > We have seen decades of change and I have concluded the following;   > They word has gotten better but people have gotten worse.   You were always an asshole.   -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 10 02:59PM -0700 On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 15:15:49 -0500, Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net> wrote:   >>> Mostly true and only if I could fix it after destroying it.   >> I think you would like having a look at my bench receiver. Been in a fire and a flood. I got a jew joke but I can word it out of it...   >Racist asshole. You just had to go there didn't you>   Oh, be nice. As the default scapegoat and target for everything from bad jokes to genocide, we've learned to deal with the problem. After a few failed revolts, failed assimilations, failed passive resistance, and fails at writing our own jokes, we finally found a solution that works. We just buy everything in sight. At this time, we own Hollywood, banking, music industry, garment business, congressional lobbyists, and have a monopoly on Nobel Prizes. I'm not worried. Jeff #3 will change his tune when he needs something.   >> We have seen decades of change and I have concluded the following;   >> They word has gotten better but people have gotten worse.   That's either the result of speech to text for non-typists, or the worlds worst spelling chequer.   >You were always an asshole.   Like I suggested, be nice. You can still be evil even if you are nice.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Aug 10 05:16PM -0500 On 8/10/20 4:59 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > Like I suggested, be nice. > You can still be evil even if you are nice.   I am, I don't go after him nearly as much as he deserves.     -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

Jeff Urban <jurb6006@gmail.com>: Aug 10 09:32PM -0700 >I am, I don't go after him nearly as much as he deserves.   There is a fly in the house. One. I am just waiting for the little son of a bitch to die.   I give you two guesses about whether I care about that more, or your worthless, judgmental, sanctimonious opinion.   How do you end a Fox's Mercantile party ? Flush the punch bowl.

Jeff Urban <jurb6006@gmail.com>: Aug 10 10:33PM -0700 >> They word has gotten better but people have gotten worse.   >That's either the result of speech to text for non-typists, or the >worlds worst spelling chequer.   No, it is the result of fast typing and not that great eyesight. Of course I wanted "world" there.   I have dealt with the Fox's Mercantile type before. Born antagonists. This is the type of person who dares not go to certain bars because he might not make it out alive with his mouth. And he knows it and saves up all his energy for social media on the internet. He thinks being more of an asshole makes him right or proves his point. Of course neither is true.   So how did YOU like my jew joke with the jewness surgically removed ? I laughed like all hell the first time I heard that one. I got another one but I don't remember well enough and don't have it on drive, but there is no removing the jewness out if it, amma see if I can find it...   Can't find it, it is really fucking good. It's about a jewish Woman who wants to take the kids over to Grandma's to go out on a date. It is hilarious, nothing she can say is right with Ma. Next time I find it it shall become a TXT file.   But what Fox's Mercantile does not understand is like a polish joke doesn't bother me. The flush the punchbowl one is offensive but mainly because it is so fucking stupid.   But he sees bigotry any time a race is mentioned. I got no problem with the people, it is the government that does the wrong. Well they elected the motherfuckers but you know, look at some of the choices that have been presented to us here. Like us, they may have been voting against someone they saw as worse.   Personally I think we need more race jokes. Include everyone. Boy the English seem like one hell of a target huh.   Russians are too easy.   Cure for measles - vodka. Cure for AIDS -- vodka. Broken leg ? - vodka.   And you can't because someone will call it "racist". That means nothing, what does is bigotry. I think we should pick on everyone, spread it around.   So we got Fox's Mercantile who found offense. Is he a jew ?   I have noticed something in life. You got the Cleveland Indians baseball team and someone was bitching about the name. They were not Indians. The Washington Redskins, the people bitching about that are not Native Americans. They are average White people with White guilty bending over backwards to hide the racism inherent in all of us over 40. With all of our intellect, and your IQ is probably near Einstein level, and actually so is mine but I do not have the knowledge to fill it, in the end we are still animals. We are pack animals. We want to be in groups of our own kind.   But Fox's Mercantile sticking up for you when I made that joke, why ? Did he think you were unable to speak for yourself ? And that is the most insulting fucking thing in the world.   Like people who want affirmative action for Blacks. They are insulting Blacks by assuming they need it. They are just fine and competing in the job market as well as anyone else.   They don't need help. And if you have two guys who have to carry boxes of rocks up a hill all day, if one had to carry 100 pounds and the other one only 50, who will come home stronger ?   Black Parents of the successful ones, what did they say ? "You are Black, that means you have to try twice as hard to make it, but when you do you can look any Man in the eye and have pride".   If you are jewish, not fitting the stereotype of course from what I have seen, you had some advantage. For one I bet you knew how to read and write and do basic addition and subtraction before you ever went to kindergarten. They always read to me, a little before 4 it was alphabet time. Know what helped with the math ? Clocks. Not digital, round clocks. "Now count by fives". They got me a magazine called highlights. And at six, an encyclopedia, one volume a month which I read furiously.   Whatever happens Man, I will pick on you and you can pick on me. We'll leave taking offense to the peanut gallery. Sound good ?

etpm@whidbey.com: Aug 10 10:00AM -0700 On Sun, 09 Aug 2020 18:00:26 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:   >I use Visual GPS View ($5) and Visual GPS Legacy (free), which will >both generate a location plot, which you can then eyeball for a more >accurate position. Thanks for all the great info Jeff. This surveying I want to do is not for legal reasons, mainly to just make sure I know where some of the property line probably is and where a corner marker should be. I have seen the corner marker but it may now be under a fallen tree. A big hemlock that tipped over, as they tend to do, and the marker is, I think, under the root mass or under the trunk right where it is the largest, next to the root mass. I do have one thing in my favor, and that is a monument at the end of my road that marks one corner of my property. So I could do as you say and check its location with my GPS. Then I will know how far off my measurement is after doing as you suggest. But only at that one place. Eric

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 10 10:42AM -0700 >A big hemlock that tipped over, as they tend to do, and the marker is, >I think, under the root mass or under the trunk right where it is the >largest, next to the root mass.   In this area, as soon as the surveyors are done, the locals like to move the markers to a location that favors their property. Two of my neighbors were having a dispute over a lot line adjustment. They paid a professional surveyor to survey the property. I was home at the time and watched them work. I then photographed the location of all the markers because two of them were one side of my property. Two days later, the markers had all moved. I'll spare you the rest of the fiasco. At one point, I used a smartphone and Mobile Topographer Free to demonstrate that the markers had been moved, which mostly solved the problem.   >say and check its location with my GPS. Then I will know how far off >my measurement is after doing as you suggest. But only at that one >place.   You need at least two benchmarks to establish a point. Even if you use a GPS, you will still need to account for ground movement using the markers. In 1989, we had an earthquake, which moved things. <https://www.conservation.ca.gov/cgs/earthquakes/loma-prieta> The Pacific plate moved 6.2 feet to the northwest and 4.3 feet upward over the North American plate during Loma Prieta. Land west of the fault has been moving to the northwest relative to land on the east at an average rate of 2 inches per year for millions of year.   Since the GPS satellites did NOT move during the earthquake, a 6 ft error makes surveying a bit of a challenge. The local benchmarks were installed when the area was first subdivided into vacation tent sites in about 1926. That would be about a 320 ft discrepancy between the current GPS location and the 1926 survey marker. I somewhat verified this about 5 years ago when I found a 200 ft discrepancy, but have never bothered to ask the county how they handle such things. Since most everything on the ground moves together, my guess(tm) is that the county uses the surveyed benchmarks, and NOT the GPS location. Depending on the age of your monument, you may have the same problem. Ask your county how they handle ground movement.   This might help <https://gis.santacruzcounty.us/DPWScans/recordmaps/100M39.pdf> It's a 2001 survey of the property across the road from my house. Note the copious use of found markers on the map as the "basis for bearings". My guess(tm) is that they're trying to reconcile their positions with that of the original 1926 sub-division map: <https://gis.santacruzcounty.us/DPWScans/recordmaps/024M02.pdf> without ever referring to GPS derived positions. If true, that will make using GPS locations rather difficult. You will need two or more monuments or benchmarks to adjust the property marker locations. The 2001 survey above used 7 markers.   Good luck with the project.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

etpm@whidbey.com: Aug 10 10:56AM -0700 On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:42:17 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:   >monuments or benchmarks to adjust the property marker locations. The >2001 survey above used 7 markers.   >Good luck with the project. Yeah, I didn't consider the monument moving. I live practically on top of the South Whidbey Fault and there is motion associated with both the fault and the whole region. The plate Whidbey is on is rotating clockwise and just a few miles from me the island is moving a couple millimeters per year. Thanks Again, Eric

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 10 11:48AM -0700 >the fault and the whole region. The plate Whidbey is on is rotating >clockwise and just a few miles from me the island is moving a couple >millimeters per year.   Look for a "GPS Control Points" map on your county GIS web page or map source. Here's mine from 1994: <https://gis.santacruzcounty.us/DPWScans/recordmaps/087M48.pdf> The notes under "Basis of Bearing" explains how the map works. However, I barely understand the terminology and need to ask for help before I can probably decode it. Anyway, you should have something similar available. If you can find two or more such markers, you should be able to orient your position plot to the map and adjust the GPS locations.   Just to make things difficult, the above GPS Control Points map used NAD83, while the GPS standard is WGS84. Fortunately, these are within 1 meter of each other in most of the USA, so I can ignore it for now and use an online converter later: <https://geodesy.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/HTDP/htdp.prl?f1=4&f2=1>     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 10 02:36PM -0700 >Property is expensive, that would be considered grand theft. >KenW   Talk to your insurance agent to see if you're covered if your property (land, not personal property) "moves" or "disappears". That's a very real problem in the hills and mountains. When I asked, my house is covered if it disappears, but the property is not covered. Notice that even earthquake insurance does not cover disappearing property: <http://www.insurance.ca.gov/01-consumers/105-type/95-guides/03-res/eq-ins.cfm> Earthquake insurance covers some of the losses and damage that earthquakes can cause to your home, belongings, and other buildings on your property.   Incidentally, if I use the lat/long from the original 1926 survey, my property overlaps a major part of my neighbors property across the road including the house. Of course, the back side of my house would be owned by the neighbors behind me. I mentioned this to the neighbors when was initially doing my surveying but forgot to mention that I was joking. The neighbors wife almost fainted.   Living on a hillside also has its entertainment value. It seems that the road has moved about a few feet horizontally in Google Maps. The problem is that every winter, the hillside slips an inch or two down the hill, taking the road with it. A landslide into the road on the uphill side of the road, and a landslide causing the edge of the road to crumble on the downhill side of the road. We dig out the dirt from the uphill side, and dump it on the downhill side. From above, it looks like the road is moving.     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Aug 10 05:59PM -0400 In article <aae3jfti4blr3223qfmlj3rfa14jkc1cp9@4ax.com>, jeffl@cruzio.com says... > to crumble on the downhill side of the road. We dig out the dirt from > the uphill side, and dump it on the downhill side. From above, it > looks like the road is moving.   I do not recall all the details from talking to a friend that has his surveyers license. From what I geather it used to be you drug a chain across the ground to get the footage. Now is is a streight shot. Being that if you have land on a very steep hill at one time you might have 100 feet of property,but now it may only be listed as 75 feet, even if nothing is changed.

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Aug 10 03:22PM -0700 On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 17:59:58 -0400, Ralph Mowery >that if you have land on a very steep hill at one time you might have >100 feet of property,but now it may only be listed as 75 feet, even if >nothing is changed.   Looking at the 1926 county map at: <https://gis.santacruzcounty.us/DPWScans/recordmaps/024M02.pdf> I'm in section 18 on lots 20 and 21. Combined, these are listed on the map as approximately 50 x 87 ft or 4350 sq-ft. The 87 ft part is on the slope.   Looking at the current data from the county GIS site, the parcel size for tax purposes shows 4225 sq-ft. Since the house is on an approximately 45 degree slope, the 87 ft boundary line would need to be about 123 ft if measured with a chain along the ground. Therefore, it seems that the local boundaries are measured horizontally since at least 1926. I have no clue why my property shrank 125 square feet in the last 94 years. Probably termites.       -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Aug 10 07:36PM -0500 > Thanks for all the great info Jeff. This surveying I want to do is > not for legal reasons, mainly to just make sure I know where some of > the property line probably is and where a corner marker should be. Go to the county recorder of deeds office and ask to see your plat book. It will be greek to most people, but should have a definition of the property boundary relative to other properties. With a little work, you may be able to figure out how it abuts other lots.   If you have a sensitive compass, you can slowly sweep it over the suspected corners and see if you can get the needle to spin. The surveyors drove iron pipes with magnets in them at the corners of the lot. If you have a metal detector, that can be used to home in on likely objects, then check them for magnets with the compass.   Jon

Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Aug 10 07:39PM -0500 Jeff Liebermann wrote:     > fiasco. At one point, I used a smartphone and Mobile Topographer Free > to demonstrate that the markers had been moved, which mostly solved > the problem. In most states, tampering with a survey marker is a felony. Not the little sticks with the dayglo tape on them, but the buried iron pipes with magnets. If you called the surveyors, they'd at least know who to call to report it. They would not be happy, as moving these markers complicates their work the next time they come out to survey.   Jon

etpm@whidbey.com: Aug 10 09:47AM -0700 On Sun, 9 Aug 2020 18:26:52 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"   >Peter WIeck >Melrose Park, PA   >https://www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.html?material=copper&wiresize=1.296&voltage=240&phase=ac&noofconductor=1&distance=400&distanceunit=feet&eres=8&x=68&y=10 Pete-I already have the wire in the ground. It is sized correctly for the length of the runs. I am not going to dig more ditches. And what is wrong with using the existing switch to control a relay instead of the pump directly? Would it be dangerous? Not meet code? Would a different relay be better? Eric

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Aug 10 10:01AM -0700 The below was in the can when your next message came through. There are any number of bad reasons to do it the way you suggest. Relays have their issues, and they tend to fail at the worst possible time under the worst possible conditions. I understand that you are not in downtown Seattle, nor even close to it, so surety and/or redundancy is a big concern. So, if you must use a relay-switch, use one rated for short-cycling and for heavy currents. Also known as a Definite-Purpose Contactor-Switch.   https://assets.alliedelec.com/c_scale,w_600,f_auto,q_auto,d_no_image.png/70060527_front.jpg   https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/c772b9e9-9e09-4724-aaf6-9ae10e28a64d/svn/noark-motor-controls-ex9ck30b20g7-64_1000.jpg   Of many, many options. This will let you control a 240 VAC line from a 120 VAC line. The activator coil options are many, from 12V to 240V. One bit of advice - DO NOT cheap out on these parts.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA     __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ And you do understand what happens to SS (any, actually) relays when they get stuttered power? Such as when a transfer switch kicks in and out? Nothing solid-state likes to be short-cycled unless designed specifically for that. And even mechanical relays wear heavily if short-cycled.   Repeat: Bite the proverbial bullet, run a new heavy-gauge line to the well system, and be done with it. The first time you do not have to go schlepping out to the shop in a howling windstorm you will bless that decision.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

etpm@whidbey.com: Aug 10 10:51AM -0700 On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 10:01:12 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"   >Repeat: Bite the proverbial bullet, run a new heavy-gauge line to the well system, and be done with it. The first time you do not have to go schlepping out to the shop in a howling windstorm you will bless that decision.   >Peter Wieck >Melrose Park, PA I'm not gonna cheap out on components. And I'm not gonna run 400 feet minimum of #6 wire. Nor am I gonna dig more ditches in my finished yard. I am gonna have an extra relay in the control box, just like I have an extra pressure switch at the pressure tank. Could you please explain why a relay controlled by a remote switch is a bad idea? BTW, thanks for the links. I have decided to not use solid state devices but instead will use a sealed realy. Eric

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Aug 10 11:20AM -0700 > Could you please > explain why a relay controlled by a remote switch is a bad idea? BTW, > thanks for the links.   a) Because a relay is _NOT_ typically rated for motor-start loads. b) Because a relay is not designed for the purpose you suggest. c) Because a relay does not accept abuse very well.   Whereas: a) A definite-purpose contactor _IS_ rated for whatever motor load you choose (it's only money). b) A definite-purpose contactor _IS_ designed to turn motors on and off, as needed and as often as needed. c) A definite-purpose contactor _MAY_ be designed against any number of coil voltages. d) A definite-purpose contactor _IS_ quite reliable if installed correctly. e) A definite-purpose contactor will take a great deal of abuse. In point of fact, they were developed for exactly the sort of scenario you suggest.   Again - this venue may often get used as a means to avoid the safe-and-correct solution in preference for the Kluge solution - but that does not make that solution correct, nor safe, nor reasonable.   Keep in mind that any problem with electricity, motors, and controls for same has, at some point in the last 130 years or so, been addressed and managed. Most, quite elegantly. Reinventing a simple wheel only for the sake of that reinvention is always futile, often silly, and all too often, dangerous.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

etpm@whidbey.com: Aug 10 12:22PM -0700 On Mon, 10 Aug 2020 11:20:54 -0700 (PDT), "pfjw@aol.com"   >Keep in mind that any problem with electricity, motors, and controls for same has, at some point in the last 130 years or so, been addressed and managed. Most, quite elegantly. Reinventing a simple wheel only for the sake of that reinvention is always futile, often silly, and all too often, dangerous.   >Peter Wieck >Melrose Park, PA I guess I should have said contactor, which is just a special type of relay. Eric

"pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Aug 10 01:34PM -0700 Much as a Ducati or a Triumph or a BMW is a special sort of Scooter.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

KenW <ken1943@invalid.net>: Aug 10 02:22PM -0600 Property is expensive, that would be considered grand theft.     KenW

You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this group. You can change your settings on the group membership page. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an email to sci.electronics.repair+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.