- help with circuit repair - 4 Updates
- Gas heat thermostat if no power - 4 Updates
| JB Haskins <hask0078@lormail.net>: Feb 16 11:41AM -0500 On 2/16/21 4:34 AM, Newdo wrote: > Please remember to remove the loose screw underneath the pcb > -UP Very observant! That's actually the pcb board screw and there so I don't lose it (unfortunately, I have a habit of losing screws). Luckily, the only way to power it on is by having the board re-secured with that screw so no worries. |
| Rich <rich@example.invalid>: Feb 16 05:26PM > don't lose it (unfortunately, I have a habit of losing screws). Small medicine bottles make good screw holding containers. Of course, you then have to not lose the small medicine bottle containing the screws. |
| "Peter W." <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Feb 16 10:42AM -0800 > Of course, you then have to not lose the small medicine bottle > containing the screws. https://www.amazon.com/Staineless-Magnetic-Screws-Holder-Holding/dp/B00NF0LH18 Comes in various sizes and configurations. That my bench also has a sheet-metal insert under the working surface also helps. Yes, the insert is fully insulated electrically. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| root <NoEMail@home.org>: Feb 17 04:04PM > Small medicine bottles make good screw holding containers. > Of course, you then have to not lose the small medicine bottle > containing the screws. Better to stick a refrigerator magnet to the case and put the screws on the magnet. |
| Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>: Feb 16 06:55PM > e) If it is an old octopus furnace (obsolete in the 1930s, much less > the 60s) as above, it will work as always as it does not depend on > line-level power. The gravity furnace[*] in my San Francisco house is much newer than the 1930s. From memory the nameplate is mid 1960s. I suspect -- this would fall under "happened long before I lived here" -- that the building had a gravity furnace installed when originally built (1906), or shortly thereafter, and in the 1960s someone decided to replace the furnace but didn't want to reduct, so just put in another gravity furnace. I seriously dislike it, the lack of forced air means you can't have filters, and the lack of filters means it smells of decades of accumulated dust every time it is turned on. I think we ended up using it only one or two days in the calendar year of 2020. It works, although slowly, when we do turn it on, but mostly we find other ways to keep warm. The ducts are all asbestos insulated, so tearing it out won't be fun, when the time comes. The thermostat is is one of the old mercury switch types, probably installed at about the same time. Mercury switches are fun. Elijah ------ [*] "octopus furnace" is a slangy name for "gravity furnance" |
| "Peter W." <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Feb 16 11:57AM -0800 https://www.pinterest.com/pin/195343702562355034/ I never stated nor implied that Octopus furnaces were not made after the 1930s, but that they were obsolete thereafter. :-)> And, of course, those Transite and non-woven asbestos ducts do leach out such that a blower would spread ACMs everywhere. No fun at all. We have a 4,200 s.f. center-hall colonial built in 1890, and substantially enlarged in 1928, with a gravity-designed hydronic heating system (4" ID main risers, 3" ID returns). Now it is served by a mod-con 97% efficient (by actual test) boiler. But heating the well over 300 gallons of water in the system (38 rads) is an ordeal on its own. So, we installed mini-splits last January followed by a visit from our gas/electric utility in April to see if we had diddled the meters. When they saw the equipment, they reported that all was well. Point being they heat and cool with a SEER of 29+. We run the house at a constant 60F for heating, and the six rooms that we use the most have the splits in them. Our combined gas and electric bills are less than $300 per month, on average at $0.14 per KWH, and $0.77 per therm. We use gas for cooking and hot water as well (indirect water heater from the boiler). I suspect that mini-splits in your case could solve the entire heating/cooling issue for less than the cost for the removal of the boiler. Just mothball it and seal the ducts. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| Eli the Bearded <*@eli.users.panix.com>: Feb 16 09:15PM > I never stated nor implied that Octopus furnaces were not made after > the 1930s, but that they were obsolete thereafter. :-)> Noted, but I wanted to drive the point home. > And, of course, those Transite and non-woven asbestos ducts do leach > out such that a blower would spread ACMs everywhere. No fun at all. It appears that the asbestos is on the outside of the ducts, not the inside. At least the parts I can easily see all match that. > But heating the well over 300 gallons of water in the system (38 rads) > is an ordeal on its own. What? In my mind "1 gray = 100 rads". That doesn't jibe with 300 gallons. https://i.imgur.com/aLl7SFO.jpg > suspect that mini-splits in your case could solve the entire > heating/cooling issue for less than the cost for the removal of the > boiler. We have used electric space heaters on maybe five days in the last three months, and have been averaging $160, just over half of that, per month. These have been some of the more expensive PG&E bills we've seen, too. The cost of inaction is much less than the cost of action. > Just mothball it and seal the ducts. The first big win for removal would be all of the usable space that can be reclaimed from the furnace and ducting. (Ducts in the walls are not counted here as "usable space". This thing occupies a good percentage of the garage / basement space.) The second big win would be "not worrying about the asbestos exposure risk" in the garage / basement. Elijah ------ that bill includes electric car charging, too |
| "Peter W." <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Feb 17 04:33AM -0800 38 radiators, average 1.8 gallons each = 68 gallons 0.652 gallons per foot of 4" pipe. 120 feet = 78.2 gallons 0.37 gallons per foot of 3" pipe. 120 feet = 44.4 gallons 0.135 gallons per foot of 1" pipe 400 feet = 54 gallons 0.0229 gallons per foot 3/4" pipe 500 feet = 11.5 gallons Boiler Content, 2 gallons = 2 gallons Comes to 258 gallons of water in the visible piping, 8 pairs of risers and the boiler itself. It does not count the expansion tank, piping in the crawl-spaces, or the piping around the boiler and indirect water heater. Just the original iron pipe. It is a 3-zone, 2-pipe system with 3 circulators. So, I think I am pretty safe using 300 gallons as a round number. Our boiler is a WM Ultra 230,000 BTU mod-con that replaced the 400,000 BTU steel oil-burner that was in place when we bought the house in 2008. The math was easy. Average 6 hours of operation per day for 120 days as the base-line. And based on use-figures supplied by the realtor. Oil at $2.50 gallon (130,000 BTU per gallon). Natural gas at $0.77 per therm (100,000 BTU). Oil Boiler at 55% efficiency (typical of a 1960s steel boiler measuring 6 feet cubic - really). Gas boiler at 95% efficiency (published specifications) (6 x 400,000)/130,000 = gallons per day. 18.4 gallons per day. 120 x 18.4 = 2,215 gallons per season - this is a backwards calculation from the supplied use figures. 288,000,000 BTUs expended 158,400,000 BTUs delivered $5,537.50 expended on fuel. For gas (NOTE: Work with the DELIVERED BTUs, not the hours of operation!): 158,400,000/0.95 = 166,736,842 BTUs to be expended. Comes to 1,668 therms Comes to $1,283.80 expended on fuel. Comes to a seasonal savings of $4,254 As I did 60% of the work myself, using a registered master plumber and contractor to do the demolition and final inspections, the entire installation paid for itself in three (3) seasons. That includes the cost of replacing 17 radiators and three pairs of risers - the house sat empty for two years (REO) and the system was left full. I did enjoy the reference to the Simpsons - so the joke was not lost on me. "The coldest winter I ever saw was the summer I spent in San Francisco." - Mark Twain Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
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