- Faraday bags and other scarey things - 22 Updates
- Telescopic aerial repair - 1 Update
- Wired, outdoor PC cameras? - 2 Updates
| micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>: Dec 28 04:03PM -0500 https://www.moneyshake.com/car-finance-guides/road-safety/how-to-protect-keyless-entry-cars Unlike standard cars where access without raising the alarm requires the key, keyless entry models can be 'tricked' into thinking a key is present through a transmitter and receiver device. If your car's fob isn't stored safely, then it can be very easy for a pair of opportune thieves to pick up the key's radio frequency signal, without having to break into your house. Luckily, however, there are many ways in which you can make it extremely difficult for them to do this and protect your motor. ---- Except, how isthere any signal to pick up unless you are in your home pressing the Unlock button on the fob at the same time the thief drives by? I myself dont' bother pressing fob buttons once I've left the car, until I want to drive away the next day. https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/relay-devices-being-used-to-steal-locked-cars/ |
| chop <chop654@gmail.com>: Dec 29 08:26AM +1100 > If your car's fob isn't stored safely, then it can be very easy for a > pair of opportune thieves to pick up the key's radio frequency signal, > without having to break into your house. Bullshit. > ---- Except, how isthere any signal to pick up unless you are in your > home pressing the Unlock button on the fob at the same time the thief > drives by? Precisely. |
| Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx>: Dec 28 05:01PM -0500 On 12/28/2022 4:03 PM, micky wrote: > drives by? I myself dont' bother pressing fob buttons once I've left > the car, until I want to drive away the next day. > https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/relay-devices-being-used-to-steal-locked-cars/ There is a constant signal on some. I don't press any button to drive my car, just have the fob in my pocket. The car knows when I'm getting close and if locked turns a light on the mirrors. I get in the cat and push the start button in the car. There is a limited distance of a few feet though. My fob is far enough from the car it cannot be recognized. Pressing the lock or unlock buttons works at a much greater distance |
| Bob F <bobnospam@gmail.com>: Dec 28 02:04PM -0800 On 12/28/2022 1:03 PM, micky wrote: > drives by? I myself dont' bother pressing fob buttons once I've left > the car, until I want to drive away the next day. > https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/relay-devices-being-used-to-steal-locked-cars/ "With keyless entry, vehicle access usually relies on a key fob. Typically, the fob contains a chip that identifies radio signals sent by your vehicle. These signals are only able to travel for a few feet. As you enter or exit the car, the vehicle sends a radio signal to the key fob. The fob responds by relaying its code to the vehicle. The vehicle recognizes this code and unlocks or locks the car doors. However, keyless entry isn't always fob-based. A handful of carmakers—like Tesla and Hyundai—offer a type of keyless entry that allows you to lock and unlock your car using an app on your smartphone. These are known as digital keys or phone-as-a-key apps. Some of these systems use your phone to send a signal directly with your car, just like a key fob does. Others use the internet to transmit data between your car and your phone." |
| Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx>: Dec 28 05:06PM -0500 On 12/28/2022 4:26 PM, chop wrote: >> home pressing the Unlock button on the fob at the same time the thief >> drives by? > Precisely. Nope. My car even has Smart Trunk (optional setting). If the car is locked and I approach it from the rear, when about three feet away it knows I'm there and opens the trunk for me. Nice when hands are full. There is a very limited distance though. No buttons need be pressed, the car senses the proximity of the fob. |
| Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@koi8.net>: Dec 28 10:08PM > drives by? I myself dont' bother pressing fob buttons once I've left > the car, until I want to drive away the next day. > https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/relay-devices-being-used-to-steal-locked-cars/ When I'm close to my Lexus LS460L with keyfob in my pocket it greets me with turning on the lights under rearview mirrors. Then, I pull the door handle and it opens the door and unfolds the rearview mirrors. Then, I step on the brake pedal and push the car's (not keyfob) START button and it starts up. Also, when I'm touching a button on the trunk with my keyfob in my pocket it opens the trunk. None of that happens when I have that keyfob in a copper mesh Faraday bag/protector no matter how close I am to my car. I don't remember pushing ANY keyfob button EVER for as long as I own that car. I'm locking it when leaving by pressing a button on any door handle. It locks all doors, folds the mirrors and activates security system when a button on any door handle is pressed when keyfob is nearby and not in Faraday bag. Won't do it if the keyfob is inside the car. And this is true for ALL relatively modern cars with that START button. They are ALL prone to stealing by an amplifier/receiver if keyfob is not put in a Faraday bag. There was a video from security camera on our local Nextdoor showing how a top-of-the-line Mercedes-Benz was stolen from our neighbor's driveway in less than a minute, from a car stopping by and a perp going out of that car to the moment he drove away in that Mercedes. Please, don't spread that BS about no signal unless a keyfob button is pressed. It is simply false. --- ****************************************************************** * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ****************************************************************** |
| Peeler <trolltrap@valid.invalid>: Dec 28 11:11PM +0100 "Rod Speed is an entirely modern phenomenon. Essentially, Rod Speed is an insecure and worthless individual who has discovered he can enhance his own self-esteem in his own eyes by playing "the big, hard man" on the InterNet." https://www.pcreview.co.uk/threads/rod-speed-faq.2973853/ -- David Plowman about senile Rodent Speed's trolling: "Wodney is doing a lot of morphing these days. Must be even more desperate than usual for attention." MID: <59a60da1d9dave@davenoise.co.uk> |
| TTman <kraken.sankey@gmail.com>: Dec 28 10:13PM > * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * > * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * > ****************************************************************** Anyone with more than a couple of brain cells knows about keys in a faraday cage.And probably all in this group... -- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. www.avast.com |
| micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>: Dec 28 05:19PM -0500 In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 28 Dec 2022 17:06:20 -0500, Ed Pawlowski >knows I'm there and opens the trunk for me. Nice when hands are full. >There is a very limited distance though. No buttons need be pressed, >the car senses the proximity of the fob. The guy in NextDoor who raised t his subject replied to me: "No. Push button cars are in constant communication with the key fob when close enough for signal. Once the signal is amplified, the device they are using can unlock the car. Once inside, they can insert another device into the ODB port which reprograms the key encryption to whatever they like." He envisions being close enough to the fob when the fob is in the house but near the door and everyone is asleep, then unlocking and stealing the whole car. Possible? |
| micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>: Dec 28 05:27PM -0500 In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 28 Dec 2022 22:08:22 -0000 (UTC), Sergey >of that car to the moment he drove away in that Mercedes. >Please, don't spread that BS about no signal unless a keyfob button is >pressed. It is simply false. Well, it's not *simply* false. it's false in the case of cars some, like the guy on NextDoor, describe cryptically as "pushbutton" cars. My car's fob and the car have lots of pushbuttons too. Last Feb to June I rented a car that was only a year old and I've already forgotten how unlocking the door worked, but it had a little add-on keypad and 4 numbers had to be entered to start the car. So that would defeat this method of stealing cars. But I know American cars, or non-rental cars, don't have such things. It seems almost like it's worth not buying a car like this. Even if you live in the Yukon, on a farm 20 miles from town, where thieves never go, if you go to town and don't use the Faraday bag or something, and someone likes the car, can't he see the owner get out of it, follow him and amplify the signal and while the owner is walking one way, walk the other and steal the car? |
| chop <chop654@gmail.com>: Dec 29 09:36AM +1100 >> the car, until I want to drive away the next day. >> https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/relay-devices-being-used-to-steal-locked-cars/ > There is a constant signal on some. Don't buy that. The battery wouldn't last very long if that was the case. > I don't press any button to drive my car, just have the fob in my > pocket. That doesn't mean that there is a constant signal. |
| chop <chop654@gmail.com>: Dec 29 09:43AM +1100 > button cars are in constant communication with the key fob when close > enough for signal. Once the signal is amplified, the device they are > using can unlock the car. Not with the best rolling code systems. > Once inside, they can insert another device > into the ODB port which reprograms the key encryption to whatever they > like." That's wrong too. > He envisions being close enough to the fob when the fob is in the house > but near the door and everyone is asleep, then unlocking and stealing > the whole car. Possible? Nope, not with the best rolling code systems. |
| chop <chop654@gmail.com>: Dec 29 09:54AM +1100 > someone likes the car, can't he see the owner get out of it, follow him > and amplify the signal and while the owner is walking one way, walk the > other and steal the car? Nope, not with the best keyless systems. |
| John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com>: Dec 28 03:32PM -0800 On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 22:08:22 -0000 (UTC), Sergey Kubushyn >* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * >* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * >****************************************************************** When we get home, our keys go in a Danish Butter Cookie can. Those are pretty good shields. https://www.dropbox.com/s/30c6aesh4tzjg56/Z496_Can.jpg?raw=1 https://www.dropbox.com/s/cuxn5r7yzenb8m2/Z496_Out.jpg?raw=1 |
| scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal): Dec 28 11:47PM >home pressing the Unlock button on the fob at the same time the thief >drives by? I myself dont' bother pressing fob buttons once I've left >the car, until I want to drive away the next day. The key fob and the vehicle routinely "ping" each other when in range. This is what allows mere possession of the key to allow one to unlock the trunk, or fuel filler cover without any button push on the remote. The evesdropper can simply "overhear" the ping and use the data to capture the necessary bits of the protocol. |
| Sergey Kubushyn <ksi@koi8.net>: Dec 29 12:20AM > pretty good shields. > https://www.dropbox.com/s/30c6aesh4tzjg56/Z496_Can.jpg?raw=1 > https://www.dropbox.com/s/cuxn5r7yzenb8m2/Z496_Out.jpg?raw=1 Yep. But those bags have their use too -- you car can be stolen when you e.g. park it at a grocery store and come inside. The good practice is to put the keyfob in a Faraday cage protection bag every time you leave it. Those are not big boxes and easily fit in one's pocket. Something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Protector-Blocking-Double-Layers-Shielding-Anti-Theft/dp/B0B4DCLY87 --- ****************************************************************** * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * ****************************************************************** |
| Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net>: Dec 28 07:34PM -0500 Sergey Kubushyn wrote: > * KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. * > * Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. * > ****************************************************************** Or you could just drive a car with an actual key, like my 2012 Mustang convertible. ;) Cheers Phil Hobbs (And yes, it's pointless locking a convertible--if only I could convince my insurance company.) ;) -- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 http://electrooptical.net http://hobbs-eo.com |
| Ed Pawlowski <esp@snet.xxx>: Dec 28 07:43PM -0500 On 12/28/2022 5:36 PM, chop wrote: > Don't buy that. The battery wouldn't last very long if that was the case. >> I don't press any button to drive my car, just have the fob in my pocket. > That doesn't mean that there is a constant signal. What then? it is constantly recognizable by the car, that is what matters. |
| John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com>: Dec 28 05:02PM -0800 On Thu, 29 Dec 2022 00:20:05 -0000 (UTC), Sergey Kubushyn >e.g. park it at a grocery store and come inside. The good practice is to put >the keyfob in a Faraday cage protection bag every time you leave it. Those >are not big boxes and easily fit in one's pocket. Something like this: We have old fashioned cars with RF fobs that transmit when the button is pushed. I don't think the RF relay cheat works with them. |
| chop <chop654@gmail.com>: Dec 29 01:52PM +1100 On Thu, 29 Dec 2022 10:47:07 +1100, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote: > any button push on the remote. > The evesdropper can simply "overhear" the ping and use the data > to capture the necessary bits of the protocol. Not with a rolling code system. |
| chop <chop654@gmail.com>: Dec 29 01:56PM +1100 >> That doesn't mean that there is a constant signal. > What then? it is constantly recognizable by the car, that is what > matters. What matters is that with a rolling code system, it is pointless listening to the traffic and repeating it try to fool the car and steal it. |
| chop <chop654@gmail.com>: Dec 29 02:00PM +1100 On Thu, 29 Dec 2022 12:02:20 +1100, John Larkin >> are not big boxes and easily fit in one's pocket. Something like this: > We have old fashioned cars with RF fobs that transmit when the button > is pushed. I don't think the RF relay cheat works with them. I know that it doesn't. And even recording what happens when the owner locks the car doesn't work with a rolling code system. |
| ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net>: Dec 28 06:23PM -0500 On 12/28/2022 10:56 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote: > enough. It just remained to screw the finial back on, with a dab of > varnish in its threads. > Job done - cost nil. Neat! Congratulations on the "impossible" repair. I suppose many of us have kinked telescoping antennas. I never heard of one being repaired before - replaced yes, un-kinked no. Thanks for posting that. :-) Ed |
| Andrew Smallshaw <andrews@sdf.org>: Dec 28 05:20PM > Most plugs are for 'solid' cable, to repair patch cables you need to get the > type of plugs for 'stranded' cable, I think there is also a type of plug that > copes with both ... Most _plugs_ are for stranded cable, they are intended for loose flexes (patch cables) between equipment and between equipment and fixed wiring (i.e. wall socket or patch panel). Most _sockets_ are for solid cable, intending for the fixed wiring through ducts, walls, ceiling etc where the flexibility of stranded cable isn't needed. Solid cable is simply a bit too stiff for patch cables, any bending forces translate through to the contact (even through the strain relief) and I've found they work loose in short order. More common is sockets that can accept either solid or stranded cable. Solid is to be preferred for fixed wiring that is expected to make up the bulk of a run, since it has slightly lower losses than stranded, although in my home network I use stranded exclusively. If I had installed it all in one go I would probably have bought a 100m or 305m reel of solid, but the fixed wiring has gone in over time so it's a lower immediate cost to buy a 10, 20 or 30m patch lead and lop the ends off for the bare cable. But then the longest run in my home is 28m, and even that follows a very circuitous route, well short of the 100m limit so a little additional loss is acceptable. Also while I'm posting I'll just pick up a terminological note elsethread. It's a crossed or crossover cable in a networking context, never rolled or rollover. The latter is generally construed to mean a cable wired 1-8, 2-7 etc. Used a lot in serial (RS232) over twisted pair which these days is something of a niche thing in a home environment, but still very widespread in commercial and industrial settings. -- Andrew Smallshaw andrews@sdf.org |
| Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>: Dec 28 06:24PM Andrew Smallshaw wrote: > Most _plugs_ are for stranded cable [...] Most _sockets_ > are for solid cable You're quite right, not sure what I was thinking ... |
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