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Today's topics:
* Today's Lead Free Crap Solder Stories ... - 11 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/161210aa2275c858?hl=en
* opposite of an RF Modulator? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8b592fa97d607ae0?hl=en
* HELP:Measuring refresh rate of PCBs - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/786bc4e68b01617e?hl=en
* ? on NTE56041 for touch-on lamp - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d2558d31335920e5?hl=en
* OT: card storage - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1faee31fa35fe26a?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today's Lead Free Crap Solder Stories ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/161210aa2275c858?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 5:37 pm
From: David Nebenzahl
On 5/22/2010 4:22 PM Jim Yanik spake thus:
> Smitty Two <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in news:prestwhich-
> 6B93A1.15420722052010@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com:
>
>> In article <4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
>> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBill47@yahoo.com spake thus:
>>>
>>> > On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>>> > <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> >> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
>>> >> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
>>> >> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
>>> >> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The
>>> >> joint looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had
>>> >> not whetted the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take
>>> >> two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
>>> >> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
>>> >> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
>>> >> lead-free with a passion.
>>> >>
>>> >> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
>>> >> ...
>>> >
>>> > There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
>>> > consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
>>> > ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
>>> > other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>>>
>>> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap
>>> end up?
>>>
>>> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
>>> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
>>> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other
>>> things you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything
>>> else there eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).
>>
>> AIUI, 99.9% of the lead in consumer electronics was in CRTs. Isn't there
>> something like a couple of pounds of the stuff in there? Now that we've
>> switched to LCDs, that problem has gone away. The amount of lead in a
>> circuit board is practically negligible.
>
> Yes,and how much actually leaches out from PCBs?
Lots. Enough to do real damage. Hence the regulations.
> I suspect lead tire-balance weights contribute far more lead to the
> environment.(they -have- switched to no-lead alloys)
> I find them all the time when I'm out on my bicycle.
> I pick them up and melt them into ingots.
Hey, I do that too! It's almost a reflex with me. Someday someone's
gonna see me stuffing a big ol' wheel weight into my pocket and go
"WTF?????".
I've actually taken a lot of lead out of the environment this way.
Pounds and pounds of it.
--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)
== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 5:38 pm
From: David Nebenzahl
On 5/22/2010 3:42 PM Smitty Two spake thus:
> In article <4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>
>> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBill47@yahoo.com spake thus:
>>
>> > On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>> > <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
>> >> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
>> >> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
>> >> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The
>> >> joint looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had
>> >> not whetted the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take
>> >> two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
>> >> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
>> >> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
>> >> lead-free with a passion.
>> >>
>> >> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
>> >> ...
>> >
>> > There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
>> > consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
>> > ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
>> > other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>>
>> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap
>> end up?
>>
>> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
>> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
>> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other
>> things you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything
>> else there eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).
>
> AIUI, 99.9% of the lead in consumer electronics was in CRTs. Isn't there
> something like a couple of pounds of the stuff in there? Now that we've
> switched to LCDs, that problem has gone away. The amount of lead in a
> circuit board is practically negligible.
You could have said the same thing about leaded gasoline way back when.
The amount of lead in a tankful of tetraethyl lead gasoline is
practically negligible. But you know what? it all adds up. That's why it
was banned.
--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)
== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 5:40 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"
<snip>
> There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
> consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
> ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
> other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>
> PlainBill
Yes, I would absolutely agree with those sentiments.
Arfa
== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 5:42 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"
"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBill47@yahoo.com spake thus:
>
>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
>>> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
>>> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
>>> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The joint
>>> looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had not whetted
>>> the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take two hours to go
>>> bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
>>> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
>>> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
>>> lead-free with a passion.
>>>
>>> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
>>> ...
>>
>> There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
>> consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
>> ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
>> other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>
> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap end
> up?
>
> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other things
> you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything else there
> eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).
>
>
Even if it does end up in landfill, how does the lead get back out of the
components and solder, into the environment. Hint, it doesn't ...
Arfa
== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:05 pm
From: David Nebenzahl
On 5/22/2010 5:42 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> news:4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBill47@yahoo.com spake thus:
>>
>>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>>> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>>>> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
>>>> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
>>>> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
>>>> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The joint
>>>> looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had not whetted
>>>> the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take two hours to go
>>>> bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
>>>> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
>>>> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
>>>> lead-free with a passion.
>>>>
>>>> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
>>>> ...
>>>
>>> There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
>>> consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
>>> ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
>>> other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>>
>> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap end
>> up?
>>
>> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
>> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
>> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other things
>> you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything else there
>> eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).
>
> Even if it does end up in landfill, how does the lead get back out of the
> components and solder, into the environment. Hint, it doesn't ...
How the hell can you say that with such cocksure certainty?
Look; we *know* that all kinds of things can leach out of landfills.
There's all kinds of shit in there besides PC boards, enough compounds
to make a chemical brew capable of leaching lead (and other metals) into
the surrounding area.
Yeah, sure: "they"--you know, the little elves that watch over us
all--say they make sure to seal the landfill, cap it with impervious
material, keep anything from leaching out. Do you believe them? I sure
don't.
I think this is just an irresponsible attitude on your part and on
others here. I *totally* agree with your other complaints about
lead-free solder: it's clearly a pain in the ass. But to listen to you
and others here go on about it, you'd think these rules were simply
capricious actions of some pinheaded Eurocrats who don't know what the
hell they're talking about. I think you're wrong about that.
And I don't want to live in an environment full of lead, thank you very
much.
--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)
== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 7:44 pm
From: "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net"
On May 22, 8:05 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> On 5/22/2010 5:42 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> >news:4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> >> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBil...@yahoo.com spake thus:
>
> >>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> >>> <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >> [...]
>
> >>>> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
> >>>> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
> >>>> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
> >>>> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The joint
> >>>> looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had not whetted
> >>>> the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take two hours to go
> >>>> bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
> >>>> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
> >>>> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
> >>>> lead-free with a passion.
>
> >>>> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
> >>>> ...
>
> >>> There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
> >>> consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
> >>> ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
> >>> other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>
> >> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap end
> >> up?
>
> >> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
> >> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
> >> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other things
> >> you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything else there
> >> eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).
>
> > Even if it does end up in landfill, how does the lead get back out of the
> > components and solder, into the environment. Hint, it doesn't ...
>
> How the hell can you say that with such cocksure certainty?
>
> Look; we *know* that all kinds of things can leach out of landfills.
> There's all kinds of shit in there besides PC boards, enough compounds
> to make a chemical brew capable of leaching lead (and other metals) into
> the surrounding area.
>
> Yeah, sure: "they"--you know, the little elves that watch over us
> all--say they make sure to seal the landfill, cap it with impervious
> material, keep anything from leaching out. Do you believe them? I sure
> don't.
>
> I think this is just an irresponsible attitude on your part and on
> others here. I *totally* agree with your other complaints about
> lead-free solder: it's clearly a pain in the ass. But to listen to you
> and others here go on about it, you'd think these rules were simply
> capricious actions of some pinheaded Eurocrats who don't know what the
> hell they're talking about. I think you're wrong about that.
>
> And I don't want to live in an environment full of lead, thank you very
> much.
>
> --
> The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
> with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
>
> - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
But does the lead in the glass of crt's leach out, I don't think so.
== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 7:57 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"
Ecoholics.
The feeling of power must feel great.
What's taking place today would likely not have needed to happen if anyone
had been willing to invest in proper technologies for recycling.
During times of prosperity (or non-crisis), the majority of humans ignore
that their wasteful habits will have consequences.
Would cost effective reclamation of metals from circuit boards been so
difficult or costly to just ignore it?
Yep, it costs too much today to do anything about it.
I'm sure there were many earlier believers in recycling before the 1960s,
but it was easier to ignore the value of recycling. Even now the half-assed
measures to collect and recycle are very inefficient.
Was legislation needed to get folks to separate cans from household waste?
Some places have penalties/fines for finding recycleable materials in a
household's trash cans.. yep, trashcan cops, probably with a good salary and
benefits.
Maybe it's time that commercial and industrial dumpsters were
inspected/monitored.
Waste has been a major issue for a very long time, but no one has wanted to
invest in technologies to efficiently recycle reuseable materials.
Eeeewww, it's garbage.
So it seems that were faced with polluting the small amounts of clean water
left on the planet. But water can be treated.. astronauts drink their own
urine, after all.
But then, they're not eating nicad batteries or other deadly chemicals.
We've all seen what takes place for control over oil, just wait and see the
huge shitstorm when the control of clean water becomes a major issue (it's
already started).
Landfill liners are secure, the water is clean, and a few other claims that
are up the top of the list since one was taken off; there's no link between
tobacco and cancer.
--
Cheers,
WB
.............
"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4bf87dd4$0$2359$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> Look; we *know* that all kinds of things can leach out of landfills.
> There's all kinds of shit in there besides PC boards, enough compounds to
> make a chemical brew capable of leaching lead (and other metals) into the
> surrounding area.
>
> Yeah, sure: "they"--you know, the little elves that watch over us all--say
> they make sure to seal the landfill, cap it with impervious material, keep
> anything from leaching out. Do you believe them? I sure don't.
>
> I think this is just an irresponsible attitude on your part and on others
> here. I *totally* agree with your other complaints about lead-free solder:
> it's clearly a pain in the ass. But to listen to you and others here go on
> about it, you'd think these rules were simply capricious actions of some
> pinheaded Eurocrats who don't know what the hell they're talking about. I
> think you're wrong about that.
>
> And I don't want to live in an environment full of lead, thank you very
> much.
>
>
> --
> The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
> with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
>
> - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)
== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:13 pm
From: David Nebenzahl
On 5/22/2010 7:44 PM hr(bob) hofmann@att.net spake thus:
> On May 22, 8:05 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>
>> Yeah, sure: "they"--you know, the little elves that watch over us
>> all--say they make sure to seal the landfill, cap it with impervious
>> material, keep anything from leaching out. Do you believe them? I sure
>> don't.
>>
>> I think this is just an irresponsible attitude on your part and on
>> others here. I *totally* agree with your other complaints about
>> lead-free solder: it's clearly a pain in the ass. But to listen to you
>> and others here go on about it, you'd think these rules were simply
>> capricious actions of some pinheaded Eurocrats who don't know what the
>> hell they're talking about. I think you're wrong about that.
>>
>> And I don't want to live in an environment full of lead, thank you very
>> much.
>
> But does the lead in the glass of crt's leach out, I don't think so.
In my 'hood, most of the TVs and monitors that get put out on the street
end up broken. CRT smashed to pieces. The city eventually comes along
and picks them up and takes them to the dump. It's a lot easier for lead
to leach out of broken pieces of glass.
--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)
== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:44 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"
"hr(bob) hofmann@att.net" wrote:
>
> On May 22, 8:05 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> > On 5/22/2010 5:42 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
> > >news:4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> > >> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBil...@yahoo.com spake thus:
> >
> > >>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> > >>> <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> [...]
> >
> > >>>> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
> > >>>> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
> > >>>> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
> > >>>> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The joint
> > >>>> looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had not whetted
> > >>>> the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take two hours to go
> > >>>> bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
> > >>>> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
> > >>>> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
> > >>>> lead-free with a passion.
> >
> > >>>> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
> > >>>> ...
> >
> > >>> There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
> > >>> consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
> > >>> ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
> > >>> other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
> >
> > >> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap end
> > >> up?
> >
> > >> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
> > >> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
> > >> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other things
> > >> you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything else there
> > >> eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).
> >
> > > Even if it does end up in landfill, how does the lead get back out of the
> > > components and solder, into the environment. Hint, it doesn't ...
> >
> > How the hell can you say that with such cocksure certainty?
> >
> > Look; we *know* that all kinds of things can leach out of landfills.
> > There's all kinds of shit in there besides PC boards, enough compounds
> > to make a chemical brew capable of leaching lead (and other metals) into
> > the surrounding area.
> >
> > Yeah, sure: "they"--you know, the little elves that watch over us
> > all--say they make sure to seal the landfill, cap it with impervious
> > material, keep anything from leaching out. Do you believe them? I sure
> > don't.
> >
> > I think this is just an irresponsible attitude on your part and on
> > others here. I *totally* agree with your other complaints about
> > lead-free solder: it's clearly a pain in the ass. But to listen to you
> > and others here go on about it, you'd think these rules were simply
> > capricious actions of some pinheaded Eurocrats who don't know what the
> > hell they're talking about. I think you're wrong about that.
> >
> > And I don't want to live in an environment full of lead, thank you very
> > much.
> >
> > --
> > The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
> > with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
> >
> > - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> But does the lead in the glass of crt's leach out, I don't think so.
The EPA had to grind them to a fine dust, then use a strong acid to
remove some lead. Then they claimed that CRTs had 27 pounds of lead.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, May 23 2010 12:34 am
From: Sergey Kubushyn
Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net" wrote:
>>
>> On May 22, 8:05 pm, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>> > On 5/22/2010 5:42 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > "David Nebenzahl" <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>> > >news:4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>> > >> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBil...@yahoo.com spake thus:
>> >
>> > >>> On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>> > >>> <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > >> [...]
>> >
>> > >>>> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
>> > >>>> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
>> > >>>> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
>> > >>>> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The joint
>> > >>>> looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had not whetted
>> > >>>> the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take two hours to go
>> > >>>> bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
>> > >>>> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
>> > >>>> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
>> > >>>> lead-free with a passion.
>> >
>> > >>>> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
>> > >>>> ...
>> >
>> > >>> There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
>> > >>> consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
>> > >>> ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
>> > >>> other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>> >
>> > >> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap end
>> > >> up?
>> >
>> > >> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
>> > >> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
>> > >> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other things
>> > >> you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything else there
>> > >> eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).
>> >
>> > > Even if it does end up in landfill, how does the lead get back out of the
>> > > components and solder, into the environment. Hint, it doesn't ...
>> >
>> > How the hell can you say that with such cocksure certainty?
>> >
>> > Look; we *know* that all kinds of things can leach out of landfills.
>> > There's all kinds of shit in there besides PC boards, enough compounds
>> > to make a chemical brew capable of leaching lead (and other metals) into
>> > the surrounding area.
>> >
>> > Yeah, sure: "they"--you know, the little elves that watch over us
>> > all--say they make sure to seal the landfill, cap it with impervious
>> > material, keep anything from leaching out. Do you believe them? I sure
>> > don't.
>> >
>> > I think this is just an irresponsible attitude on your part and on
>> > others here. I *totally* agree with your other complaints about
>> > lead-free solder: it's clearly a pain in the ass. But to listen to you
>> > and others here go on about it, you'd think these rules were simply
>> > capricious actions of some pinheaded Eurocrats who don't know what the
>> > hell they're talking about. I think you're wrong about that.
>> >
>> > And I don't want to live in an environment full of lead, thank you very
>> > much.
>> >
>> > --
>> > The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
>> > with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.
>> >
>> > - Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)- Hide quoted text -
>> >
>> > - Show quoted text -
>>
>> But does the lead in the glass of crt's leach out, I don't think so.
>
>
> The EPA had to grind them to a fine dust, then use a strong acid to
> remove some lead. Then they claimed that CRTs had 27 pounds of lead.
Wow, that must've been a huge CRT... Or the rest of the CRT must've been
made of negative-weight materials...
As of "And I don't want to live in an environment full of lead, thank you very
much." -- where do you think that lead came from in the first place? Did
somebody bring it from the Moon?
---
******************************************************************
* KSI@home KOI8 Net < > The impossible we do immediately. *
* Las Vegas NV, USA < > Miracles require 24-hour notice. *
******************************************************************
== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, May 23 2010 1:23 am
From: adrian@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Adrian Tuddenham)
David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> On 5/22/2010 5:42 PM Arfa Daily spake thus:
>
[...]
> > Even if it does end up in landfill, how does the lead get back out of the
> > components and solder, into the environment. Hint, it doesn't ...
>
> How the hell can you say that with such cocksure certainty?
>
> Look; we *know* that all kinds of things can leach out of landfills.
> There's all kinds of shit in there besides PC boards, enough compounds
> to make a chemical brew capable of leaching lead (and other metals) into
> the surrounding area.
As far as I am aware, there was no proof offered that lead had been
leaching out of electronic solder in land-fill when the politicians came
to legislate on banning lead from solder. In the U.K. there were no
scientists or engineers on the committee that took that decision; and
the "self-evident fact" that lead was causing a problem was accepted
without question. I have yet to hear of any meaningful research which
backs up that decision.
There is little doubt, from the evidence coming in from all across the
electronics industry, that lead-free solder is decreasing the
reliability of equipment and increasing the cost of manufacture and the
amount of waste (containing other, more soluble, toxic materials) going
into landfill. The overall environmental effect of the anti-lead
legislation is the opposite of what we are trying to achieve.
Banning automated assembly of consumer electronics would be a much more
environmentally-friendly move as it would reduce production, increase
the price and ecourage consumers to hang on to their existing kit. It
might also encourage the manufacturers to make things in a way which
could be repaired. Anyone want to campaign for that?
There is plenty of "cocksure certainty" on both sides of the argument.
That wouldn't matter if it was just an argument, but unfounded prejudice
should not be allowed to dictate legislation.
--
~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
==============================================================================
TOPIC: opposite of an RF Modulator?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8b592fa97d607ae0?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 5:54 pm
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)
>>So what will I do when I have one or two digital tvs, but I'm sending
>>analog to all the tvs? I don't have the energy anymore to install
>>homeruns from the DVDR to any tv but the one in the same room. All
>>the rest are in series. I don't have the energy to run RCA cables for
>>composite or component.
>>
>>Can I convert the analog back to digital for the digital tvs?
>Phrase your question properly and you will get better results.
>
>Google 'ATSC Modulator'.
Probably unnecessary.
Almost all digital-cable TVs can receive and decode both ATSC
(digital) and NTSC (analog broadcast/cable) signals. They can look at
any proper 6 MHz slice of the broadcast spectrum, look at the signal
in that range, determine whether it's NTSC or ATSC, and display it
properly.
You can mix NTSC signals (e.g. the "channel 2/3" modulated output from
a VCR or DVD player) with ATSC digital, as long as you don't try to
put both on the same channel. The best way to do this is with a
proper single-channel combiner.
You ought to be able to arrange a setup which takes your incoming
antenna signal (which will consist almost entirely of ATSC signals),
buffers/amplifies it, mixes in a modulated NTSC signal from the DVDR
modulator (on a channel not used for ATSC), and distribues this out to
all of the TVs. Tune to an ATSC channel and they'll detect and decode
the corresponding digital signal. Tune to the channel you're using
for NTSC analog from the DVDR, and that's what they'll show.
This will be *much* less expensive than trying to take the analog
output of the DVDR, encode it into ATSC digital format, modulate it,
and mix it onto the cable.
The best video quality from the DVDR would be via HDMI (or component,
or S-Video, or composite, in that rough order) rather than via
modulated RF (which is often soft and blurry looking) but you'd need
home-run cables from the DVDR and some form of distribution amp to do
these.
--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!
==============================================================================
TOPIC: HELP:Measuring refresh rate of PCBs
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/786bc4e68b01617e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 7:15 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com
On May 22, 12:16 pm, "Caiusfabricius" <bric...@yahoo.it> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I built a simple circuit using te famous "sync separator" IC LM1881 in order
> to measure the refresh rate (Vsync) of JAMMA PCBs.I follow this scheme (but
> also the one form NATIONAL manufacturer is fine):
>
> http://www.gamoover.net/tuto/schema-de-montage-du-lm1881-s%C3%A9parat...
>
> The problem is that when I try to measure with a frequency counter the
> vertical sync output on PIN 3 of the LM1818 I obtain bad values (in order of
> Khz not in Hz as it should be.Usually it should be about 60Hz)
> To say that I check the circuit and is OK as well as my frequency counter
> that works fine when I measure, for example, the clock of the various CPU.
>
> Any suggestions?I'm going crazy...
>
> P.S.
> I use the VIDEO Sync (pin P of solder side of the jamma connector) as
> COMPOSITE VIDEO IN (pin 2 of the LM1881)
Do you have a scope? Can you verify the sync and burst gate outputs?
LM1881s are fairly forgiving of poor quality / wrong level video. Did
you try measuring the odd/even pulse? It should be 30 Hz (OK,
29.97002616 for the purists).
G²
== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 23 2010 12:05 am
From: who where
On Sat, 22 May 2010 21:16:18 +0200, "Caiusfabricius"
<briccus@yahoo.it> wrote:
>Hi all,
>I built a simple circuit using te famous "sync separator" IC LM1881 in order
>to measure the refresh rate (Vsync) of JAMMA PCBs.I follow this scheme (but
>also the one form NATIONAL manufacturer is fine):
>
>http://www.gamoover.net/tuto/schema-de-montage-du-lm1881-s%C3%A9paration-de-la-synchro-du-signal-composite
>
>The problem is that when I try to measure with a frequency counter the
>vertical sync output on PIN 3 of the LM1818 I obtain bad values (in order of
>Khz not in Hz as it should be.Usually it should be about 60Hz)
>To say that I check the circuit and is OK as well as my frequency counter
>that works fine when I measure, for example, the clock of the various CPU.
>
>Any suggestions?I'm going crazy...
>
>P.S.
>I use the VIDEO Sync (pin P of solder side of the jamma connector) as
>COMPOSITE VIDEO IN (pin 2 of the LM1881)
The LM1881 is notorious for giving undesired output sync waveforms.
They were used in the old (pre-GPS) days for deriving a reference
frequency from TV signals, and caused enormous grief to many.
We had such a frequency reference system using a widely published
schematic, and it would not provide the correct output frequency due
to an extra pulse in the train. Eventually we switched to the Gennum
4981sync separator and the problem disappeared. YMMV.
== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 23 2010 1:24 am
From: "Caius"
"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:VK_Jn.39676$eM2.37344@newsfe14.ams2...
>
> Have you looked at the output of your sync separator chip on a 'scope to
> verify that *only* field sync pulses are appearing at the pin that you are
> connecting to your counter ?
I don't have a scope, sorry..
Is the power supply clean ? No hash or high
> frequency ripple that might be appearing on the output ?
Ground and power pins of the LM1881 are directly connected to the ground and
+5 Volt
of my JAMMA test rig.
Have you tried a
> simple R-C low pass filter between the chip output and the frequency
> counter input ? (pure off the top of my head guess, try 10k series
> resistor followed by 1000pF shunt capacitor).
No, I didn't.Is it useful?
>Does your counter have appropriate sensitivity
> for the level coming out of the chip ? Too little level (under-drive) or
> too much level (overload) can cause counters to produce erratic and
> erroneous readings. Also remember that a field sync pulse train is
> *highly* asymmetric, being a series of short pulses with long gaps
> between. Can your frequency counter handle that sort of waveform, and
> interpret it as a 'frequency' ? If the counter has a "time" function on
> it, you may do better to try using this, and just work out the apparent
> field frequency from the time between pulses.
I use this counter:
>
> Have you tried measuring the odd / even output to at least see if that
> gets you in the right ballpark ? If it is an interlaced sync pulse train,
> then the vertical rate should be twice the odd / even rate.
Yes, on some PCBs I have tested I obtain a value of 30 Hz on the odd / even
output.Surely I ALWAYS obtain the value of 15.675 KHz (PAL signal) on pin 1
of the LM1881.
But is the Vsync and refresh rate the same thing?I'm speaking about arcade
PCBs...
>
>
> You probably need to do a bit more research as to what exactly the problem
> is, before reporting back so that we can see if we can help you figure how
> to make it work as you want it to.
>
> Arfa
>
==============================================================================
TOPIC: ? on NTE56041 for touch-on lamp
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d2558d31335920e5?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 7:45 pm
From: "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net"
On May 22, 3:19 pm, "hr(bob) hofm...@att.net" <hrhofm...@att.net>
wrote:
> On May 20, 2:15 pm, "Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am attempting to fix my Mother-in-law's touch-on/touch-off lamp, which
> > appears to have a faulty BT136-600E triac in it. The sub for this is the
> > NTE56041, but that part doesn't turn on the lights when I install it and
> > touch the metal body of the lamp. The original part at least tried to turn
> > the lights on when the metal body of the lamp was touched, but failed to do
> > so completely (they flickered while the lamp was being held in the hands).
> > Examining the PC board into which the triac is mounted, the leftmost
> > terminal is ground, the middle is hot, and the rightmost would appear to be
> > the gate, but has no voltage on it when the lamp is plugged in and held for
> > examination. Actually, it has .004 VAC on it, but 0.00 VDC, with the triac
> > removed from the circuit. And when the triac is inserted into the circuit,
> > and the lamp held for examination this same voltage (.004 VAC) is present in
> > the light sockets. It seems as if the triac is trying to turn the lights
> > on, but not quite making it. I am therefore wondering if I should
> > (effectively) reverse the connections going to MT1 and MT2, making them no
> > longer GND and HOT (respectively) but making MT1 HOT and MT2 GND. Could it
> > be that this light (and circuit board with it's triac) which was made in
> > Taiwan, has these leads backwards from what the NTE56041 is expecting? I
> > hesitate to make this change without a great deal of thought, as I suspect,
> > if I am wrong, it might make the body of the lamp HOT to the touch.
> > Thoughts and considerations are sought, and more than welcome. I am not
> > sure what to do.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Dave
>
> I just bought the cheapest touch-lamp I could find and used it for the
> parts to replace all the electronics, must faster and easier.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You can also buy the complete touch assembly in the electrical section
of some hardware stores, our local Menards, in the Chicago area, has
them.
== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 8:12 pm
From: "Dave"
"hr(bob) hofmann@att.net" <hrhofmann@att.net> wrote in message
news:a4c20eef-bbaf-417b-a9fe-53eb32601d71@c13g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
On May 22, 3:19 pm, "hr(bob) hofm...@att.net" <hrhofm...@att.net>
wrote:
> On May 20, 2:15 pm, "Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am attempting to fix my Mother-in-law's touch-on/touch-off lamp, which
> > appears to have a faulty BT136-600E triac in it. The sub for this is the
> > NTE56041, but that part doesn't turn on the lights when I install it and
> > touch the metal body of the lamp. The original part at least tried to
> > turn
> > the lights on when the metal body of the lamp was touched, but failed to
> > do
> > so completely (they flickered while the lamp was being held in the
> > hands).
> > Examining the PC board into which the triac is mounted, the leftmost
> > terminal is ground, the middle is hot, and the rightmost would appear to
> > be
> > the gate, but has no voltage on it when the lamp is plugged in and held
> > for
> > examination. Actually, it has .004 VAC on it, but 0.00 VDC, with the
> > triac
> > removed from the circuit. And when the triac is inserted into the
> > circuit,
> > and the lamp held for examination this same voltage (.004 VAC) is
> > present in
> > the light sockets. It seems as if the triac is trying to turn the lights
> > on, but not quite making it. I am therefore wondering if I should
> > (effectively) reverse the connections going to MT1 and MT2, making them
> > no
> > longer GND and HOT (respectively) but making MT1 HOT and MT2 GND. Could
> > it
> > be that this light (and circuit board with it's triac) which was made in
> > Taiwan, has these leads backwards from what the NTE56041 is expecting? I
> > hesitate to make this change without a great deal of thought, as I
> > suspect,
> > if I am wrong, it might make the body of the lamp HOT to the touch.
> > Thoughts and considerations are sought, and more than welcome. I am not
> > sure what to do.
>
> > Thanks,
>
> > Dave
>
> I just bought the cheapest touch-lamp I could find and used it for the
> parts to replace all the electronics, must faster and easier.- Hide quoted
> text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
You can also buy the complete touch assembly in the electrical section
of some hardware stores, our local Menards, in the Chicago area, has
them.
Hmmm. Will have to check that out. Have come to the conclusion that the
part I put in is still good, it just doesn't come on like it should. Why?
That's the question...
Thanks,
Dave
==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: card storage
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1faee31fa35fe26a?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 11:39 pm
From: D Yuniskis
Hi Andrew,
Andrew Smallshaw wrote:
> On 2010-05-17, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> D Yuniskis wrote:
>>> I want a portable LCD monitor and a portable keyboard.
>>> I want to be able to connect that monitor to any old PC
>>> just like any *other* LCD monitor.
>>> I want to be able to connect that keyboard to that same PC
>>> just like any other keyboard.
>>>
>>> *That* is what I am asking for.
>>>
>>> This should be possible (as a "hackable") with a small board
>>> installed in place of the laptop's guts. I.e., take the guts
>>> out of an LCD monitor and wire them to the connector for the
>>> LCD *panel* inside the gutted laptop (the keyboard is a
>>> simple thing to hack)
>> It hasn't come up lately, but for a while someone asked that question
>> about once a month. Then they would find that it cost more for the
>> custom elcetronics, than to buy a new monitor.
>
> I remember hearing about an NTI adapter that does exactly this.
> It only a few weeks since they sent me some marketing blurb about
> it so I assume it's fairly new. Looks like it could be quite useful
> but the price they are asking means it needs a lot of justification.
>
> http://www.networktechinc.com/usb-lap-console.html
Yes, this is probably the only (reasonable) commercial way
to make sucha device -- as a peripheral to an existing system.
If, however, you could identify a reasonably *popular* laptop
that is now "too old to be practical", you could put together
a kit to convert that laptop into the same sort of device
(i.e., gut the laptop, install a little PCB, connect LCD
panel and keyboard switch array)
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