sci.electronics.repair - 26 new messages in 14 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today's Lead Free Crap Solder Stories ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/161210aa2275c858?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 1:18 am
From: "N_Cook"

Anyone know if vibration can induce metallic tin to convert to tin pest
without having to cross the 13 degree C threshold. Or perhaps accelerate its
conversion if temp does at some point drop below 13 deg C.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 10:11 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-8790EA.09334621052010@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com...
> In article <mdlJn.18479$ea4.8777@newsfe29.ams2>,
> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>> I HATE
>> lead-free with a passion.
>
> I don't doubt your experiences, and of course this isn't your first rant
> about lead-free. I think the early lead-free formulas were inherently
> bad, but I think some of the new ones are pretty damn good. I don't mind
> working with them at all, and find the "solderability" to be on a par
> with lead.
>
> I still use a lot of lead, but some of my customers (who sell to Europe)
> specify lead-free. We use Sn96.5Ag3Cu0.5 and have been well-satisfied
> with it. I tend to agree with Wild Bill, that manufacturing has been
> turned over to the bean-counters, and that the quality issues you're
> seeing with consumer products may be due more to shitty practices than
> to the abandonment of lead.

But actually Smitty, it amounts to the same thing, doesn't it ? The cost of
consumer electronic equipment is so low, as has been dictated by the market,
that some shitty practices have to prevail to meet those price points. The
thing is that with leaded solder, those shitty practices that were
solder-related, could be got away with. With lead-free, they can't, so we
are now seeing equipment which manages to conform to the price constraints,
but can't make it any more, in the reliability stakes.

As to the current formulations being better than earlier ones, I'm not sure
that there is actually any difference. Mixes with additional metals to try
to improve the 'workability' of the stuff have been there right from the
start. It's just that they were too expensive to be practical. I guess for
manufacturing quantities, this is no longer the case, and this has
undoubtedly led to an improvement in joint integrity. For sure, lead-free
joints now at least look a bit better than they did, but I am still seeing
many more bad joints on in-warranty, or just out of warranty items, than I
ever did when leaded solder prevailed.

No matter how it's dressed up, the stuff just isn't as good for the job *all
round* as leaded solder was. It has replaced a mature and reliable
technology that had evolved into a process as near perfect as it could be,
with one that at best is a 'next best thing' compromise, and to what benefit
? None that actually stands up to scrutiny in the real world. It was a
politically green agenda fuelled by the hysterical rubbish that gets spouted
about both the real and imagined dangers of lead in the environment, that
lead to the situation that we now have.

Arfa

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 11:45 am
From: Smitty Two

In article <pfUJn.11$Qg5.9@newsfe06.ams2>,
"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> But actually Smitty, it amounts to the same thing, doesn't it ? The cost of
> consumer electronic equipment is so low, as has been dictated by the market,
> that some shitty practices have to prevail to meet those price points. The
> thing is that with leaded solder, those shitty practices that were
> solder-related, could be got away with. With lead-free, they can't, so we
> are now seeing equipment which manages to conform to the price constraints,
> but can't make it any more, in the reliability stakes.

I'm not in a position to disagree with you on that score. Safety and
reliability are founded on the principle of "more than one fault" being
needed to create failure, and you may well be right that lead was more
forgiving of shoddy manufacturing processes.

Fortunately, with the exception of some high-end audio, my company
doesn't make any consumer products. Our industrial customers expect
quality first, timely delivery second, and price third. They may squeak
about cost from time to time, but it's never a driving force.

Considering the price of many consumer electronic gadgets, I find it
astonishing that manufacturers can afford to put it in a box and ship it
from China, let alone manufacture it.

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:23 pm
From: PlainBill47@yahoo.com

On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>The first is the Warrior amp that I posted on here about, looking for
>schematics. None were found, and as expected, the importer ignored my pleas,
>so I decided I would spend a half hour on it 'blind'.
>
>It turned out to not be too difficult to get the main PCB out, complete with
>heatsinks and back panel. The wiring was long enough to allow the board to
>be turned over, without having to disconnect everything. The fault was that
>one of the two identical output stages was behaving as a pretty good half
>wave rectifier, but only with a load connected. With no load, an applied
>sine wave was perfectly symmetrical at the output terminals, and of similar
>size to the good channel. With a load connected, the negative excursions
>disappeared almost totally. Nothing was burning, and the the output protect
>didn't even fire until the wick was turned well up, which led me to believe
>that the problem may well be back in the driver stages or earlier. As there
>are two identical amps, I figured that I would start with a few comparitive
>resistance checks between channels. Quickly, I found that at the base pin of
>one of the driver transistors, I had a reading of 3k or so on the good
>channel, but open circuit at the same point on the bad channel. I followed
>the print back and took another reading and Lo! - 3k ...
>
>So I went back to the transistor leg - open, but at the joint, 3k. I tell
>you, I examined that joint with the strongest light and magnifier that I
>have, but you could not see a problem with it. However, as soon as it was
>resoldered, 3k on the leg as well, and the amp then worked normally. This is
>the problem with lead free. You can no longer spot bad joints by eye, and
>they don't behave like conventional bad joints any more.
>
>The second one was a Vox combo. This one was reported as "goes off after a
>while - tap top to get it back". It actually ran for about 2 hours, during
>which time I thrashed the output stage so hard you couldn't touch the
>heatsink, and periodically knocked seven bells out of it with the butt end
>of a large philips screwdy. At no time did it show any signs of
>intermittency. I was actually on the phone to the store that it came to me
>from, to check if they knew the owner, and whether he was savvy, or a
>numpty, when it went off. Just like that. No provocation. You could then
>lightly tap the top of the chassis just about anywhere, and it would come
>and go at will. So easy was it to make it do it, you would have thought that
>the joint causing it would have been really easily spotted. I twisted and
>wiggled everything I could, but nothing made it do it, but still the
>lightest tap, and there it went.
>
> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that did no
>good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the board. It was a
>component that I had previously twisted. This time I pulled it, and one leg
>just came right out of the board. The joint looked perfectly normal - for
>lead-free that is - but it had not whetted the resistor leg at all. How the
>hell could that take two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all before
>that time, and then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so
>tap sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
>lead-free with a passion.
>
>If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid ...
>
>Arfa
>
There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.

PlainBill

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:29 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBill47@yahoo.com spake thus:

> On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

[...]

>> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
>> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
>> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
>> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The
>> joint looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had
>> not whetted the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take
>> two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
>> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
>> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
>> lead-free with a passion.
>>
>> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
>> ...
>
> There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
> consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
> ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
> other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.

Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap
end up?

Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other
things you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything
else there eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:42 pm
From: Smitty Two

In article <4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBill47@yahoo.com spake thus:
>
> > On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> > <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
> >> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
> >> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
> >> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The
> >> joint looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had
> >> not whetted the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take
> >> two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
> >> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
> >> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
> >> lead-free with a passion.
> >>
> >> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
> >> ...
> >
> > There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
> > consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
> > ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
> > other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>
> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap
> end up?
>
> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other
> things you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything
> else there eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).

AIUI, 99.9% of the lead in consumer electronics was in CRTs. Isn't there
something like a couple of pounds of the stuff in there? Now that we've
switched to LCDs, that problem has gone away. The amount of lead in a
circuit board is practically negligible.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 4:22 pm
From: Jim Yanik

Smitty Two <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in news:prestwhich-
6B93A1.15420722052010@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com:

> In article <4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>
>> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBill47@yahoo.com spake thus:
>>
>> > On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>> > <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> >> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
>> >> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
>> >> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
>> >> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The
>> >> joint looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had
>> >> not whetted the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take
>> >> two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
>> >> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
>> >> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
>> >> lead-free with a passion.
>> >>
>> >> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
>> >> ...
>> >
>> > There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
>> > consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
>> > ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
>> > other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>>
>> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap
>> end up?
>>
>> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
>> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
>> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other
>> things you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything
>> else there eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).
>
> AIUI, 99.9% of the lead in consumer electronics was in CRTs. Isn't there
> something like a couple of pounds of the stuff in there? Now that we've
> switched to LCDs, that problem has gone away. The amount of lead in a
> circuit board is practically negligible.
>

Yes,and how much actually leaches out from PCBs?
I suspect lead tire-balance weights contribute far more lead to the
environment.(they -have- switched to no-lead alloys)
I find them all the time when I'm out on my bicycle.
I pick them up and melt them into ingots.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 5:37 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 5/22/2010 4:22 PM Jim Yanik spake thus:

> Smitty Two <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in news:prestwhich-
> 6B93A1.15420722052010@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com:
>
>> In article <4bf8595c$0$2375$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
>> David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/22/2010 12:23 PM PlainBill47@yahoo.com spake thus:
>>>
>>> > On Fri, 21 May 2010 02:20:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>>> > <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> >> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
>>> >> did no good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the
>>> >> board. It was a component that I had previously twisted. This time
>>> >> I pulled it, and one leg just came right out of the board. The
>>> >> joint looked perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had
>>> >> not whetted the resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take
>>> >> two hours to go bad, not be responsive at all before that time, and
>>> >> then when it has gone bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap
>>> >> sensitive that you could make it come and go with a feather? I HATE
>>> >> lead-free with a passion.
>>> >>
>>> >> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid
>>> >> ...
>>> >
>>> > There is no doubt lead should not be used where it can wind up being
>>> > consumed by humans or animals.. It's use in gasoline, paint, dyes,
>>> > ceramic glazes, cast toys, trinkets, etc is indefensible. On the
>>> > other hand, banning it's use in ICs, and circuit boards is asinine.
>>>
>>> Is it really? Think about it: where does the majority of all that crap
>>> end up?
>>>
>>> Hint: it sure as hell ain't in approved, safely managed reclamation or
>>> recycling facilities. You know what I'm talking about. So it's the same
>>> with lead-containing consumer electronics as it is with those other
>>> things you mentioned (well, not the same as gasoline, but everything
>>> else there eventually ends up in landfills, waterways, etc.).
>>
>> AIUI, 99.9% of the lead in consumer electronics was in CRTs. Isn't there
>> something like a couple of pounds of the stuff in there? Now that we've
>> switched to LCDs, that problem has gone away. The amount of lead in a
>> circuit board is practically negligible.
>
> Yes,and how much actually leaches out from PCBs?

Lots. Enough to do real damage. Hence the regulations.

> I suspect lead tire-balance weights contribute far more lead to the
> environment.(they -have- switched to no-lead alloys)
> I find them all the time when I'm out on my bicycle.
> I pick them up and melt them into ingots.

Hey, I do that too! It's almost a reflex with me. Someday someone's
gonna see me stuffing a big ol' wheel weight into my pocket and go
"WTF?????".

I've actually taken a lot of lead out of the environment this way.
Pounds and pounds of it.

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Model Sony KDS 60-A2000 no vertical
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b1314e439e2f7a44?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:25 am
From: "Mark Zacharias"

<stokesbr@cox.net> wrote in message
news:9bf69c89-64ca-4bc1-a384-4fc85f6e9120@e21g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> Need your help once again group, and this is my own TV. Got the 4 red
> blinks on the power light. Set won't come up. Web search says this
> code is loss of verical. I can't find any info other than this. I
> hoped that this problem would be somewhat common to this particular
> model with a common fix. I don't have the schematic, but will have to
> get it if no more info available about this problem. The set is out of
> warranty and is only about 3 years old. Anyone aware of this as a
> common issue with this set, and the fix? Thanks group.

That error code refers to previous models. Yours has no such vertical
circuit. More likely a bad lamp.

Mark Z.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: technics amp SU-Z200 low volume problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9e0b05e00f883d65?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 6:32 am
From: b

On May 21, 2:45 pm, "William R. Walsh" <wm_wa...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> If you try it, please do post back!
>
> William

Just soldered in the other ic and guess what? same problem!
a tricky one this, as there aren't that many things on the pcb common
to both channels. will keep looking...
-B

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8056d25949e3c3d1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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TOPIC: Michael Terrell's cat found
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/659f6acb71f7bd9f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:08 am
From: Curtis Brown

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-ia-catnailed,0,5490032.story

==============================================================================
TOPIC: When Michael Terrell makes his own hat, it makes the news....
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/405f897fcf4db992?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:12 am
From: Curtis Brown

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20005516-504083.html

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:22 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sat, 22 May 2010 09:12:26 +0000, Curtis Brown wrote:

> http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20005516-504083.html

Aw, did Mike give you a Usenet ass-whoopin?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sony tube tv going bad?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1a8f0a8ed4bdfbf7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 10:35 am
From: Phil@INVALID.com(Phil)

Hello:

This has not been a good week. Last week something killed my (14yo) gas range.
While baking dinner it made a loud snap/crack sound like a light bulb exploded
and stopped working. Clocks dead, ignitors for the stovetop and oven won't work.
Looks like I'll have to replace it.

Now last night our Sony 30" tube tv (aprox 7-9yo) started to act up. We were watching
a dvd when the picture went to black, but the sound was ok. I immediately thought it
was a defective DVD but that's not the case. I turned off the dvd player and tried to
watch some tv but had picture problems. As I flipped channels the picture would be ok
for half a second then go to half brightness, freaky colors and distorted image, then pitch
black. The aux inputs Video 1, Video 2, etc. also were effected. Turning the tv off for a
minute and then back on fixed it for a while then it happened again. The tv seems to be
working ok so far today. So, what do you think? Tuner crapping out or the picture tube
going? I thought the Sony Trinitron sets were long lived and pretty much trouble free...

Thanks, Phil

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:19 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sat, 22 May 2010 17:35:32 +0000, Phil wrote:

> Hello:
>
> This has not been a good week. Last week something killed my (14yo) gas
> range. While baking dinner it made a loud snap/crack sound like a light
> bulb exploded and stopped working. Clocks dead, ignitors for the
> stovetop and oven won't work. Looks like I'll have to replace it.
>
> Now last night our Sony 30" tube tv (aprox 7-9yo) started to act up. We
> were watching a dvd when the picture went to black, but the sound was
> ok. I immediately thought it was a defective DVD but that's not the
> case. I turned off the dvd player and tried to watch some tv but had
> picture problems. As I flipped channels the picture would be ok for half
> a second then go to half brightness, freaky colors and distorted image,
> then pitch black. The aux inputs Video 1, Video 2, etc. also were
> effected. Turning the tv off for a minute and then back on fixed it for
> a while then it happened again. The tv seems to be working ok so far
> today. So, what do you think? Tuner crapping out or the picture tube
> going? I thought the Sony Trinitron sets were long lived and pretty much
> trouble free...
>
> Thanks, Phil

Sorry to read about your loss.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 1:13 pm
From: "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net"

On May 22, 12:35 pm, P...@INVALID.com(Phil) wrote:
> Hello:
>
> This has not been a good week. Last week something killed my (14yo) gas range.
> While baking dinner it made a loud snap/crack sound like a light bulb exploded
> and stopped working. Clocks dead, ignitors for the stovetop and oven won't work.
> Looks like I'll have to replace it.
>
> Now last night our Sony 30" tube tv (aprox 7-9yo) started to act up. We were watching
> a dvd when the picture went to black, but the sound was ok. I immediately thought it
> was a defective DVD but that's not the case. I turned off the dvd player and tried to
> watch some tv but had picture problems. As I flipped channels the picture would be ok
> for half a second then go to half brightness, freaky colors and distorted image, then pitch
> black. The aux inputs Video 1, Video 2, etc. also were effected. Turning the tv off for a
> minute and then back on fixed it for a while then it happened again. The tv seems to be
> working ok so far today. So, what do you think? Tuner crapping out or the picture tube
> going? I thought the Sony Trinitron sets were long lived and pretty much trouble free...
>
> Thanks, Phil

Sounds like the circuit that monitors the crt called the IK circuit or
something like that is cutting out the video because the circuit
thinks the CRT is going out of balance for the 3 guns.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: opposite of an RF Modulator?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8b592fa97d607ae0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:12 pm
From: PlainBill47@yahoo.com

On Thu, 20 May 2010 01:19:04 -0400, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>Does there exist the opposite of an RF Modulator? Something that will
>take RF and turn it into digital for a digital tv?
>
>
>Details:
>I don't need this yet but I'm trying to plan ahead. What will I do
>when I have one or two digital tvs, but I'm sending analog to all the
>tvs in the house? I don't have the energy anymore to install
>homeruns from the DVDR to any tv but the one in the same room. All
>the rest are in series ther. I don't have the energy to run RCA
>cables for composite or component inputs.
>
>Right now, I use a DVDR and an RF modulator to take digital over the
>air tv, detect it, and convert it to analog. and I send it to the 7
>tv's I have, one in each room, and maybe one for the deck too. After
>some effort, with some help from you guys, this works fine. The attic
>antenna goes to the DVDR in my bedroom and soon, I'll have a set-top
>box too (and a Channelplus modulator outputing two inputs on separate
>channels), so I can record one show and watch a second, while sending
>the second throughout the house.
>
>I'm not going to buy 8 digital tv's at one time, and in reality, I'm
>only going to get them one at a time over the next 10 or 20 years,
>dpending on what I see at yard sales.
>
>So what will I do when I have one or two digital tvs, but I'm sending
>analog to all the tvs? I don't have the energy anymore to install
>homeruns from the DVDR to any tv but the one in the same room. All
>the rest are in series. I don't have the energy to run RCA cables for
>composite or component.
>
>Can I convert the analog back to digital for the digital tvs?
Phrase your question properly and you will get better results.

Google 'ATSC Modulator'.

PlainBill

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HELP:Measuring refresh rate of PCBs
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/786bc4e68b01617e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:16 pm
From: "Caiusfabricius"

Hi all,
I built a simple circuit using te famous "sync separator" IC LM1881 in order
to measure the refresh rate (Vsync) of JAMMA PCBs.I follow this scheme (but
also the one form NATIONAL manufacturer is fine):

http://www.gamoover.net/tuto/schema-de-montage-du-lm1881-s%C3%A9paration-de-la-synchro-du-signal-composite

The problem is that when I try to measure with a frequency counter the
vertical sync output on PIN 3 of the LM1818 I obtain bad values (in order of
Khz not in Hz as it should be.Usually it should be about 60Hz)
To say that I check the circuit and is OK as well as my frequency counter
that works fine when I measure, for example, the clock of the various CPU.

Any suggestions?I'm going crazy...

P.S.
I use the VIDEO Sync (pin P of solder side of the jamma connector) as
COMPOSITE VIDEO IN (pin 2 of the LM1881)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 5:34 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Caiusfabricius" <briccus@yahoo.it> wrote in message
news:4bf82d86$0$18994$4fafbaef@reader5.news.tin.it...
> Hi all,
> I built a simple circuit using te famous "sync separator" IC LM1881 in
> order to measure the refresh rate (Vsync) of JAMMA PCBs.I follow this
> scheme (but also the one form NATIONAL manufacturer is fine):
>
> http://www.gamoover.net/tuto/schema-de-montage-du-lm1881-s%C3%A9paration-de-la-synchro-du-signal-composite
>
> The problem is that when I try to measure with a frequency counter the
> vertical sync output on PIN 3 of the LM1818 I obtain bad values (in order
> of Khz not in Hz as it should be.Usually it should be about 60Hz)
> To say that I check the circuit and is OK as well as my frequency counter
> that works fine when I measure, for example, the clock of the various CPU.
>
> Any suggestions?I'm going crazy...
>
> P.S.
> I use the VIDEO Sync (pin P of solder side of the jamma connector) as
> COMPOSITE VIDEO IN (pin 2 of the LM1881)
>

Have you looked at the output of your sync separator chip on a 'scope to
verify that *only* field sync pulses are appearing at the pin that you are
connecting to your counter ? Is the power supply clean ? No hash or high
frequency ripple that might be appearing on the output ? Have you tried a
simple R-C low pass filter between the chip output and the frequency counter
input ? (pure off the top of my head guess, try 10k series resistor followed
by 1000pF shunt capacitor). Does your counter have appropriate sensitivity
for the level coming out of the chip ? Too little level (under-drive) or too
much level (overload) can cause counters to produce erratic and erroneous
readings. Also remember that a field sync pulse train is *highly*
asymmetric, being a series of short pulses with long gaps between. Can your
frequency counter handle that sort of waveform, and interpret it as a
'frequency' ? If the counter has a "time" function on it, you may do better
to try using this, and just work out the apparent field frequency from the
time between pulses.

Have you tried measuring the odd / even output to at least see if that gets
you in the right ballpark ? If it is an interlaced sync pulse train, then
the vertical rate should be twice the odd / even rate.

You probably need to do a bit more research as to what exactly the problem
is, before reporting back so that we can see if we can help you figure how
to make it work as you want it to.

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ? on NTE56041 for touch-on lamp
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d2558d31335920e5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 1:19 pm
From: "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net"

On May 20, 2:15 pm, "Dave" <db5...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I am attempting to fix my Mother-in-law's touch-on/touch-off lamp, which
> appears to have a faulty BT136-600E triac in it. The sub for this is the
> NTE56041, but that part doesn't turn on the lights when I install it and
> touch the metal body of the lamp. The original part at least tried to turn
> the lights on when the metal body of the lamp was touched, but failed to do
> so completely (they flickered while the lamp was being held in the hands).
> Examining the PC board into which the triac is mounted, the leftmost
> terminal is ground, the middle is hot, and the rightmost would appear to be
> the gate, but has no voltage on it when the lamp is plugged in and held for
> examination. Actually, it has .004 VAC on it, but 0.00 VDC, with the triac
> removed from the circuit. And when the triac is inserted into the circuit,
> and the lamp held for examination this same voltage (.004 VAC) is present in
> the light sockets. It seems as if the triac is trying to turn the lights
> on, but not quite making it. I am therefore wondering if I should
> (effectively) reverse the connections going to MT1 and MT2, making them no
> longer GND and HOT (respectively) but making MT1 HOT and MT2 GND. Could it
> be that this light (and circuit board with it's triac) which was made in
> Taiwan, has these leads backwards from what the NTE56041 is expecting? I
> hesitate to make this change without a great deal of thought, as I suspect,
> if I am wrong, it might make the body of the lamp HOT to the touch.
> Thoughts and considerations are sought, and more than welcome. I am not
> sure what to do.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave

I just bought the cheapest touch-lamp I could find and used it for the
parts to replace all the electronics, must faster and easier.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Followup re: USB malfunction ? / Ezbus digital mixer /Ez-usb USB chip
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a3a382fddd16c1f3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 2:52 pm
From: Franc Zabkar

On Sat, 22 May 2010 07:49:28 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

>Switching SDA line after 3 seconds still keeps the USB open but wrong
>identity for the mixer firmware installer. Not had a chance to connect it up
>to a pc but I'm assuming it will not software connect if expecting the mixer
>VID/VID/endpoint. When next I have some time I will load the installer.exe
>into hex_reader_XVI32 and see if I can swap VID / PID hex-codes to fool it
>into thinking it is an EZbus rather than EZusb it is hooked to. Probably
>checksummed there but simple enough to try.

You may be interested in IICUNI. It is a utility that controls I2C
devices from a PC parallel port. I suspect that you could program the
serial EEPROM in-circuit if you keep the EZ-USB chip quiet by holding
down its reset pin.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060511013214/sterr.narod.ru/progs/iicuni.rar

I believe the EZ-USB datasheet should tell you how to compute the
checksum.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: card storage
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1faee31fa35fe26a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:09 pm
From: Andrew Smallshaw

On 2010-05-17, Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> D Yuniskis wrote:
>>
>> I want a portable LCD monitor and a portable keyboard.
>> I want to be able to connect that monitor to any old PC
>> just like any *other* LCD monitor.
>> I want to be able to connect that keyboard to that same PC
>> just like any other keyboard.
>>
>> *That* is what I am asking for.
>>
>> This should be possible (as a "hackable") with a small board
>> installed in place of the laptop's guts. I.e., take the guts
>> out of an LCD monitor and wire them to the connector for the
>> LCD *panel* inside the gutted laptop (the keyboard is a
>> simple thing to hack)
>
> It hasn't come up lately, but for a while someone asked that question
> about once a month. Then they would find that it cost more for the
> custom elcetronics, than to buy a new monitor.

I remember hearing about an NTI adapter that does exactly this.
It only a few weeks since they sent me some marketing blurb about
it so I assume it's fairly new. Looks like it could be quite useful
but the price they are asking means it needs a lot of justification.

http://www.networktechinc.com/usb-lap-console.html

--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org

==============================================================================
TOPIC: VT5V73 Generic 15" LCD Color NTSC Composite Video Monitor No Backlight
Symptom
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6a68c49b01bdbfae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:09 pm
From: Franc Zabkar

On Thu, 20 May 2010 23:04:51 -0400, "Wild_Bill"
<wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>I bought a couple of used units of these No-brand generic LCD monitors to
>use for video camera use. They have no brand name, and I don't know where
>they were sold originally.

Google turns up this page:
http://www.omnivisionusa.com/desktop/15.1_FP_NTSC.html

There is a phone number at the bottom of the page.

Is there an FCC ID on the back, or is it just a compliance statement?

You may find a circuit diagram and/or user manual here:
https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:49 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

Thank you Franc, you always seem to be able to find stuff that others don't,
it amazes me.

There is only a compliance statement on the back, no FCC registered numbers.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

"Franc Zabkar" <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:v7lgv5pjjkph81pc3nglfbnv7niikbclld@4ax.com...
>
> Google turns up this page:
> http://www.omnivisionusa.com/desktop/15.1_FP_NTSC.html
>
> There is a phone number at the bottom of the page.
>
> Is there an FCC ID on the back, or is it just a compliance statement?
>
> You may find a circuit diagram and/or user manual here:
> https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Auto Iris CCTV Video Camera Lens Pinout Old Cosmicar TV Pinhole similar
to C30904
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fc086554a2fcb903?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 3:36 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

I'd like to know if anyone could point me to info regarding the 5-wire
circuit in this older, discontinued Cosmicar pinhole video camera lens.

The unpowered state of the iris is closed, and by carefully applying some
voltages, after making some resistance checks, I was able to open the iris.
I can use the lens with the iris open, but if I could find out the correct
cable connections, this may allow me to use the auto-iris feature as
intended.

The specs I've found for the C30904 (similar model) are:
Format: 2/3"
Iris: Auto/Video (I believe this means the iris is driven by the camera's
video level)

Externally, the markings consist of:
Cosmicar Pinhole TV Lens
EX 9mm 1:3.4 Made in Japan
Marked holes for adjusting Level and ALC pots on the circuit board
The overall length is about 6.5".

Inside the lens housing, I've found the following circuit board markings:
Servoeye EX
PC-50 S-208985

The connector that was on the lens cable was a mini Hirose 6-pin, with only
3 wires connected, and didn't appear to be a factory-installed original
connector.

The wires in the cable are:
Black
Red
Green
White
Yellow

The 3 wires that were connected in the Hirose connector were Black, Red and
White.

Applying 5-9Vdc to the blk(-) and red(+), the iris will open (full open at
about 9V).

When grn is connected to blk (-) (with voltage applied at blk/red), the iris
closes.

A voltage output is seen on whi and yel of about 2V with 5V applied to
blk/red, or about 3V with 9V applied to blk/red.

BTW, I've seen commercial converters for sale, for changing between video
and DC controlled auto-iris types.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

==============================================================================

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