sci.electronics.repair - 19 new messages in 9 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Today's Lead Free Crap Solder Stories ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/161210aa2275c858?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 9:33 am
From: Smitty Two

In article <mdlJn.18479$ea4.8777@newsfe29.ams2>,
"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

> I HATE
> lead-free with a passion.

I don't doubt your experiences, and of course this isn't your first rant
about lead-free. I think the early lead-free formulas were inherently
bad, but I think some of the new ones are pretty damn good. I don't mind
working with them at all, and find the "solderability" to be on a par
with lead.

I still use a lot of lead, but some of my customers (who sell to Europe)
specify lead-free. We use Sn96.5Ag3Cu0.5 and have been well-satisfied
with it. I tend to agree with Wild Bill, that manufacturing has been
turned over to the bean-counters, and that the quality issues you're
seeing with consumer products may be due more to shitty practices than
to the abandonment of lead.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 9:54 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9D7F660E7F973jyaniklocalnetcom@216.168.3.44...
> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in
> news:mdlJn.18479$ea4.8777@newsfe29.ams2:
>
>> The first is the Warrior amp that I posted on here about, looking for
>> schematics. None were found, and as expected, the importer ignored my
>> pleas, so I decided I would spend a half hour on it 'blind'.
>>
>> It turned out to not be too difficult to get the main PCB out,
>> complete with heatsinks and back panel. The wiring was long enough to
>> allow the board to be turned over, without having to disconnect
>> everything. The fault was that one of the two identical output stages
>> was behaving as a pretty good half wave rectifier, but only with a
>> load connected. With no load, an applied sine wave was perfectly
>> symmetrical at the output terminals, and of similar size to the good
>> channel. With a load connected, the negative excursions disappeared
>> almost totally. Nothing was burning, and the the output protect didn't
>> even fire until the wick was turned well up, which led me to believe
>> that the problem may well be back in the driver stages or earlier. As
>> there are two identical amps, I figured that I would start with a few
>> comparitive resistance checks between channels. Quickly, I found that
>> at the base pin of one of the driver transistors, I had a reading of
>> 3k or so on the good channel, but open circuit at the same point on
>> the bad channel. I followed the print back and took another reading
>> and Lo! - 3k ...
>>
>> So I went back to the transistor leg - open, but at the joint, 3k. I
>> tell you, I examined that joint with the strongest light and magnifier
>> that I have, but you could not see a problem with it. However, as soon
>> as it was resoldered, 3k on the leg as well, and the amp then worked
>> normally. This is the problem with lead free. You can no longer spot
>> bad joints by eye, and they don't behave like conventional bad joints
>> any more.
>>
>> The second one was a Vox combo. This one was reported as "goes off
>> after a while - tap top to get it back". It actually ran for about 2
>> hours, during which time I thrashed the output stage so hard you
>> couldn't touch the heatsink, and periodically knocked seven bells out
>> of it with the butt end of a large philips screwdy. At no time did it
>> show any signs of intermittency. I was actually on the phone to the
>> store that it came to me from, to check if they knew the owner, and
>> whether he was savvy, or a numpty, when it went off. Just like that.
>> No provocation. You could then lightly tap the top of the chassis just
>> about anywhere, and it would come and go at will. So easy was it to
>> make it do it, you would have thought that the joint causing it would
>> have been really easily spotted. I twisted and wiggled everything I
>> could, but nothing made it do it, but still the lightest tap, and
>> there it went.
>>
>> Eventually, after a frustrating session of blanket resoldering that
>> did no
>> good at all, I came to a power resistor standing up off the board. It
>> was a component that I had previously twisted. This time I pulled it,
>> and one leg just came right out of the board. The joint looked
>> perfectly normal - for lead-free that is - but it had not whetted the
>> resistor leg at all. How the hell could that take two hours to go bad,
>> not be responsive at all before that time, and then when it has gone
>> bad, not respond to twisting, but be so tap sensitive that you could
>> make it come and go with a feather? I HATE lead-free with a passion.
>>
>> If it ever finds its way into avionics, be afraid, be VERY afraid ...
>>
>> Arfa
>>
>>
>>
>
> most of the time,when you have an intermittent,if you tap it,you end up
> working the joint to a better connection and you don't see the
> intermittent.
> you have to leave it alone and wait patiently for the IM to show up,then
> lightly tap around to find the area most sensitive.
>
> --
> Jim Yanik

Traditionally Jim, I would agree with you for bad joints on leaded solder.
They are predictable, well behaved in terms of tap sensitivity and
sensitivity to heat and cold and board flexing, but above all, for the most
part, readily visible. Lead-free bad joints seem to exhibit no such
tendencies. Their auto-failure and self-recovery often seem to bear no fixed
relationship to temperature, time or the way in which they are disturbed.
The Vox was a good example of that.

It might be argued that the changing of the mature leaded soldering
technology, that was pretty much taped down in terms of 'goodness' of joints
and reliability, for the lead-free technolgy which has taken us back 40
years to the early days of PCB production in terms of reliability, has been
good for the trade because of it bringing more work through the door.
Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case. Whereas I would expect to be able
to find and correct a bad joint on a leaded solder board in a maximum of 15
minutes from putting the item on the bench, with a lead-free bad joint, I
might finish up spending an hour or more on frustrating blanket reworks of
whole areas of joints, using half a reel more of the hateful stuff, because
conventional ways of finding the bad joints no longer work.

If I then tried to charge a proper living wage hourly rate for the job, the
owners would never come back to pick the item up, instead spending their
hard-earned on the latest bigger / better / shinier / cheaper offering from
China ...

Lead-free solder is making items fail much more than they need to, and
rendering repair uneconomic, leading to more equipment scrapping and, with
the best recycling will in the world, more items going to landfill. I wonder
if all the narrow minded inward thinking ecobollox merchants had this in
mind when they came up with their wonderful idea of mandating the use of
lead-free solder as part of their 'save the planet' religion ?

Arfa

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 11:15 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Fri, 21 May 2010 10:51:48 -0500, Jeffrey D Angus
<jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:

>Wild_Bill wrote:
>> What's taken place, I think, which I suspect was intentionally
>> forced upon most of us, is that manufacturers wanted to lower
>> everyone's expectations of quality.
>
>I've been watching this "trend" since the '70s.

What happened before the 70's? It's not like designed obsolescence is
anything new. Auto manufacturers were doing that since WWII where you
were expected to buy a new car every two years.

>My opinion is that we as consumers have brought this on
>ourselves with the attitude of: "I don't care if it's
>crap, I want it now, I want it cheap and I'll be bored
>with it within a year anyway."

Yep. Blame the victims.

It's really a self fulfilling mechanism. Today's consumers simply
assume that everything they buy is junk and will blow up immediately
after the warranty expires. Why bother paying for quality when
literally everything falls apart or blows up overnight? The only
thing the vendors can compete on is price, resulting in very small
differences in price that can kill or make a product. That also
results in cutting every corner possible, including shoddy soldering,
bitter edge component selection, and designed to fail component
selection.

What seems to be happening is the demise of hand soldering. In the
distant past, it was somewhat traditional to solder mask the large
physical parts, which acted as a heat sink, during wave soldering, and
hand solder them in "touch-up". Component manufacturers have made
heroic attempts to design components that can be properly wave
soldered, but they tend to be expensive. So, to cut costs,
manufacturers seem to be running everything through wave soldering or
vapor reflow soldering machines, including parts that are really are
too massive. Touch-up is eliminated as is burn-in and QA. If it
blows up, by the time the customer returns it, the next generation of
products will be available. That actually worked with tin-lead
solder, but is failing with RoHS solder. The problem seems to be
(i.e. my opinion) that tin-silver solder has a narrower range of
working temperatures than tin-lead. The large physical components
that were previously soldered by hand, simply suck away too much heat
when soldered, resulting in a cold solder joint.

>Although this isn't entirely new. You could be cheap or
>shoddy merchandise for as long as they've been bartering
>from stuff. It's just that the ability to mass produce
>garbage has exceeded our wildest expectations.

Yeah, but you probably couldn't afford it if everything were quality
merchandise.

Anyway, cease complaining. Your test equipment collection is about
the same age as mine and belongs in a museum. It is possible to build
reliable and long life electronics. Just don't expect that from
consumer electronics.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 12:27 am
From: "N_Cook"

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:48idv5teiqm39pfl1dtmc9f4ko3qm6bmdl@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 21 May 2010 10:51:48 -0500, Jeffrey D Angus
> <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Wild_Bill wrote:
> >> What's taken place, I think, which I suspect was intentionally
> >> forced upon most of us, is that manufacturers wanted to lower
> >> everyone's expectations of quality.
> >
> >I've been watching this "trend" since the '70s.
>
> What happened before the 70's? It's not like designed obsolescence is
> anything new. Auto manufacturers were doing that since WWII where you
> were expected to buy a new car every two years.
>
> >My opinion is that we as consumers have brought this on
> >ourselves with the attitude of: "I don't care if it's
> >crap, I want it now, I want it cheap and I'll be bored
> >with it within a year anyway."
>
> Yep. Blame the victims.
>
> It's really a self fulfilling mechanism. Today's consumers simply
> assume that everything they buy is junk and will blow up immediately
> after the warranty expires. Why bother paying for quality when
> literally everything falls apart or blows up overnight? The only
> thing the vendors can compete on is price, resulting in very small
> differences in price that can kill or make a product. That also
> results in cutting every corner possible, including shoddy soldering,
> bitter edge component selection, and designed to fail component
> selection.
>
> What seems to be happening is the demise of hand soldering. In the
> distant past, it was somewhat traditional to solder mask the large
> physical parts, which acted as a heat sink, during wave soldering, and
> hand solder them in "touch-up". Component manufacturers have made
> heroic attempts to design components that can be properly wave
> soldered, but they tend to be expensive. So, to cut costs,
> manufacturers seem to be running everything through wave soldering or
> vapor reflow soldering machines, including parts that are really are
> too massive. Touch-up is eliminated as is burn-in and QA. If it
> blows up, by the time the customer returns it, the next generation of
> products will be available. That actually worked with tin-lead
> solder, but is failing with RoHS solder. The problem seems to be
> (i.e. my opinion) that tin-silver solder has a narrower range of
> working temperatures than tin-lead. The large physical components
> that were previously soldered by hand, simply suck away too much heat
> when soldered, resulting in a cold solder joint.
>
> >Although this isn't entirely new. You could be cheap or
> >shoddy merchandise for as long as they've been bartering
> >from stuff. It's just that the ability to mass produce
> >garbage has exceeded our wildest expectations.
>
> Yeah, but you probably couldn't afford it if everything were quality
> merchandise.
>
> Anyway, cease complaining. Your test equipment collection is about
> the same age as mine and belongs in a museum. It is possible to build
> reliable and long life electronics. Just don't expect that from
> consumer electronics.
>
>
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
> 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

My suspicion it is more to do with tinpest rather than lead free solder. A
layer of 100 percent tin tinning of all leads. Often on removing failed
joints , by pulling, not desoldering, you can see the dusty grey surface of
presumably tinpest .
Then volume change (27 percent ?) to the tinpest allotrope of tin and its
insulation rather than conduction causes the electrical break. Mismatch
thermal expansion coefficients don't seem t be problematic

http://www.boulder.nist.gov/div853/lead_free/part1.html#%201.12.
etc on
http://www.boulder.nist.gov/div853/lead_free/props01.html

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, May 22 2010 1:18 am
From: "N_Cook"

Anyone know if vibration can induce metallic tin to convert to tin pest
without having to cross the 13 degree C threshold. Or perhaps accelerate its
conversion if temp does at some point drop below 13 deg C.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: BWS688 is dead
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b88c19d1c4c5cfb2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 9:39 am
From: Merciadri Luca

On May 20, 9:48 pm, "Vale" <V...@fastwebnet.it> wrote:
> You're from Liege,is it?
> I have been working several years around you and I met many Italians, born
> in Belgium but reluctant to define themselves Italians.
> Is it true, they are not and I don't blame at all.
But sure that I'm not. If it was my country of origin, I would not be
ashamed to say it. Each nationality is equivalent.
> I'll let you know for the gizmo, I have a couple of friends working in that
> area, maybe they can give me access to the company database.
Thanks.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 9:40 am
From: Merciadri Luca

On May 20, 9:48 pm, "Vale" <V...@fastwebnet.it> wrote:
> You're from Liege,is it?
> I have been working several years around you and I met many Italians, born
> in Belgium but reluctant to define themselves Italians.
> Is it true, they are not and I don't blame at all.
> I'll let you know for the gizmo, I have a couple of friends working in that
> area, maybe they can give me access to the company database.
Nice to hear that you came to Liège. This is a nice place.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Michele Linca: Allstate, Drugs, Prostitution?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7a5f43cd2944281c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 10:04 am
From: Nomen Nescio

The tale of Michele Linca, drug addict, prostitute, HIV patient, Allstate agent and gangster is here:

http://groups.google.sh/group/rec.food.cooking/browse_thread/thread/130f21fcf7deae07

Jupiter, FL is not a safe place. They have bankrupt detectives.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LCD Desktop Monitor Fading to White, then Black
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2c04885c7b46754a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 10:16 am
From: "Dav.p."

Yes, both monitors were bought at the same time, and used roughly
equally. But one monitor started failing over 18 months ago, while
the other just started this month.
---
OK, the contamination doesn't exists then ...
i'm sorry for your bad news.. i would to think to monitoring
the pow.supply outputs and then evaluate if is a power board problem and
which part of it, it is useful to know if want to buy an used or new board or
continue to repair . If i'm not wrong the 12v line powers the inverter that by the
video seems to work well, there is a 5v and nothing more or a 3,3v,
test them, you can also supply 5v from another p.s.u. to have a verify. If 5v is stable
there is maybe a transistor that powers the panel, it makes the on/off function
for st.by mode, i have i Benq with this failed. you can test it, or test the supply pin to the
panel, u need the datasheet of the panel for pinout, it is possible to make
a bypass of this to supply the panel like i did for test.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: opposite of an RF Modulator?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8b592fa97d607ae0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 11:46 am
From: mm

On Thu, 20 May 2010 11:48:59 -0700, UCLAN <nomail@thanks.org> wrote:

>mm wrote:
>
>> Does there exist the opposite of an RF Modulator? Something that will
>> take RF and turn it into digital for a digital tv?
>
>Well, a RF *demodulator* takes analog RF and converts it to analog A/V. A
>A->D converter will convert that to digital.
>
>> Can I convert the analog back to digital for the digital tvs?
>
>A A->D converter will do the trick. $$ for video.
>
>Question: For the digital TVs, why not just use the original digital
>signal?

I don't know. I guess I can. I didnt' think of it. Thanks.

I guess I would have to use a couple spitters to make a route around
the RF modulator, and then I would be running analog and digital on
the same co-ax, right?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 11:48 am
From: mm

On Thu, 20 May 2010 08:05:04 -0400, Rich Webb
<bbew.ar@mapson.nozirev.ten> wrote:

>On Thu, 20 May 2010 01:19:04 -0400, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>[snippety snip]
>>So what will I do when I have one or two digital tvs, but I'm sending
>>analog to all the tvs?
>
>Some (many? most? all?) current generation U.S. flat-screen television
>receivers include both NTST (analog) and ATSC (digital) tuners. The NTSC
>tuners work the same way on the flat-screens as they do for the older,
>CRC-based models, so you may not need to make any changes to your
>distribution system at all.

Well that would be great. I'll keep my eyes open for that.

>>Can I convert the analog back to digital for the digital tvs?
>
>Not easily or cheaply. The consumer-grade market for such a gizmo is
>very small. If you wanted to do the heavy lifting, the specs for each
>are available and it certainly could be done in principle. Some guy with
>a web page has probably already done it but you're not likely to find
>one on the shelf at WalMart.

Okay.

Thanks to you and to Bob, AZ, David, William (even though he thinks
I'm trolling!) Jim, David, Michael, and UCLAN.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 12:19 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> Thanks to you and to Bob, AZ, David, William (even though
> he thinks I'm trolling!) Jim, David, Michael, and UCLAN.

There are some questions that -- to me, anyway -- have such obvious and
simple answers, that it's easy to believe some posts are trolls.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 1:15 pm
From: Jeroni Paul

On 20 Maig, 07:19, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Can I convert the analog back to digital for the digital tvs?

Not easy, a quality real time MPEG coder takes a lot of computing
power and the mass market does not request such device, so for now it
is expensive. However I'm guessing you are thinking for the future
when TVs are no longer equipped with analog tuners. At least a
baseband video input is likely to be available in TVs for a long time
so an easy option would be an external analog tuner. Yes, they exist
and even have remote control just like digital tuners.

However chances are that MPEG coders and CODFM modulators become cheap
enough for domestic use in the future or even DVDs, etc output a
modulated digital RF signal just like old VCRs did with an analog RF
channel. Yet I belive it is (and will be) cheaper to buy a DVD or
other set top box for every TV than to distribute the signal from one.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 9:51 pm
From: UCLAN

mm wrote:

>>> Does there exist the opposite of an RF Modulator? Something that will
>>> take RF and turn it into digital for a digital tv?
>>
>> Well, a RF *demodulator* takes analog RF and converts it to analog A/V. A
>> A->D converter will convert that to digital.
>>
>>> Can I convert the analog back to digital for the digital tvs?
>>
>> A A->D converter will do the trick. $$ for video.
>>
>> Question: For the digital TVs, why not just use the original digital
>> signal?
>
> I don't know. I guess I can. I didnt' think of it. Thanks.
>
> I guess I would have to use a couple spitters to make a route around the RF
> modulator, and then I would be running analog and digital on the same
> co-ax, right?

If you split it off to the digital TVs *before* it goes into the D->A
converter box, then it would be only digital - right?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Bob Parker Anatek Blue ESR Meter
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bba8d6130db676c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 12:36 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

I'll get right on that.
Funny that you should ask, but when doing repairs, I've been in the habit
for years, of checking replacement caps before installing them.
That would include a value, internal leakage and dielectric absorption tests
in addition to testing ESR.

I regularly check new stock as I purchase it, and again before installing
electrolytic caps.

IMO, it's probably best to buy parts like electrolytics from a supplier that
buys direct and has a fairly fast inventory turnover, like DigiKey.

Buying electrolytics from surplus dealers can result in some very old stock.
It seems that old stock is liquidated to sellers/brokers that package them
individually for retail sale and offer them to small/independent parts
distributors, or just sell them in bulk to surplus sellers. Much of the
stock available from the
second or third transaction sources would no longer pass new specification
testing.
They may function in a hobby circuit, but their reliability is likely to be
very low.

There are often date codes on some of the better brands of electrolytics
(the usual thru-hole type with wrappers), so when old date codes on new
parts are encountered, it's time to get a different supplier.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4bf61ee9$0$2372$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
> So have you checked the ESR of the caps in the kit?
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Followup re: USB malfunction ? / Ezbus digital mixer /Ez-usb USB chip
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a3a382fddd16c1f3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 3:51 pm
From: Franc Zabkar

On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:17:20 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> put
finger to keyboard and composed:

>I got back to this today. Saved to disc the existing (corrupted ?) data in
>the serial EEPROM and cut the SDA line to the Ez-usb chip.
>The EZbus mixer is no longer "Becoming Ezbus" and a blank screen.
>But windows recognises a USB device connected and by UVCView/USB view the
>USB is working up to the USB chip , reading
>
> ---===>Device Information<===---
>
>ConnectionStatus:
>Current Config Value: 0x00 -> Device Bus Speed: Full
>Device Address: 0x00
>Open Pipes: 0
>*!*ERROR: No open pipes!
>
> ===>Device Descriptor<===
>bLength: 0x12
>bDescriptorType: 0x01
>bcdUSB: 0x0100
>bDeviceClass: 0xFF -> This is a Vendor Specific Device
>bDeviceSubClass: 0xFF
>bDeviceProtocol: 0xFF
>bMaxPacketSize0: 0x40 = (64) Bytes
>idVendor: 0x0547idProduct:
>0x2131
>bcdDevice: 0x0004
>iManufacturer: 0x00
>iProduct: 0x00
>iSerialNumber: 0x00
>bNumConfigurations: 0x01
>
>ie Cypress VID/PID
>
>Where to now? presumably forcing a pipe somehow

You already know more about USB than I do. :-)

However, I wonder if the data in the serial EEPROM are checksummed, in
which case it may be possible to confirm its integrity.

ISTM that you've at least confirmed that the EZ-USB chip has sanity,
if you weren't already convinced by your scope tests.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 11:49 pm
From: "N_Cook"

Franc Zabkar <fzabkar@iinternode.on.net> wrote in message
news:783ev5dk9104rgolcskn3hh300s4bn1ie8@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 20 May 2010 14:17:20 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> put
> finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >I got back to this today. Saved to disc the existing (corrupted ?) data
in
> >the serial EEPROM and cut the SDA line to the Ez-usb chip.
> >The EZbus mixer is no longer "Becoming Ezbus" and a blank screen.
> >But windows recognises a USB device connected and by UVCView/USB view the
> >USB is working up to the USB chip , reading
> >
> > ---===>Device Information<===---
> >
> >ConnectionStatus:
> >Current Config Value: 0x00 -> Device Bus Speed: Full
> >Device Address: 0x00
> >Open Pipes: 0
> >*!*ERROR: No open pipes!
> >
> > ===>Device Descriptor<===
> >bLength: 0x12
> >bDescriptorType: 0x01
> >bcdUSB: 0x0100
> >bDeviceClass: 0xFF -> This is a Vendor Specific
Device
> >bDeviceSubClass: 0xFF
> >bDeviceProtocol: 0xFF
> >bMaxPacketSize0: 0x40 = (64) Bytes
> >idVendor: 0x0547idProduct:
> >0x2131
> >bcdDevice: 0x0004
> >iManufacturer: 0x00
> >iProduct: 0x00
> >iSerialNumber: 0x00
> >bNumConfigurations: 0x01
> >
> >ie Cypress VID/PID
> >
> >Where to now? presumably forcing a pipe somehow
>
> You already know more about USB than I do. :-)
>
> However, I wonder if the data in the serial EEPROM are checksummed, in
> which case it may be possible to confirm its integrity.
>
> ISTM that you've at least confirmed that the EZ-USB chip has sanity,
> if you weren't already convinced by your scope tests.
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Switching SDA line after 3 seconds still keeps the USB open but wrong
identity for the mixer firmware installer. Not had a chance to connect it up
to a pc but I'm assuming it will not software connect if expecting the mixer
VID/VID/endpoint. When next I have some time I will load the installer.exe
into hex_reader_XVI32 and see if I can swap VID / PID hex-codes to fool it
into thinking it is an EZbus rather than EZusb it is hooked to. Probably
checksummed there but simple enough to try.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Model Sony KDS 60-A2000 no vertical
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b1314e439e2f7a44?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 6:07 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

<stokesbr@cox.net>
>
> Need your help once again group, and this is my own TV. Got the 4 red
> blinks on the power light. Set won't come up. Web search says this
> code is loss of verical. I can't find any info other than this. I
> hoped that this problem would be somewhat common to this particular
> model with a common fix. I don't have the schematic, but will have to
> get it if no more info available about this problem. The set is out of
> warranty and is only about 3 years old. Anyone aware of this as a
> common issue with this set, and the fix? Thanks group.

** There is in fact a huge amount of info on your set on the net - all of it
bad news.

Sony rear projection sets like yours ( using SXRD ) are notorious lemons
with very high failure rates of the "optical block" . A number of class
action law suits against Sony in the USA have been settled or are still in
progress over the matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_X-tal_Reflective_Display

http://sites.google.com/site/sonylcdrptvproblems/

.... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The OLED TV: Is Delusion Finally Transforming Into Reality? - Brian's
Brain | Blog on EDN
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/52675ff5360a9818?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, May 21 2010 7:41 pm
From: bob

http://xrl.in/5exg

bob

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