sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Unlabelled and disconnected mains primary wires - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/827164e09c1645bf?hl=en
* 40Gb Western Digital hard drive - followup - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d11c27dd9c7d80c0?hl=en
* You should think about this deal, Cartier Watches - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4418ca72d706667d?hl=en
* 2 pin vs 4 pin bulb - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/976f61f27bcf629e?hl=en
* See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles. - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fda2aa9fa2e65ed3?hl=en
* DTV decoder repair, capacitor gets too hot - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2a64f4c6ccba41cd?hl=en
* Looking for PS glitch with Tek scope? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ecf659bcc56a1548?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unlabelled and disconnected mains primary wires
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/827164e09c1645bf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 4:19 pm
From: PeterD

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 00:27:06 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"PeterD"
>
>> If it is truely a USA only transformer, it will not have a winding
>> higher than 120 volts! USA makers were not export oriented, and the
>> few export units were typically fitted with different transformers,
>> but the run-of-the-mill domestic production was made with a 120 volt
>> primary (only). Export models were typically setup for 100/120/240
>> volts. (Japan, USA & and other countries with an approximate 120 volt
>> standard, and other countries with an approximate 240 volt standard.)
>
>
>** Japan does not have domestic 120 volt AC power.
>
>The standard domestic voltage is 100 volts and may be as low as 90 volts in
>some places.
>
>The AC frequency varies too, 50Hz and 60 Hz being used in differing parts of
>the country - means that most Japanese made products for domestic use
>are designed to accept either frequency.
>
>
>.... Phil
>
>

Geeze Phil, read... Japan is 100, USA and other countries with
approximately 120 volts, and still other countries with 240 volts.
Completely clear to everyone else...

OK, for you:

>>(Japan at 100 volts, USA & and other countries with an approximate 120 volt
>> standard, and other countries with an approximate 240 volt standard.)

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:14 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"PeterDope"
>
> "Phil Allison"
>>
>> Export models were typically setup for 100/120/240 volts (Japan, USA
>> & and other countries with an approximate 120 volt standard, and other
>> countries with an approximate 240 volt standard.)
>>
>
>>** Japan does not have domestic 120 volt AC power.
>>
>>The standard domestic voltage is 100 volts and may be as low as 90 volts
>>in
>>some places.
>>
>>The AC frequency varies too, 50Hz and 60 Hz being used in differing parts
>>of
>>the country - means that most Japanese made products for domestic use
>>are designed to accept either frequency.
>>
>
> Geeze Phil, read...

** What I read was misleading and * needed correction*.

It is a very common myth that Japan has 120 volt AC, 60Hz power ( like the
USA) when it does NOT !!

Your post repeated that myth.

Cos of eBay, second hand Japanese local market electronics is now being sold
to folk in all parts of the world to use - most of whom mistakenly think
that it can be used on 120 volts AC or with a 240 to 120 volts step down
tranny.

.... Phil

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 12:27 am
From: "N_Cook"

Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:hu6geg$qkj$1@reader1.panix.com...
> N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> > About year 1999, USA make, for export
> > In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest
0.1
> > ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
> > Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced
font)
> >
> > --- A B C D E
> > A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
> > B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
> > C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
> > D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
> > E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---
> >
> >
> > Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
> > what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
> > Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?
>
> you never mentioned what you're even talking about, or what it's from.
>
> Assuming it's something like an "international" linear power supply, there
would be
> windings for 100, 120 220 and 240 volts based off a combination of
terminals. US made
> transformers for domestic only use would generally max out at 3 or 4
terminals for
> 120/240 use.
>
> here's a diagram of how these international transformers work:
>
>
http://www.slpower.com/Upload/Technical/20070404102642455201154_41-32512F_ML
_Series.pdf

That transformer type is the 2 separate primaries, not the subject of this
thread.
Does anyone have the generic name for these wasteful construction made in or
for USA , for export kit ? the ones with a (electrically) continuous single
primary winding

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 12:50 am
From: Grant

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 08:27:03 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

>Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
>news:hu6geg$qkj$1@reader1.panix.com...
>> N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>> > About year 1999, USA make, for export
>> > In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest
>0.1
>> > ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
>> > Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced
>font)
>> >
>> > --- A B C D E
>> > A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
>> > B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
>> > C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
>> > D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
>> > E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---
>> >
>> >
>> > Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
>> > what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
>> > Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?
>>
>> you never mentioned what you're even talking about, or what it's from.
>>
>> Assuming it's something like an "international" linear power supply, there
>would be
>> windings for 100, 120 220 and 240 volts based off a combination of
>terminals. US made
>> transformers for domestic only use would generally max out at 3 or 4
>terminals for
>> 120/240 use.
>>
>> here's a diagram of how these international transformers work:
>>
>>
>http://www.slpower.com/Upload/Technical/20070404102642455201154_41-32512F_ML
>_Series.pdf
>
>
>That transformer type is the 2 separate primaries, not the subject of this
>thread.
>Does anyone have the generic name for these wasteful construction made in or
>for USA , for export kit ? the ones with a (electrically) continuous single
>primary winding
>
Autotransformer.

What results from driving the secondary with a low voltage?

Grant.
--
http://bugs.id.au/

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 1:12 am
From: "N_Cook"

Grant <omg@grrr.id.au> wrote in message
news:tkne06ltbli2a5aij6qc112iti0ed8tntp@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 08:27:03 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Cydrome Leader <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
> >news:hu6geg$qkj$1@reader1.panix.com...
> >> N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> >> > About year 1999, USA make, for export
> >> > In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest
> >0.1
> >> > ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
> >> > Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced
> >font)
> >> >
> >> > --- A B C D E
> >> > A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
> >> > B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
> >> > C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
> >> > D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
> >> > E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
> >> > what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
> >> > Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?
> >>
> >> you never mentioned what you're even talking about, or what it's from.
> >>
> >> Assuming it's something like an "international" linear power supply,
there
> >would be
> >> windings for 100, 120 220 and 240 volts based off a combination of
> >terminals. US made
> >> transformers for domestic only use would generally max out at 3 or 4
> >terminals for
> >> 120/240 use.
> >>
> >> here's a diagram of how these international transformers work:
> >>
> >>
>
>http://www.slpower.com/Upload/Technical/20070404102642455201154_41-32512F_M
L
> >_Series.pdf
> >
> >
> >That transformer type is the 2 separate primaries, not the subject of
this
> >thread.
> >Does anyone have the generic name for these wasteful construction made in
or
> >for USA , for export kit ? the ones with a (electrically) continuous
single
> >primary winding
> >
> Autotransformer.
>
> What results from driving the secondary with a low voltage?
>
> Grant.
> --
> http://bugs.id.au/

My understanding of the term autotransformer is primary and secondary
electrically continuous, ie no electrical isolation

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 40Gb Western Digital hard drive - followup
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d11c27dd9c7d80c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 5:43 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 12:24:19 -0700 (PDT), mike
<mlightner@survivormail.com> wrote:

>I'd like to compare notes
>on using mhdd, but I didn't take any notes, so probably would get a
>bunch of stuff wrong if I tried to recollect correctly;

We'll, I wouldn't mind, but there's a problem. I don't keep any
obviously defective drives and only save the paperwork on the good
drives. The ones in between are kinda arbitrary. I'll keep results
on the newer and better drives, but not on the older marginal junk.
It's really not that much of a time burner. I have several test
machines and boards, and usually let them run overnight.

>However, after getting familar with the program, I do
>feel that it does a pretty good job of pointing out a hopeless drive.

My rule-of-thumb is that if the diagnostic says it's bad, it's almost
certainly bad. If the diagnostic says it's good, it might be, but
might also be bad due to some reason that wasn't obvious or tested. I
once tested a drive (with a different program) that had obvious
bearing spin (very noisy), but tested good.

>On a slightly different subject, when I got curious about the
>definition of 'low-level format', I did some googling on the subject
>and checked out the Wikipedia for a bit and now I don't know whether I
>even did any low-level formatting in the last few days, though I do
>know that I used to in the early 80's - oh, well I guess that's
>"progress' for ya.

Low level format is usually done by the factory, and never again. It's
places the sector numbers and servo tracks on the platter. There are
programs that plug into the diagnstic port of the drive that will
recreate the sector numbers, bios preload area, diagnostic tracks, and
landing zone allocation, but not the servo tracks. If the drive seems
to require a new primary format, give up now.

Hint: I have a 15 year old Conner CP1060S 1GB drive sitting in my SCO
Unix 3.2v4.2 server. It's been running continuously since about
1995(?). Three mother boards (486DX2/66), one video card, and one
Wangtek tape controller card have blown up during this time. The
secret to long HD life is leave it running all the time and protect it
from power and static electricity glitches. I have other servers that
have done almost as well, but this one is my oldest.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 5:59 pm
From: AZ Nomad

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:43:41 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:
>Hint: I have a 15 year old Conner CP1060S 1GB drive sitting in my SCO
>Unix 3.2v4.2 server. It's been running continuously since about
>1995(?). Three mother boards (486DX2/66), one video card, and one
>Wangtek tape controller card have blown up during this time. The
>secret to long HD life is leave it running all the time and protect it
>from power and static electricity glitches. ...

ditto for heat.

I've had setups where I've had drives run hot; however I know they can't be
expected to last 4 years under such conditions and that they not for storing
anything of value. For example, I have 3 WD raptors in a raid-0 configuration
burning away at 50-55 degC in my desktop. I don't give a shit because all they
have on them is the OS, applications, and temporary video work files. Anything
of value is on a seperate file server which is designed for the task and
runs very cool with both onsite and offsite backups.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 7:22 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

mike wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> > Doesn't it have at least one empty slot where you can install a
> > better video card? You can use multiple drives without installing a
> > RAID driver. Don't pitch it out, if it works.
>
> Oh, no, I'd never pitch anything out, (unless maybe I tripped over it
> and broke a toe or somethin')
>
> >Play with it. Install a
> > version of Linux or use it for a test bed computer. You can remove the
> > rack mount brackets on a lot of server cases and use them as a big
> > desktop computer, or you can use some scrap lumber an made a crude rack
> > for it.
>
> I guess that the main obstacle is I don't know anything about scsi;
> there are no drives in the drive bay, and there's a scsi bus but I
> don't know jack about scsi. I've got a 2.1 Gb scsi drive, and some
> kind of scsi controller card, but just haven't spent much time looking
> into it yet.
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Then stick an IDE or SATA controller card in there. They don't have
to run SCSI drives. You may have to change some settings in the BIOS,
but that isn't difficult.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 1:15 am
From: "Michael Kennedy"

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6b2dncCN0OpBjJrRnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> mike wrote:
>>
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>
>> > Doesn't it have at least one empty slot where you can install a
>> > better video card? You can use multiple drives without installing a
>> > RAID driver. Don't pitch it out, if it works.
>>
>> Oh, no, I'd never pitch anything out, (unless maybe I tripped over it
>> and broke a toe or somethin')
>>
>> >Play with it. Install a
>> > version of Linux or use it for a test bed computer. You can remove the
>> > rack mount brackets on a lot of server cases and use them as a big
>> > desktop computer, or you can use some scrap lumber an made a crude rack
>> > for it.
>>
>> I guess that the main obstacle is I don't know anything about scsi;
>> there are no drives in the drive bay, and there's a scsi bus but I
>> don't know jack about scsi. I've got a 2.1 Gb scsi drive, and some
>> kind of scsi controller card, but just haven't spent much time looking
>> into it yet.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mike
>
>
> Then stick an IDE or SATA controller card in there. They don't have
> to run SCSI drives. You may have to change some settings in the BIOS,
> but that isn't difficult.

Or Just throw a scsi drive in there and play around with it. They're not
that complicated. Don't run away from something just because you don't know
how it works. Use it as an opportunity to broden your knowledge.

Mike

==============================================================================
TOPIC: You should think about this deal, Cartier Watches
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4418ca72d706667d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, May 25 2010 8:21 pm
From: "amy"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2 pin vs 4 pin bulb
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/976f61f27bcf629e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 5:53 pm
From: "don"

What are the advantages of a 4pin vs a 2pin bulb..... the manufacturer of my
task light used a 2 pin bulb but the socket is made to accept a 4 pin......
Also..... the socket wire connections are of the type Leviton as seen in
this photo.....
http://bplusl.com/html/nu6-1128eol.htm

I am trying to replace the ballast.... does anyone know how to unhook the
wires from this lamp holder?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fda2aa9fa2e65ed3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:07 pm
From: KAJOL

See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles.
at http://uknews.tk

Due to high sex content,i have hidden the videos in an image. in that
website on left side below search box click on image and watch
videos in all angles.please dont tell to anyone.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV decoder repair, capacitor gets too hot
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2a64f4c6ccba41cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:42 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeroni Paul"

> "Frank Zabcar"
>
> The current in an ideal capacitor is given by ...
>
> I = C x dV/dt
>
> Can you use this to estimate the current draw?
>

I tried this taking only the fall ramp:
dV = 0,781 V
dt = 4,72 us
C = 1000 uF

It results in 165 A. I may have done something wrong but I think the
capacitor ESR may play a role here as it causes an increase of dV not
reflected at I.

** Sure does !!

An **ideal** 1000uF cap has an impedance of under 1 milliohm at 200kHz -
in reality no such beast exists so the simple formula above fails
hopelessly.

A standard grade 16 volt, 1000uF cap has an ESR of around 200 milliohms ( at
high frequencies) while a low ESR type has about 20 - 30 milliohms and both
have series inductance that amounts to 20 milliohms at 200kHz.

Your 1000uF cap is getting hot cos it has way too much ESR !!!

Get a low ESR type, rated to handle 2 amps or more of ripple.

The Panasonic FM series 16V, 1000uF cap has a rated ESR of 19 milliohms and
a ripple current rating of 2.2 amps.

Note:

The ESR of electros goes DOWN when the cap gets hot - by as much as a
factor of 5.

Means cheap, high ESR electros can be made to do the job in a SMPS at the
expense of having a very short life.

.... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Looking for PS glitch with Tek scope?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ecf659bcc56a1548?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jun 3 2010 1:18 am
From: Gary Walters

I have a machine in that I suspect the PS (+24vdc) is sagging under load
which is causing all kind of havoc with the digital circuits. The load is
brief, so I've not been able to capture it with a DMM.

I borrowed a Tek TDS410 digitizing scope. It's quite complex (to me, anyway)
and I'm not sure how to view the PS such that I can capture a sagging output.

I've used a 465 decades ago and a 2467 more recently, but the digitizing
scopes are new to me.

There's all kinds of capture modes (sample; peak detect; envelope; average),
measurement modes (high; low; max; min; 16 others), and trigger modes (auto;
normal; rising edge; falling edge).

I presume that I set the trigger just below the output voltage (ie, 11.80v),
falling edge, and activate the load. Beyond that, it's a mystery to me.

The site is a bit of a drive, so I've been practicing in my shop with a
stand-alone PS.

I've looked on-line for an operator's guide, but all I've been able to find
is a service manual (TDS410/420/460) which has not much in the way of setup
and operation.

Any suggestions regarding the best combination of features to use for this
simple task would be most appreciated.

Thanks.
GW

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