sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Unlabelled and disconnected mains primary wires - 9 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/827164e09c1645bf?hl=en
* Cheap GUCCI Sandal Coach Sandal Dior Sandal Versace Sandal Wholesale free
shipping (paypal payment)<www.24hoursneakers.com> - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/020f2a9a066cad3d?hl=en
* Rubber keyboard contact repair - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/61db4df7250c5d17?hl=en
* Lead free solder - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/23523e78c578fbf8?hl=en
* ONLINE AIRLINES JOBS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1cacf267443620e7?hl=en
* See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles. - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fda2aa9fa2e65ed3?hl=en
* 40Gb Western Digital hard drive - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d11c27dd9c7d80c0?hl=en
* DTV decoder repair, capacitor gets too hot - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2a64f4c6ccba41cd?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unlabelled and disconnected mains primary wires
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/827164e09c1645bf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 12:46 am
From: "N_Cook"

Gerard Bok <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:4c054944.6350870@News.Individual.NET...
> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 14:12:36 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >Gerard Bok <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
> >news:4c04ef34.3464695@News.Individual.NET...
> >> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 10:37:06 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >About year 1999, USA make, for export
> >> >In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest
0.1
> >> >ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
> >> >Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced
> >font)
> >> >
> >> >--- A B C D E
> >> >A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
> >> >B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
> >> >C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
> >> >D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
> >> >E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
> >> >what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
> >> >Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?
> >>
> >> Assuming the beast also has a secundary, --possably even marked
> >> with a voltage-- I would apply that voltage (from another
> >> transformer) and measure the voltages on the primary terminals.
>
> >I hadn't actually thought of that but problem is which crosslink/s? for
110
> >or 130 V operation.
>
> Crosslinks ?
> From your original message I read that all primary connections
> connect to one continuous winding.
>
> Transformers designed for minimal copper use contain 2 identical
> sets of windings. Those get connected in parallel for use on 115
> volt and in series for 230 Volt.
>
> As long as there is DC continuity I wouldn't attempt any cross
> wiring ;-)
>
> --
> Kind regards,
> Gerard Bok

This is what was confusing me , I don't often come across USA transformers ,
they must have plenty of copper to waste and unnecessarily larger
transformers. Only ever seem to see 2 separate primaries in the UK , in the
main, maybe some 10 or 20 V taps in addition.
For this continuous one and generally for this sort of mains transformer.
The"240V" ends cannot be returned to form one 110V connection and a mid
point the other 110V connection for that option, as counter winding sense
for the two "halves" and so no secondary volts.
So part of the winding wasted and the 110V
section of primary perhaps a larger gauge. I suppose measuring inductance
may have helped

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 4:48 am
From: PeterD

On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 08:46:56 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

>Gerard Bok <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
>news:4c054944.6350870@News.Individual.NET...
>> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 14:12:36 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Gerard Bok <bok118@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
>> >news:4c04ef34.3464695@News.Individual.NET...
>> >> On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 10:37:06 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >About year 1999, USA make, for export
>> >> >In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest
>0.1
>> >> >ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
>> >> >Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced
>> >font)
>> >> >
>> >> >--- A B C D E
>> >> >A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
>> >> >B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
>> >> >C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
>> >> >D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
>> >> >E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
>> >> >what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
>> >> >Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?
>> >>
>> >> Assuming the beast also has a secundary, --possably even marked
>> >> with a voltage-- I would apply that voltage (from another
>> >> transformer) and measure the voltages on the primary terminals.
>>
>> >I hadn't actually thought of that but problem is which crosslink/s? for
>110
>> >or 130 V operation.
>>
>> Crosslinks ?
>> From your original message I read that all primary connections
>> connect to one continuous winding.
>>
>> Transformers designed for minimal copper use contain 2 identical
>> sets of windings. Those get connected in parallel for use on 115
>> volt and in series for 230 Volt.
>>
>> As long as there is DC continuity I wouldn't attempt any cross
>> wiring ;-)
>>
>> --
>> Kind regards,
>> Gerard Bok
>
>This is what was confusing me , I don't often come across USA transformers ,

If it is truely a USA only transformer, it will not have a winding
higher than 120 volts! USA makers were not export oriented, and the
few export units were typically fitted with different transformers,
but the run-of-the-mill domestic production was made with a 120 volt
primary (only). Export models were typically setup for 100/120/240
volts. (Japan, USA & and other countries with an approximate 120 volt
standard, and other countries with an approximate 240 volt standard.)

>they must have plenty of copper to waste and unnecessarily larger
>transformers.

Makers were (and still are) incredibly cheap, and will resort to all
kninds of tricks to save a penny. I don't see many (if any) who will
waste money on copper that will (in their opinion) never be used.

>Only ever seem to see 2 separate primaries in the UK , in the
>main, maybe some 10 or 20 V taps in addition.
>For this continuous one and generally for this sort of mains transformer.
>The"240V" ends cannot be returned to form one 110V connection and a mid
>point the other 110V connection for that option, as counter winding sense
>for the two "halves" and so no secondary volts.
>So part of the winding wasted and the 110V
>section of primary perhaps a larger gauge. I suppose measuring inductance
>may have helped
>

About the best thing would be to measure the primary volts while
powering the secondary with its rated voltage. However, I suspect you
don't know the secondary specifications either, so that is difficult.

I'd probably look at the secondary and give it a known, low voltage
(say 6 v AC) and measure the ratio of the primary voltages. That would
be better than static DC resistance measurements which can easily be
affected by inductance and wire gauge.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 4:50 am
From: PeterD

On Wed, 2 Jun 2010 15:57:16 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>
><PlainBill47@yahoo.com>
>
>>
>> But a better way to look at is is the increments
>>
>> A-E = winding a = 1.5
>> E-C = winding b = 7.0
>> C-B = winding c = 0.7
>> B-D = winding d = 3.3
>
>
>** OK - let's assume two gauges of wire ARE being used and the 3.3 ohm
>tapping B-D is 100V for Japan.
>
>Then by ratio of resistance, the 0.7 ohm tapping C-B is 20 volts making C-D
>120 volts for the USA etc.
>
>Similarly, E-C is another 100 volt tapping ( using thinner wire) making E-D
>220 volts for Europe.
>
>Again, A-E is another 20 volt tapping making the whole winding 240 volts.
>
>
>.... Phil
>
>
>

Which makes sense!

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 6:44 am
From: "N_Cook"

I cannot see what the economic argument is in wasting copper , weight and
space. Both methods require a break in winding the primary. The 2 separate
coil system requiring a break and a pair of tails coming off. The continuous
system probably requires a break in gauge of wire and only one tail but 3
dissimilar wires joint at that point - surely not a cheaper option.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 7:27 am
From: "Phil Allison"

"PeterD"

> If it is truely a USA only transformer, it will not have a winding
> higher than 120 volts! USA makers were not export oriented, and the
> few export units were typically fitted with different transformers,
> but the run-of-the-mill domestic production was made with a 120 volt
> primary (only). Export models were typically setup for 100/120/240
> volts. (Japan, USA & and other countries with an approximate 120 volt
> standard, and other countries with an approximate 240 volt standard.)

** Japan does not have domestic 120 volt AC power.

The standard domestic voltage is 100 volts and may be as low as 90 volts in
some places.

The AC frequency varies too, 50Hz and 60 Hz being used in differing parts of
the country - means that most Japanese made products for domestic use
are designed to accept either frequency.

.... Phil

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 7:56 am
From: "Phil Allison"

"Nutcase Kook is So Full of Shit "

> This is what was confusing me , I don't often come across USA transformers
> ,
> they must have plenty of copper to waste and unnecessarily larger
> transformers. Only ever seem to see 2 separate primaries in the UK , in
> the
> main, maybe some 10 or 20 V taps in addition.

** Wot a load of utter bollocks.

Most audio amps made in the UK between the mid 1960s and late 1990s had
multi-voltage, single winding AC transformers.

Check any old schem from Marshall, Vox or Sugden etc, et alia.

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/JES/A21series2/A21series2.html

http://www.schematicheaven.com/marshallamps/jcm800_lead_mstvol_50w_2204.pdf

http://www.schematicheaven.com/voxamps/ac301960.pdf

http://www.schematicheaven.com/voxamps/ac151960.pdf

.... Phil

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 12:36 pm
From: "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net"

On Jun 1, 4:37 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> About year 1999, USA make, for export
> In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest 0.1
> ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
> Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced font)
>
> --- A    B    C    D     E
> A  ---  9.2  8.5  12.5  1.5
> B  9.2  ---  0.6  3.6   7.6
> C  8.5  0.6  ---  4.2   7.6
> D 12.5  3.6  4.2  ---   11.1
> E  1.5  7.6  7.6  11.1   ---
>
> Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
> what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
> Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?

Do you know the approximate secondary voltage? If yes. apply that
voltage to the secondary using a variac or some other transformer.
Then measure the various primary voltages. I have done that many
times when all else fails and I didn't want to take a chance on frying
the transformer. Should work just as well east of the big pond as on
the west side.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 1:54 pm
From: Cydrome Leader

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> About year 1999, USA make, for export
> In line , not 2 or more separate primary windings, DC ohms to nearest 0.1
> ohm. I'm assuming same gauge wire throughout
> Labelled by me as A,B,C,D,E crossplot (message souce maybe equispaced font)
>
> --- A B C D E
> A --- 9.2 8.5 12.5 1.5
> B 9.2 --- 0.6 3.6 7.6
> C 8.5 0.6 --- 4.2 7.6
> D 12.5 3.6 4.2 --- 11.1
> E 1.5 7.6 7.6 11.1 ---
>
>
> Would D-E / D-A be 220/240Vac or 230/250V ac?
> what would likely be the 110 or 130V interconnctions option ?
> Other than checking using a variac , any other tips ?

you never mentioned what you're even talking about, or what it's from.

Assuming it's something like an "international" linear power supply, there would be
windings for 100, 120 220 and 240 volts based off a combination of terminals. US made
transformers for domestic only use would generally max out at 3 or 4 terminals for
120/240 use.

here's a diagram of how these international transformers work:

http://www.slpower.com/Upload/Technical/20070404102642455201154_41-32512F_ML_Series.pdf

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 4:19 pm
From: PeterD

On Thu, 3 Jun 2010 00:27:06 +1000, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>
>"PeterD"
>
>> If it is truely a USA only transformer, it will not have a winding
>> higher than 120 volts! USA makers were not export oriented, and the
>> few export units were typically fitted with different transformers,
>> but the run-of-the-mill domestic production was made with a 120 volt
>> primary (only). Export models were typically setup for 100/120/240
>> volts. (Japan, USA & and other countries with an approximate 120 volt
>> standard, and other countries with an approximate 240 volt standard.)
>
>
>** Japan does not have domestic 120 volt AC power.
>
>The standard domestic voltage is 100 volts and may be as low as 90 volts in
>some places.
>
>The AC frequency varies too, 50Hz and 60 Hz being used in differing parts of
>the country - means that most Japanese made products for domestic use
>are designed to accept either frequency.
>
>
>.... Phil
>
>

Geeze Phil, read... Japan is 100, USA and other countries with
approximately 120 volts, and still other countries with 240 volts.
Completely clear to everyone else...

OK, for you:

>>(Japan at 100 volts, USA & and other countries with an approximate 120 volt
>> standard, and other countries with an approximate 240 volt standard.)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheap GUCCI Sandal Coach Sandal Dior Sandal Versace Sandal Wholesale
free shipping (paypal payment)<www.24hoursneakers.com>
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/020f2a9a066cad3d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 3:58 am
From: huang

Are you searching for good quality and low price products?our company
want to be you reliable supplier in china,we offer brand
shoes,bags,jeans,clothes,we accept a variety of payment
methods .Convenient for you the more you order the better price for
you! if you interested in our goods,pls don't hestate to contact me
Our website (http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
◥█▄▃▁
...◥█☆█▅▄▃▁▁▁▁▁▁▁▃▄▅︿@︿▅▄▁
〓▇████Ship Wholesaler█████████████▅▄▃▁▁
〓〓〓█████████████
UGG Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
Dior Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
Burberry Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
D&G Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
Fendi Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
GUCCI Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
Chanel Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
LV Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
Versace Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
Coach Sandal Wholesale(http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)
ED hardy Sandal (http://www.24hoursneakers.com/)
(PayPal Payment)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rubber keyboard contact repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/61db4df7250c5d17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 4:36 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"

Hi,

anyone geting good results rejuvenating worn keyboard contacts? I'm
talking the large ones you find on music keyboards, drum machines etc.
Particularly ones where you can't buy the contact rubbers any more ;)

I once bought some liquid paint on stuff specifically designed to do this,
it was VERY expensive and didn't work.

I am in the UK if that makes a difference.

Cheers,

Gareth.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 4:51 am
From: "N_Cook"

Gareth Magennis <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:wJ-dnQh7OIbG35vRnZ2dnUVZ7tGdnZ2d@bt.com...
> Hi,
>
> anyone geting good results rejuvenating worn keyboard contacts? I'm
> talking the large ones you find on music keyboards, drum machines etc.
> Particularly ones where you can't buy the contact rubbers any more ;)
>
> I once bought some liquid paint on stuff specifically designed to do this,
> it was VERY expensive and didn't work.
>
> I am in the UK if that makes a difference.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Gareth.
>
>

Years ago you should have started collecting the contact sheets from
scrapped (due to redundency rather than worn out) zappers etc. Then a matter
of cut and paste and some copydex or similar to keep in place. Legends won;t
match but a small price to pay for continued functionality for someone who
is so familiar with the kit he does not need the legends anyway

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 5:23 am
From: Meat Plow

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:36:57 +0100, Gareth Magennis ǝʇoɹʍ:

> Hi,
>
> anyone geting good results rejuvenating worn keyboard contacts? I'm
> talking the large ones you find on music keyboards, drum machines etc.
> Particularly ones where you can't buy the contact rubbers any more ;)
>
> I once bought some liquid paint on stuff specifically designed to do
> this, it was VERY expensive and didn't work.
>
> I am in the UK if that makes a difference.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Gareth.

I find it makes more sense to buy a new keyboard these days.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 9:12 am
From: "ian field"

"Meat Plow" <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.06.02.12.24.08@gmail.com...
> On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:36:57 +0100, Gareth Magennis ??o??:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> anyone geting good results rejuvenating worn keyboard contacts? I'm
>> talking the large ones you find on music keyboards, drum machines etc.
>> Particularly ones where you can't buy the contact rubbers any more ;)
>>
>> I once bought some liquid paint on stuff specifically designed to do
>> this, it was VERY expensive and didn't work.
>>
>> I am in the UK if that makes a difference.
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Gareth.
>
> I find it makes more sense to buy a new keyboard these days.

I don't think the OP is talking about generic PC stuff.

The conductive rubber pads can be pared off any scrap keypad that has a
rubber button inlay, the best adhesive is RTV silicone rubber sealant, this
is sold in many guises - silicone basth sealant or "instant gasket" are a
couple of examples.

Definately DO NOT use copydex it smells evil and as an adhesive isn't worth
the space it takes up in the junkbox.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:02 am
From: Meat Plow

On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 17:12:15 +0100, ian field ǝʇoɹʍ:

> "Meat Plow" <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2010.06.02.12.24.08@gmail.com...
>> On Wed, 02 Jun 2010 12:36:57 +0100, Gareth Magennis ??o??:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> anyone geting good results rejuvenating worn keyboard contacts? I'm
>>> talking the large ones you find on music keyboards, drum machines etc.
>>> Particularly ones where you can't buy the contact rubbers any more ;)
>>>
>>> I once bought some liquid paint on stuff specifically designed to do
>>> this, it was VERY expensive and didn't work.
>>>
>>> I am in the UK if that makes a difference.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>> Gareth.
>>
>> I find it makes more sense to buy a new keyboard these days.
>
> I don't think the OP is talking about generic PC stuff.
>
> The conductive rubber pads can be pared off any scrap keypad that has a
> rubber button inlay, the best adhesive is RTV silicone rubber sealant,
> this is sold in many guises - silicone basth sealant or "instant gasket"
> are a couple of examples.
>
> Definately DO NOT use copydex it smells evil and as an adhesive isn't
> worth the space it takes up in the junkbox.

Damn I didn't read that very well one did I?

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:14 am
From: Sjouke Burry

Gareth Magennis wrote:
> Hi,
>
> anyone geting good results rejuvenating worn keyboard contacts? I'm
> talking the large ones you find on music keyboards, drum machines etc.
> Particularly ones where you can't buy the contact rubbers any more ;)
>
> I once bought some liquid paint on stuff specifically designed to do this,
> it was VERY expensive and didn't work.
>
> I am in the UK if that makes a difference.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Gareth.
>
>
Buy a cheap calculator or use a damaged keyboard to furnish
conductive pieces for repair.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lead free solder
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/23523e78c578fbf8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 9:23 am
From: "ian field"

"Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
news:hu4cl4$are$1@reader1.panix.com...
> ian field <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Cydrome Leader" <presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
>> news:hu3agh$125$3@reader1.panix.com...
>>> AZ Nomad <aznomad.3@premoveobthisox.com> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 31 May 2010 10:50:32 +0100, Arfa Daily
>>>> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"ian field" <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:4wyMn.40637$3B3.19030@hurricane...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:ae548bae-555d-4af8-932b-a3d787ea99c0@t14g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> On May 26, 8:24 pm, AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 26 May 2010 08:47:05 -0700, Smitty Two
>>>>>>> <prestwh...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >In article
>>>>>>> ><slrnhvqfec.atf.aznoma...@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>,
>>>>>>> > AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
>>>>>>> >> On Wed, 26 May 2010 05:25:21 -0700 (PDT), sparky
>>>>>>> >> <sparky...@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> >Lead free solder was invented by the government since they knew
>>>>>>> >> >it
>>>>>>> >> >would create more jobs (taxes) as the lead free solder caused
>>>>>>> >> >trouble
>>>>>>> >> >and things were thrown out instead of being repaired.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> surface mount, package pin densities, and labor costs have
>>>>>>> >> guaranteed
>>>>>>> >> that almost nothing is repaired beyond the board level making
>>>>>>> >> solder
>>>>>>> >> type
>>>>>>> >> irrelevent. Even board level repairs are unlikely when the cost
>>>>>>> >> of
>>>>>>> >> repairing an item is far higher than its replacement cost.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> Leadfree solder was created not to cause electronics be discarded
>>>>>>> >> instead of repaired, but *because* electronics were being
>>>>>>> >> discarded
>>>>>>> >> in
>>>>>>> >> great numbers. Even for items that can be repaired, they
>>>>>>> >> frequently
>>>>>>> >> aren't repaired because anything older than about 18 months is
>>>>>>> >> obsolete in the mind of the consumer.
>>>>>>> >Which is why, to stray completely off-topic, we should replace
>>>>>>> >income
>>>>>>> >tax with a national sales tax. Let the 95% of the masses who are
>>>>>>> >compulsive consumers foot the bill.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sorry. I didn't know I was responsding to a lunatic.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry too but I think that these "lunatics" make a whole lot of
>>>>>> sense.
>>>>>> I am one of the 5 percent who tries not to purchase anything new
>>>>>> today
>>>>>> because unfortunately "new" has become synonomous with "crap". Nobody
>>>>>> wants you to repair anything anymore. Either the parts are so
>>>>>> ridiculously expensive or they're just not available. I stocked up on
>>>>>> lead solder a long time ago so that I'll be able to repair all my
>>>>>> older reliable "hazardous" electronics well into the future, until
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> government makes all repair parts unavailable or comes into my house
>>>>>> with a search warrant for lead based solder that is. So for the time
>>>>>> being, fuck them and the horse their "stimulus package" rode in on.
>>>>>> BTW how is the US military handling this reliability problem? They
>>>>>> wouldn't usually care too much about a small item like lead
>>>>>> poisoning...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ****************
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fuckwits who introduced the legislation are well aware that
>>>>>> equipment
>>>>>> made with lead free solder isn't safe, so aerospace, automotive,
>>>>>> military
>>>>>> and medical are exempt.
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Amen to that ...
>>>>
>>>> Is there a big problem with consumers buying cheap aerospace,
>>>> automotive, military or medical electronics and filling the landfills
>>>> with them?
>>>
>>> is there really a big problem with lead from electronics pouring out of
>>> landfills?
>>>
>>> I doubt it. the whole rohs thing and europeans are just stupid.
>>
>> Only insofar as we obey the braindead wankers in Brussels!
>
> Ever been to brussels?
>
> It's one of the most dirty run down cities I've ever seen.
>
> They also can't line up the train platforms with any of the trains either.
> It's really sad.

Pretty much says it all, that!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:01 am
From: klem kedidelhopper

On Jun 2, 12:23 pm, "ian field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> "Cydrome Leader" <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hu4cl4$are$1@reader1.panix.com...
>
>
>
> > ian field <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >> "Cydrome Leader" <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote in message
> >>news:hu3agh$125$3@reader1.panix.com...
> >>> AZ Nomad <aznoma...@premoveobthisox.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 31 May 2010 10:50:32 +0100, Arfa Daily
> >>>> <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com>
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>"ian field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>news:4wyMn.40637$3B3.19030@hurricane...
>
> >>>>>> "klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:ae548bae-555d-4af8-932b-a3d787ea99c0@t14g2000prm.googlegroups.com...
> >>>>>> On May 26, 8:24 pm, AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Wed, 26 May 2010 08:47:05 -0700, Smitty Two
> >>>>>>> <prestwh...@earthlink.net>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> >In article
> >>>>>>> ><slrnhvqfec.atf.aznoma...@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net>,
> >>>>>>> > AZ Nomad <aznoma...@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote:
> >>>>>>> >> On Wed, 26 May 2010 05:25:21 -0700 (PDT), sparky
> >>>>>>> >> <sparky...@yahoo.com>
> >>>>>>> >> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> >> >Lead free solder was invented by the government since they knew
> >>>>>>> >> >it
> >>>>>>> >> >would create more jobs (taxes) as the lead free solder caused
> >>>>>>> >> >trouble
> >>>>>>> >> >and things were thrown out instead of being repaired.
>
> >>>>>>> >> surface mount, package pin densities, and labor costs have
> >>>>>>> >> guaranteed
> >>>>>>> >> that almost nothing is repaired beyond the board level making
> >>>>>>> >> solder
> >>>>>>> >> type
> >>>>>>> >> irrelevent. Even board level repairs are unlikely when the cost
> >>>>>>> >> of
> >>>>>>> >> repairing an item is far higher than its replacement cost.
>
> >>>>>>> >> Leadfree solder was created not to cause electronics be discarded
> >>>>>>> >> instead of repaired, but *because* electronics were being
> >>>>>>> >> discarded
> >>>>>>> >> in
> >>>>>>> >> great numbers. Even for items that can be repaired, they
> >>>>>>> >> frequently
> >>>>>>> >> aren't repaired because anything older than about 18 months is
> >>>>>>> >> obsolete in the mind of the consumer.
> >>>>>>> >Which is why, to stray completely off-topic, we should replace
> >>>>>>> >income
> >>>>>>> >tax with a national sales tax. Let the 95% of the masses who are
> >>>>>>> >compulsive consumers foot the bill.
>
> >>>>>>> Sorry. I didn't know I was responsding to a lunatic.
>
> >>>>>> Sorry too but I think that these "lunatics" make a whole lot of
> >>>>>> sense.
> >>>>>> I am one of the 5 percent who tries not to purchase anything new
> >>>>>> today
> >>>>>> because unfortunately "new" has become synonomous with "crap". Nobody
> >>>>>> wants you to repair anything anymore. Either the parts are so
> >>>>>> ridiculously expensive or they're just not available. I stocked up on
> >>>>>> lead solder a long time ago so that I'll be able to repair all my
> >>>>>> older reliable "hazardous" electronics well into the future, until
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>> government makes all repair parts unavailable or comes into my house
> >>>>>> with a search warrant for lead based solder that is. So for the time
> >>>>>> being, fuck them and the horse their "stimulus package" rode in on.
> >>>>>> BTW how is the US military handling this reliability problem? They
> >>>>>> wouldn't usually care too much about a small item like lead
> >>>>>> poisoning...
>
> >>>>>> ****************
>
> >>>>>> The fuckwits who introduced the legislation are well aware that
> >>>>>> equipment
> >>>>>> made with lead free solder isn't safe, so aerospace, automotive,
> >>>>>> military
> >>>>>> and medical are exempt.
>
> >>>>>Amen to that ...
>
> >>>> Is there a big problem with consumers buying cheap aerospace,
> >>>> automotive, military or medical electronics and filling the landfills
> >>>> with them?
>
> >>> is there really a big problem with lead from electronics pouring out of
> >>> landfills?
>
> >>> I doubt it. the whole rohs thing and europeans are just stupid.
>
> >> Only insofar as we obey the braindead wankers in Brussels!
>
> > Ever been to brussels?
>
> > It's one of the most dirty run down cities I've ever seen.
>
> > They also can't line up the train platforms with any of the trains either.
> > It's really sad.
>
> Pretty much says it all, that!

This whole thing was somebody's brilliant brain fart to create some
jobs for people who might be otherwise unemployed. Looks good on the
surface but once you cut through all the bullshit and realize who
really is in bed with whom it projects a whole different image. My
wife thinks I'm paranoid, talking about conspiracy theories and what
not but this whole lead free business as well as the so called
recycling crap we deal with here in the US is all just another aspect
of the great stimulus package we have all had stuffed down our
throats. I'm all for recycling, if it is employed but too often it
just isn't. Three years ago we replaced the asphalt shingles on the
roof of our house. There was 3 tons of shingles to be recycled. I
could have dug a hole and buried them in my back yard, but wanting to
do the "green" thing I took them to the recycling station. This is
supposed to be an environmentally friendly way to dispose of this type
of "hazardous" waste. So I thought that there was going to be some
grand scheme of a procedure for the disposal of this "horrible toxic
hazardous stuff". I paid 350.00 for the privilege of dumping them on a
pile of household trash that was slated to be buried at another
location later on. So it is apparently OK to bury this kind of thing
in one place and not another? Or is it simply a matter of who is
getting greased at one place and not the other? This is always all
about money. Very simply put somebody is raking it in while someone
else is paying through the nose. That's the way we make it look good
on paper. Lenny

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ONLINE AIRLINES JOBS ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1cacf267443620e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 9:30 am
From: SUKANYA

ONLINE AIRLINES JOBS

FILL FORM AND GET
AIRLINEJOB FROM ONLINE
FOR FULL DETAILS

VISIT http://onlineairlinesjobs.blogspot.com

AIRLINES JOBS FOR ALL WORLD WIDE COUNTRIES

VISIT OUR WEBSITE AND DOWN LOAD APPLICATION

FOR MORE DETAILS VISIT

http://onlineairlinesjobs.blogspot.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/fda2aa9fa2e65ed3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 10:24 am
From: KAJOL

See Hot Sexy Star Aishwarya Nude Bathing Videos In All Angles.

at http://dailyupdatesonly.tk

Due to high sex content,i have hidden the videos in an image. in that
website on left side below search box click on image and watch
videos in all angles. please dont tell to anyone.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 40Gb Western Digital hard drive
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d11c27dd9c7d80c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 11:41 am
From: mike

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> A server is designed to run 24/7, and should have at least two power
> supplies. They generally have three or more hard drives for a small
> RAID array. They are better built than a consumer grade computer. You
> can use them as a regular computer, but it my not have a high resolution
> video card. A consumer type OS may not support multiple processors.

Huh, I had a feeling there was a reason I wouldn't be able to do
anything with it when I bought it.
Thanks for thew info.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 12:04 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

mike wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> > A server is designed to run 24/7, and should have at least two power
> > supplies. They generally have three or more hard drives for a small
> > RAID array. They are better built than a consumer grade computer. You
> > can use them as a regular computer, but it my not have a high resolution
> > video card. A consumer type OS may not support multiple processors.
>
> Huh, I had a feeling there was a reason I wouldn't be able to do
> anything with it when I bought it.
> Thanks for the info.

Doesn't it have at least one empty slot where you can install a
better video card? You can use multiple drives without installing a
RAID driver. Don't pitch it out, if it works. Play with it. Install a
version of Linux or use it for a test bed computer. You can remove the
rack mount brackets on a lot of server cases and use them as a big
desktop computer, or you can use some scrap lumber an made a crude rack
for it. Hand it under your computer desk if it is a one or two unit
size. Be creative. If all else fails, sell it on Ebay or Craigslist.
:)

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 12:24 pm
From: mike

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> I buy piles of them from the local recyclers. Those are the ones that
> work. You should see the piles and piles that didn't.
>

Damn, that can be time consuming, for sure. I'd like to compare notes
on using mhdd, but I didn't take any notes, so probably would get a
bunch of stuff wrong if I tried to recollect correctly; plus, I
discovered issues with the test machine's that I used, the 1st one I
think is a MB problem and the 2nd one a cdrom that was causing the MB
to misbehave. However, after getting familar with the program, I do
feel that it does a pretty good job of pointing out a hopeless drive.

On a slightly different subject, when I got curious about the
definition of 'low-level format', I did some googling on the subject
and checked out the Wikipedia for a bit and now I don't know whether I
even did any low-level formatting in the last few days, though I do
know that I used to in the early 80's - oh, well I guess that's
"progress' for ya.

Anyway, of the 3 hard drives that had been trashed by E-machines PSU
failures, the WD 40Gb one is still working fine ( it's in the machine
I'm posting from) so, after scanning it once and not seeing anything
suspect I figure I'll just keep using it unless it starts acting up.
Theres' also a 40 Gb Seagate that used not to be able to pass any of
the mfg's utilities which, after running a few of the operations in
mhdd now passes muster with the mfg's utilities, so I loaded ubuntu
onto it and will start using it sos I can see whether or not it's a
lasting fix. There's also an 80Gb Seagate drive which was not even
addressable by any means, and mhdd was not able to address it either
so I guess it must be totally screwed, forever, no matter what, it's
still just an inert lump...had hopes of making it ert, but so it goes
sometimes...:)

Thanks for the help,
Mike

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 1:55 pm
From: mike

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> Doesn't it have at least one empty slot where you can install a
> better video card? You can use multiple drives without installing a
> RAID driver. Don't pitch it out, if it works.

Oh, no, I'd never pitch anything out, (unless maybe I tripped over it
and broke a toe or somethin')

>Play with it. Install a
> version of Linux or use it for a test bed computer. You can remove the
> rack mount brackets on a lot of server cases and use them as a big
> desktop computer, or you can use some scrap lumber an made a crude rack
> for it.

I guess that the main obstacle is I don't know anything about scsi;
there are no drives in the drive bay, and there's a scsi bus but I
don't know jack about scsi. I've got a 2.1 Gb scsi drive, and some
kind of scsi controller card, but just haven't spent much time looking
into it yet.

Thanks,
Mike

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DTV decoder repair, capacitor gets too hot
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2a64f4c6ccba41cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jun 2 2010 1:20 pm
From: Jeroni Paul

> The current in an ideal capacitor is given by ...
>
>  I = C x dV/dt
>
> Can you use this to estimate the current draw?
>
> - Franc Zabkar

I tried this taking only the fall ramp:
dV = 0,781 V
dt = 4,72 us
C = 1000 uF

It results in 165 A. I may have done something wrong but I think the
capacitor ESR may play a role here as it causes an increase of dV not
reflected at I.

I also noticed the ramp has some ringing in it, not sure if that may
mean something.
The rectifier diode is SR360 and it gets hot very fast in a few
minutes, it could be leaky as suggested by Jamie.

The schematic shown in TNY265 datasheet for a 2A supply on page 9
figure 15 appears to match the circuit.

Thank you.

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sci.electronics.repair"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sci.electronics.repair+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en