sci.electronics.repair - 23 new messages in 13 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Microwave advice
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/cf0cdf1a15cc7e64?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 18 2010 11:38 pm
From: "Mr. Land"

On Jul 16, 7:04 pm, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> Mr. Land <grafton...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > OK, I see there is a long history of microwave over repair questions.
> > But I don't seem to see a thread that has my question:
>
> > So I have an older GE JVM1190 over-the-stove microwave unit.
>
> > Symptom is no heat.
>
> > When powered up and programmed to cook, the unit makes the expected
> > humming noise (the same it's always made) but a cup of water in the
> > chamber will not heat up.
>
> > I've studied the microwave FAQ repeatedly and I believe I understand
> > the dangers.
>
> > I constructed a long wooden-stick-based discharger for the HV cap,
> > discharged it (didn't get any spark at all), then ensured there was no
> > residual voltage on either of its terminals. Then I shorted the
> > terminals.
>
> > First I "tested" the magnetron: infinite resistance from either
> > cathode connection pin to ground, very low resistance between the two
> > pins themselves. Seems OK.
>
> > Then I tested the HV diode by placing it series with a 390 ohm
> > resistor and applying 15 VDC, and meauring the voltage drop across the
> > device. -15V negative biased, about 10 VDC forward biased...this
> > seemed to be within range.
>
> > Finally I tested the HV cap. It reads infinite resistance to the
> > chassis from either terminal. Between the terminals my capacitance
> > meters reads around 0.86 uF... which seems to be correct.
>
> > I've heard mention of a possibly bad HV fuse. AFAICT, this unit
> > doesn't have one of those.
>
> > So...the HV cap seems good, the mag seems good, the diode seems good,
> > the unit seems to draw appropriate current when in cook mode,yet the
> > over won't heat food.
>
> > What am I missing???
>
> > Could the magnetron still be "bad" despite the fact that it doesn't
> > read shorted/open?
>
> > Thanks.
>
> Is the transformer secondary good? check its resistance from the HV
> terminal to the chassis. Open = bad.
>

Yep, all resistances among transformer wires correspond to those shown
in the
block diagram enclosed in the unit.

> Is that microwave old enough to use a reed relay for defrost mode?
>

I don't believe so.

> Do you have a way to measure the HV from a microwave oven safely?- Hide quoted text -
>

I have a TV HV probe, but that's not safe...to use it with neg voltage
I'd have to reverse it, but then
the working end wouldn't have anywhere near enough HV insulation/
standoff...it'd be just an alligator
clip...no thanks! %^)

> - Show quoted text -

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 5:32 am
From: LSMFT

Mr. Land wrote:
> OK, I see there is a long history of microwave over repair questions.
> But I don't seem to see a thread that has my question:
>
> So I have an older GE JVM1190 over-the-stove microwave unit.
>
> Symptom is no heat.
>
> When powered up and programmed to cook, the unit makes the expected
> humming noise (the same it's always made) but a cup of water in the
> chamber will not heat up.
>
> I've studied the microwave FAQ repeatedly and I believe I understand
> the dangers.
>
> I constructed a long wooden-stick-based discharger for the HV cap,
> discharged it (didn't get any spark at all), then ensured there was no
> residual voltage on either of its terminals. Then I shorted the
> terminals.
>
> First I "tested" the magnetron: infinite resistance from either
> cathode connection pin to ground, very low resistance between the two
> pins themselves. Seems OK.
>
> Then I tested the HV diode by placing it series with a 390 ohm
> resistor and applying 15 VDC, and meauring the voltage drop across the
> device. -15V negative biased, about 10 VDC forward biased...this
> seemed to be within range.
>
> Finally I tested the HV cap. It reads infinite resistance to the
> chassis from either terminal. Between the terminals my capacitance
> meters reads around 0.86 uF... which seems to be correct.
>
> I've heard mention of a possibly bad HV fuse. AFAICT, this unit
> doesn't have one of those.
>
> So...the HV cap seems good, the mag seems good, the diode seems good,
> the unit seems to draw appropriate current when in cook mode,yet the
> over won't heat food.
>
> What am I missing???
>
> Could the magnetron still be "bad" despite the fact that it doesn't
> read shorted/open?
>
> Thanks.

Find the fuse,it's in line.

--
LSMFT

I haven't spoken to my wife in 18 months.
I don't like to interrupt her.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 6:20 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

"Mr. Land" wrote:
>
> On Jul 16, 7:04 pm, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
> > Mr. Land <grafton...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > OK, I see there is a long history of microwave over repair questions.
> > > But I don't seem to see a thread that has my question:
> >
> > > So I have an older GE JVM1190 over-the-stove microwave unit.
> >
> > > Symptom is no heat.
> >
> > > When powered up and programmed to cook, the unit makes the expected
> > > humming noise (the same it's always made) but a cup of water in the
> > > chamber will not heat up.
> >
> > > I've studied the microwave FAQ repeatedly and I believe I understand
> > > the dangers.
> >
> > > I constructed a long wooden-stick-based discharger for the HV cap,
> > > discharged it (didn't get any spark at all), then ensured there was no
> > > residual voltage on either of its terminals. Then I shorted the
> > > terminals.
> >
> > > First I "tested" the magnetron: infinite resistance from either
> > > cathode connection pin to ground, very low resistance between the two
> > > pins themselves. Seems OK.
> >
> > > Then I tested the HV diode by placing it series with a 390 ohm
> > > resistor and applying 15 VDC, and meauring the voltage drop across the
> > > device. -15V negative biased, about 10 VDC forward biased...this
> > > seemed to be within range.
> >
> > > Finally I tested the HV cap. It reads infinite resistance to the
> > > chassis from either terminal. Between the terminals my capacitance
> > > meters reads around 0.86 uF... which seems to be correct.
> >
> > > I've heard mention of a possibly bad HV fuse. AFAICT, this unit
> > > doesn't have one of those.
> >
> > > So...the HV cap seems good, the mag seems good, the diode seems good,
> > > the unit seems to draw appropriate current when in cook mode,yet the
> > > over won't heat food.
> >
> > > What am I missing???
> >
> > > Could the magnetron still be "bad" despite the fact that it doesn't
> > > read shorted/open?
> >
> > > Thanks.
> >
> > Is the transformer secondary good? check its resistance from the HV
> > terminal to the chassis. Open = bad.
> >
>
> Yep, all resistances among transformer wires correspond to those shown
> in the
> block diagram enclosed in the unit.
>
> > Is that microwave old enough to use a reed relay for defrost mode?
> >
>
> I don't believe so.
>
> > Do you have a way to measure the HV from a microwave oven safely?- Hide quoted text -
> >
>
> I have a TV HV probe, but that's not safe...to use it with neg voltage
> I'd have to reverse it, but then
> the working end wouldn't have anywhere near enough HV insulation/
> standoff...it'd be just an alligator
> clip...no thanks! %^)

Some HV probes have a polarity switch, but you could add a small full
wave bridge for the meter movement so that it doesn't matter.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Zenith 25CC25 horizontal sweep problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f0f84fb8db596265?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 1:42 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Jim Adney" <jadney@vwtype3.org> wrote in message
news:fefccde9-6445-418f-9b82-d2caf369870b@u26g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
> I'm trying to fix my '73 Zenith 25CC25. The problem is that the
> horizontal sweep is not wide enough, so my picture is compressed
> horizontally. I've lost about 10% of the width on each side. Other
> than that, it's fine. I have both the Zenith service manual and the
> Sam's for this set.
>
> I've tried other hor osc tubes (6U10) and hor out tubes (20LF6) and
> none of the ones I have (which should be good) worked any better (but
> some were a bit worse. Not too surprising.)
>
> This is a hybrid set, with 3 Zenith Duramodules. I have spares for
> each module, but swapping in the appropriate spare made no difference.
>
> I checked the B+ in the Horizontal stages, and it's fine, 274 V.
>
> The Vertical also seems fine, but I just tried to check the 2nd anode
> voltage, and got garbage readings from my HV probe. I'll take that
> probe to work tomorrow and check it to see if I can nail down that
> problem. It says I only have ~6800 V, which seems impossible. It's
> supposed to be 26 kV, so if it was really that low I believe the
> vertical sould be WAY overscanned, which it's not.
>
> I've checked a few resistances that I can get to easily, and so far
> they all seem good.
>
> What I haven't done so far is try to get a scope in there to look at
> the signal at each stage, so at this point I don't know where the
> problem starts.
>
> I'm hoping someone here will still be familiar with this old set and
> can suggest some good places to look next.
>
> thanks,
>

Not familiar with this set specifically, but still recall (fondly !) my days
working on UK hybrid TVs. How about the horizontal output tube's screen feed
resistor, or decoupling capacitor ? Also, the tuning cap for the HOPTx, or
even a leaky S-correction cap ? Bad width control ? I seem to recall that we
had lots of trouble with these going high in value to cause low width. Also,
any other high value resistors in the area. As to your garbage readings on
your high voltage probe, what sort of meter are you using it with ? If it's
old like the TV, it will have been made to work in conjunction with an
analogue meter with the 'standard' 20k ohms per volt characteristic. Use
with a different characteristic or digital meter, will result in wrong
readings.

Arfa

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 6:02 am
From: Meat Plow

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 18:14:46 -0700, Jim Adney wrote:

> I'm trying to fix my '73 Zenith 25CC25. The problem is that the
> horizontal sweep is not wide enough, so my picture is compressed
> horizontally. I've lost about 10% of the width on each side. Other than
> that, it's fine. I have both the Zenith service manual and the Sam's for
> this set.
>
> I've tried other hor osc tubes (6U10) and hor out tubes (20LF6) and none
> of the ones I have (which should be good) worked any better (but some
> were a bit worse. Not too surprising.)
>
> This is a hybrid set, with 3 Zenith Duramodules. I have spares for each
> module, but swapping in the appropriate spare made no difference.
>
> I checked the B+ in the Horizontal stages, and it's fine, 274 V.
>
> The Vertical also seems fine, but I just tried to check the 2nd anode
> voltage, and got garbage readings from my HV probe. I'll take that probe
> to work tomorrow and check it to see if I can nail down that problem. It
> says I only have ~6800 V, which seems impossible. It's supposed to be 26
> kV, so if it was really that low I believe the vertical sould be WAY
> overscanned, which it's not.
>
> I've checked a few resistances that I can get to easily, and so far they
> all seem good.
>
> What I haven't done so far is try to get a scope in there to look at the
> signal at each stage, so at this point I don't know where the problem
> starts.
>
> I'm hoping someone here will still be familiar with this old set and can
> suggest some good places to look next.
>
> thanks,

I started out working on tube stuff seeing that's all there was way back
then. You'll need to find a print of the HO stage with nominal voltages
illustrated. I'd assume without much doubt you've got a resistor or two
gone high value and some weak capacitors in that stage. You're going to
stumble around in the dark unless you know what to expect volts-wise on
the 20LF6

--
Altopia.com $12/m 10 unlimited connections

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 6:49 am
From: Chuck

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 13:02:54 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 18:14:46 -0700, Jim Adney wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to fix my '73 Zenith 25CC25. The problem is that the
>> horizontal sweep is not wide enough, so my picture is compressed
>> horizontally. I've lost about 10% of the width on each side. Other than
>> that, it's fine. I have both the Zenith service manual and the Sam's for
>> this set.
>>
>> I've tried other hor osc tubes (6U10) and hor out tubes (20LF6) and none
>> of the ones I have (which should be good) worked any better (but some
>> were a bit worse. Not too surprising.)
>>
>> This is a hybrid set, with 3 Zenith Duramodules. I have spares for each
>> module, but swapping in the appropriate spare made no difference.
>>
>> I checked the B+ in the Horizontal stages, and it's fine, 274 V.
>>
>> The Vertical also seems fine, but I just tried to check the 2nd anode
>> voltage, and got garbage readings from my HV probe. I'll take that probe
>> to work tomorrow and check it to see if I can nail down that problem. It
>> says I only have ~6800 V, which seems impossible. It's supposed to be 26
>> kV, so if it was really that low I believe the vertical sould be WAY
>> overscanned, which it's not.
>>
>> I've checked a few resistances that I can get to easily, and so far they
>> all seem good.
>>
>> What I haven't done so far is try to get a scope in there to look at the
>> signal at each stage, so at this point I don't know where the problem
>> starts.
>>
>> I'm hoping someone here will still be familiar with this old set and can
>> suggest some good places to look next.
>>
>> thanks,
>
>I started out working on tube stuff seeing that's all there was way back
>then. You'll need to find a print of the HO stage with nominal voltages
>illustrated. I'd assume without much doubt you've got a resistor or two
>gone high value and some weak capacitors in that stage. You're going to
>stumble around in the dark unless you know what to expect volts-wise on
>the 20LF6

Did you try replacing the damper diode or tube? Chuck

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 6:49 pm
From: Mike WB2MEP

On Jul 19, 9:49 am, Chuck <c...@deja.net> wrote:
> Did you try replacing the damper diode or tube? Chuck-

Also, if your set has a HV Pulse Regulator tube like a 6JH5 or 6HV5
(same size/shape as Hor Out, but no top cap) it can cause this
problem.
The Pulse regulators work on the primary side of the Flyback, and can
load
down the horiz. sweep. Gassy?
I have a 25CC50 from '72 and have seen all three of these tubes cause
this problem. I'm not familiar with the 25CC25. If it uses a HV
tripler like the 4-tube hybrids, there won't be a regulator tube.

Mike WB2MEP

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 8:06 pm
From: "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net"

On Jul 19, 8:49 pm, Mike WB2MEP <michael.w.appenzel...@lmco.com>
wrote:
> On Jul 19, 9:49 am, Chuck <c...@deja.net> wrote:
>
> > Did you try replacing the damper diode or tube? Chuck-
>
> Also, if your set has a HV Pulse Regulator tube like a 6JH5 or 6HV5
> (same size/shape as Hor Out, but no top cap) it can cause this
> problem.
> The Pulse regulators work on the primary side of the Flyback, and can
> load
> down the horiz. sweep. Gassy?
> I have a 25CC50 from '72 and have seen all three of these tubes cause
> this problem. I'm not familiar with the 25CC25. If it uses a HV
> tripler like the 4-tube hybrids, there won't be a regulator tube.
>
> Mike WB2MEP

I would be suspicious of the screen grid. Either the feed resistor or
the bypass capacitor or both.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 8:08 pm
From: "hr(bob) hofmann@att.net"

On Jul 19, 3:42 am, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Jim Adney" <jad...@vwtype3.org> wrote in message
>
> news:fefccde9-6445-418f-9b82-d2caf369870b@u26g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > I'm trying to fix my '73 Zenith 25CC25. The problem is that the
> > horizontal sweep is not wide enough, so my picture is compressed
> > horizontally. I've lost about 10% of the width on each side. Other
> > than that, it's fine. I have both the Zenith service manual and the
> > Sam's for this set.
>
> > I've tried other hor osc tubes (6U10) and hor out tubes (20LF6) and
> > none of the ones I have (which should be good) worked any better (but
> > some were a bit worse. Not too surprising.)
>
> > This is a hybrid set, with 3 Zenith Duramodules. I have spares for
> > each module, but swapping in the appropriate spare made no difference.
>
> > I checked the B+ in the Horizontal stages, and it's fine, 274 V.
>
> > The Vertical also seems fine, but I just tried to check the 2nd anode
> > voltage, and got garbage readings from my HV probe. I'll take that
> > probe to work tomorrow and check it to see if I can nail down that
> > problem. It says I only have ~6800 V, which seems impossible. It's
> > supposed to be 26 kV, so if it was really that low I believe the
> > vertical sould be WAY overscanned, which it's not.
>
> > I've checked a few resistances that I can get to easily, and so far
> > they all seem good.
>
> > What I haven't done so far is try to get a scope in there to look at
> > the signal at each stage, so at this point I don't know where the
> > problem starts.
>
> > I'm hoping someone here will still be familiar with this old set and
> > can suggest some good places to look next.
>
> > thanks,
>
> Not familiar with this set specifically, but still recall (fondly !) my days
> working on UK hybrid TVs. How about the horizontal output tube's screen feed
> resistor, or decoupling capacitor ? Also, the tuning cap for the HOPTx, or
> even a leaky S-correction cap ? Bad width control ? I seem to recall that we
> had lots of trouble with these going high in value to cause low width. Also,
> any other high value resistors in the area. As to your garbage readings on
> your high voltage probe, what sort of meter are you using it with ? If it's
> old like the TV, it will have been made to work in conjunction with an
> analogue meter with the 'standard' 20k ohms per volt characteristic. Use
> with a different characteristic or digital meter, will result in wrong
> readings.
>
> Arfa- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If he really only had 7Kv, there would be a huge bloomed out barely
visible picture.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Simple Hack To Get $2000 To Your PayPal Account.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6a67d82b3c3f95c5?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a87924f34dd2d173?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Valve/tube, A/R fault
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/51967f830b2ca3c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 6:40 am
From: "N_Cook"

60V supply over A-G, dropped the resistance to 4.6K . Tried on a 500V
Megger, not expecting to do much as only battery powered. Small white flash
from inside and ohmage shot up to over 200M. Testing on valve tester and
checks out fine

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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/90ce9b739268e047?hl=en
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TOPIC: 60/40 vs. 63/37 Solder
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4620260930cd06a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 8:40 am
From: Fred Abse

On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:47:09 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> I would NEVER add a pound of solder to an existing solder pot at one
> time. When I bought my 6" diameter solder pot I had enough used solder to
> more than fill it. It came from the use of a smaller solder pot to
> salvage ICs from scrap PC boards. Float the board, then tap the corner of
> the solder pot. A bunch of solder balls hit the aluminum plate the pot
> was on. I would use a large pair of channel lock pliers to pick up the hot
> pot to pour out some solder into a small aluminum pan, then dump all the
> loose solder into the pot.

So you don't really know the composition of the solder in the pot, or how
much copper, gold, etc. contamination there is?

--
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence
over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."
(Richard Feynman)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 6:18 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Fred Abse wrote:
>
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2010 01:47:09 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> > I would NEVER add a pound of solder to an existing solder pot at one
> > time. When I bought my 6" diameter solder pot I had enough used solder to
> > more than fill it. It came from the use of a smaller solder pot to
> > salvage ICs from scrap PC boards. Float the board, then tap the corner of
> > the solder pot. A bunch of solder balls hit the aluminum plate the pot
> > was on. I would use a large pair of channel lock pliers to pick up the hot
> > pot to pour out some solder into a small aluminum pan, then dump all the
> > loose solder into the pot.
>
> So you don't really know the composition of the solder in the pot, or how
> much copper, gold, etc. contamination there is?

No need to, really. it was used to salvage parts and tin wire. Most
of the boards were soldered with 80/20 so i had to add some scrap lead
from time to time, to lower the melting point. The other metals didn't
hurt anything.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HOW CAN I HACK $5000 FROM PAYPAL WATCH VIDEO.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/389be3ab624d13f7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 10:16 am
From: Bipasa

HOW CAN I HACK $5000 FROM PAYPAL WATCH VIDEO.
At http://easypaypalmoney.tk

Due to high security risks,i have hidden the cheque link in an
image. in that website on Top side Above search box, click on image
and enter your name and address where you want to receive your
cheque. please don,t tell to anyone.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 10:48 am
From: Meat Plow

On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:16:49 -0700, Bipasa wrote:

> HOW CAN I HACK $5000 FROM PAYPAL WATCH VIDEO. At
> http://easyXXXXXXXXXXX
>
> Due to high security risks,i have hidden the cheque link in an image
>laden with malicious code designed to turn your computer into a mindless
>rogue bot.

Edited for the truth.

--
Altopia.com $12/m 10 unlimited connections

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jul 19 2010 5:00 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 7/19/2010 10:48 AM Meat Plow spake thus:

> On Mon, 19 Jul 2010 10:16:49 -0700, Bipasa wrote:
>
>> HOW CAN I HACK $5000 FROM PAYPAL WATCH VIDEO. At
>> http://easyXXXXXXXXXXX
>>
>> Due to high security risks,i have hidden the cheque link in an image
>>laden with malicious code designed to turn your computer into a mindless
>>rogue bot.
>
> Edited for the truth.

Sorta.

First of all, yes, it's fucking spam, and the spammer deserves death or
worse. It's the phoniest goddamn web page possible, dolled up to look
like a blog (no doubt because the spammer heard that having a blog on
your page cranks up your SEO, and he believes that crap), but with
completely bogus "content", like:

World map google maps yahoo maps microsoft live maps famoushub com
mojohost com for complete domain details go to whoischeck aspx domain.
Godaddy domains world famous go daddy may be famous for its irreverent
super about [...]

Complete and utter bullshit, trying desperately to score hits.

But when you say "image laden with malicious code", do you mean the
image itself (a .PNG in this case), or what happens if you click on it?
If you mean the latter, then yes, one would have to be crazy or stupid
to do that. But images themselves don't carry viruses or "malicious
code", so far as I know. It's the links they're connected to that you
have to watch out for.

Anyhow, I'd just like to be able to one day take a peek inside the head
of a spammer like this and ask them, "What were you thinking?!?!?!" Do
they actually expect to strike it rich this way?

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

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TOPIC: Aisa "drained" of electronic components
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/baa2715dc622c0c2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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