sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Simple Hack TO Get $1500 To Your PayPal Account.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3534b02afce0be64?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 12:15 am
From: paypal

Simple Hack To Get $1500 To Your PayPal Account At http://1001videos.co.cc

Due to high security risks, i have hidden the PayPal Form link in an
image. in that website On Top Side Above search box , click on image
and enter your PayPal id And Your name. please don,t tell to any
One.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 6:19 am
From: Reverend Fuzzy

Shameful, this one... the spammers aren't even trying anymore.

> Due to high security risks, i have hidden the PayPal Form link in an
> image. in that website On Top Side Above search box , click on image
> and enter your PayPal id And Your name. please don,t tell to any
> One.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home Solar Power
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2f82b8288b37f8c6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 1:34 am
From: ali nurwatoni

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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6b315e31ea874156?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 6:20 am
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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/50df7085e19448b4?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/534ac79d1ccf8447?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 7:32 am
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 7:32 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: A&F T-shirts (women) （www.nike-black.com ）
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/93c594a600020bcb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Microwave advice
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/cf0cdf1a15cc7e64?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 8:58 am
From: Cydrome Leader

Mr. Land <graftonfot@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I have new info.
>
> Firstly, though THANK YOU ALL for taking the time to try to help. I
> appreciate it.
>
> So....I have replaced the magnetron in this before. AND, I read that
> there seems to be a rash of
> problems with these magnetrons.
>
> But, the new info: my wife told me she'd heard the uWave emit this
> "loud arcing noise" just before it
> stopped heating food.
>
> I couldn't find any evidence of arcing within the HV section itself,
> however, when I removed the magnetron and
> inspected the "antenna" (?) it looked as though it had been arcing:
> there is a brass-colored conical tip that's flattened at the top
> with a hole in it. That extends down towards the body about 1/2", then
> there is a violet-colored band of some
> material I can't identify...it appears to be some sort of insulating
> material. Then under that is the RF braided gasket.
>
> Well, where the purple insulating bushing and the copper tip
> meet..there is a slight blackening and pitting...as
> though arcing had occurred part of the way around that seam.
>
> Does it make sense that the magnetron would arc there?

yeah, that's pretty common. I don't recall why it happens though. The
microwave here at work died that way, I still have the magnetron laying
around.

It's possible it could have been cleaned up and used again, but a new $100
microwave oven showed up instead.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: hissing sound coming from behind woofer on one side AR11
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3a9cce9766f809ce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 12:30 pm
From: Amanda Ripanykhazov

Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
put through the speaker.

Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals
put through the woofer itself??

Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
speaker completely). This speaker is quite elderly and I would
imagine that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty
by now

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 1:04 pm
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <fe92a44c-5b5f-4e6d-aa00-d46fe01e48b8@s9g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Amanda Ripanykhazov <dmanzaluni@googlemail.com> wrote:
>Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
>irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
>or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
>put through the speaker.
>
>Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
>something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
>coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
>adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals
>put through the woofer itself??
>
>Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
>there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
>improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
>speaker completely). This speaker is quite elderly and I would
>imagine that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty
>by now

Looks like a closed box and my first thought is an leak. Don't understand"behind woofer"
Inside ?? Outside ?? Or sounds like behind woofer from the front.

I would troubleshoot a woofer with low frequency test tones, without
any high frequencies being generated. I used to do a quick test with AM radio.

Changing frequency will likely change the sound. Get close, feel around.
Can't tell from your description, but could be the woofer itself making
mechanical surround, voice coil, or suspension sounds.

greg

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 1:20 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

If the AR11 were a ducted-port speaker (I don't think it is), it would
likely be the "port noise complaint" (OUCH!), with air "rushing" or
"whistling" through the port.

It's hard to believe the sound /is/ coming from the speaker when you say "it
isn't related to the music or any movement of the cone or any signal put
through it". Speakers are passive, and do not produce sounds on their own --
other than, perhaps, loud crashing/breaking noises when they're knocked off
a shelf.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 1:57 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 12:30:48 -0700, Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:

> Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
> irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone or
> any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is put
> through the speaker.
>
> Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
> something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
> coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
> adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals put
> through the woofer itself??
>
> Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
> there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
> improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
> speaker completely). This speaker is quite elderly and I would imagine
> that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty by now

Make sure a snake hasn't crawled behind the speaker.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 2:45 pm
From: Franc Zabkar

On Tue, 20 Jul 2010 20:57:56 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Make sure a snake hasn't crawled behind the speaker.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/58/201963991_64a75623ae.jpg

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 4:39 pm
From: Reverend Fuzzy

On Jul 20, 2:30 pm, Amanda Ripanykhazov <dmanzal...@googlemail.com>
wrote:
> Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
> irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
> or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
> put through the speaker.
>
> Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
> something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
> coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
> adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals
> put through the woofer itself??
>
> Is it indicative of some pot in the crossover needing cleaning or is
> there something else going on please? (I have seen reference to people
> improving the sound of AR11s by bypassing the tone controls in the
> speaker completely). This speaker is quite elderly and I would
> imagine that if it does use mechanical pots, they must be fairly dirty
> by now

If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
electrolytic capacitor going bad.
When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 4:46 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Reverend Fuzzy"

If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
electrolytic capacitor going bad.
When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.

** That is utterly bizarre crap.

.... Phil

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 6:01 pm
From: Jim Adney

On Jul 20, 2:30 pm, Amanda Ripanykhazov <dmanzal...@googlemail.com>
wrote:

> Anyone know what this means? This hissing sound isnt constant, it is
> irregular: It isnt related to the music or any movement of the cone
> or any signal put through it, though it doesnt happen when no sound is
> put through the speaker.
>
> Frankly it sounds more mechancial than electronic (as if there is
> something behind there!) but as I say, it isnt related to whatever is
> coming through the speaker though it does increase and decrease with
> adjustment of the volume control. Andit is louder than most signals
> put through the woofer itself??

My guess is that the suspension for the woofer cone has come unglued.
This can allow the voice coil to rub on the magnet, which makes sounds
that are mechanical and vary with volume.

To check for this, you'll need to remove the grill cloth so you can
get to the speakers. Gently press all five fingers of one hand against
the woofer cone, next to the center dome. Push sideways on the cone;
try several directions. It should not want to move. It may be useful
to do this on both speaker (stereo, right?) so you can be sure of any
differences.

You may see that the "surround" has disintegrated. That would be an
obvious flaw. There is also a lower support called a spider which
centers the cone near its small end. If the spider has come unglued,
it can be reglued while holding the cone centered.

Older AR speakers used wirewound controls for the tone controls. These
corrode and lose contact. The effect of this is to lose the midrange
or tweeter completely. They can be disassembled and cleaned, but they
don't tend to make extra noises. The capacitors in decent speaker
crossovers are never electrolytics, so they don't generally
deteriorate over time.

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 6:38 pm
From: Reverend Fuzzy

On Jul 20, 6:46 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> "Reverend Fuzzy"
>
> If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
> electrolytic capacitor going bad.
> When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.
>
> ** That is utterly bizarre crap.
>
> .... Phil

Not half as bizarre as your instant flaming of something I have seen
happen in my personal experience. If you haven't seen it, yourself,
don't just call my answer crap... PROVE it can't happen.

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 6:41 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jim Adney"

You may see that the "surround" has disintegrated.

** Happens to ALL speakers made with foam surrounds - like the AR11.

That would be an obvious flaw.

** Obvious only if you look, the OP must be blind.

If the spider has come unglued,

** Very unlikely.

Older AR speakers used wirewound controls for the tone controls.

** Not the AR 11 - it uses a switch.

The capacitors in decent speaker
crossovers are never electrolytics,

** Fraid that is just not true.

Most famous brand name hi-fi speakers use bi-polar electros for the larger
values at least.

.... Phil

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 6:47 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Reverend Fuzzy"
"Phil Allison"
>
> If there is a cross-over board in the case, you may have an
> electrolytic capacitor going bad.
> When they over heat, they'll make those sort of noises.
>
> ** That is utterly bizarre crap.

Not half as bizarre as your instant flaming of something I have seen
happen in my personal experience.

** What you wrote here is bizarre crap.

What you might have seen elsewhere at sometime is another matter.

If you haven't seen it, yourself,

** Your post here is bizarre crap.

Electros used in hi-fi speakers like the AR11 do not "over heat" and hence
are not the source of peculiar hissing noises.

Ever worked on an AR11??

I have.

.... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Zenith 25CC25 horizontal sweep problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f0f84fb8db596265?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 5:28 pm
From: Jim Adney

Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. I'll try to respond
to each of your comments.

I've measured the 2nd anode voltage twice, with 2 different meters,
one analog and one digital, both with 10 MOhm input impedance. In each
case I got low answers, 7 kV and 13 kV. I really do know what I'm
doing here, so I'm puzzled by the low readings and I can't explain
them. I took the probe and one meter to work to check them and they
checked out perfectly at 5 kV. My picture isn't as bright as I'd like,
but it really doesn't seem like it could actually be down to half
voltage or less. There's no blooming, either. Right now I'm going with
operator error....

I have tried different hor out (20LF6) hor osc (6U10) and dampers
(19DQ6.) None improved the problem. I didn't swap in vert output tubes
(10JA5) since the vertical seems to be fine. Those are the 4 tubes in
this set.

This is a hybrid set. The hor signal coming out of the 9-48 Duramodule
measures 21 V p-p. Sam's says it should be 16 V but the Zenith manual
says it should be 24 V. Swapping in another 9-48 doesn't help the
problem. There are differences in the schematics shown in the 2
manuals, specifically in the 24 V supply for the solid state modules.
My modules are getting about 22.5 V, but that's one of the options
that Sam's shows. That bus is dead quiet: less than 0.1 V p-p of
ripple, exactly as it's supposed to be.

It appears that some of these sets fed 22.5 V to the Duramodules and
some supplied 24 V. I'm tempted to rewire this set to supply 24 V, but
the fact is that it worked this way for 40 years, so that would be
skipping over the real problem. Nevertheless, I'd be interested in
hearing from those of you with real world experience about which
version is actually better.

So far, I've just been working from the top of the chassis, picking up
test points that correspond to tube pins that I can get a DVM or scope
probe on. Tomorrow I'll clear off the junk that's sitting on top of
the set, flip it over, and dive into the belly. Yes, the first thing I
plan to do is check for carbon resistors that have gone high. Unless I
find the smoking gun that way, I'll then look at voltages at each of
the test points shown in both the Sam's and Zenith manuals.

One of the signal voltages I found late in the hor circuit was low, so
I'm pretty sure the problem is somewhere in the 6U10 or 20LF6 circuit.
With all the connections to the convergence and the HV, there's so
much going on there that I'm really not sure about what parts can
affect which other parts.

I very much appreciate everyone who made suggestions. I'll try each
one of them. I'm skilled at electronics, but I have little practical
experience with TVs. It's good to get input from real experience.

thanks,

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Jul 20 2010 5:43 pm
From: Jim Adney

On Jul 19, 8:49 pm, Mike WB2MEP <michael.w.appenzel...@lmco.com>
wrote:

> Also, if your set has a HV Pulse Regulator tube like a 6JH5 or 6HV5
> (same size/shape as Hor Out, but no top cap) it can cause this
> problem.

This set has a tripler.

Any other suggestions?

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