sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 8 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Old garage light fixture with no sign of existing switch
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/25109a2423d6f22a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 12:35 am
From: Jim

A general thanks to all who replied. I know this was a long shot for an
online question.

The main mystery is that the only visible switches control the inside
garage light (seen in photo) and the light outside the small garage door.
It is not a detached garage, as someone implied.

If one of those two wall switches (inside the garage) also controls the
high outside garage light, it wasn't a very practical setup - to have two
lights on at once, inside and out. Is that a known common configuration
from the old days?

Taking apart the wires in the box isn't practical at the moment (long
story) but I'm sure some answer lies therein. I might end up bypassing the
existing wire entirely and routing a temp. wire from a regular wall plug.

Jim

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:31 am
From: KR

On Jul 3, 12:02 pm, Jim <jim857...@jim.com> wrote:
> See this photo for reference:http://www.badongo.com/pic/9827256
>
> The white-sheated wire goes to the dead fixture and terminates inside its
> box.
>
> Can anyone take a guess as to where the on/off switch would be located for
> this old garage light fixture? It's in a California house built in the
> early 1950s. The previous owners never got the fixture to work, and when it
> last worked is a mystery.
>
> The main ceiling bulb inside the garage works fine, along with a light
> outside above the man-door (one of two; the other leads to the kitchen).
> Both of those fixtures are operated with wall switches next to their
> respective doors.
>
> But the outside spotlight high above the big "garage door" hasn't worked in
> decades and nobody knows where the switch is supposed to be. I opened the
> wiring box (shown closed in that photo) and couldn't find any sign of a
> pull-chain switch. The wires are so jammed in that it was hard to trace
> them back outside the box. Didn't want to risk pulling on them, as they
> seem brittle.
>
> This may be hard to fugure out online, but if anyone knows where a 1950s
> garage switch might TYPICALLY be located, please advise. I've looked all
> over inside the garage and may have to get the contractor's wiring diagram
> somehow.
>
> Thanks. Jim

I don't know how things are done in the US, but I have yet to hear of
an electrical contractor making
such a diagram for a residential install, and even if he did, you
would have Buckleys chance of ever finding it unless it was in the
house.

I would consider it also very likely that the contractor and others
involved would now be dead, or pretty close to that state.

If you think that the wire is brittle - GET IT REPLACED - otherwise
you have serious risk of an electrical fire.
especially if any insulation fell off, or was in the bottom of that
box when you opened it.

At that point, get a switch installed for the light in question, and
be done with it.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:32 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> If one of those two wall switches (inside the garage) also
> controls the high outside garage light, it wasn't a very
> practical setup -- to have two lights on at once, inside
> and out.

That was my point. There would be no point in controlling the outside light
for the garage from /within/ the garage.

You need to look in the house for a switch that doesn't seem to do anything.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 10:46 am
From: nesesu

On Jul 3, 3:35 pm, "William R. Walsh"
<newsgrou...@idontwantjunqueemail.walshcomptech.com> wrote:
> Hi!
>
> > Can anyone take a guess as to where the on/off switch would be located for
> > this old garage light fixture?
>
> My guess is that it would be switched with one of the other fixtures you
> mentioned...and that there is another problem, possibly with the fixture
> that does not work. Given that it seems to be an outdoor fixture, this seems
> very plausible.
>
> While you might find building plans, I'd say that it is fairly unlikely to
> expect that you will find wiring plans beyond what (if anything) is printed
> inside the fuse or circuit breaker box.
>
> William

If you had the original blueprints for the house, it should have all
the original switches, lights and outlets shown, and there should be a
dotted line from each switch to the light fixture it operates. Now,
there is no guarantee that the contractor followed the plans, and
there could easily have been changes made later, but that should, at
least, provide a clue. Clearly the box pictured has been altered some
time after original construction since the [what appears to be] 3 wire
cable is of a later manufacture from the original black Romex.

Neil S.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Old Solder
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1325a43abbae0cc1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 2:27 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

I've never heard of rosin-core solder drying out. It would probably take a
lot longer than just a few years to deteriorate to the point where the flux
no longer "fluxed". Perfumes that still smelled have been found in pyramids.

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:36 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Joe wrote:
>
> In article <lppv261quq572fj413r2uaupde4a5pvtua@4ax.com>, John Fields
> <jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 18:19:10 -0700, none@given.now (Joe) wrote:
> >
> > >A couple of days ago I did a small repair to an electronic timer. It just
> > >need a bit of solder to reconnect a wire.
> > >
> > >I had a devil of a time with that small repair, the solder just didn't
> > >want to flow over the wire and onto the pad on the PCB.
> > >
> > >A little while later, it occurred to me that maybe the problem was that I
> > >had used some old solder - about a foot or so are remaining on probably a
> > >5 or 10 foot spool.
> > >
> > >The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering attempt,
> > >there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.
> > >
> > >Questions:
> > >
> > >Are there any obvious ways to tell if old solder has lost its flux, other
> > >than trying it out on say, soldering some scrap wire?
> > >
> > >What happened to the rosin core of that solder? It doesn't look like the
> > >end was left open.
> > >
> > >Is there a definite life for unused solder?
> >
> > ---
> > Dunno.
> >
> > I've got rolls of Kester and Ersin that I bought years and years ago
> > where I can still smell the fresh Frankincense and Myrrh and are hard
> > to make a cold joint with, and I've got some Alpha and some other
> > brand that I wouldn't use on plumbing without external flux.
> >
> > Do you know whose solder you're using?
>
> John,
>
> I have two spools of Radio Shack 63/37 rosin-core solder. One of the
> spools is almost empty (the one that I had the problem trying to solder
> with), the other looks at least half full.
>
> Both spools have the Radio Shack stock number 64-015, but they have
> different artwork on their labels, and the old plastic spool is black, the
> newer plastic spool is white.
>
> The older spool quite possibly dates back to around 1980.

Radio Shack solder was low quailty, years ago. I won't buy it. It
used a low grade flux, and the core was inconsistant. if you didn't see
smoke when you touched it to the work, then it had no flux. The rosin
is dry, anyway. It was the old acid core solder that was liquid.

Do yourself a HUGE favor and buy some Ersin/Multicore solder, and
some Kester RMA liquid flux. Between the two, there is little you can't
solder properly.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 3:41 am
From: Baron

Joe Inscribed thus:

> A couple of days ago I did a small repair to an electronic timer. It
> just need a bit of solder to reconnect a wire.
>
> I had a devil of a time with that small repair, the solder just didn't
> want to flow over the wire and onto the pad on the PCB.
>
> A little while later, it occurred to me that maybe the problem was
> that I had used some old solder - about a foot or so are remaining on
> probably a 5 or 10 foot spool.
>
> The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering
> attempt, there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.
>
> Questions:
>
> Are there any obvious ways to tell if old solder has lost its flux,
> other than trying it out on say, soldering some scrap wire?
>
> What happened to the rosin core of that solder? It doesn't look like
> the end was left open.
>
> Is there a definite life for unused solder?
>
> --- Joe

Not all solder wire has flux built in !
Also you might find that "Lead Free" solder is much harder to melt,
requiring a higher soldering iron temperature.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 5:04 am
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

William Sommerwerck wrote:
> I've never heard of rosin-core solder drying out. It would probably take a
> lot longer than just a few years to deteriorate to the point where the flux
> no longer "fluxed". Perfumes that still smelled have been found in pyramids.

It's probably plumbing or stained glass window solder which did not have
flux in it. Remember "Old solders never die".

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM
I do multitasking. If that bothers you, file a complaint and I will start
ignoring it immediately.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 5:36 am
From: Meat Plow

On Sat, 03 Jul 2010 18:19:10 -0700, Joe ǝʇoɹʍ:

> A couple of days ago I did a small repair to an electronic timer. It
> just need a bit of solder to reconnect a wire.
>
> I had a devil of a time with that small repair, the solder just didn't
> want to flow over the wire and onto the pad on the PCB.
>
> A little while later, it occurred to me that maybe the problem was that
> I had used some old solder - about a foot or so are remaining on
> probably a 5 or 10 foot spool.
>
> The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering
> attempt, there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.
>
> Questions:
>
> Are there any obvious ways to tell if old solder has lost its flux,
> other than trying it out on say, soldering some scrap wire?
>
> What happened to the rosin core of that solder? It doesn't look like
> the end was left open.
>
> Is there a definite life for unused solder?

I have a roll of solder that's maybe 25 years old. The rosin doesn't
evaporate.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 6:19 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> I have a roll of solder that's maybe 25 years old.
> The rosin doesn't evaporate.

I bought a big roll of Ersin 63/37 solder circa 1980, and it's still fine. I
assume the flux /will/ eventually "go bad", but that's likely to be long
after I'm dead.

PS: The spell checkers wants to change "Ersin" to "Resin". Fascinating.

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 7:28 am
From: Smitty Two

In article
<none-0307101819110001@dialup-4.231.175.251.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net
>,
none@given.now (Joe) wrote:

> A couple of days ago I did a small repair to an electronic timer. It just
> need a bit of solder to reconnect a wire.
>
> I had a devil of a time with that small repair, the solder just didn't
> want to flow over the wire and onto the pad on the PCB.
>
> A little while later, it occurred to me that maybe the problem was that I
> had used some old solder - about a foot or so are remaining on probably a
> 5 or 10 foot spool.
>
> The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering attempt,
> there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.
>
> Questions:
>
> Are there any obvious ways to tell if old solder has lost its flux, other
> than trying it out on say, soldering some scrap wire?
>
> What happened to the rosin core of that solder? It doesn't look like the
> end was left open.
>
> Is there a definite life for unused solder?
>
> --- Joe

I'm the militant s.e.r. liquid flux advocate. If you're going to solder
at all, especially to make repairs, you *need* liquid flux, period. One
of these days I'll make a video for youtube demonstrating how flux
facilitates soldering. I don't care if you think you've been soldering
fine without it for 50 years, if you don't use it, you have no idea what
you're missing.

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 8:44 am
From: "Tom Biasi"

"Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-137180.07284004072010@mx01.eternal-september.org...
> In article
> <none-0307101819110001@dialup-4.231.175.251.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net
>>,
> none@given.now (Joe) wrote:
>
>> A couple of days ago I did a small repair to an electronic timer. It
>> just
>> need a bit of solder to reconnect a wire.
>>
>> I had a devil of a time with that small repair, the solder just didn't
>> want to flow over the wire and onto the pad on the PCB.
>>
>> A little while later, it occurred to me that maybe the problem was that I
>> had used some old solder - about a foot or so are remaining on probably a
>> 5 or 10 foot spool.
>>
>> The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering attempt,
>> there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> Are there any obvious ways to tell if old solder has lost its flux, other
>> than trying it out on say, soldering some scrap wire?
>>
>> What happened to the rosin core of that solder? It doesn't look like the
>> end was left open.
>>
>> Is there a definite life for unused solder?
>>
>> --- Joe
>
> I'm the militant s.e.r. liquid flux advocate. If you're going to solder
> at all, especially to make repairs, you *need* liquid flux, period. One
> of these days I'll make a video for youtube demonstrating how flux
> facilitates soldering. I don't care if you think you've been soldering
> fine without it for 50 years, if you don't use it, you have no idea what
> you're missing.
I don't agree. The flux contained in the solder is adequate for fairly clean
joints. If the joints are not clean and a little brush cleaning is not
possible then the liquid will be a help.
I use the liquid on old radio (1920- ) equipment because the copper is
usually in bad shape. On most modern jobs it will not be necessary to use
liquid in hand soldering.

Tom

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 9:26 am
From: IanM

Tom Biasi wrote:
> "Smitty Two" <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:prestwhich-137180.07284004072010@mx01.eternal-september.org...
>> In article
>> <none-0307101819110001@dialup-4.231.175.251.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net
>>> ,
>> none@given.now (Joe) wrote:
>>
>>> A couple of days ago I did a small repair to an electronic timer. It
>>> just
>>> need a bit of solder to reconnect a wire.
>>>
>>> I had a devil of a time with that small repair, the solder just didn't
>>> want to flow over the wire and onto the pad on the PCB.
>>>
>>> A little while later, it occurred to me that maybe the problem was that I
>>> had used some old solder - about a foot or so are remaining on probably a
>>> 5 or 10 foot spool.
>>>
>>> The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering attempt,
>>> there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>>
>>> Are there any obvious ways to tell if old solder has lost its flux, other
>>> than trying it out on say, soldering some scrap wire?
>>>
>>> What happened to the rosin core of that solder? It doesn't look like the
>>> end was left open.
>>>
>>> Is there a definite life for unused solder?
>>>
>>> --- Joe
>> I'm the militant s.e.r. liquid flux advocate. If you're going to solder
>> at all, especially to make repairs, you *need* liquid flux, period. One
>> of these days I'll make a video for youtube demonstrating how flux
>> facilitates soldering. I don't care if you think you've been soldering
>> fine without it for 50 years, if you don't use it, you have no idea what
>> you're missing.
> I don't agree. The flux contained in the solder is adequate for fairly clean
> joints. If the joints are not clean and a little brush cleaning is not
> possible then the liquid will be a help.
> I use the liquid on old radio (1920- ) equipment because the copper is
> usually in bad shape. On most modern jobs it will not be necessary to use
> liquid in hand soldering.
>
> Tom
>
>
Agreed. If the copper (or plating) is in bad shape, you need extra
flux, otherwise it's just extra mess. I use powdered rosin dissolved in
methylated spirits (or 95% alcahol or isopropanol) to make a
saturated solution and a toothpick or small brush to apply it. Although
there is no extra 'active' chemicals in it, just rosin does a good job
on joints that aren't badly contaminated.

It also is good for 'holding' a freshly cleaned copper board for a few
weeks while you are soldering up a project. If used sparingly on
individual joints then cleanup is little worse than with fluxcore
solder, though if you paint it on liberally, you will need to wash the
board THOROUGHLY, ideally IPA then hot water then mist with IPA, drain
and dry thoroughly.

I suspect the flux ran out while the solder was being extruded as Mr
M.Terrell pointed out up thread.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & >32K emails --> NUL:

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 11:09 am
From: whit3rd

On Jul 4, 7:28 am, Smitty Two <prestwh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> In article
> <none-0307101819110...@dialup-4.231.175.251.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net
>
>
>
> >,
> n...@given.now (Joe) wrote:

> > The big Aha! came when I realized that all during that soldering attempt,
> > there was absolutely no odor of rosin flux.

> > Is there a definite life for unused solder?

No, but there IS faulty and inconsistent solder product in
the market... major brands (Kester, Multicore) are fine.

> I'm the militant s.e.r. liquid flux advocate. If you're going to solder
> at all, especially to make repairs, you *need* liquid flux, period.

I'll second that. A 2 oz. bottle of liquid flux, with an artist's
small
brush, always sits between my soldering iron and the magnifier
(so I can see bad joints, hit 'em with the flux, and reheat).

Rosin flux does develop clumps (probably just the alcohol
evaporating); the water-soluble type is just as good in its
own way (but you HAVE to rinse clean afterward).

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 1:30 pm
From: Ecnerwal

In article
<none-0307101819110001@dialup-4.231.175.251.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net
>,
none@given.now (Joe) wrote:

I've got a roll or two of Multicore that's easily 3 decades old, and
still works fine. Now, when doing repairs, you are often up against a
filthy joint and the crufty remains of the flux last used, plus any dirt
or corrosion it's attracted since it was made - and there just might be
a layer of varnish or the like applied to the thing post-assembly to
additionally complicate life, and none of those will help a bit.

If you can't make it clean mechanically (the preferable option, IMHO),
additional flux might help.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cleaning Electronics Devices
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5336e04e2afad1c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 4:15 am
From: Don

The rotating drum/head assembly was completely covered and protected,
as well as the bottom of the motor underneath the chassis. After the
wash, I went through and fully lubricated all points in the transport
which were previously lubricated. Mitsubishi used a special type of
graphite grease, and I located it online. Of course, I knew the PC
boards could be cleaned in this manner, as I used to work for an
electronics manufacturer. However, an entire VCR was a bit of a
bizarre thought. I had nothing to lose with this approach, as my
initial thought after receiving the VCR was to put it in the trash.

All of the membrane switches, all of the mechanical and electrical
aspects of the machine work fine after 3 months of use. Needless to
say, I am pleasantly surprised everything is still functioning to
spec. We'll see if it has any long term affects in the coming
months.

The top cover wasn't in the best of shape, so I contacted a friend who
does powder coating, primarily for custom cars. He stripped the
cover, and powder coated it, and now it looks better than new. He
only charged me for the powder... $10.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 4:37 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

Thanks for the details.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 5:35 am
From: Adam Sampson

Don <w9cw@yahoo.com> writes:

> I have used this method for cleaning other types of electronics in the
> past, but not a VCR.

There was a discussion on the TekScopes list a few months ago about
Tektronix's procedure for cleaning their oscilloscopes and other test
equipment during refurbishment: use a spray gun with plenty of hot water
and detergent, rinse with clean water, then dry in a warm oven for 24
hours. A dishwasher approximates this pretty well.

The instructions list a few caveats: try to avoid getting power
transformers or paper-cased capacitors wet, and relubricate switches and
other moving parts after drying. List members noted that Tek were
reasonably careful to choose switches and pots that could be washed this
way, and more careful drying may be necessary for equipment made by
other manufacturers...

If you're a member of the list's Yahoo group, there's a good article
with photos here:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/TekScopes/files/Tek%20Scope%20Cleaning%20by%20C%20Phillips.pdf

--
Adam Sampson <ats@offog.org> <http://offog.org/>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Farnell N055P300 SMPS data?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0314da0e5eed25a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 5:20 am
From: Mike

Hi,

Does anyone have the data for this SMPS (pinouts etc.)

Thanks

Mike

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Epson Perfection Scanner Problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e3e2ff1db77f9673?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 5:41 am
From: Michael Karas

In article <895fofFd2hU1@mid.individual.net>, JD@No-where.con says...
>
> Hi Experts :-)
>
> I have an Epson 1640SU that worked very well until
> today. Now, when I press the start button, it
> click-clicks and the carriage does not move.
>
> I removed the screws and tried to take the top
> off. The front of the top has catches that project
> into the base so it does not allow me to lift up
> the front. I removed the screws from the back and
> it will lift slightly but seems to be caught in
> something. I don't want to force it, so if someone
> has experience of this model I would appreciate
> advice on how to take it apart without wrecking it.
>
> TIA

Be aware that once you open the scanner, presuming you can get past the
mechanical issues you are having, the pristine clean interior will never
be that way again. These things are assembled in a clean room so that
there is no dust inside the unit. (Dust = spots and defects in every
scan that you make). Working in a home or ordinary repair shop is no
substitute for the clean room and you will find it impossible to keep
the internal parts of the unit dust and lint free. Remember that the air
all around us is full of dust particles and it will get all over the
internal scanner parts despite all best efforts to "keep it clean".

--
- mkaras

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 6:20 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> Be aware that once you open the scanner, presuming you can get past the
> mechanical issues you are having, the pristine clean interior will never
> be that way again. These things are assembled in a clean room so that
> there is no dust inside the unit. (Dust = spots and defects in every
> scan that you make). Working in a home or ordinary repair shop is no
> substitute for the clean room and you will find it impossible to keep
> the internal parts of the unit dust and lint free. Remember that the air
> all around us is full of dust particles and it will get all over the
> internal scanner parts despite all best efforts to "keep it clean".

You are perhaps overlooking the fact that the "internal" dust will be at
some distance from the focal plane.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: a presentation on Lead-free solder
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/527a6b18f25279a3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 7:30 am
From: Smitty Two

In article <i0pbjt$el1$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

> Anyone familiar with de-tinning of tin-tinned components / deballing
> +reballing of BGA etc in the defense/aerospace/medical spheres?

Aren't those arenas exempt from RoHS?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 9:00 am
From: "N_Cook"

Smitty Two <prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-C37DE4.07303204072010@mx01.eternal-september.org...
> In article <i0pbjt$el1$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Anyone familiar with de-tinning of tin-tinned components / deballing
> > +reballing of BGA etc in the defense/aerospace/medical spheres?
>
> Aren't those arenas exempt from RoHS?

exactly the point - how many in those mission critical 4 areas have opted to
go with the new PbF stuff, they don't have to take up the derrogation and
stay with the old solder.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: See Hot College Girls Sex images
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0f6e6fc9ad0ed72f?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: TSA shaving mirror out of a hard disk drive (what are those shiny
platters made out of anyway)?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/680b452b6da0d742?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jul 4 2010 10:53 am
From: VFW

In article <J5ydnRJcYJ-uNL_RnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@giganews.com>,
aemeijers <aemeijers@att.net> wrote:

> DA wrote:
> > responding to
> > http://www.homeownershub.com/maintenance/TSA-shaving-mirror-out-of-a-hard-di
> > sk-drive-what-are-those-448822-.htm
> > DA wrote:
> >
> > Elmo wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> What are the shiny CDROM-sized platters in an old desktop disk drive
> >> made
> >> out of?
> >
> >> I glued two of them together so that the offset covered the center hole
> >> to
> >> use as an indestructable traveling shaving mirror.
> >
> >> A friend said they won't pass TSA security but they're not sharp. They
> >> are
> >> just really shiny and really flat.
> >
> >> What are they made out of anyway?
> >
> > A bit of a strange choice of material for *traveling* shaving mirror (and
> > shape, too: how do you hold it while shaving?) - there are plastic mirrors
> > that are brighter and lighter. You'd think weight would be an important
> > parameter for a traveler...
> >
> > But I think TSA should definitely have an issue with you bringing it into
> > the cabin (why do you need a shaving mirror there anyways? Half the wall
> > space in a lavatory not enough?) . If it's a ceramic platter, it should be
> > able to shutter into very sharp shards useful for well, I don't know,
> > slashing someone's throat to hijack a plane?
> >
> > Leave it at home.
> >
> > -------------------------------------
> > /\_/\
> > ((@v@)) NIGHT
> > ():::() OWL
> > VV-VV
> >
> >
> >
>
> And yet they let the FA's pass out aluminum pop cans, that when drained
> and folded in half, then torn by flexing them across the edge of the
> fold-down tray, make two dandy slashing weapons, with convenient hand grips.
>
> To anyone who has had any training (and no, I haven't had any), the
> cabin is full of all sorts of improvised weapons there for the taking,
> not to mention how easy it is to make a weapon look like part of a
> carry-on bag. Security theater, nothing more. The real security is the
> armored cabin door, and the revised protocols for hijack situations. In
> short, cabin crew and pax are expendable, and the bad guys know it.
> Cabin crew and pax know it too, which is why you had people swarming the
> last few idiots. Can't hijack a plane any more, but you may be able to
> destroy one in flight.

that's what Dick Cheney did. and got away with it. but what about Karma?
--
Money! What a concept.

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