sci.electronics.repair - 17 new messages in 8 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Weird stuff -- update -- (was Electronic Kenmore refrigerator not
working, what does this sign mean)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/90e33648f2879de5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Sep 3 2010 9:10 pm
From: "Martin H. Eastburn"

Vapor lock. Likely a little light on freon and the pump shutting off
gets a high head pressure and can't push up to clear it.

Likely in the off position, it will leak pass a gasket and it will start.

That is my suspect. Might be that way only when hot. e.g. just running.

Might work in the shop all winter if cold out there - lightly running and
cold coils. Warm house shuts it down.

That is what I figure.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 9/2/2010 7:03 PM, Ignoramus28169 wrote:
> Things are getting weirder and weirder. My original post is at the bottom.
>
> I have received the replacement relay and capacitor today.
>
> Installed them (it was a 2 minute job).
>
> Plugged in the fridge.
>
> The compressor happily started working normally, mildly vibrating and
> indicating in all respects that it is running fine.
>
> Happy after 2 minutes, I turned off the fridge, and reinstalled the
> rear insulated covering panel and ground.
>
> Plugged in again and I HEARD THE SAME OLD DREADED BUZZING SOUND. Now,
> the compressor motor would not start again! It busses fomr several
> seconds and the relay clicks and turns it off.
>
> I am completely puzzled as to why exactly it turned on once, but would
> not turn on again.
>
> Any idea?
>
> i
>
>
> On 2010-08-31, Ignoramus20906<ignoramus20906@NOSPAM.20906.invalid> wrote:
>> I have an electronic Kenmore refrigerator 596.50013100. I bought it
>> from a private party over a year ago and it has been working great
>> until now. It seems very well made, overall.
>>
>> Yesterday it started beeping and displaying a strange trouble signal:
>>
>> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Kenmore-Trouble.jpg
>>
>> It is right above the word "Kenmore", is red and looks like a crossed
>> lock and an exclamation.
>>
>> The temperature in the unit has been rising since then and clearly, it
>> is not cooling anything. Right now both freezer and fridge are at 46
>> degrees F.
>>
>> I tried calling Kenmore, but could only speak to dummies who are
>> forbidden to give any diagnostics.
>>
>> My question is WTF does this sign mean? It is meant to tell me
>> something.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> i

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yet another bulging-capacitors replacement
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3ec97de65fce9bb3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 1:44 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:bp7386l3k3gbikbmbrskn59sshhvn5ismm@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 02:07:59 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>All agreed
>>Arfa
>
> Nobody ever agrees with me. I must have said something wrong.
>
> See:
> <http://www.microsi.com/packaging/thermal_grease.htm>
> Notice what happens to the thermal resistance as the thickness of the
> silicon grease layer increases. Also notice the comment about
> "solvent evaporation" which is why Arctic Silver and other greases
> takes a while to "break-in".
>
>
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060

OK. So here's the thing. The articles that you linked to are very
interesting, and at least one says that "the pcb is the primary heatsink in
the case of BGAs". Given that is true, as it was Intel I think that said it,
is this true for all BGAs ? If it is, then what is the point of fixing an
elaborate heatsinking system to the *tops* of the BGAs, and force cooling
this with a blower of over 2 amps rating, capable of ramping up to vacuum
cleaner levels ? When it gets going a bit, it actually exhausts pretty hot
air from these things. I would say that the heatsink gets *much* hotter than
the pcb, and if you try to run the board even at idle without the heatsinks
being placed, the unit goes into thermal protect inside a few seconds. If
the pcb was really the "primary heatsink" in the case of these particular
BGAs, I would have thought that at least when just idling, they would have
run ok 'naked' ??

Arfa

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:19 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 09:44:11 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>OK. So here's the thing. The articles that you linked to are very
>interesting, and at least one says that "the pcb is the primary heatsink in
>the case of BGAs".

There are about 100 assorted BGA packages, most of which do not
require a heat sink. You see them on video cards, cell phones, glue
chips, game machines, and most commonly on memory cards. There is NO
WAY your large BGA package, which probably has a big FPGA burning 200
watts inside, is going to work with just heat sinking to the PCB. The
leads are the primary heat sink for the small packages, not for the
monsters.

>Given that is true, as it was Intel I think that said it,
>is this true for all BGAs ?

Absolutely not. Size matters.

>If it is, then what is the point of fixing an
>elaborate heatsinking system to the *tops* of the BGAs, and force cooling
>this with a blower of over 2 amps rating, capable of ramping up to vacuum
>cleaner levels ?

Desperation? If you can't get the heat out via the leads, you do
whatever else is necessary.

>When it gets going a bit, it actually exhausts pretty hot
>air from these things.

I think you'll be surprised at how close to meltdown your BGA's are
running. Even a small heat producer will accumulate heat if the box
isn't adequately vented. The problem is that air really sucks as a
thermal conductor. It takes an awful lot of air to do very little
cooling. Give me some numbers to work with. Incidentally, you might
try using an IR thermometer on the heat sink, BGA, and exhaust air for
a sanity check.

>I would say that the heatsink gets *much* hotter than
>the pcb, and if you try to run the board even at idle without the heatsinks
>being placed, the unit goes into thermal protect inside a few seconds. If
>the pcb was really the "primary heatsink" in the case of these particular
>BGAs, I would have thought that at least when just idling, they would have
>run ok 'naked' ??

Yep. For BGA's without heat sinks, the primary heat conduction path
is through the vias in the substrate, to the solder balls, and then to
the PCB. For larger BGA's, it's through the case to a heat sink.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 12:28 pm
From: whit3rd

On Sep 4, 10:19 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 09:44:11 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>
> <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >OK. So here's the thing. The articles that you linked to are very
> >interesting, and at least one says that "the pcb is the primary heatsink in
> >the case of BGAs".

> ... NO
> WAY your large BGA package, which probably has a big FPGA burning 200
> watts inside, is going to work with just heat sinking to the PCB. The
> leads are the primary heat sink for the small packages, not for the
> monsters.

Like Intel says, it's primary.
'Primary' does not mean the heatsink with the largest heat flux. It
means the FIRST heatsink, the one that all designers start with.
BGA packages have quite a lot of thermal conductivity through those
soldered-down feet, it's not something to be ignored.
In related news, 'prime rib' is a rib roast with the rib #1 included.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 1:22 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 12:28:55 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Sep 4, 10:19 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 09:44:11 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>>
>> <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> >OK. So here's the thing. The articles that you linked to are very
>> >interesting, and at least one says that "the pcb is the primary heatsink in
>> >the case of BGAs".
>
>> ... NO
>> WAY your large BGA package, which probably has a big FPGA burning 200
>> watts inside, is going to work with just heat sinking to the PCB. The
>> leads are the primary heat sink for the small packages, not for the
>> monsters.

>Like Intel says, it's primary.
>'Primary' does not mean the heatsink with the largest heat flux. It
>means the FIRST heatsink, the one that all designers start with.
>BGA packages have quite a lot of thermal conductivity through those
>soldered-down feet, it's not something to be ignored.
>In related news, 'prime rib' is a rib roast with the rib #1 included.

<http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/pkginfo/Ch_14.pdf>
The exact quote is:
A considerable increase in thermal effectiveness of a BGA
package can be obtained by using boards that are thermally
efficient, increasing the airflow, or providing thermal paths
from the board. Remember, with PBGAs, the board is your
primary heatsink.

PBGA is a plastic ball grid array. I guess "primary" does make sense,
since the vias going through the base are closer to the heat source
than the package lid. Therefore, heat will try to exit through the
leads before the lid.

Thermally conductive PCB material:
<http://www.bergquistcompany.com/thermal_substrates/>
<http://www.bergquistcompany.com/thermal_substrates/t-clad-product-overview.htm>

It's a wonder they don't unsolder themselves. Oh wait... Nvidia
laptop video chips do that.
<http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/39045-nvidia-gpu-failures-caused-by-material-problem-sources-claim>
According to our sources, the failures are caused by a solder bump
that connects the I/O termination of the silicon chip to the pad
on the substrate. In Nvidia's GPUs, this solder bump is created
using high-lead. A thermal mismatch between the chip and the
substrate has substantially grown in recent chip generations,
apparently leading to fatigue cracking. Add into the equation a
growing chip size (double the chip dimension, quadruple the stress
on the bump) as well as generally hotter chips and you may have the
perfect storm to take high lead beyond its limits. Apparently,
problems arise at what Nvidia claims to be "extreme temperatures"
and what we hear may be temperatures not too much above 70 degrees
Celsius.

Note the "thermal mismatch". I have a Dell XPS1210 laptop on the
bench with exactly this problem and am waiting to justify the expense
of a hot air SMT rework machine.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 5:17 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:e09586l6jf1dgfbkg204h8ooq4qq05rjla@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 12:28:55 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sep 4, 10:19 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 09:44:11 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
>>>
>>> <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> >OK. So here's the thing. The articles that you linked to are very
>>> >interesting, and at least one says that "the pcb is the primary
>>> >heatsink in
>>> >the case of BGAs".
>>
>>> ... NO
>>> WAY your large BGA package, which probably has a big FPGA burning 200
>>> watts inside, is going to work with just heat sinking to the PCB. The
>>> leads are the primary heat sink for the small packages, not for the
>>> monsters.
>
>>Like Intel says, it's primary.
>>'Primary' does not mean the heatsink with the largest heat flux. It
>>means the FIRST heatsink, the one that all designers start with.
>>BGA packages have quite a lot of thermal conductivity through those
>>soldered-down feet, it's not something to be ignored.
>>In related news, 'prime rib' is a rib roast with the rib #1 included.
>
> <http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/pkginfo/Ch_14.pdf>
> The exact quote is:
> A considerable increase in thermal effectiveness of a BGA
> package can be obtained by using boards that are thermally
> efficient, increasing the airflow, or providing thermal paths
> from the board. Remember, with PBGAs, the board is your
> primary heatsink.
>
> PBGA is a plastic ball grid array. I guess "primary" does make sense,
> since the vias going through the base are closer to the heat source
> than the package lid. Therefore, heat will try to exit through the
> leads before the lid.
>
> Thermally conductive PCB material:
> <http://www.bergquistcompany.com/thermal_substrates/>
> <http://www.bergquistcompany.com/thermal_substrates/t-clad-product-overview.htm>
>
> It's a wonder they don't unsolder themselves. Oh wait... Nvidia
> laptop video chips do that.
> <http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/39045-nvidia-gpu-failures-caused-by-material-problem-sources-claim>
> According to our sources, the failures are caused by a solder bump
> that connects the I/O termination of the silicon chip to the pad
> on the substrate. In Nvidia's GPUs, this solder bump is created
> using high-lead. A thermal mismatch between the chip and the
> substrate has substantially grown in recent chip generations,
> apparently leading to fatigue cracking. Add into the equation a
> growing chip size (double the chip dimension, quadruple the stress
> on the bump) as well as generally hotter chips and you may have the
> perfect storm to take high lead beyond its limits. Apparently,
> problems arise at what Nvidia claims to be "extreme temperatures"
> and what we hear may be temperatures not too much above 70 degrees
> Celsius.
>
> Note the "thermal mismatch". I have a Dell XPS1210 laptop on the
> bench with exactly this problem and am waiting to justify the expense
> of a hot air SMT rework machine.
>
> --
> Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com

Assuming that you're talking a 'standard' SM rework station with hot air
pencil, and not a multi-thousand dollar fixed rework station, then the one I
recently purchased direct from China, was just 55 quid - about $85. Bit of
postage to add on of course, but at that sort of money, not too much
justification required, I would suggest ? Look on eBay for KADA 852D. Very
good value for money. I'm very pleased with mine. The eBay shop I bought
mine from (dragondirectmall I think it was), has a video on the site of them
building one, so you can get an idea of the quality.

Arfa

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 6:59 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Sun, 5 Sep 2010 01:17:10 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>Assuming that you're talking a 'standard' SM rework station with hot air
>pencil, and not a multi-thousand dollar fixed rework station, then the one I
>recently purchased direct from China, was just 55 quid - about $85. Bit of
>postage to add on of course, but at that sort of money, not too much
>justification required, I would suggest ? Look on eBay for KADA 852D. Very
>good value for money. I'm very pleased with mine. The eBay shop I bought
>mine from (dragondirectmall I think it was), has a video on the site of them
>building one, so you can get an idea of the quality.

<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370427912032>
$124. I saw your previous reply to someone asking about SMD rework
stations. The problem with the KADA 852D is that it only includes 5
generic circular nozzles (2-10mm). I need the big square BGA nozzle
assortment, which are about $100 extra from other vendors. I also
can't seem to find any listing for KADA parts. The eBay listings does
include one spare heater and soldering iron element. I've got two
off-brand soldering irons I bought at various hamfests for which I
can't find tips or repair parts. Kada looks good, but not good
enough.

What I'm looking at is, at $230.
<http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/9766>
It's twice as expensive, but has all the features I want (or could
possibly want later). Also, lots of parts available. The tips are a
useful assortment, but I'll still need to buy some QFP nozzles at
about $18/ea. I borrowed this model for about 2 weeks and really
liked using it.

This is another possibility, as it includes 20 nozzles for $239:
<http://www.circuitspecialists.com/prod.itml/icOid/8227>
However, it leaves out the soldering iron and desoldering iron, so
it's not really a fair comparison.

What's stopping me is an impending $2,000 dental bill, which will
greatly reduce my ability to buy new toys and tools.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Plasma TV Foggy area
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9e5cdc2b5ff03be3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:51 am
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"Michael Kennedy" <mike@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:TeydnWj5w-JXjxzRnZ2dnVY3goydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Randy Day" <randy.day@sasktel.netx> wrote in message
> news:MPG.26eaccdb1b1fd1e19896c0@202.177.16.121...
>> In article <VridnT16DI5klBzRnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
>> mike@nospam.com says...
>>> I don't have this tv in hand now and also don't have the make and model
>>> of
>>> this display at the moment but all I am looking for is general
>>> information
>>> for now.
>>>
>>> This tv has a smudged / blurry area on the screen. It looks almost like
>>> it
>>> is dirty from a oily hand but it doesn't wipe off. It is not a
>>> rectangular
>>> area.
>>>
>>> I am not familar with the common failure modes of Plasma displays. What
>>> is
>>> your best guess would cause this.
>>
>> Someone used solvent to clean the screen?
>>
>
> Interesting idea.. That's a case where the screen could be fixed... I will
> have a close look at it in a couple of days.
> The price is right on this thing, but I don't want to sink money into it
> if the screen is about to crap out.. Since that's the one piece that cant
> be repaired.
>

Lets not get ahead of ourselves - do we know for sure it's really a plasma
and not an LCD? My customers often confuse the two.

If not damage to anti-glare coating which has been suggested, it does sound
more like an LCD type problem to me.

Mark Z.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 5:57 am
From: Meat Plow

On Sat, 04 Sep 2010 01:58:16 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

> "Michael Kennedy" <mike@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:7vqdnYbfH6htixzRnZ2dnVY3goWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>> "AZ Nomad" <aznomad.3@PremoveOBthisOX.COM> wrote in message
>> news:slrni825ad.gkr.aznomad.3@ip70-176-155-130.ph.ph.cox.net...
>>> On Sat, 4 Sep 2010 00:18:51 +0900, Michael Kennedy <mike@nospam.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Meat Plow" <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:pan.2010.09.03.14.59.46@hahahahahahahah.nutz.I.am...
>>>>> On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 23:45:09 +0900, Michael Kennedy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have this tv in hand now and also don't have the make and
>>>>>> model
>>>>>> of this display at the moment but all I am looking for is general
>>>>>> information for now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This tv has a smudged / blurry area on the screen. It looks almost
>>>>>> like
>>>>>> it is dirty from a oily hand but it doesn't wipe off. It is not a
>>>>>> rectangular area.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not familar with the common failure modes of Plasma displays.
>>>>>> What
>>>>>> is your best guess would cause this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>
>>>>> Since it only covers a non-symmetrical portion of the screen my
>>>>> guestimate would be the screen itself.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Thanks for the insight Meat.
>>>
>>>>These aren't affected by magnets the way CRT sets are they? Sorry for
>>>>the stupid questions, but I have never taken apart, owned or even used
>>>> a plasma
>>>>display. I am only familiar with the VERY basic principles of
>>>>operation and
>>>>know it uses phosphors which are similar to a CRT but uses some other
>>>>method
>>>>to illuminate the phosphors. I guess uses some kind of micro printed
>>>>circuitry similar to an LCD display, but I could be totally wrong
>>>>about that.
>>>
>>> There is no convergance nor is there any concept of focussing. The
>>> pixels are fixed in size and location and nothing can affect that.
>>
>> That's the question I was wondering.. Thanks! I've got a little better
>> idea of how this thing works now. Before it was all speculation.
>>
>>
> It was not unknown for plasma cells on older panels to develop a
> 'memory' of some bright content that had been displayed, resulting in a
> sort of visible 'stain'. In the worst case, this could cause permanent
> damage to the cells in the area, but often, the effect could be negated
> with a special service mode that did an intense white wipe of the panel.
> I'm pretty sure that modern panels don't suffer from this problem, and
> are much less susceptible to cell burn from high intensity static
> displays, but if the set is more than a few years old, it might be worth
> checking to see if there is a service mode that carries out a panel
> wipe. It may even be available as a user function through one of the
> menus.
>
> Have a read of
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_display
>
> For a good description of the principles involved
>
> Arfa

If the screen protector was damaged by some solvent it would be easy to
tell using a little oblique lighting

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 9:29 pm
From: mike

Michael Kennedy wrote:
> I don't have this tv in hand now and also don't have the make and model of
> this display at the moment but all I am looking for is general information
> for now.
>
> This tv has a smudged / blurry area on the screen. It looks almost like it
> is dirty from a oily hand but it doesn't wipe off. It is not a rectangular
> area.
>
> I am not familar with the common failure modes of Plasma displays. What is
> your best guess would cause this.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Mike
>
>
Is there anything between the front of the plasma panel and the user?
Dust/Dirt gets sucked in by fans and deposits itself
on any available internal surface.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HOT ACTRESS
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/39d4a5b67e2029d9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 8:33 am
From: SRAVANTHI LOVE

ASTHASINGAL IN A BATHROOM

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/08/asthasingal-in-bath.html

SNEHA HOT SEX PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/08/sneha-hot-sexy-photos.html

ARTHICHABRIA BEAUTIFUL PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/08/aarthi-chabria-hot-photos.html

ANUSHKA UNBELIVABLE PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/06/anuskha-sex-images.html

THRISHA HOT WET PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/06/thrisha-hot-wet-photos.html

NAMITHA EXTORDINARY PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/06/nayagarala-namitha.html

SHRIYA SARAN SEXY PHOTOS

http://babes-devi.blogspot.com/2010/08/shriya-saran-hot-photos.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Supergluing your fingers together
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/27d3b5cbe57935fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 1:57 pm
From: Phil Hobbs

isw wrote:
> In article <i5q87b$5is$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in message
>> news:4C80375D.4020906@electrooptical.net...
>>> AZ Nomad wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:20:39 -0700, Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> Surprising I've never done it before . Thumb and second finger firmly
>> glued
>>>>>> to either side of a connecctor. I tried methylated spirits first but
>> no
>>>>>> effect seemingly. Then dilute acetone as nail varnish remover. I was
>>>>>> concerned about being too long on the skin so some cotton wool balls
>> of
>>>>>> acetone around both areas and a Q-tip soaked in acetone, with a
>> rotating
>>>>>> wedge-like motion, cautiously wedging skin from connector worked, but
>> anyone
>>>>>> elses experiences/advice for the next time?
>>>>> Keeping a bottle of superglue debonder around is a cheap investment.
>>>>> If you go to a hobby store which carries a selection of cyanoacrylate
>>>>> glues (usually of different viscosities and bonding speeds) you ought
>>>>> to find a supply of debonder in the same rack.
>>>>
>>>> Has anybody ever found an application where superglue works well
>>>> except on human skin? I find the crap brittle as hell and have yet to
>>>> see anything glued with it last more than a few weeks before breaking.
>>> I use it on optical things often, because it's easily removed, like Duco
>>> cement except stronger and faster-setting. As long as you use just a
>>> little, it doesn't cause too much nasty frosting nearby.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Phil Hobbs
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr Philip C D Hobbs
>>> Principal
>>> ElectroOptical Innovations
>>> 55 Orchard Rd
>>> Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
>>> 845-480-2058
>>> hobbs at electrooptical dot net
>>> http://electrooptical.net
>>
>>
>> How do you use "just a little" with the viscosity almost of liquid helium
>> and coming in aluminium tubes of a gauge almost the same as tin cans it
>> seems impossible to squeeze out a small drop, only.
>
> Easy; you just smear it on with your finger 8^}
>
> Isaac

You put a drop of it on a bit of scrap plastic, and apply with a
toothpick--just like epoxy. If you use too much, the free surface
outgasses like mad and you wind up with white plastic snow all over
everything. There are 'low outgassing' PMMA formulations, but they're
only low by comparison.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal
ElectroOptical Innovations
55 Orchard Rd
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510
845-480-2058
hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How best to eval heat risk from AC adaptors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2d07e53513b14b4a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 2:12 pm
From: vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com

WHat P=VI values are safe to leave plugged in indefinitely (clock or phone)?

I still remember a 1970s Readers Digest on a fire from a 1950s
telephone adaptor..

- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 9:26 pm
From: mike

vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> WHat P=VI values are safe to leave plugged in indefinitely (clock or phone)?
>
> I still remember a 1970s Readers Digest on a fire from a 1950s
> telephone adaptor..
>
> - = -
> Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
> http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm http://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2
> ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
> [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
> [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
>
>
>
nonsense question
P<>VI unless they're complex numbers.
All devices are safe according to the regulatory agency that approved
them using whatever standards they used.
ALL DEVICES FAIL.
Some catch fire.

I once read in readers digest that a house can catch fire. Does that
allow me
to make blanket statements about which houses are safe?
Hint: NO.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where to buy a small wheel hub motor?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bff5998ba56db04d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 8:21 pm
From: John Doe

Meat Plow <mhywatt yahoo.com> wrote:

...

> http://www.scootercatalog.com/750-watt-rear-hub-motor.html

That looks better than anything I have come up so far, and I am no
slouch at research. Thanks.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 8:22 pm
From: John Doe

"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid> wrote:

> A lot of bike motors come from China

A lot of everything comes from China.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Denon UD-M50 alignment diagrams for this deck. Request.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/937f070eac79d2eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Sep 4 2010 10:25 pm
From: "Sotiris Antoniou"

Please anybody has the alignment diagrams for this deck. I have trouble with
this. A service manual, I have does not show the alignment.
Thanks in advance.

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