sci.electronics.repair - 26 new messages in 8 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yet another bulging-capacitors replacement
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3ec97de65fce9bb3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Sep 1 2010 11:59 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Arfa Daily wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote in message
> news:Jo2dnfqSRvF9IOPRnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> ?
> ? Arfa Daily wrote:
> ??
> ?? "Michael A. Terrell" ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote in message
> ?? news:m5ednfqzQtE_8ePRnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> ?? ?
> ?? ? Arfa Daily wrote:
> ?? ??
> ?? ?? Well Jim, that was why I used the word "potentially", but judging by
> ?? the
> ?? ?? size of the pins used to couple the power supply's output into the
> ?? ?? board -
> ?? ?? if you've been following the thread, you will recall that I previously
> ?? ?? described them as being of the size you would find on the line cord
> ?? for a
> ?? ?? kettle - then I wouldn't say that there was too much in the way of
> ?? ?? reserve.
> ?? ?
> ?? ? "The size you would find on the line cord for a kettle" doesn't have
> ?? ? much meaning in the US. :)
> ??
> ?? Why is that ? You have electric kettles in your kitchens - I've used
> ?? them.
> ?
> ?
> ? I've never seen one. Even Coffee pots are rare these days.
> ?
> ?
> ?? Or don't you call them kettles ?. OK, anyway, if it's a better
> ?? description,
> ?? the size of the round ground pin on a line cord that has a three pin
> ?? plug.
> ?? Is that more meaningful ? 3/16" diameter maybe ? 4mm ?
> ?
> ?
> ? 3/16" is between AWG 5 ? AWG 4. 4 mm is between AWG 7 ? AWG 6. How
> ? much current do those kettles draw?
> ?
> ?
> ? --
>
> Typical UK kettle is 2 - 3kW so 8 to 12 amps or thereabouts. Now, I'm really
> confused that you say that you've never seen one. How do you boil water for
> a cup of tea, or a cup of instant coffee?

On the gas or electric stove. A lot of people heat the water in a
microwave. Fast and efficient.

> Whenever I come to Florida, I
> stay in a private rental home, and although some have had a kettle that
> heats from a ring on the cooker, I'm sure that I have also stayed in homes
> that had an electric version. Or maybe I'm mistaken on this? Perhaps with
> your line power at only 110v at a non 3 phase outlet, the current levels are
> impractical with an element powerful enough to heat the water in short
> order. Here, every home - and I really mean *every home* - has one. It is a
> known problem for the electricity grid controllers, when TV ads come on in
> the middle of the popular soaps. Short term demand goes through the roof, as
> everyone rushes out to make a cup of tea or coffee, at the same time. The
> controllers genuinely have to know the advert schedules in the TV
> programmes, and factor this into their load shedding operations.

The same thing with water demand when people rush to the bathroom
during a commercial. :)

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 3:24 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Mike Tomlinson" <mike@jasper.org.uk> wrote in message
news:6GldFyBDtwfMFwUI@jasper.org.uk...
> In article <BDDdo.2319$3p1.124@hurricane>, Arfa Daily
> <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> writes
>
>>Just as a matter of interest Meat, what is your preferred brand and type
>>of
>>heatsink goop when working with these very high power processors?
>
> I'd recommend Arctic Silver.
>
>> I have always
>>resisted using this stuff, because it's so messy, and so hard to remove
>>unless you use the complementary cleaner
>
> nah, standard IPA works fine. The trick is to use clean tissue wetted
> with IPA, wiping just once or twice then replacing with a fresh piece,
> repeating until the CPU is clean. If you go back with used tissue, you
> just spread the AS about more.
>
> If it makes that much mess, you're using too much. See the application
> tips on the AS website. You literally only need a half-a-grain-of-rice
> sized blob in the centre of the CPU heat spreader, it'll spread out by
> itself with pressure from the heatsink. Note AS say it can take a few
> heat/cool cycles to become fully effective, and indeed this is what I
> have found.
>
>>, but if it really is that much more
>>effective
>
> It is. A colleague at work was struggling to cool a CCD (a big one!)
> without having to resort to cryogenic cooling. He was experimenting
> with a Peltier cooler and unable to transfer heat away from the CCD fast
> enough. I suggested he try replacing the standard white goop with AS
> and he was astonished at the massive improvement in heat transfer.
>
> --
> (\__/)
> (='.'=)
> (")_(")
>
>

Yes indeed. This is kind of what I'm finding. I in fact use a vanishingly
small amount of AS which as you say is easy to remove with IPA, but I come
across devices that have been 'excessed' on the AS by other people, and it
is very messy to remove compared to white compound. Until I really got into
using the stuff, I was of the same misconceived notion about the quantity to
use, as others seem to be. I have always been sparing with compound - and I
use a lot of it as I repair many big amps for a living - but it is a fact
that a very thin translucent layer of white, is not effective enough on a
standard non-flatted device face, and heatsink contact area, whereas with
AS, it would appear that it is. These BGAs are the size of a large graphics
chip, and I apply a very thin line of AS across the face, and then spread it
using an old credit card, rather than hoping that it will spread out across
the whole face on its own. This negates the tedious disassembly and
reassembly required to get at the heatsinking faces if the cooling turns out
to not be adequate. So far, this seems to be working well.

Arfa

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 4:54 am
From: Meat Plow

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 02:59:25 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> Arfa Daily wrote:
>>
>> "Michael A. Terrell" ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote in message
>> news:Jo2dnfqSRvF9IOPRnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@earthlink.com... ?
>> ? Arfa Daily wrote:
>> ??
>> ?? "Michael A. Terrell" ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote in message
>> ?? news:m5ednfqzQtE_8ePRnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@earthlink.com... ?? ?
>> ?? ? Arfa Daily wrote:
>> ?? ??
>> ?? ?? Well Jim, that was why I used the word "potentially", but judging
>> by ?? the
>> ?? ?? size of the pins used to couple the power supply's output into
>> the ?? ?? board -
>> ?? ?? if you've been following the thread, you will recall that I
>> previously ?? ?? described them as being of the size you would find on
>> the line cord ?? for a
>> ?? ?? kettle - then I wouldn't say that there was too much in the way
>> of ?? ?? reserve.
>> ?? ?
>> ?? ? "The size you would find on the line cord for a kettle" doesn't
>> have ?? ? much meaning in the US.
>> ??
>> ?? Why is that ? You have electric kettles in your kitchens - I've used
>> ?? them.
>> ?
>> ?
>> ? I've never seen one. Even Coffee pots are rare these days. ?
>> ?
>> ?? Or don't you call them kettles ?. OK, anyway, if it's a better ??
>> description,
>> ?? the size of the round ground pin on a line cord that has a three pin
>> ?? plug.
>> ?? Is that more meaningful ? 3/16" diameter maybe ? 4mm ? ?
>> ?
>> ? 3/16" is between AWG 5 ? AWG 4. 4 mm is between AWG 7 ? AWG 6.
>> How ? much current do those kettles draw? ?
>> ?
>> ? --
>>
>> Typical UK kettle is 2 - 3kW so 8 to 12 amps or thereabouts. Now, I'm
>> really confused that you say that you've never seen one. How do you
>> boil water for a cup of tea, or a cup of instant coffee?
>
>
> On the gas or electric stove. A lot of people heat the water in a
> microwave. Fast and efficient.

I've evolved into the single cup K style or K-Cup Keurig machine made by
Cuisinart. Mine turns on at 5:am water is ready to brew in 2 minutes.
Place k-cup in head (could be coffee, chi-latte, hot choc, Earl Grey,)
close head and hit brew. In 45 seconds you have 12 oz of your favorite
brew. I shelved my Cuisinart Grind and Brew conventional 12 cup machine
several months ago. You can buy k-cups filled with your favorite or use
the k-cup adapter and spoon in your favorite grind.

Oh and about heating water in the microwave. There is a phenomena called
hyper-boil that I'm sure you know about. Got to be careful

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 6:03 am
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 9/2/2010 6:54 AM, Meat Plow wrote:
> Oh and about heating water in the microwave. There is a phenomena called
> hyper-boil that I'm sure you know about. Got to be careful

http://www.snopes.com/science/microwave.asp

Yeah, but your odds of having this happen are about the same
as flashing your high beams at oncoming traffic and getting
killed as a result of a gang initiation.

Jeff

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 6:17 am
From: Meat Plow

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 08:03:49 -0500, Jeffrey Angus wrote:

> On 9/2/2010 6:54 AM, Meat Plow wrote:
>> Oh and about heating water in the microwave. There is a phenomena
>> called hyper-boil that I'm sure you know about. Got to be careful
>
> http://www.snopes.com/science/microwave.asp
>
> Yeah, but your odds of having this happen are about the same as flashing
> your high beams at oncoming traffic and getting killed as a result of a
> gang initiation.
>

Some parts of the country that's a real possibility. And you wouldn't
even have to flash your lights.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 7:38 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Meat Plow wrote:
>
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 02:59:25 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> > Arfa Daily wrote:
> >>
> >> "Michael A. Terrell" ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote in message
> >> news:Jo2dnfqSRvF9IOPRnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@earthlink.com... ?
> >> ? Arfa Daily wrote:
> >> ??
> >> ?? "Michael A. Terrell" ?mike.terrell@earthlink.net? wrote in message
> >> ?? news:m5ednfqzQtE_8ePRnZ2dnUVZ_qWdnZ2d@earthlink.com... ?? ?
> >> ?? ? Arfa Daily wrote:
> >> ?? ??
> >> ?? ?? Well Jim, that was why I used the word "potentially", but judging
> >> by ?? the
> >> ?? ?? size of the pins used to couple the power supply's output into
> >> the ?? ?? board -
> >> ?? ?? if you've been following the thread, you will recall that I
> >> previously ?? ?? described them as being of the size you would find on
> >> the line cord ?? for a
> >> ?? ?? kettle - then I wouldn't say that there was too much in the way
> >> of ?? ?? reserve.
> >> ?? ?
> >> ?? ? "The size you would find on the line cord for a kettle" doesn't
> >> have ?? ? much meaning in the US.
> >> ??
> >> ?? Why is that ? You have electric kettles in your kitchens - I've used
> >> ?? them.
> >> ?
> >> ?
> >> ? I've never seen one. Even Coffee pots are rare these days. ?
> >> ?
> >> ?? Or don't you call them kettles ?. OK, anyway, if it's a better ??
> >> description,
> >> ?? the size of the round ground pin on a line cord that has a three pin
> >> ?? plug.
> >> ?? Is that more meaningful ? 3/16" diameter maybe ? 4mm ? ?
> >> ?
> >> ? 3/16" is between AWG 5 ? AWG 4. 4 mm is between AWG 7 ? AWG 6.
> >> How ? much current do those kettles draw? ?
> >> ?
> >> ? --
> >>
> >> Typical UK kettle is 2 - 3kW so 8 to 12 amps or thereabouts. Now, I'm
> >> really confused that you say that you've never seen one. How do you
> >> boil water for a cup of tea, or a cup of instant coffee?
> >
> >
> > On the gas or electric stove. A lot of people heat the water in a
> > microwave. Fast and efficient.
>
> I've evolved into the single cup K style or K-Cup Keurig machine made by
> Cuisinart. Mine turns on at 5:am water is ready to brew in 2 minutes.
> Place k-cup in head (could be coffee, chi-latte, hot choc, Earl Grey,)
> close head and hit brew. In 45 seconds you have 12 oz of your favorite
> brew. I shelved my Cuisinart Grind and Brew conventional 12 cup machine
> several months ago. You can buy k-cups filled with your favorite or use
> the k-cup adapter and spoon in your favorite grind.
>
> Oh and about heating water in the microwave. There is a phenomena called
> hyper-boil that I'm sure you know about. Got to be careful

I let things sit for 30 seconds or more before I remove them from a
microwave.

I don't drink coffee, and I can't find the tea I like, except as a
concentrate. The price has doubled in the last year, so when i run out
of what I have, I doubt that I'll buy more.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 9:54 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 02:41:15 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>The soldering under the BGAs letting go, is the commonest problem with both
>the Sony PS3 ( "yellow light of death") and the X-Box 360 ("red ring of
>death")
>
>Those names for the conditions refer to the behaviour of the front panel
>indicator LEDs when the faults that result, show themselves.
>
>I am quite convinced that the slow running of the fan at idle, is a major
>contributory factor in the failing of the BGA soldering.

On the other foot, I suspect that a high air flow fan will make it
worse. The problem is NOT that the BGA is flexing with increasing
temperatures. It's that the PCB underneath the BGA is flexing.
Stabilizing the temperature of the BGA is probably useful, but unless
the PCB is also stabilized, it will bend, bulge, buckle, twist, or
otherwise go through various contortions trying deal with the
temperature difference between the BGA and the PCB. If the
differential temperature is large enough, the PCB may bulge enough to
tear way from the BGA. Again, the BGA does not move, the PCB does.

Now, add a high air flow fan into the picture and we have a larger
temperature differential. The air flow will probably do a fair job of
cooling the PCB because of the comparatively smaller mass of the PCB.
The thermal conductivity of G10/FR4 isn't all that wonderful,
resulting in a localized hot spot. With a larger difference between
the BGA area and the surrounding PCB, the result is a larger PCB bulge
with PCB air cooling. I've seen PCB's (usually motherboards) with
permanent bulges under BGA's from this effect.

For entertainment, take any PCB, heat it in the middle with a heat
gun, and watch the bulge form. It's that bulge that's ripping the
BGA's apart. Extra credit to laptop manufacturers, that add heat
sinks to the BGA, and then mechanically connects the heat sink to the
frame. When the board bends, it will literally tear the BGA off the
PCB, since the heat sink can't move with the board.

In the instructions for hot air reflowing of BGA's, there's usually a
section on pre-heating and slow cool down of the PCB. The idea is to
not tear the BGA ball apart from differential thermal expansion
between the large thermal mass of the BGA and the comparatively
smaller mass of the PCB. It's exactly like moving a solder connection
while it's cooling. You get a "cold" solder joint.

Incidentally, I once designed a 150 watt 2-30Mhz HF power amplifier.
After about a year of normal use, we started seeing failures caused by
the power transistor screws coming loose. Suspecting cold flow, I
worked on improving the grip with stainless inserts. This worked,
but now produced failures in the ceramic case power transistors. The
clue was when a PA module arrived with all the ceramic lids popped off
the transistors, but still working. Weird(tm).

After a dozen bad guesses, I determined that PCB expansion and
contraction was initially causing the loose screws. When the screws
were properly secured, the next weakest link was ripping the leads out
of the power transistor case, causing the glued lid to pop off. The
problem was solved by slightly pre-bending the power transistor leads
in a fixture so that PCB thermal expansion would be absorbed by the
bends. I still do this even on TO220 packages, which can have the
same problem. Too bad it can't be done with BGA packages.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 10:16 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 09:54:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>The thermal conductivity of G10/FR4 isn't all that wonderful,
(...)

Ok, let's do the numbers. The coefficient of thermal expansion for
G10/FR4 is:
1*10^-5 cm/cm/C
That means a 1 cm long piece of G10/FR4, will expand 1*10^-5 cm for
every degree C of temperature differential.

So, we have a big fat BGA chip, that's about 5cm across. It's running
hot with a bottom temperature of about 80C. Assuming the PCB is
running at room temp of 25C, that's a 55C differential temperature.
Over the diameter of the BGA, that's
125*10^-5 cm
movement of the PCB.

Solder balls come in all manner of sizes, but my guess(tm) that for a
1mm pitch BGA, a 0.4mm ball is appropriate. When soldered, the ball
will remain about the same diameter, but the height will be reduced to
about 0.1mm.

The angle that the ball moves over temperature is:
angle = arctan ( 125*10^-5 cm / 0.01cm ) = arctan 0.125
angle = 7 degrees
which is a fair amount of ball rotation. Do that often enough, and
the ball will "roll" itself off the pad. For a sanity check, solder a
rigid bar of something to a flat surface, and bend it back and forth
about 7 degrees. It will take a while, but it will eventually break.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: WORLD BEST PICKS
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/95b3d75e1daf07ba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 1:18 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: 66 Deep hoody made in china (http://www.brandtrade66.com )
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5b3f821f2d88b341?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 1:38 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: I GOT $5000 FROM PAYPAL BY SIMPLE HACK.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a53bffc1b93a337b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 3:39 am
From: sukanya

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Technics SA-310 Receiver Fixed!
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/266f00b3a43b6910?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 4:58 am
From: Meat Plow

On Wed, 01 Sep 2010 23:39:30 -0500, William R. Walsh wrote:

> A follow up to my follow up...one thing that I've noticed is how hot the
> various "Computer Drive" receivers run even when operating normally. So
> I found my IR non-contact thermometer and had a look at the newly
> repaired SA-310.
>
> At idle for around 20 minutes, the temperature of the heatsink had risen
> to 130 degrees Fahrenheit (54 degrees Celsius)! And the unit was just
> *idling*. The hybrid's internals are probably a good ten degrees hotter
> still. Call me picky, but that is not what I'd call the recipe for
> semiconductor longevity! Ouch! (Just how did the last hybrid--presumably
> the original--manage to live so long?)
>
> By comparison, the Class AB SA-120 (with its identical power rating)
> idles around 88-90 degrees F after being on for a while. Its STK module
> also has a much smaller heatsink.
>
> For now I have made a "contraption" consisting of a DC muffin fan
> affixed to the bottom of the SA-310 using bubble wrap on the corners to
> stop the case from vibrating. With this setup, and two books at each end
> of the receiver to give the fan clearance, the temperature never gets
> above 105 degrees F even with the cover on. Most areas of the heatsink
> are slightly cooler than that (in the high 80s or lower-middle 90s).
>
> Later, when I get some free time, I plan to install two small fans on
> the heatsink, helping to pull air over it and hopefully keep that hybrid
> alive and comfortable.
>
> It has been suggested that minorly violent and mostly non-destructive
> disassembly of an STK-series hybrid amplifier is possible. Some people
> even make the claim of having repaired the bad parts within. I may just
> have to try it if the old hybrid hasn't walked off yet.
>
> The DC offset as measured at the speaker terminals (no source playing,
> no speakers attached of course) is between 8-12mV for both channels now.
> I believe the unit to be fixed. :-)
>
> William

Do you have the temp specs of the replacement STK?

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 6:33 am
From: "William R. Walsh"

Hi!

> Do you have the temp specs of the replacement STK?

No, I don't. I've never even been able to find a datasheet for either
of the STK-2038 II or STK-2048 II modules, nor anything that seemed
closely related.

Of those I did find (for the Series I modules), I don't recall seeing
any temperature information. But it's been a while and those copies
were pretty illegible.

I was only a little bit surprised to find that something like this
wasn't included with the replacement. In this case, the replacement
module is actually a new old stock genuine Panasonic replacement.

William

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 7:10 am
From: Meat Plow

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 06:33:12 -0700, William R. Walsh wrote:

> Hi!
>
>> Do you have the temp specs of the replacement STK?
>
> No, I don't. I've never even been able to find a datasheet for either of
> the STK-2038 II or STK-2048 II modules, nor anything that seemed closely
> related.
>
> Of those I did find (for the Series I modules), I don't recall seeing
> any temperature information. But it's been a while and those copies were
> pretty illegible.
>
> I was only a little bit surprised to find that something like this
> wasn't included with the replacement. In this case, the replacement
> module is actually a new old stock genuine Panasonic replacement.
>
> William

A PDF at alldatasheet.com shows a 2040 as having a max junction
temp of 150 C. That's 302 F. I would guess most are the same.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

==============================================================================
TOPIC: sharp TV's recalled
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/938ef677022187af?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 5:50 am
From: bob u

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bob

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Supergluing your fingers together
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/27d3b5cbe57935fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 6:22 am
From: "N_Cook"

Surprising I've never done it before . Thumb and second finger firmly glued
to either side of a connecctor. I tried methylated spirits first but no
effect seemingly. Then dilute acetone as nail varnish remover. I was
concerned about being too long on the skin so some cotton wool balls of
acetone around both areas and a Q-tip soaked in acetone, with a rotating
wedge-like motion, cautiously wedging skin from connector worked, but anyone
elses experiences/advice for the next time? Anyone ever glued one hand to
the other ?

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 6:57 am
From: Ron

On 02/09/2010 14:22, N_Cook wrote:
> Surprising I've never done it before . Thumb and second finger firmly glued
> to either side of a connecctor. I tried methylated spirits first but no
> effect seemingly. Then dilute acetone as nail varnish remover. I was
> concerned about being too long on the skin so some cotton wool balls of
> acetone around both areas and a Q-tip soaked in acetone, with a rotating
> wedge-like motion, cautiously wedging skin from connector worked, but anyone
> elses experiences/advice for the next time? Anyone ever glued one hand to
> the other ?
>
>
I'd take it as a warning ;)

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 7:02 am
From: Meat Plow

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 14:22:52 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

> Surprising I've never done it before . Thumb and second finger firmly
> glued to either side of a connecctor. I tried methylated spirits first
> but no effect seemingly. Then dilute acetone as nail varnish remover. I
> was concerned about being too long on the skin so some cotton wool balls
> of acetone around both areas and a Q-tip soaked in acetone, with a
> rotating wedge-like motion, cautiously wedging skin from connector
> worked, but anyone elses experiences/advice for the next time? Anyone
> ever glued one hand to the other ?

I glue large cuts together. From what I've heard/read Cyanoacrylate was
developed as a substitute for stitching wounds together on the
battlefield during the Vietnam war. Little wonder it bonds skin so
thoroughly. It's also used in its medical counterpart for some surgeries.

Back to gluing cuts. I was sharpening a large hunting knife and managed
to cut the side of my right thumb to the bone. Cut was about 2.5cm and I
could see bone and other structures underneath. Didn't look like I cut
anything else and my thumb still worked ok so rather than getting it
stitched I used a grade of cyano we use for guitar work. Got the bleeding
stopped, wasn't much to begin with. Applied the glue and the cut was
closed immediately. I put cloth tape around the joint so the thumb
wouldn't flex as that was where the cut occurred. A week later the cut
had healed well enough to remove the tape. Now I have a scar but it is a
straight line. Be happy to upload a pic of it.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 7:24 am
From: "N_Cook"

Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.09.02.14.01.32@hahahahahahahah.nutz.I.am...
> On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 14:22:52 +0100, N_Cook wrote:
>
> > Surprising I've never done it before . Thumb and second finger firmly
> > glued to either side of a connecctor. I tried methylated spirits first
> > but no effect seemingly. Then dilute acetone as nail varnish remover. I
> > was concerned about being too long on the skin so some cotton wool balls
> > of acetone around both areas and a Q-tip soaked in acetone, with a
> > rotating wedge-like motion, cautiously wedging skin from connector
> > worked, but anyone elses experiences/advice for the next time? Anyone
> > ever glued one hand to the other ?
>
> I glue large cuts together. From what I've heard/read Cyanoacrylate was
> developed as a substitute for stitching wounds together on the
> battlefield during the Vietnam war. Little wonder it bonds skin so
> thoroughly. It's also used in its medical counterpart for some surgeries.
>
> Back to gluing cuts. I was sharpening a large hunting knife and managed
> to cut the side of my right thumb to the bone. Cut was about 2.5cm and I
> could see bone and other structures underneath. Didn't look like I cut
> anything else and my thumb still worked ok so rather than getting it
> stitched I used a grade of cyano we use for guitar work. Got the bleeding
> stopped, wasn't much to begin with. Applied the glue and the cut was
> closed immediately. I put cloth tape around the joint so the thumb
> wouldn't flex as that was where the cut occurred. A week later the cut
> had healed well enough to remove the tape. Now I have a scar but it is a
> straight line. Be happy to upload a pic of it.
>
>
>
> --
> Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

re sig
Its also used for the chance of CSI lifting murderer's fingerprints off the
skin off dead bodies. That is one of the reasons that a tent goes over a
body outdoors. So heaters can go inside and evaporate Cyanoacrylate in a
confined space.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 7:52 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> From what I've heard/read, cyanoacrylate was developed as a
> substitute for stitching wounds together on the battlefield during
> the Vietnam war.

It was actually developed by Kodak in 1942, and was originally used to
splice film.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 8:05 am
From: Meat Plow

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 07:52:48 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

>> From what I've heard/read, cyanoacrylate was developed as a substitute
>> for stitching wounds together on the battlefield during the Vietnam
>> war.
>
> It was actually developed by Kodak in 1942, and was originally used to
> splice film.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate

Well dammit I won't have that story to tell my grand children.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 9:23 am
From: bok118@zonnet.nl (Gerard Bok)

On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 14:22:52 +0100, "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk>
wrote:

>Surprising I've never done it before . Thumb and second finger firmly glued
>to either side of a connecctor.

To dissolve cyanoacrylate you need (warm) water and patience.
Or rather: patience and warm water as the most important
ingredient should go first.

One other thing to notice: superglue may be a marble in some
cases, it has very poor resistance to water.

>Anyone ever glued one hand to the other ?

We may be sloppy but not that stupid ;-)
You may however drop by the nearest convent and ask 'Why?'.

--
Kind regards,
Gerard Bok

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 10:09 am
From: Smitty Two

In article <i5o8e6$9qk$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:

> Surprising I've never done it before . Thumb and second finger firmly glued
> to either side of a connecctor. I tried methylated spirits first but no
> effect seemingly. Then dilute acetone as nail varnish remover. I was
> concerned about being too long on the skin so some cotton wool balls of
> acetone around both areas and a Q-tip soaked in acetone, with a rotating
> wedge-like motion, cautiously wedging skin from connector worked, but anyone
> elses experiences/advice for the next time? Anyone ever glued one hand to
> the other ?

They do make a specific solvent for CA; we keep a bottle on hand at the
shop. I have no idea what's in it, but it works very well on skin and
other things, too. We do a couple of assembly jobs involving CA and by
the time you've worked with it for a few hours at a time, you're pretty
much guaranteed to have the stuff all over at least 9 of your fingers.
The solvent cleans it right up.

Physiologically it's pretty innocuous stuff. Besides gluing cuts
together well, I've heard of people mistaking it for a bottle of eye
drops, and it hasn't done any real damage. Inconvenient to have your eye
glued shut for a while though.

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 11:24 am
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)

In article <pan.2010.09.02.14.01.32@hahahahahahahah.nutz.I.am>,
Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I glue large cuts together. From what I've heard/read Cyanoacrylate was
>developed as a substitute for stitching wounds together on the
>battlefield during the Vietnam war. Little wonder it bonds skin so
>thoroughly. It's also used in its medical counterpart for some surgeries.

Yup... although the off-the-shelf cyanoacrylate has some amount of
toxicity to skin cells, and is not ideal for this purpose. A lot of
people do use it as an emergency / field dressing, though... I
understand that rock climbers often carry a tube.

Medical skin glue is based on a slightly different cyanoacrylate
(butyl rather than methyl, IIRC) and is easier on the skin cells.
It's not widely available, though, except as a medical or vetrinary
adhesive in expensive single-use ampoules).

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 11:20 am
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)

>Surprising I've never done it before . Thumb and second finger firmly glued
>to either side of a connecctor. I tried methylated spirits first but no
>effect seemingly. Then dilute acetone as nail varnish remover. I was
>concerned about being too long on the skin so some cotton wool balls of
>acetone around both areas and a Q-tip soaked in acetone, with a rotating
>wedge-like motion, cautiously wedging skin from connector worked, but anyone
>elses experiences/advice for the next time?

Keeping a bottle of superglue debonder around is a cheap investment.
If you go to a hobby store which carries a selection of cyanoacrylate
glues (usually of different viscosities and bonding speeds) you ought
to find a supply of debonder in the same rack.

> Anyone ever glued one hand to
>the other ?

Only students of modern Zen koans.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HOT PHOTOS
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/aa5b1c83bbb34574?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Sep 2 2010 8:12 am
From: SRAVANTHI LOVE

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ANUSHKA UNBELIVABLE PHOTOS

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NAMITHA EXTORDINARY PHOTOS