sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* 2nd try - ABB inverter schematic - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/65069b9c575ec4a1?hl=en
* Smoke detector testing - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6ef9dd7cb94ece9a?hl=en
* LCD conductive tape - 2 messages, 2 authors
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2nd try - ABB inverter schematic
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/65069b9c575ec4a1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 9 2010 12:46 pm
From: "Dave H."

"Jamie" wrote...
>>
>>
> Being obsolete should tell you something...
>
> the small line of ABB drives are not very good for the
> price they're asking..
>
> You can get a VS1MD from Baldor that does 1 Hp up to
> 30 HP. the 1hp is around $330 for a 480 3 phase type.
> (Don't believe the pricing you see on their site)
>
> These little drives have a lot of operating abilities how
> ever, if one should go bad, beyond a simple obvious visual
> defect that can be corrected, its in the bin it goes.
>
>

Hi Jamie,

I think it's probably obsolete because parts have become smaller and much
cheaper over the years? The ACS300 does everything the newer ones do, but in
a larger case and seemingly with no spares or support beyond an installers'
and operators' manual.

My main objection (other than preferring to repair and re-use rather than
send to landfill) to buying a new VFD is that the ABB is easily hacked to
fool it into thinking it has 415V 3-phase input when all I have is 240V
single-phase (I've done a mod to the input, now a voltage-doubler) - newer
ones use 600V or so electrolytics across the input rectifier whereas the
older ones have 2 off 380V rated cap's in series, with a convenient rail to
put the neutral line onto... With the 3-phase, 3-speed (multi-winding) 3HP
415V-only motor in my lathe it's way less hassle and expense to fix the VFD
I've got than replace with new - 240v to 415v converting VFDs here in the UK
start at around �500 / $800, more if you want anything over 2HP... and
that's more than I've spent (so far) on the lathe and VFD combined :)

I could just use it as-is (it powers the motor OK and the fwd/rev and
variable speed work), but I'd like to set the motor parameters to match and
sort out braking etc. - which needs a working programming panel!

I guess it's out with the AVO, stereo 'scope and soldering iron if no-one
can suggest a source for the service manual or schematic - rats!

Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 9 2010 1:33 pm
From: Jamie

Dave H. wrote:

> "Jamie" wrote...
>
>>>
>> Being obsolete should tell you something...
>>
>> the small line of ABB drives are not very good for the
>>price they're asking..
>>
>> You can get a VS1MD from Baldor that does 1 Hp up to
>> 30 HP. the 1hp is around $330 for a 480 3 phase type.
>> (Don't believe the pricing you see on their site)
>>
>> These little drives have a lot of operating abilities how
>>ever, if one should go bad, beyond a simple obvious visual
>>defect that can be corrected, its in the bin it goes.
>>
>>
>
>
> Hi Jamie,
>
> I think it's probably obsolete because parts have become smaller and much
> cheaper over the years? The ACS300 does everything the newer ones do, but in
> a larger case and seemingly with no spares or support beyond an installers'
> and operators' manual.
>
> My main objection (other than preferring to repair and re-use rather than
> send to landfill) to buying a new VFD is that the ABB is easily hacked to
> fool it into thinking it has 415V 3-phase input when all I have is 240V
> single-phase (I've done a mod to the input, now a voltage-doubler) - newer
> ones use 600V or so electrolytics across the input rectifier whereas the
> older ones have 2 off 380V rated cap's in series, with a convenient rail to
> put the neutral line onto... With the 3-phase, 3-speed (multi-winding) 3HP
> 415V-only motor in my lathe it's way less hassle and expense to fix the VFD
> I've got than replace with new - 240v to 415v converting VFDs here in the UK
> start at around �500 / $800, more if you want anything over 2HP... and
> that's more than I've spent (so far) on the lathe and VFD combined :)
>
> I could just use it as-is (it powers the motor OK and the fwd/rev and
> variable speed work), but I'd like to set the motor parameters to match and
> sort out braking etc. - which needs a working programming panel!
>
> I guess it's out with the AVO, stereo 'scope and soldering iron if no-one
> can suggest a source for the service manual or schematic - rats!
>
> Dave H.
you could always try the software used to program them. it may work..

As for those units working on single phase. A lot of the micro
inverter drives allows you to operate on A and B phases. Some you need
to make sure you turn off the Phase loss fault condition so the drive
will ignore it.. When you do this, you will get 3 phase out, how ever,
the drive will not do its max rating. You just need to have a little
head room on the drive.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 9 2010 3:05 pm
From: "Dave H."

"Jamie" wrote...
> you could always try the software used to program them. it may work..
>
> As for those units working on single phase. A lot of the micro inverter
> drives allows you to operate on A and B phases. Some you need to make sure
> you turn off the Phase loss fault condition so the drive will ignore it..
> When you do this, you will get 3 phase out, how ever, the drive will not
> do its max rating. You just need to have a little head room on the drive.
>

If there *were* any progamming software, perhaps... and there's no
programming interface other than the (currently dead) front panel, apart
from a bus into the microcontroller which I don't have an interface for !

The issue isn't the single-phase input, it's the conversion from 240V to
415V, which the newer VFDs won't do, as the input capacitors are straight
across the rectifiers and hence can't be rewired into a voltage-doubler. The
ABB I have is rated for 5HP on 415V 3-phase, so is fine running a 3HP motor
from (doubled) 240V single-phase.

Thanks anyhow,
Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)

"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Smoke detector testing
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6ef9dd7cb94ece9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 9 2010 1:20 pm
From: "Trevor Wilson"

"klem kedidelhopper" <captainvideo462009@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:dfc8e7f6-b186-4e4c-9b6d-8d343b997d2e@l20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> We do fire alarm system inspections. To test smoke detectors we use a
> spray can which contains an inocuous compound.. When sprayed a few
> feet below a smoke detector it emits a mist which temporarily obstucts
> the sense chamber in a photoelectic detector and sets it off. The mist
> quickly clears and the detector returns to quiescent conditions.
> I recently offered to do annual testing for the local church and
> synagogue in town as a donation. Both sanctuaries have high cathedral
> ceilings. The detectors cannot be reached even from ladders. I have
> learned that there is an extention pole assembly with a clamp on the
> end to hold the spray can. The basic kit takes you up to 10 feet. Then
> you add extention poles after that. The nozzle of the can is operated
> by way of a cable or linkage through the hollow fiberglass pole from
> below and sprays the can. I don't mind donating my time however buying
> the equipment which is needed to reach these detectors in the
> sanctuaries in both buildings will cost me over 400.00
> I was thinking of trying to adapt something but I'm not sure what. I
> was wondering if this has ever come up in any other trade that someone
> may know of. Any advice will be most sincerely appreciated. Lenny.

**You're a fool. Churches get people to do stuff for nothing all the time.
Just don't do it. They're in business to suck money away from the gullible.
Charge them like any other client.

Awhile ago I quote a church on a sound system. They didn't like my quote and
got some idiots to do the job for free. Now I have to come in and fix it up
so it works properly. It'll cost them more than the original quote.

Pay peanuts, get monkeys and all that.

Charge them for the job at your normal rates, plus any extra equipment. Do
not be a patsy for these cults.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

==============================================================================
TOPIC: LCD conductive tape
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/add3d9217314972f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 9 2010 3:31 pm
From: Mark

> > It's not zebra strip.
> > It's not flexible flat cable FFC which is actual wire.
> > This stuff is actually adhesive tape with conductive (black)  ink.
>
> > What is this stuff called so I can search for it?
>
> > Anybody seen it for sale anywhere?
>
> > thanks
> > Mark
>

>
> If it were me though, I would wedge foam in there like others have
> suggested.
>
> -Mike

Spehro, and the others..

thank you..."heat seal connectors" is the term.

http://www.yipshing.com.hk/ok/lcd_connector.htm

I should have just arranged something to press and hold it in place
but I already pulled it off, so I'll chalk this on up to lesson
learned. It was a $5 clock so no big deal.

If you come across this stuff, do NOT pull it off, that will only make
it worse.

Mark

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Nov 10 2010 12:27 am
From: "N_Cook"

Mark <makolber@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:caf5c3f8-b62b-41fc-8449-972952da2e5b@26g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...

> > It's not zebra strip.
> > It's not flexible flat cable FFC which is actual wire.
> > This stuff is actually adhesive tape with conductive (black) ink.
>
> > What is this stuff called so I can search for it?
>
> > Anybody seen it for sale anywhere?
>
> > thanks
> > Mark
>

>
> If it were me though, I would wedge foam in there like others have
> suggested.
>
> -Mike

Spehro, and the others..

thank you..."heat seal connectors" is the term.

http://www.yipshing.com.hk/ok/lcd_connector.htm

I should have just arranged something to press and hold it in place
but I already pulled it off, so I'll chalk this on up to lesson
learned. It was a $5 clock so no big deal.

If you come across this stuff, do NOT pull it off, that will only make
it worse.

Mark

&&&&&&&&

I was just going to ask if anyone had a URL for this stuff

I wonder if there is a living to be made by a native English speaker
technical author contacting these Chinese and HK companies and charging for
tidying up their "english"

Anyone happen to know what the bonding chemical is ?

==============================================================================
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TOPIC: RIP
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bc20f51aa452eb52?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 9 2010 5:29 pm
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ibbhgm$gtd$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Ironically, he gave me his Tektronix multimeter and 'scope.
>> I haven't had the heart to even open the box.
>
> What's ironic about that? He'd want you to use them, and have good
> memories
> of him while you were using them.
>
>

Well, it's a bit ironic because as several of the regulars here are aware, I
am a multimeter junkie. I have more damn meters than you can shake a stick
at - old, new, cheap, expensive, etc.

His Tektronix is a high end 50,000 count dual display model, and would be
the jewel in the crown, so to speak, but I might not be able to bring myself
to use it.

So yes, ironic. Sorry I wasn't clear.

BTW I was reciting his history from memory and made a mistake - it was
Scanlon Communications he worked for in Traverse City...

Thanks to all for your kind wishes.

Mark Z.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 9 2010 5:30 pm
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"Chuck" <ch@deja.net> wrote in message
news:oojid616eibjple6d1i4thv1i076796qc2@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 9 Nov 2010 06:26:33 -0600, "Mark Zacharias"
> <mark_zacharias@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>I would like to take a moment to tell you all a bit about my brother.
>>
>>Jay Zacharias passed away November 5 in Seattle, Washington. He was 56
>>years
>>old.
>>
>>He was an accomplished broadcast engineer for Tribune Broadcasting,
>>Journal
>>Broadcasting, and at various times for each of the regular over-the-air
>>stations in Wichita, KS (USA). He supervised the MTS stereo audio
>>conversions for KPTS and KWCH in Wichita, and later Journal and Tribune's
>>conversions to the digital broadcast formats in Traverse City MI. and in
>>Seattle. In each case he did not merely "supervise"; he was hands-on
>>physically involved.
>>
>>In the 80's and early 90's Jay was a product support engineer for the old
>>Ampex Magnetic Tape Division, and supervised the restoration of many old
>>analog masters which had deteriorated with binder problems, and was an
>>expert on the subject.
>>
>>He is survived by his wife Mary, and two daughters (well, and me...)
>>
>>Jay was suffering liver cancer, and knew the end was coming. You never
>>could
>>imagine anyone handling this so well, a tribute to his belief in a life
>>after. He did his best to make sure his work and personal affairs were in
>>the best possible order. He was able to work up until the last couple
>>weeks.
>>
>>Ironically, he gave me his Tektronix multimeter and 'scope. I haven't had
>>the heart to even open the box.
>>
>>RIP bro'. You will be missed.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Mark Z.
>
>
> Sorry for your loss Mark. My wife is battling liver cancer at the
> moment and it is an unpleasant struggle. Chuck

Terrible. I hope her outlook is hopeful.

Mark Z.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 9 2010 5:56 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4cd93df7$0$17379$c3e8da3$b280bf18@news.astraweb.com...
>
>
>
> I would like to take a moment to tell you all a bit about my brother.
>
> Jay Zacharias passed away November 5 in Seattle, Washington. He was 56
> years old.
>
> He was an accomplished broadcast engineer for Tribune Broadcasting,
> Journal Broadcasting, and at various times for each of the regular
> over-the-air stations in Wichita, KS (USA). He supervised the MTS stereo
> audio conversions for KPTS and KWCH in Wichita, and later Journal and
> Tribune's conversions to the digital broadcast formats in Traverse City
> MI. and in Seattle. In each case he did not merely "supervise"; he was
> hands-on physically involved.
>
> In the 80's and early 90's Jay was a product support engineer for the old
> Ampex Magnetic Tape Division, and supervised the restoration of many old
> analog masters which had deteriorated with binder problems, and was an
> expert on the subject.
>
> He is survived by his wife Mary, and two daughters (well, and me...)
>
> Jay was suffering liver cancer, and knew the end was coming. You never
> could imagine anyone handling this so well, a tribute to his belief in a
> life after. He did his best to make sure his work and personal affairs
> were in the best possible order. He was able to work up until the last
> couple weeks.
>
> Ironically, he gave me his Tektronix multimeter and 'scope. I haven't had
> the heart to even open the box.
>
> RIP bro'. You will be missed.
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Z.
>

Feelings for your loss as passed between us privately earlier in the week
...

Arfa

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 9 2010 10:53 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Mark Zacharias wrote:
>
> I would like to take a moment to tell you all a bit about my brother.
>
> Jay Zacharias passed away November 5 in Seattle, Washington. He was 56 years
> old.
>
> He was an accomplished broadcast engineer for Tribune Broadcasting, Journal
> Broadcasting, and at various times for each of the regular over-the-air
> stations in Wichita, KS (USA). He supervised the MTS stereo audio
> conversions for KPTS and KWCH in Wichita, and later Journal and Tribune's
> conversions to the digital broadcast formats in Traverse City MI. and in
> Seattle. In each case he did not merely "supervise"; he was hands-on
> physically involved.
>
> In the 80's and early 90's Jay was a product support engineer for the old
> Ampex Magnetic Tape Division, and supervised the restoration of many old
> analog masters which had deteriorated with binder problems, and was an
> expert on the subject.
>
> He is survived by his wife Mary, and two daughters (well, and me...)
>
> Jay was suffering liver cancer, and knew the end was coming. You never could
> imagine anyone handling this so well, a tribute to his belief in a life
> after. He did his best to make sure his work and personal affairs were in
> the best possible order. He was able to work up until the last couple weeks.
>
> Ironically, he gave me his Tektronix multimeter and 'scope. I haven't had
> the heart to even open the box.
>
> RIP bro'. You will be missed.

My condolences, Mark. I have lost a family member to cancer, as
well.

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

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