sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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TOPIC: Learning Electrical Repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b65ce2f782c18000?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 1:15 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"

<hrhofmann@att.net> wrote in message
news:9974eb0a-d476-4d47-b2cb-4afeebeb55b9@q14g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 24, 5:55 pm, "Gareth Magennis" <sound.serv...@btconnect.com>
> wrote:
>> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>
>> news:ick1pp$iu7$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >>>> I recently inherited a stack of electronics textbooks (from a
>> >>>> dumpster), including a copy of "Basic Theory and Application
>> >>>> of Transistors", a Dover reprint of a 1959 Army textbook.
>>
>> >>> "Solid gold to make you feel old!"
>> >>> Yes, I remember that book.
>>
>> >> So you'd probably agree that this is not the best book
>> >> for a beginner to learn about transistors from nowadays?
>>
>> > Probably not. Someone else expressed their misgivings.
>>
>> > The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a college-level
>> > book. This requires understanding matrix transformations, but you'll
>> > have
>> > a
>> > better understanding.
>>
>> Hmm, I remember having to derive Schrodinger's equations from first
>> principles for my University exams.
>> Can't say that in all my years of repairing and designing electronic
>> equipment that this long forgotten knowledge has ever have been at all
>> useful.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I got my Master's degree MSEE from NYU (new york university) in 1961.
> Don't remember Schrodinger's equations.

I was at Uni in the late 70's/early 80's. I can't remember what part of
the Electronics/Electrical Engineering course required extensive knowledge
of Schrodingers doodlings, might have been transmission line systems
(microvaves etc)? Dunno. Nor do I care much.
I do remember a past exam question though which required the candidate to
completely prove one such doodling, which I learnt off by heart. Took
about 3 pages of maths. Couldn't see the point then, still can't now.

But I'm not bitter.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 4:38 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a
>> college-level book. This requires understanding matrix
>> transformations, but you'll have a better understanding.

> Hmm, I remember having to derive Schrodinger's equations
> from first principles for my University exams.
> Can't say that in all my years of repairing and designing
> electronic equipment that this long forgotten knowledge
> has ever have been at all useful.

What does Schrodinger have to do with circuit design, anyway?

The poster wanted to "learn about transistors". I think understanding at
least H parameters is worthwhile.

Offhand, I've never seen a book that covers transistor-circuit operation in
a simple way, or that discusses how one uses that knowledge when trouble
shooting.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 6:16 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:icllbk$plj$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> The "correct" way to learn about transistors is to find a
>>> college-level book. This requires understanding matrix
>>> transformations, but you'll have a better understanding.
>
>> Hmm, I remember having to derive Schrodinger's equations
>> from first principles for my University exams.
>> Can't say that in all my years of repairing and designing
>> electronic equipment that this long forgotten knowledge
>> has ever have been at all useful.
>
> What does Schrodinger have to do with circuit design, anyway?
>
> The poster wanted to "learn about transistors". I think understanding at
> least H parameters is worthwhile.
>

Schrodinger worked on the atomic structure of matter. If you really want to
know how a transistor really works (on a Semiconductor Theory basis), then
maybe he has some use.

My point was that some Electronics books may contain
information/theorys/mathematics not particularly relevent to circuit design
or repairing broken things.

Gareth.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 6:18 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> My point was that some Electronics books may contain
> information/theorys/mathematics not particularly relevent
> to circuit design or repairing broken things.

No argument. I've just never seen a book that thoroughly covers the basics
of electronic servicing in a clear and useful way.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 7:11 am
From: frank@notvalid.it

>
> Offhand, I've never seen a book that covers transistor-circuit operation in
> a simple way, or that discusses how one uses that knowledge when trouble
> shooting.

"The Art of Electronics" covers all that matters from simplest to complex
electronic circuits.
How to troubleshoot is another matter and probably comes from really
understanding how things should work in the first place.
One good text is "Troubleshooting Analog Circuits" by Bob Pease, but that's
not intended for newcomers to the electronic world (my opinion).
Best regards
Frank

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 8:38 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> One good text is "Troubleshooting Analog Circuits" by
> Bob Pease, but that's not intended for newcomers to
> the electronic world (my opinion).

I believe that is book focuses on correcting design problems, not fixing
existing equipment. (I have a copy, but have only browsed it.)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: older motherboard with intel chipset
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0e3adf44e483f1ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 2:29 am
From: mike

Meat Plow wrote:

> infinst.exe is just the Intel chipset driver. I've been dealing with Dell
> for 11 years and I've not seen a situation where XP Pro would not install
> on a Dell PC that came with XP Home installed. Only anti-piracy theme
> Dell has used was to protect their OEM operating system disc from being
> used to install on non-Dell computers.

Well, so much for that theory then...
So, how do you go about installing to a Dell puter with an Intel
chipset? Or am I totally f'dup in thinking that there's extra work
involved in getting a MS os working on an intel MB?

Mike

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 2:49 am
From: mike

Wild_Bill wrote:
> Don't you have any linux live CDs? These are very handy for trying out
> motherboards, or trying to do things that typical hack/spit M-soft products
> tend you give you a lot of grief over.

I guess I ought to try that, the reason I haven't so far is that when
I put a hard drive in that already has ubuntu installed on it I got
some really weird results, whereas it usually only takes a few extra
minutes for linux to find it's way around and then boot into a usuable
condition when put into a new (to me) machine.
>
> You might also try changing some of the settings in the BIOS setup. I dunno
> why a m-bd would be OS specific, but I suppose it's possible.

I guess that was a bad guess, now... I did update the BIOS, and
checked it out some, it's pretty spartan,
and when the configuration of the machine changes, it actually stalls
booting until you go into setup and make the changes and save it, I
hadn't seen that before.
>
> I encountered a FIC K8MC51G m-bd recently, that appears to have been made
> especially for the OEMs.. Emachines/Gateway/etc, and there don't appear to
> be any m-bd drivers available for it from FIC.
> Emachines' website has drivers for the chipset, modem, video for hardware
> specific to their machines.
>
Dell seems to be pretty good that way too - now I wonder how MS is
gonna handle it if I call up wanting to
activate a Dell MB with E-machine components and product key... or
should I even bother? Guess I'll see whether I can get Linux
installed or not first.

Mike

> --
> Cheers,
> WB

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 3:37 am
From: mike

mike wrote:

> I say it was a 'kinda successful install' because I can start it up
> in safe mode and do further set up to it, but it wants me to call MS
> product activation before it will boot in normal mode.

Hey again, just me replying to myself with new info - I installed SP2
while in safe mode and now
the puter boots into normal mode, but tells me I have to call for
product activation in 30 days. How nice of them...

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 6:01 am
From: baron

mike Inscribed thus:

>
>
> Meat Plow wrote:
>
>> infinst.exe is just the Intel chipset driver. I've been dealing with
>> Dell for 11 years and I've not seen a situation where XP Pro would
>> not install on a Dell PC that came with XP Home installed. Only
>> anti-piracy theme Dell has used was to protect their OEM operating
>> system disc from being used to install on non-Dell computers.
>
> Well, so much for that theory then...
> So, how do you go about installing to a Dell puter with an Intel
> chipset? Or am I totally f'dup in thinking that there's extra work
> involved in getting a MS os working on an intel MB?
>
> Mike

It shouldn't be any different to any other M/B !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 9:39 am
From: Adrian C

On 25/11/2010 11:37, mike wr
> the puter boots into normal mode, but tells me I have to call for
> product activation in 30 days. How nice of them...

Had you started with an actual Dell OEM OS installation CD instead of
eMachines restore disc, it would automatically self activate from its
knowledge of the BIOS signature. No manual entering of product keys
necessary.

I think you are running into some post install junk that the eMachines
CD is trying to push out. Note, a 'recovery/restore CD' and an 'OS
installation CD' may not be the same thing.

--
Adrian C

==============================================================================
TOPIC: RCF ART300
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/382fcef3b03fbc3f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 3:33 am
From: Ron

Does anyone have a schematic for the crossover, or know the resistor
values R1 to R7 for an ART 300 passive speaker please

Cheers
Ron

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 4:45 am
From: Ron

Ahaha belay that, I just found that the values are printed on the pcb
below the heatsink.

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TOPIC: OT: Video - Wack-A-Kitty - With Real Cats?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8fb21a5b02e445cc?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 3:47 am
From: RoadRunner

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TOPIC: AUSTRILIA JOBS TO CLICK THE LINK
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/81a0aad9ea3276b6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 3:56 am
From: "NITHYANANTHAN .ANAND"

http://123maza.com/35/pure418/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In-situ car battery charging
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2a91e579ca13d204?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 5:52 am
From: PeterD

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 19:02:14 -0800, mike <spamme0@go.com> wrote:

>
>Don't forget the strain relief on both ends so it will
>disconnect itself without "drama"
>when you back out of the garage without disconnecting the plug.

Smart move... Most larger vehicles (trucks) have a seven pin flat
blade connector that includes a battery pin. This pin can be used to
charge the battery, and if you disable the locking tab on the
connector (not the receptical) you can make it self disconnecting just
like on the space shuttle launches!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Linksys BEFSX41 Router
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a86d5f8be1d77191?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 5:54 am
From: PeterD

On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:23:15 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:21:57 +0000, Baron wrote:
>
>> Meat Plow Inscribed thus:
>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:41:29 +0000, root wrote:
>>>
>>>> The router doesn't see the WAN connection. Is there any hope that it
>>>> is fixable?
>>
>> Unfortunately that is quite a common problem. Often spikes on the
>> incoming line kill the circuit. You may find if your lucky that the
>> voltage arrester just behind the WAN socket is SC. Otherwise its just
>> usable as switch.
>
>What's your source for the common problem? The WAN connection usually
>ends up on the Ethernet connection of a DSL or Cable modem which itself
>should be protected. This can be verified by attaching the PC directly to
>the WAN connection and trying to ping the modem's default IP address for
>HTTP port configuration or trying to go to the modem config page at that
>address.

It happens. To me it was a nearby lightning strike that took out a
bunch of stuff. Didn't phase the DSL modem, but blew the Cisco
firewall and a switch behind it. Switches further down the stream were
untouched as well.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 5:59 am
From: baron

Meat Plow Inscribed thus:

> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:21:57 +0000, Baron wrote:
>
>> Meat Plow Inscribed thus:
>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:41:29 +0000, root wrote:
>>>
>>>> The router doesn't see the WAN connection. Is there any hope that
>>>> it is fixable?
>>
>> Unfortunately that is quite a common problem. Often spikes on the
>> incoming line kill the circuit. You may find if your lucky that the
>> voltage arrester just behind the WAN socket is SC. Otherwise its
>> just usable as switch.
>
> What's your source for the common problem? The WAN connection usually
> ends up on the Ethernet connection of a DSL or Cable modem which
> itself should be protected. This can be verified by attaching the PC
> directly to the WAN connection and trying to ping the modem's default
> IP address for HTTP port configuration or trying to go to the modem
> config page at that address.
>

My bad ! :-(
I forget that here in the UK the router normally connects directly to
the phone line and over there the modem is often a separate device.
Sorry !

Although the protection circuitry behind the socket is still worth
checking.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 6:16 am
From: "Steve Sousa"

"root" <NoEMail@home.org> wrote in message
news:icj86p$3c6$1@news.albasani.net...
> The router doesn't see the WAN connection. Is
> there any hope that it is fixable?
>
> I have reset it to initial status, and the
> 4xswitch side works.
>
> TIA

had a befsr41 go bad after a power surge. the caps inside heat like crazy
in normal operation and go bad too, but in my case it was also the wan chip
(realtek?). i found one online and replaced it. at the time it made sense in
terms of cost, nowadays probably not...

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 6:37 am
From: Meat Plow

On Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:59:54 +0000, baron wrote:

> Meat Plow Inscribed thus:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:21:57 +0000, Baron wrote:
>>
>>> Meat Plow Inscribed thus:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 24 Nov 2010 14:41:29 +0000, root wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The router doesn't see the WAN connection. Is there any hope that it
>>>>> is fixable?
>>>
>>> Unfortunately that is quite a common problem. Often spikes on the
>>> incoming line kill the circuit. You may find if your lucky that the
>>> voltage arrester just behind the WAN socket is SC. Otherwise its just
>>> usable as switch.
>>
>> What's your source for the common problem? The WAN connection usually
>> ends up on the Ethernet connection of a DSL or Cable modem which itself
>> should be protected. This can be verified by attaching the PC directly
>> to the WAN connection and trying to ping the modem's default IP address
>> for HTTP port configuration or trying to go to the modem config page at
>> that address.
>>
>>
> My bad ! :-(
> I forget that here in the UK the router normally connects directly to
> the phone line and over there the modem is often a separate device.
> Sorry !

The telco here offers a combo switch/router/dsl modem. I have one around
here made by 2wire.

> Although the protection circuitry behind the socket is still worth
> checking.

If the OP is adventurous yes. However it may not be worth the money to
replace parts and if the protection has crowbarred the WAN port running
the router without protection could result in future damage to the
transceiver.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Output transformer ambiguity
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b4d4e3e6c8232295?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 6:09 am
From: "Steve Sousa"

"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:8l2pujF1hkU1@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> ** Assuming the transformers are the same size and do the same job, the
> one with the 4000 ohm primary is stuffed.
>
>
>> I measured the turns ratio using a signal generator at 1khz and got 45,6
>> and 46,0
>
>
> ** Do not use a comma for the decimal point - it is way too confusing.
>
>
>
> ..... Phil
>

Hello

Wouldn't it be possible to have an original 4000ohm shorted to 900ohm too?

Best Regards

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 6:11 am
From: "Steve Sousa"

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:icijdo$d1a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> If the 900 ohm one was shot then it implies some shorted turns that is
> unlikely to change with heat and/or vibration
>
>

Hello:

the amp is a grundig como e/st, you can see a picture and the schematic at
http://meuble.radio.free.fr/stereo_console/grundig/index.html

i haven't removed the transformers because they are soldered to the chassis!
(the metal bracket is soldered to the chassis *and* the pcb)

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 6:23 am
From: "Steve Sousa"

"Meat Plow" <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2010.11.23.20.18.12@lmao.lol.lol...
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2010 18:21:50 +0000, Steve Sousa wrote:
>
> That's a heck of a difference in DC resistance. If you drive both with a
> sig generator and look at the secondaries on a scope is there a big
> difference in the signal amplitude between the two? If not I would be
> inclined to replace the tube and take some voltages while the circuit is
> live while monitoring the plate currents. You can look here for
> operational voltages and currents in different classes of operation:
>
> http://www.nj7p.org/Tube4.php?tube=6gu8

hello:

there was about half division difference on the scope. I was trying to avoid
testing with the valve because it's expensive and "rare" i don't want to
take much risks....

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Nov 25 2010 9:05 am
From: "N_Cook"

Steve Sousa <etsteve@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4cee6eaa$0$61360$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>
>
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:icijdo$d1a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > If the 900 ohm one was shot then it implies some shorted turns that is
> > unlikely to change with heat and/or vibration
> >
> >
>
> Hello:
>
> the amp is a grundig como e/st, you can see a picture and the schematic at
> http://meuble.radio.free.fr/stereo_console/grundig/index.html
>
> i haven't removed the transformers because they are soldered to the
chassis!
> (the metal bracket is soldered to the chassis *and* the pcb)
>

Do the 2 in one output valves mean the amp is compact size?
I know an intermittent break in low impedance side of output Tx can lead to
valve failure but does intermittant high imp side harm the drive valves?
The Tx numbers matching on that schematic confirms they should be to within
about 5 percent the same measurements

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