sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 16 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why the same price with and withtout an antenna amp?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9162c2bb89bfe618?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 12:02 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Mon, 15 Nov 2010 01:15:06 -0500, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>Not a repair question, so maybe this is OT, but...

Close to the bitter edge of off topic, but not quite.

>Why do you suppose at solidstate.com, the Winegard MS 1000 antenna,
>which doesn't include an amplifier, costs the same as the Winegard MS
>2000 which does have a built-in amplifier 60 dollars. This is a
>round omnidirectional antenna that looks like a flying saucer.
>
>FWIW, the 2000 even includes 50 feet of cable that the one without the
>amp doesn't include.
>
>Does that mean the amp in the one with an amp is really cheap?

Yes.

>Does that in turn mean that one of the amps they sell for 50 or 60
>dollars without an antenna is many times better?

No.

>Does that mean one should buy the one without the amp and then get a
>separate amp if necessary?

No.

>Thanks.

You're welcome.

>I'm not asking you to look at the webpages, but I always get
>criticized if I don't include links.
>http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=MS-1000&d=Winegard-MS-1000-Metrostar-Omnidirectional-NonAmplified-TV-Antenna-%28MS1000%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=
>http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=MS-2000&d=Winegard-MS2000-Metrostar-Omnidirectional-Amplified-TV-Antenna-%28MS2000%29&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=615798301705

The explanation is easy enough. The pancake antenna is nothing but a
big circuit board inside. The difference between the amplified
version and the non-amplified version is one MMIC amplifier (probably
a Mini-Circuit Labs MAR-6) two caps, one resistor, and maybe a choke.
Total added costs, in large quantities, is about $0.50. Because the
boards are identical, and the cost differences are minimal, the
selling prices are the same.

There's a reason why two models are offered. The amplifier is useful
in weak signal areas, but a disaster in very strong signal areas,
where overload and intermod from nearby TV xmitters are a very real
problem. Two versions gives the customer a choice.

The antenna amplifier is also useful for compensating for the losses
of the coax cable between the antenna and the receiver. If the cable
is fairly short (i.e. less than 15ft), then the antenna amplifier
isn't going to do much good. However, if there is 50 or 100ft of
RG-6a/u attached, the antenna amplifier is very necessary to preserve
the receiver sensitivity.

External versus internal amplifiers is a religious issue. There are
merits to both approaches. I can't offer an opinion without knowning
how the antenna is to be used, the location relative to the desired TV
stations, length of coax, and receiver model (so I can check the
sensitivity specs). For what it's worth, I don't like such pancake
omnidirectional antennas (with or without amplifier) as an omni
antenna has very little gain. The name "Metro" might offer a clue
that it has to be used in a metropolitan area, where strong signals
are usually present.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 12:30 pm
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)

In article <khj1e6dq6va55j4iglsrvpb1f28rbcli85@4ax.com>,
mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Not a repair question, so maybe this is OT, but...
>
>Why do you suppose at solidstate.com, the Winegard MS 1000 antenna,
>which doesn't include an amplifier, costs the same as the Winegard MS
>2000 which does have a built-in amplifier 60 dollars. This is a
>round omnidirectional antenna that looks like a flying saucer.

The MSRP of the MS-2000 is $110, while the MSRP of the MS-1000 is $70.
SolidSignal is offering a much greater discount on the MS-2000 at the
moment.

I don't know why the MS-2000 is so heavily discounted... the commonest
reason for this is probably "We bought too many, we need to reduce our
stock, so let's blow them out at just barely above our cost."

>FWIW, the 2000 even includes 50 feet of cable that the one without the
>amp doesn't include.
>
>Does that mean the amp in the one with an amp is really cheap?
>
>Does that in turn mean that one of the amps they sell for 50 or 60
>dollars without an antenna is many times better?

Not necessarily. The antenna units themselves are the same diameter,
same height, and probably have very similar gain and directivity
patterns (i.e. not much and not much). They may even be identical
except for the labels printed on the outside.

>Does that mean one should buy the one without the amp and then get a
>separate amp if necessary?

Could be. However, you'd probably need to pay substantially more in
order to get a really high-quality amplifier.

TV amplifiers are very much a mixed blessing. A mast-mounted amp can
help overcome the signal loss in the cable going down to the house,
and may enable you to use a passive splitter to divide the signal
among multiple TVs or DVRs or VCRs. However, such amplifiers have
serious limitations:

- They don't do anything to help overcome the effects of multipath
reflections (i.e. the signal from the transmitter reaching your
antenna via several different paths, due to reflections off of
buildings and trees and planes and etc.). Multipath causes
ghosting on analog TV channels, and can cause abrupt signal
dropouts and "macroblocking" on digital TV channels. Since an amp
can't distinguish between the different signal echoes on a given
channel, it doesn't help matters.

- Amplifiers can be subject to strong-signal overload, which generates
internal distortion and can make the signal quality at the TV worse
than it would be without an amp. This can be an issue if you have
any sort of strong VHF or UHF transmitter in your area... a nearby
TV station tower, a ham radio operator, a police or fire station,
etc.

- Amplifiers add their own noise to the signal.

A really high-quality TV amp will have bandpass and band-reject
filters tuned to allow only TV-band signals into the amplifying
electronics (filtering out unwanted signals before they saturate the
amp), will have a good low-noise, high-dynamic-range amplifying
transistor or chip, and will have only as much gain as you really need
to pull in the stations you're trying to boost.

Most cheap amps have little or no filtering, and a single MMIC
amplifier chip which may have too much noise, too little dynamic
range, or too much gain for your signal environment.

In general, I think you'd get the best results if you were to buy a
*directional* antenna, put it up high on a mast, and use a
remote-controlled rotator to aim it at the station you want to receive
at any given point in time.

If aiming isn't possible, and you have to use an omnidirectional
antenna such as these "flying saucer" types, I'd suggest mounting it
up in the clear (well away from trees), as high as you can manage
given your situation, *without* using an amplifier... and then see if
you get acceptable signal quality at your TV. If not, lower it and
add the amplifer (right below the antenna, not down at the TV!) and
see if this helps matters. If even this doesn't help, you'll need a
better antenna (one with directional gain) and a rotator.

I think you might as well buy the MS-2000... it's probably basically
the same antenna internally as the MS-1000, and you'll get the cable
and amplifier "for free" due to the current heavy discount on the
price.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: All Hot Hollywood Actress Scandals
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/82b92bf10aff540b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 1:23 am
From: smd

All Hot Hollywood Actress Scandals .... Due to some premises I Have
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another reason ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a9a63c157742e708?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 2:13 am
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <ql0Eo.77512$9k3.71109@newsfe24.ams2>,
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> nor to cover the countryside and coastline with stupid ugly and noisy
> windmills,

Strangely, I slept in a caravan in the middle of a wind farm in the NE of
Scotland just a few weeks ago. Was attending a classic car race meeting.
Those weren't noisy. Depending on wind direction you could sometimes just
hear a 'swish swish'. But this was in a very isolated part of the country.
Most parts of the UK have the distant sound of aircraft, etc.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 1:53 pm
From: Baron

Dave Plowman (News) Inscribed thus:

> In article <ql0Eo.77512$9k3.71109@newsfe24.ams2>,
> Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> nor to cover the countryside and coastline with stupid ugly and noisy
>> windmills,
>
> Strangely, I slept in a caravan in the middle of a wind farm in the NE
> of Scotland just a few weeks ago. Was attending a classic car race
> meeting. Those weren't noisy. Depending on wind direction you could
> sometimes just hear a 'swish swish'. But this was in a very isolated
> part of the country. Most parts of the UK have the distant sound of
> aircraft, etc.

I agree with Dave ! I too have done the same, slept in a camper van in
the middle of a wind farm ! No real noise at all.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DMX polarity switch
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c5930762cd8478bd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 4:24 am
From: "N_Cook"

If someone changed the polarity by changing the switch at the rear of a
lighing controller what would be the result?
Assuming fully working order beforehand.
1 no lamps controlled
2 erroneous lamps controlled and erroneous control
3 correct lamps but erroneous control

would a symptom of erroneous control be say by sliding up the blue content
then G and or R component of lighting drops

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A great site to open the blocked sites, and prohibited and encoded
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/74dfb532d8edd3b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 4:26 am
From: alagmy2030

A great site to open the blocked sites, and prohibited and encoded

http://free-download.zymichost.com/down/index.php

==============================================================================
TOPIC: hai
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1b3edec593d1191a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 5:36 am
From: kavin kumar

http://123maza.com/35/market185/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Now US & UK money earn easy how it possible?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/273bc7bd887df7f7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 7:29 am
From: bangarubabu

Now US & UK money earn easy how it possible? and how we are earning
per day $1000 will explain clearly.

http://ukandusinformation.co.cc

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/49040f2db9ca96cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 7:56 am
From: huang

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Looking for a Samsung LED TV for my den
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d15cd1bccfc7ffd5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 9:02 am
From: "Howlee"

Keith

I just picked up a UN55C6500 from best buy for $1700.

Frys had a special on veterans day and they matched the price. Frys was also
giving away a free wireless dongle with their deal.

So I got the TV delivered with the dongle for that price. Then add in Tax.

Regular best buy pricing is about $2100. Also, if it goes on sale again,
they can do their low price guaruntee. I know it is larger than what you
are looking for but I would imagine the smaller LED's are more competively
priced....

"Keith" <keithdlee2000@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ibm4tk$26k$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> All:
> I am looking for either a 37" or 40" Samsung LED TV for sale. It must be
> fairly new and in working shape with
> no scratches or dings on it. Please either post or email me here if you
> or anyone you know has such a TV for
> sale -- especially if you are in the Southern California area nearest San
> Diego. Thank you!
>
>
> Keith

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 12:32 pm
From: Keith

Howlee:
Thank you. I will probably look around for a un32b6000 or un40b6000.

Happy Holidays,
Keith Lee

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why you should change your vehicle to flex fuel
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f73a5559d9585644?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 9:55 am
From: LSMFT

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> The government should mandate that car companies make
>> ALL vehicles Flex-fuel. It doesn't cost much but I think the
>> oil companies are bribing the car companies not to do it. If
>> all cars were flex fuel, alternative suppliers would begin to
>> pop up everywhere weaning us of terrorist's oil supplies.
>
> No, it's not expensive, and GM used to make a lot of flex-fuel autos. (Don't
> know if they still do.)
>
> Problem is, ethyl alcohol is still not really cost-competitive with
> gasoline. Making lots of cars that use it would increase the demand, but I
> don't think that would do much to reduce production cost, something that
> alcohol producers have been trying to do /regardless/ of whether there are
> cars to use alcohol.
>
>
There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.

--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 11:29 am
From: Jeffrey Angus

On 11/15/2010 11:55 AM, LSMFT wrote:
> There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
> vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
> it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
> entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.

You seem to miss the point. Yes there are alternative fuels available,
however, there isn't the infrastructure in place for them.

There's two type of fuel you KNOW you'll be able to find on a long
distance trip. Gasoline and diesel. No kerosene, alcohol, charging
stations etc..

The infrastructure of gasoline and diesel have been put in place
over the past 100 years. That isn't going to change over night.

Kind of like the phone company. There is billions of miles of wire
installed.

Jeff

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 1:52 pm
From: LSMFT

Jeffrey Angus wrote:
> On 11/15/2010 11:55 AM, LSMFT wrote:
>> There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
>> vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
>> it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
>> entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.
>
> You seem to miss the point. Yes there are alternative fuels available,
> however, there isn't the infrastructure in place for them.
>
> There's two type of fuel you KNOW you'll be able to find on a long
> distance trip. Gasoline and diesel. No kerosene, alcohol, charging
> stations etc..
>
> The infrastructure of gasoline and diesel have been put in place
> over the past 100 years. That isn't going to change over night.
>
> Kind of like the phone company. There is billions of miles of wire
> installed.
>
> Jeff

A new infrastructure will never get off the ground if no car can burn
it. If all cars were flex fuel I could start selling something to my
neighbors, then the town, make a little money, expand to another town,
then the next state. Gas stations started with one. then expanded.
I guess some people don't get it.

--
LSMFT

Simple job, assist the assistant of the physicist.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 2:37 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

LSMFT wrote:
>
> Jeffrey Angus wrote:
> > On 11/15/2010 11:55 AM, LSMFT wrote:
> >> There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
> >> vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
> >> it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
> >> entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.
> >
> > You seem to miss the point. Yes there are alternative fuels available,
> > however, there isn't the infrastructure in place for them.
> >
> > There's two type of fuel you KNOW you'll be able to find on a long
> > distance trip. Gasoline and diesel. No kerosene, alcohol, charging
> > stations etc..
> >
> > The infrastructure of gasoline and diesel have been put in place
> > over the past 100 years. That isn't going to change over night.
> >
> > Kind of like the phone company. There is billions of miles of wire
> > installed.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> A new infrastructure will never get off the ground if no car can burn
> it. If all cars were flex fuel I could start selling something to my
> neighbors, then the town, make a little money, expand to another town,
> then the next state. Gas stations started with one. then expanded.
> I guess some people don't get it.

Just 'what' are you going to sell your neighbors? There are all
kinds of permits required to sell any fuel. Are you going to jury rig
some pile of crap and ignore those laws? You mention Hydrogen. Do you
have any idea of the problems of storing Hydrogen? Steel is porous to
hydrogen and will develop embrittlemnt problems. Biodiesel requires the
same storage facilites as diesel. Alcohol requires federal license to
manufacture in quantity. Do you want the ATF to go Waco on your ass?

--
Politicians should only get paid if the budget is balanced, and there is
enough left over to pay them.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 3:13 pm
From: Jim Yanik

Jeffrey Angus <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote in
news:4ce18a23$0$14803$bbae4d71@news.suddenlink.net:

> On 11/15/2010 11:55 AM, LSMFT wrote:
>> There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
>> vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
>> it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
>> entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.
>
> You seem to miss the point. Yes there are alternative fuels available,
> however, there isn't the infrastructure in place for them.
>
> There's two type of fuel you KNOW you'll be able to find on a long
> distance trip. Gasoline and diesel. No kerosene, alcohol, charging
> stations etc..
>
> The infrastructure of gasoline and diesel have been put in place
> over the past 100 years. That isn't going to change over night.
>
> Kind of like the phone company. There is billions of miles of wire
> installed.
>
> Jeff
>

how does LNG or propane work with electronic fuel injection?
do you have to redo the -entire- engine control system,along with the fuel
system and intake? Emissions controls too?
cars don't have carburetors anymore,it's all multi-point fuel injection.

ISTR that "flex-fuel" cars use LIQUID fuels,not gases or liquified gases.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 3:28 pm
From: "Charles"

"LSMFT" wrote in message news:WteEo.27896$3f.27562@newsfe12.iad...

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> The government should mandate that car companies make
>> ALL vehicles Flex-fuel. It doesn't cost much but I think the
>> oil companies are bribing the car companies not to do it. If
>> all cars were flex fuel, alternative suppliers would begin to
>> pop up everywhere weaning us of terrorist's oil supplies.
>
> No, it's not expensive, and GM used to make a lot of flex-fuel autos.
> (Don't
> know if they still do.)
>
> Problem is, ethyl alcohol is still not really cost-competitive with
> gasoline. Making lots of cars that use it would increase the demand, but I
> don't think that would do much to reduce production cost, something that
> alcohol producers have been trying to do /regardless/ of whether there are
> cars to use alcohol.
>
>
There is a lot more than alcohol. There is LNG, liquid propane,
vegetable oil and bio-diesel for diesel cars and flex fuel cars can burn
it too. There is butane, hydrogen, methane, other who knows what that
entrepreneurs would come up with IF they could sell it.

Yes, but flex fuel is rather specific:

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/flextech.shtml

Topic drift is one thing but .................

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ANGELINA JOLIE New SEX Tape Of 20mins RELEASED ( MUST SEE THIS ---
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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e4c4a9328a53bc78?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 10:06 am
From: baptist

I Have Hidden the Videos in an IMAGE...... CLICK on the IMAGE which
is BELOW the SEARCH BOX which is on the RIGHT SIDE of the website
http://www.girlsactress4u.euro.st

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Get $500 To Your PAYPAL ACCOUNT ( Get The Procedure FORM To Get It )
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/13350a70e5df8fdd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 10:40 am
From: lata

The Procedure is in the FORM.....CLICK on the IMAGE which is BELOW
the SEARCH BAR for the FORM http://www.tipsandtricks4all.euro.st

==============================================================================
TOPIC: EMMA WATSON Full NUDE Videos LEAKED ( FIRST TIME ON INTERNET )
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/495a7620e12f4fac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 11:35 am
From: hollyood

I Have Hidden the Videos in an IMAGE...... CLICK on the IMAGE which
is BELOW the SEARCH BOX which is on the RIGHT SIDE of the website
http://www.girlsactress4u.euro.st

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Self-Repair Manifesto
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/047741f126542a73?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 2:08 pm
From: Franc Zabkar

On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 10:10:43 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
put finger to keyboard and composed:

>On Sun, 14 Nov 2010 06:14:05 -0600, Jeffrey Angus
><jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>>On 11/14/2010 2:05 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>> <http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto>
>>
>>Mmmm, fix it goodness.
>>
>>I'd spotted this earlier on there I fixed it (I think)
>>thanks for the link to a very clean source of it.
>>
>>Jeff
>>the other other one.
>
>Y'er welcome. I printed a few for my palatial office.
>
>I like the line "Repair teaches Engineering", but would prefer my own
>"Learn by Destroying".
>
>I backtracked the iFixit version from the credits near the bottom:
><http://www.misterjalopy.com/?page_id=219>
><http://www.platform21.nl/download/4375>
>
>My repair warranty:
><http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/drivel/diploma.jpg>
>
>There hasn't been much progress in improving the quality of the
>customers since I wrote this 16 years ago:
>Support, Santa Cruz Style or Where Do These People Come From?
><http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/95q1/compnightmares.html>
>
>Jeff (If this stuff worked, you wouldn't need me) L.

Thanks very much for posting these links. I'm glad there are others
who think as I do. BTW, I'm posting this on a 12 year old, socket 7,
Windows 98 machine.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 2:37 pm
From: "Charles"

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news:ku5vd69620loo76cngf77dc4k9lhnpol6u@4ax.com...

<http://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto>

Sorry, but the year is 2010 and repair of recent and future electronic
products is not going to happen, as least as what can be accomplished by Joe
consumer. For the factory authorized geek squad, sure they PERHAPS have
access to data and modules and software and they can, in some cases, repair
electronic items.

I'd love for it be so, by the way. I detest sending stuff to landfills and
to recycling centers. But the truth is that there is not much inside a
modern electronic gadget that is repairable. SMT has rendered component
replacement impossible, for many cases. Schematics are no longer
obtainable. Embedded software makes troubleshooting almost impossible.
Repair parts are not available. And the list goes on.

Richard Feynman (a Nobel winner) often talked about taking radios apart. If
he would try that now, he would move on to biology.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Calculating Power Factor
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b2d11ce5d56ec333?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Nov 15 2010 3:44 pm
From: Steve Kraus

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> If all you want are the results, the common Kill-A-Watt power meter
> has a PF measurement feature. $25-$40 everywhere.
> <http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html>
> I have 4 of these (various models).

Thanks Jeff; that looks like a useful gadget. I may have to get one. But
I don't think it's applicable for my situtation which is 208V / 3-phase.

Actually there could be a way to use it for 3-phase. Assuming it measured
current on just the hot leg one could run one leg at a time through the
meter with the neutral side of the meter connected to the power line
neutral OR, even better, connecting it to the Y point of the power supply.
The meter would only be exposed to 120V. Basically, it would be imagining
this as 3 separate single phase loads. Then just sum the results.

But the meter is only good for 15A and my supply is pulling 18 and up.

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