sci.electronics.repair - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DMX polarity switch
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c5930762cd8478bd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 1:15 am
From: "N_Cook"

Something like situation 3 - maybe a bit garbled, in
phone call about "broken" controller , but someone had flipped the switch on
the back

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another reason ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a9a63c157742e708?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 2:14 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Brenda Ann" <newsgroups@fullspectrumradio.org> wrote in message
news:IdGdnYGbZscmeXzRnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
> "Baron" <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:ibsa0q$igv$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Dave Plowman (News) Inscribed thus:
>>
>>> In article <ql0Eo.77512$9k3.71109@newsfe24.ams2>,
>>> Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>> nor to cover the countryside and coastline with stupid ugly and noisy
>>>> windmills,
>>>
>>> Strangely, I slept in a caravan in the middle of a wind farm in the NE
>>> of Scotland just a few weeks ago. Was attending a classic car race
>>> meeting. Those weren't noisy. Depending on wind direction you could
>>> sometimes just hear a 'swish swish'. But this was in a very isolated
>>> part of the country. Most parts of the UK have the distant sound of
>>> aircraft, etc.
>>
>> I agree with Dave ! I too have done the same, slept in a camper van in
>> the middle of a wind farm ! No real noise at all.
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards:
>> Baron.
>
> I've been to wind farms myself. The only noise is sort of a muted
> 'whoosh-whoosh', and that with a standard 3 blade unit. There are spiracle
> types made to make even less noise.
>
> I think people that don't want alternative energy are equating windmills
> with giant fans, which make much more noise because they are moving air,
> and not air moving them.. BIG difference!
>
>

I don't think that there are many people who are sane, that are against
'alternative' energy, per se. The trick is that the word needs to be
combined with that other little word "practical". That seems to get
forgotten in all this. PV panels are all very well, if you've got a country
below say 45 deg N, with a lot of unused desert available. Even then, you
have the logistics and losses involved in shifting the power that you
generate, to anywhere that it's needed. In the UK, and most of Europe, there
just isn't enough year round sun of any intensity, to make the projects
feasible, which is why other countries in the EU have tried it, and rejected
it. But of course, the dumb old UK have got to give it a go themselves,
rather than learn from others' mistakes ...

Likewise, what use are thousands of windmills that don't generate for at
least 50% of the time, due to the winds being either too low in speed or,
staggeringly, too high ! I haven't looked much into the practicalities of
the tidal windmills that are now being installed, but it strikes me that the
maintenance costs of these are likely to be rather high, and the lifetime in
corrosive salt water, comparatively short.

We already have an 'alternative' power technology that is both clean and
practical, and that is nuclear. I really don't know why people have such a
problem with it. The French don't. When we are all sitting shivering in our
houses because some eastern bloc altercation has cut off our gas supplies,
and waiting for the sun to shine and the wind to blow, the French will be
chortling away, offering to sell us even more of their nuclear power than
they do now, at even more inflated prices. I appreciate that there are
potential issues with recycling waste nuclear material, but I am sure that
these are not insurmountable.

And don't make the mistake of thinking that 'alternative power' is all about
responsible people trying to save the planet. It's not. Whilst such
scientists and eco-minded people may have been at the centre of the original
concepts, it is now all about big business. Selling the public these
technologies by way of the hysterical global warming issue (trends now
indicate a cooling again BTW, much the same as we were being told back in
the 70s) and pseudo science that has little if any foundation in fact, is
making huge amounts of money for companies who are having their products
built by the biggest industrial polluters in the world, and don't actually
give a toss about green issues ...

Arfa

== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 2:42 am
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <owlEo.118903$zz4.81541@newsfe04.ams2>,
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> And actually, who's to say that by 'stealing' the wind, they don't
> cause some 'butterfly effect' elsewhere ? :-) Little of what man
> does actually has a zero effect on his environment ...

Well, wind power was one of the earliest forms of energy man used for
moving things - sailing ships, windmills, etc. Well before steam was
harnessed.

Perhaps solar power saps the sun's rays too? ;-)

--
*Great groups from little icons grow *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 3:24 am
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

Arfa Daily wrote:
> I don't think that there are many people who are sane, that are against
> 'alternative' energy, per se. The trick is that the word needs to be
> combined with that other little word "practical". That seems to get
> forgotten in all this. PV panels are all very well, if you've got a country
> below say 45 deg N, with a lot of unused desert available.

The tax situation also matters. I have a friend who lives near Philadelphia,
who put an array up on his single family house. He is nowhere near a desert.

His nominal income tax rate is around 33%. He bought a $30,000 dollar
array and was able to take it off of his income tax, so that reduced the
price to $20k.

He was able to get another $10k off in state tax credits and grants.

Because of the "cap and trade" law, his power company is paying him for the
right to claim that his array provides power to "the grid" as if they were
doing it, which nets him $2,500 a year. They also pay him per killowat hour
he does put onto the grid.

It's not 100% free electricty as it has no storage capability, so it becomes
cloudy, or during the night, he has to buy electrcity. For saftey reasons,
it shuts down if the main electricity goes out.

The array has a long term warranty and is insured as part of his homeowner's
policy. So basicly, he has invested $10k for a $30k array, and after 4 years,
anything he gets from it in cap and trade fees, reduced electrical bills,
and additional value on his house is free.

Around 2000, a co-worker who lived in the UK (same company, different offices),
was looking at using special heating cells designed to heat GPS satellites
from "earthshine". His estimate that for 3000 UKP total investment, he
would save 450 UKP a year in gas.

I'm not sure where he lived, it was withing motorcycle commuting distance
of "The City".

I lost touch in 2002, I wonder if it worked? I expect that UK heating gas
bills have gone up in 10 years.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 3:43 am
From: baron

Brenda Ann Inscribed thus:

>
>
> "Baron" <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:ibsa0q$igv$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Dave Plowman (News) Inscribed thus:
>>
>>> In article <ql0Eo.77512$9k3.71109@newsfe24.ams2>,
>>> Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>> nor to cover the countryside and coastline with stupid ugly and
>>>> noisy windmills,
>>>
>>> Strangely, I slept in a caravan in the middle of a wind farm in the
>>> NE of Scotland just a few weeks ago. Was attending a classic car
>>> race meeting. Those weren't noisy. Depending on wind direction you
>>> could sometimes just hear a 'swish swish'. But this was in a very
>>> isolated part of the country. Most parts of the UK have the distant
>>> sound of aircraft, etc.
>>
>> I agree with Dave ! I too have done the same, slept in a camper van
>> in
>> the middle of a wind farm ! No real noise at all.
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards:
>> Baron.
>
> I've been to wind farms myself. The only noise is sort of a muted
> 'whoosh-whoosh', and that with a standard 3 blade unit. There are
> spiracle types made to make even less noise.
>
> I think people that don't want alternative energy are equating
> windmills with giant fans, which make much more noise because they are
> moving air, and not air moving them.. BIG difference!

Yes I agree. It annoys me that that the objectors try to use noise
pollution from wind farms as a method of garnering support. I won't
deny that the visual aspect is intrusive.

We have a group locally, only four or five people that want to ban wind
farms. They are using the arguments above as a method of trying to
bully the local residents into agreeing with them. The laughable thing
is the wind farm in question is going to be built more than ten miles
from the village. In addition its a fairly wooded area, so people
aren't going to be able to see them anyway !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 4:22 am
From: baron

Arfa Daily Inscribed thus:

>
>
> "Brenda Ann" <newsgroups@fullspectrumradio.org> wrote in message
> news:IdGdnYGbZscmeXzRnZ2dnVY3go2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>>
>> "Baron" <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:ibsa0q$igv$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Dave Plowman (News) Inscribed thus:
>>>
>>>> In article <ql0Eo.77512$9k3.71109@newsfe24.ams2>,
>>>> Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>>> nor to cover the countryside and coastline with stupid ugly and
>>>>> noisy windmills,
>>>>
>>>> Strangely, I slept in a caravan in the middle of a wind farm in the
>>>> NE of Scotland just a few weeks ago. Was attending a classic car
>>>> race meeting. Those weren't noisy. Depending on wind direction you
>>>> could sometimes just hear a 'swish swish'. But this was in a very
>>>> isolated part of the country. Most parts of the UK have the distant
>>>> sound of aircraft, etc.
>>>
>>> I agree with Dave ! I too have done the same, slept in a camper van
>>> in
>>> the middle of a wind farm ! No real noise at all.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best Regards:
>>> Baron.
>>
>> I've been to wind farms myself. The only noise is sort of a muted
>> 'whoosh-whoosh', and that with a standard 3 blade unit. There are
>> spiracle types made to make even less noise.
>>
>> I think people that don't want alternative energy are equating
>> windmills with giant fans, which make much more noise because they
>> are moving air, and not air moving them.. BIG difference!
>>
>>

Hi Arfa,

> I don't think that there are many people who are sane, that are
> against 'alternative' energy, per se. The trick is that the word needs
> to be combined with that other little word "practical". That seems to
> get forgotten in all this. PV panels are all very well, if you've got
> a country below say 45 deg N, with a lot of unused desert available.
> Even then, you have the logistics and losses involved in shifting the
> power that you generate, to anywhere that it's needed. In the UK, and
> most of Europe, there just isn't enough year round sun of any
> intensity, to make the projects feasible, which is why other countries
> in the EU have tried it, and rejected it. But of course, the dumb old
> UK have got to give it a go themselves, rather than learn from others'
> mistakes ...

Ahh, but we are supposed to be the technological leaders... aren't we !

> Likewise, what use are thousands of windmills that don't generate for
> at least 50% of the time, due to the winds being either too low in
> speed or, staggeringly, too high ! I haven't looked much into the
> practicalities of the tidal windmills that are now being installed,
> but it strikes me that the maintenance costs of these are likely to be
> rather high, and the lifetime in corrosive salt water, comparatively
> short.

Yes maintenance costs bother me too. I wonder how long it will be
before we start scrapping systems because of those costs.

> We already have an 'alternative' power technology that is both clean
> and practical, and that is nuclear. I really don't know why people
> have such a problem with it. The French don't.

I agree the French have embraced the Nuclear nettle and have taken huge
steps to protect the plants from attack by terrorists and the like.
I've seen first hand the twenty foot, triple razor wire, barrier fences
and the deep ditches between them. All the cameras and IR lighting
used to monitor the area. Not small areas either ! The one that I
visited was a 20Km drive just to get around it. They are not very
visible either, having lots of trees and such planted around reduces
its visual impact. Unlike a UK power station, you could drive right
past a French one and not even know it was there.

> When we are all sitting
> shivering in our houses because some eastern bloc altercation has cut
> off our gas supplies, and waiting for the sun to shine and the wind to
> blow, the French will be chortling away, offering to sell us even more
> of their nuclear power than they do now, at even more inflated prices.
> I appreciate that there are potential issues with recycling waste
> nuclear material, but I am sure that these are not insurmountable.

Hasn't the Uk government just got into bed with EDF on the basis that
the French will share there Nuclear technologies, or they hope they
will. Either way EDF will maximise the extraction of profits from the
UK populace to pay for it !

> And don't make the mistake of thinking that 'alternative power' is all
> about responsible people trying to save the planet. It's not. Whilst
> such scientists and eco-minded people may have been at the centre of
> the original concepts, it is now all about big business. Selling the
> public these technologies by way of the hysterical global warming
> issue (trends now indicate a cooling again BTW, much the same as we
> were being told back in the 70s) and pseudo science that has little if
> any foundation in fact, is making huge amounts of money for companies
> who are having their products built by the biggest industrial
> polluters in the world, and don't actually give a toss about green
> issues ...
>
> Arfa

Agreed ! The feudal system is alive and well... The serfs will pay !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 4:31 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> Perhaps it depends on the distance from them, or maybe the design of the
> blades. Either way, noisy or not, they are still a blot on the landscape,
> and IMHO, a huge waste of resources for the relatively small amount of
power
> that they generate.

Do you have evidence for that, one way or the other?

> And actually, who's to say that by 'stealing' the wind, they
> don't cause some 'butterfly effect' elsewhere ? :-) Little of what
> man does actually has a zero effect on his environment ...

The same thought has crossed my mind, too. But they're unlikely to have a
significant effect, for roughly the same reason that humans are unable to
deliberately modify the weather -- it takes too much energy.

Nuclear reactors don't bother me, much. Nuclear waste does. Do you know what
a pebble bed reactor is? It appears to have the potentional to end all the
problems with nuclear energy, but nobody's doing much about it.

== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 4:39 am
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

baron wrote:
> Ahh, but we are supposed to be the technological leaders... aren't we !

That was so last decade. Now with the "austerity programme" (did I spell
that correctly?), 20% VAT, and multiculturism, you will be just trying
not to get blown up nor starve, to keep the lights on and not
freeze this winter. :-(

You might as well get out those old books on how to make do with food
rations. I don't have them, but read a set someone lent me of reprints
from the Imperial War Museum.

The only problem with them, is that around 1943, supplies of powdered milk
and eggs, and canned pork (SPAM) started to arrive from the US and Canada.
I don't think there will be much to spare this time around. People on food
mailing lists from the US are complaining about the high prices of food, and
the lack of the usual holiday (it's Thanksgiving in the US soon) sales. :-(

Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 4:41 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> I don't think that there are many people who are sane, that are against
> 'alternative' energy, per se. The trick is that the word needs to be
> combined with that other little word "practical". That seems to get
> forgotten in all this. PV panels are all very well, if you've got a
country
> below say 45 deg N, with a lot of unused desert available. Even then, you
> have the logistics and losses involved in shifting the power that you
> generate, to anywhere that it's needed.

This is not a problem -- not in the US, anyway. We have a big connected
grid.

People keep saying that solar energy doesn't work at night. Correct. But we
need less energy at nigh. The idea is to have a mix of energy sources.

> We already have an 'alternative' power technology that is both clean and
> practical, and that is nuclear.

You talk about "practical", but what is the "practical" way to get rid of
the waste?

> I appreciate that there are potential issues with recycling waste
> nuclear material, but I am sure that these are not insurmountable.

It isn't just what's left over from the fuel rods. It's also the stuff that
the radiation contaminaes.

> And don't make the mistake of thinking that 'alternative power' is all
> about responsible people trying to save the planet. It's not. Whilst such
> scientists and eco-minded people may have been at the centre of the
> original concepts, it is now all about big business. Selling the public
these
> technologies by way of the hysterical global warming issue (trends now
> indicate a cooling again BTW, much the same as we were being told back
> in the 70s) and pseudo science that has little if any foundation in fact,
is
> making huge amounts of money for companies who are having their products
> built by the biggest industrial polluters in the world, and don't actually
> give a toss about green issues ...

I thought you had more sense. Where do you get this business about "cooling
trends"?

Regardless, global warming ultimately has nothing to do with it. We need
safe, renewable sources of energy. We can't keep burning fossil fuels
indefinitely. THAT problem should be driving us to develop them as quickly
as possible. We should have been working on it aggressively after WW II.
But, no. "The Market" will automatically solve all our problems.

It appears that work on extracting oil from algae (which appear to be the
source of natural oil deposits) has been going on for more than 30 years,
mostly at oil companies. Why do you think we haven't seen any progress?

There are some things that are too important to be left to the people who
profit from them.

== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 4:46 am
From: "N_Cook"

Geoffrey S. Mendelson <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnie4q8c.tm9.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...
> Arfa Daily wrote:
> > I don't think that there are many people who are sane, that are against
> > 'alternative' energy, per se. The trick is that the word needs to be
> > combined with that other little word "practical". That seems to get
> > forgotten in all this. PV panels are all very well, if you've got a
country
> > below say 45 deg N, with a lot of unused desert available.
>
> The tax situation also matters. I have a friend who lives near
Philadelphia,
> who put an array up on his single family house. He is nowhere near a
desert.
>
> His nominal income tax rate is around 33%. He bought a $30,000 dollar
> array and was able to take it off of his income tax, so that reduced the
> price to $20k.
>
> He was able to get another $10k off in state tax credits and grants.
>
> Because of the "cap and trade" law, his power company is paying him for
the
> right to claim that his array provides power to "the grid" as if they were
> doing it, which nets him $2,500 a year. They also pay him per killowat
hour
> he does put onto the grid.
>
> It's not 100% free electricty as it has no storage capability, so it
becomes
> cloudy, or during the night, he has to buy electrcity. For saftey reasons,
> it shuts down if the main electricity goes out.
>
> The array has a long term warranty and is insured as part of his
homeowner's
> policy. So basicly, he has invested $10k for a $30k array, and after 4
years,
> anything he gets from it in cap and trade fees, reduced electrical bills,
> and additional value on his house is free.
>
> Around 2000, a co-worker who lived in the UK (same company, different
offices),
> was looking at using special heating cells designed to heat GPS satellites
> from "earthshine". His estimate that for 3000 UKP total investment, he
> would save 450 UKP a year in gas.
>
> I'm not sure where he lived, it was withing motorcycle commuting distance
> of "The City".
>
> I lost touch in 2002, I wonder if it worked? I expect that UK heating gas
> bills have gone up in 10 years.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --
> Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
> To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must
order
> dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat
it. :-)

There is a potential ;-) problem in Germany with so many uncontrolled small
scale PV rooftops if there is a very sunny day coinciding with minimal grid
load.

I wonder if it will be in my lifetime there will be the pan-Europe grid
(probably very high voltage DC strangely) connecting Iceland geothermal /
Norway hydro/ French nuclear / N Africa solar together

== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 4:51 am
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <ibtu5p$kq9$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
> There are some things that are too important to be left to the people who
> profit from them.

Prime example in the UK.

Thatcher close the coal mines to punish the miners. Only possible because
we had just got North Sea gas on stream. Now, some 20 years later it is
getting exhausted and we have to import gas at vast cost.

Wouldn't it be nice to find a politician who can see beyond the next
election? And actually have the good of the majority in mind?

--
*Does fuzzy logic tickle? *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 5:06 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

There's another, broader issue here that hardly anyone pays attention to...
overpopulation.

When I was a kid, the world's population reached 2Gcbl, and people were
afraid of starvation, disease, etc. It's now 6Gcbl, and still growing,
partly due to the "green revolution".

You don't need to be Malthus to understand that the Earth doesn't have
infinite carrying capacity. If things don't change, at some point the system
/has/ to collapse.

Somewhere between now and then we will see drastic changes, with governments
controlling the size of the homes we build (probably outlawing single-family
dwellings), how many children we can have, how many calories a day we can
consume, and so forth. (See "Soylent Green". I haven't read Harry Harrison's
"Make Room, Make Room", but the idea of recycling human protein is /not/ in
it.)

You get violently angry when I insist that government force people to do
what's right about trivial things -- such as how you light their homes. Wait
until you see what happens to your /basic/, "inalienable" rights when there
isn't enough land to produce food or house people. And you think Communist
societies are bad...

There are simply too many people. Imagine what things would be like if there
were only 500Mcbl. (By the way, I'm in favor of across-the-board population
reduction. The people in developed countries consume too much of everything,
and there are simply too many people in poor countries.)

The problem of overpopulation is largely due to developed countries
spreading death control, without forcing the people who receive it to
practice birth control. (And I'm not talking about abortion.) If the
potential recipients of death control say "Our religion (or social beliefs,
etc) prohibits birth control," they will hear "Our understanding of biology
prohibits helping people who don't understand what happens when you disrupt
the natural order of things." Which is what death control is -- a disruption
of the natural order, in which disease and lack of food keep populations
from growing rapidly.

If you don't understand this, think of human beings as deer, and disease,
lack of clean water, malnutrition, etc, as wolves. What happens when you
start systematically killing off the wolves?

== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 5:10 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> There are some things that are too important to be
>> left to the people who profit from them.

> Prime example in the UK.

> Thatcher close the coal mines to punish the miners. Only possible
> because we had just got North Sea gas on stream. Now, some 20
> years later it is getting exhausted and we have to import gas at vast
> cost.

> Wouldn't it be nice to find a politician who can see beyond the next
> election? And actually have the good of the majority in mind?

Unfortunately, both Liberals and Conservatives pass laws based on what they
believe is morally or philosophically correct, without /any/ regard for the
consequences.

There might be unintended consequences, but hardly any of them are
unpredictable.

== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 8:46 am
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <ibtvsr$rfa$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
William Sommerwerck <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:
> > Wouldn't it be nice to find a politician who can see beyond the next
> > election? And actually have the good of the majority in mind?

> Unfortunately, both Liberals and Conservatives pass laws based on what
> they believe is morally or philosophically correct, without /any/ regard
> for the consequences.

If only that were true. At least it would be honest.

> There might be unintended consequences, but hardly any of them are
> unpredictable.

Absolutely. There were plenty of predictions about the amount of gas in
'our' part of the North Sea and indeed there is actually more. But it has
been squandered producing 'cheap' electricity. When that can be made from
other means. But other means ain't so good as gas for heating and industry.

--
*I must always remember that I'm unique, just like everyone else. *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 9:42 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:517706f9a9dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <owlEo.118903$zz4.81541@newsfe04.ams2>,
> Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> And actually, who's to say that by 'stealing' the wind, they don't
>> cause some 'butterfly effect' elsewhere ? :-) Little of what man
>> does actually has a zero effect on his environment ...
>
>
> Well, wind power was one of the earliest forms of energy man used for
> moving things - sailing ships, windmills, etc. Well before steam was
> harnessed.
>
> Perhaps solar power saps the sun's rays too? ;-)
>
> --
>
> Dave Plowman

I'm sure it does Dave, I'm sure it does ... :-)

Arfa

== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 9:55 am
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

William Sommerwerck wrote:
> This is not a problem -- not in the US, anyway. We have a big connected
> grid.

Look it up. It's about 33% efficent, i.e. 1/3 of the electricity put into
the grid comes out. Still with solar and other passive power that's
mostly an up-front cost, you just need to replace fossil fuel buring plants
with an equivalent output passive system.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
To help restaurants, as part of the "stimulus package", everyone must order
dessert. As part of the socialized health plan, you are forbidden to eat it. :-)

== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 9:56 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:ibttii$isa$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Perhaps it depends on the distance from them, or maybe the design of the
>> blades. Either way, noisy or not, they are still a blot on the landscape,
>> and IMHO, a huge waste of resources for the relatively small amount of
> power
>> that they generate.
>
> Do you have evidence for that, one way or the other?

Well, you could try having a read of this one. I know it's a 'popular press'
article and there will of course be people who immediately scream that the
press are all liars, but I think that the basic figures quoted, and some of
the reasons that that are stated for the evangelical take up of this
technology, are probably thereabouts on the money, as I have read similar
ones elsewhere

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/7823681/Does-money-grow-in-wind-farms.html

Arfa

>
>
>> And actually, who's to say that by 'stealing' the wind, they
>> don't cause some 'butterfly effect' elsewhere ? :-) Little of what
>> man does actually has a zero effect on his environment ...
>
> The same thought has crossed my mind, too. But they're unlikely to have a
> significant effect, for roughly the same reason that humans are unable to
> deliberately modify the weather -- it takes too much energy.
>
>
> Nuclear reactors don't bother me, much. Nuclear waste does. Do you know
> what
> a pebble bed reactor is? It appears to have the potentional to end all the
> problems with nuclear energy, but nobody's doing much about it.
>
>

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 8:44 am
From: JW

Hi,

Looking for the binary contents of the serial EEPROM 24C16N device on a
Dactron Laser-PCI controller. The device is in location U3 and is
socketed. Ours has become (very) corrupted, and so the card no longer
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controller for $10.5K. Ugh. Hoping someone out there has one of these that
they could read for me.

Thanks.

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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Nov 16 2010 9:40 am
From: bok118@zonnet.nl (Gerard Bok)

On Fri, 12 Nov 2010 07:05:34 +0000, Clyde
<mkdrummeyNOSPAMPLEASE@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Hi. This monitor has a strange fault. When switched on without signal
>the screen illuminates and the "check signal cable" display moves around

That's a healthy sign.

>However, when I connect a signal, I get a brief
>screen of garbled lines (very brief indeed) then the backlights go out.

That could indicate that you supply an out of range signal.
Either too much resolution or too high a refresh rate.
(640 x 480 should be fine, but at more than 60 Hz some LCDs still
prefer to stay asleep :-)

--
Kind regards,
Gerard Bok

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