sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Power surges and modern electronics.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/aae654cf032dde50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 8:23 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> I had one here -- but it always kept losing signal. So, you
> get a false sense of security *thinking* it is telling the correct
> time -- only to discover it wasn't. I guess they are sensitive to
> where they are located/oriented. Given how "unattractive" this
> one was (think: functional not decorative), the choices for where
> it could acceptably be sited were limited. So, it got relocated --
> to the trash. :<

Such clocks are best kept away from computers and other sources of EMI/RFI.
Once you find a clean spot, you should be okay.

Those with LCDs usually have an indicator that shows whether the clock has
been recently resynched.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 3:13 pm
From: "Brenda Ann"

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
news:ie08h8$1ib$1@news.eternal-september.org...

Such clocks are best kept away from computers and other sources of EMI/RFI.
Once you find a clean spot, you should be okay.

Those with LCDs usually have an indicator that shows whether the clock has
been recently resynched.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's kind of funny, really. Since they took clocks 'off the grid', they've
tried more and more elaborate bandaid measures to keep them accurate. I have
a good old fashioned AC synchronous wall clock that never gains nor loses
time as long as it has power, and half a dozen "quartz-accurate" clocks that
never seem to keep time, including the one in my DVR, which loses time like
crazy.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 4:39 pm
From: D Yuniskis

Hi William,

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> I had one here -- but it always kept losing signal. So, you
>> get a false sense of security *thinking* it is telling the correct
>> time -- only to discover it wasn't. I guess they are sensitive to
>> where they are located/oriented. Given how "unattractive" this
>> one was (think: functional not decorative), the choices for where
>> it could acceptably be sited were limited. So, it got relocated --
>> to the trash. :<
>
> Such clocks are best kept away from computers and other sources of EMI/RFI.
> Once you find a clean spot, you should be okay.

<grin> I doubt there are any such spots in this house! :-/

> Those with LCDs usually have an indicator that shows whether the clock has
> been recently resynched.

This had "hands". I guess driven by a little stepper motor.
As I said, the minute hand would race around as if it was a
second hand when it was "setting" the clock (I suspect it
only gets feedback from the "o'clock" (straight up) position.
So, it runs the minute hand to that position, then counts
"steps" from there to get to desired position.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 4:41 pm
From: D Yuniskis

Hi Brenda,

Brenda Ann wrote:
> It's kind of funny, really. Since they took clocks 'off the grid',
> they've tried more and more elaborate bandaid measures to keep them
> accurate. I have a good old fashioned AC synchronous wall clock that
> never gains nor loses time as long as it has power, and half a dozen
> "quartz-accurate" clocks that never seem to keep time, including the one
> in my DVR, which loses time like crazy.

The frequency of AC power is tightly controlled. Some short
term variations in frequency are allowed. But, long term
it has to be very accurate (precisely for this reason as
a timebase).

I always wondered how wristwatches could be so damned accurate
considering how cheap they are (especially these disposable ones).
But, then realized they operate at a constant temperature, etc.

By contrast, look at how poorly clocks in cars keep time...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Video: Christmas lights, Guitar Hero and "Cliffs of Dover" by Eric
Johnson
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/70a21bb8b62d5418?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 8:38 am
From: RoadRunner

http://www.craigboyce.com/w/2010/12/christmas-light-hero/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Samsung and AT&T U-Verse HDMI error?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2a432127faab53e5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 8:39 am
From: RickMerrill

David wrote:
> wrote in message news:20101211100101.510$Rw@newsreader.com...
>
> Keith <keithdlee2000@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rick:
>> I usually get both but sometimes I also get the error message as well.
>> I guess I will have to try different HDMI cables to see it that is it.
>> Any HDMI cables you would recommend? Thank you.
>>
>> Keith Lee
>
> When this happened to me once, I just reset the Uverse receiver and all
> was well. Unplug it for 10 seconds, or press and hold the power button
> for 5 seconds or so.
>
> David
>
>

I agree: it should not depend on the cable itself (all HDMI are really the same).

Unplugging and reseating can "fix" many things.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 9:45 am
From: John McWilliams

On 12/11/10 PDT 6:34 AM, Keith wrote:
> Rick:
> I usually get both but sometimes I also get the error message as well. I guess I will have to try different
> HDMI cables to see it that is it. Any HDMI cables you would recommend? Thank you.

The ones that cost $110! :-)

Seriously, anything on Amazon between a buck and ten bucks should do fine.

--
john mcwilliams

==============================================================================
TOPIC: laptop AC adapter tolerances
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1018ffbe2787d183?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 9:08 am
From: Amanda Ripanykhazov

On Dec 10, 2:01 pm, PlainBil...@yawho.com wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 01:56:08 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> ><hrhofm...@att.net> wrote in message
> >news:a1305490-79ac-4a35-a8bb-2e78569c9d92@k30g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Dec 9, 1:35 pm, Amanda Ripanykhazov <dmanzal...@googlemail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Any one know what approximate tolerances are on these things please?
>
> >>> I have a laptop without an adapter which takes a 19 volt 3.2 amp
> >>> adapter. I have a 20v 6.5 amp one and wonder how much damage it will
> >>> do to the laptop if I try to use it?
>
> >>> The unit does not have a battery to charge so this adapter will likely
> >>> be plugged in a lot of the time.
>
> >> A tolerance of at least 10% would be reasonable, so 19.0 + 1.9 = 19.9
>
> >That was 20.9, when I went to school ... ;-)
>
> >Arfa
>
> >> which is almost 20V. 20V - 2.0 V = 18V for the minimum on the 20V
> >> supply, so you should be just fine.
>
> New math.
>
> PlainBill

Actually I see the maths differently, though given the responses which
say that it is OK and has been shown to be OK over a few-year period,
the result is the same: If a laptop takes 19 volts, can I use a
converter over a prolonged period which could put out a continuous 22
volts?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ONLY FOR YOUTH
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/2439756086a76710?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 10:40 am
From: SAILAJA LOVES U

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DATASHEET OF IC REFERENCE STK 403-100
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/40d40df7d4b284e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 10:41 am
From: oeav88_at_hotmail_dot_com@foo.com (oscar8888)

oscar8888 had written this in response to
http://www.electrondepot.com/repair/Re-DATASHEET-OF-IC-REFERENCE-STK-403-100-6518-.htm
:
Arfa Daily wrote:

-------------------------------------

can you send me the data sheet too

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: RAC Portable Power Station, need DC adaptor spec
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b105b15b5ad9d933?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 11:37 am
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 23:06:29 -0500, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> Steve Firth wrote:
>>
>> Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I've spent time where the daytime high stayed below -20F for
>> > months
>> > at a time, with a record low of -69F.
>>
>> This is the 21st century, use SI units.
>
>
> The record was set last millenium, and that was when I was there. I
> appologize that you aren't smart enough to do the conversions.

Looks like you've got yourself into quite the pissing match with a couple
of these do it yourself retards.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Roland XP 60 , 5 octave keyboard , 1997
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3078908fbe1e3ff8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 11:42 am
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 21:53:23 +0000, Mark Zenier wrote:

> In article <pan.2010.11.28.17.03.57@lmao.lol.lol>, Meat Plow
> <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 16:39:09 +0000, N_Cook wrote:
>>
>>> Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:pan.2010.11.28.15.11.59@lmao.lol.lol...
>>>> On Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:11:54 +0000, N_Cook wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > In for a power supply fault but while in there, the floppy drive
>>>> > has never worked. Would it be a standard PC drive? or known simple
>>>> > repairable stock fault? It does klunk once, on pwering up , sort of
>>>> > PC fashion
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have an old S-20 that the floppy failed. Not a standard floppy. The
>>>> belt had turned to goo. After replacing , the diskette would not
>>>> read. Some tweaking of the head resulted in the disk to be read. Not
>>>> sure this applies to 60 but may be worth considering.
>
> As I remember, early Roland units used the 3 inch Hitachi 360k byte
> minidisc. Electromechanically, they looked like the 5 1/4 inch DD
> drives. (Half the bit rate, and 300 RPM). Other major users of them
> were the Amstrad computers in the UK. And, I think, fancy sewing
> machines of the time.

This is a Roland S10, don't know why S20 came to mind. Anyway you are
100% correct about the drive. I've done some research on it after owning
it for several years. It was given to me by a relative who had purchased
it new 20 some years ago. I have around 100 disks for it. It's a very
nice sounding unit. You can sample into it and it has a good arpeggio
function. Also works well with MIDI.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

==============================================================================
TOPIC: leaving conductors exposed
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/424fa524bd8577b8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 12:01 pm
From: mike

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article
> <2a2eb7c7-a29d-4939-a1cc-982ff46cee9a@g26g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>,
> s <ymailus@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> i got a desk lamp from ebay like the one in the image link below. the
>> bulb is held up by two adjustable telescopic rods, exactly the same
>> type as you would find on the aerial of a FM radio. they are metal.
>
>> i saw the double insulated symbol on the bottom, which go me thinking.
>> how did they get the wiring through these rods double insulated, they
>> are pretty thin. then i examined the rods. they had joints in them.
>> they werent even hollow! there was no wiring. they were the
>> conductors.
>
>> a quick check with the meter gave 20V AC. thats how it was designed
>> to light the bulb .
>
>> my question is can you have the double insulated symbol on a product
>> with exposed 20V AC conductors?
>
> I'd guess because 20 volt AC is considered safe. A 20 volt AC power supply
> could also have output terminals etc which wouldn't conform to mains etc
> voltages. The 'double insulation' is to help prevent mains appearing on
> parts you can touch easily.
>
> BTW, it's more likely to be approx 12v under load.
>

Ok, but how did it make it past the "fire hazard" category.
It's surely a source of ignition when you knock it over onto
a pair of scissors on the desk.

Methinks the inspector was either asleep or out cruising in the Beemer
he bought with the payoffs.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 4:08 pm
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <ie0lc2$qml$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
mike <spamme0@go.com> wrote:
> > I'd guess because 20 volt AC is considered safe. A 20 volt AC power
> > supply could also have output terminals etc which wouldn't conform to
> > mains etc voltages. The 'double insulation' is to help prevent mains
> > appearing on parts you can touch easily.
> >
> > BTW, it's more likely to be approx 12v under load.
> >

> Ok, but how did it make it past the "fire hazard" category.
> It's surely a source of ignition when you knock it over onto
> a pair of scissors on the desk.

A fuse somewhere?

> Methinks the inspector was either asleep or out cruising in the Beemer
> he bought with the payoffs.

Think you're worrying too much.

--
*Constipated People Don't Give A Crap*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: american beer inferier?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/79cf21563e25cfa2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 1:25 pm
From: "GlennR"

"Peter Lucas (SAS RET)" <psyop@lawyer.com> wrote in message
news:2dfc8571-5943-46b9-ae4b-3bb902d7e431@d24g2000prj.googlegroups.com...
> What do Urine and american Beer have in common?
> They both taste the same going in and comming out!!
>
> --
> Peter Lucas
> Brisbane
> Australia
>
> Q:Do you like Beef?
> A:Well suck my C.O.C.K Its Dripping!
>
> sticking it to ''Politcal Correctness'' since 2008
>

so, would you explain exactly how you tasted the beer coming out ?

I mean like how do the mechanics of that work ?

is that an Australian custom ?

do you taste it when it comes out again too ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: tv receivers have puny sound
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5d73f7ad8fcea692?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 2:24 pm
From: "Charles"

This is not a repair question, but I got flamed on the design forum and
thought that I'd try here. I was labeled a kook and a troll and ... Boy,
does that group have bunched up underwear!

I have three LCD tvs that work well, but the audio is thin. I know about
amps and external speakers and surround sound and all of that. Please don't
recommend external devices, as that is NOT what this post is about.

Is there a technology to build decent speakers into these skinny tv
receivers? The industry has come up with 3-D, dynamic LED backlighting, and
other nice features ... but no decent STAND ALONE SOUND.

There is a significant market for flat-panel tvs with decent stand-alone
sound. Any ideas?

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 2:43 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 17:24:38 -0500, Charles wrote:

> This is not a repair question, but I got flamed on the design forum and
> thought that I'd try here. I was labeled a kook and a troll and ...
> Boy, does that group have bunched up underwear!
>
> I have three LCD tvs that work well, but the audio is thin. I know
> about amps and external speakers and surround sound and all of that.
> Please don't recommend external devices, as that is NOT what this post
> is about.
>
> Is there a technology to build decent speakers into these skinny tv
> receivers? The industry has come up with 3-D, dynamic LED backlighting,
> and other nice features ... but no decent STAND ALONE SOUND.
>
> There is a significant market for flat-panel tvs with decent stand-alone
> sound. Any ideas?

Well certainly the technology exists. My TV has decent sound especially
the spatial. But I get some sympathetic vibration from the plastic chassis
when I turn up the volume. Makes one wonder if more importance is given
to the picture quality because of competition and because the trend is to
mate these TVs up with external surround sound systems.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 3:03 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> Is there a technology to build decent speakers into
> these skinny TV receivers?

Probably. But...

1. It will add to the size and cost of the set...
2. ...which is a turnoff for people who want compactness, and are going to
connect the set to their audio system, anyway.

Ergo, and QED, I don't think there /is/ much of a market for sets with
really good sound.

My 60" KURO came with two large speakers intended to hang on the sides, but
I didn't even listen to them. Instead, I attached two shoebox-sized KLH
Audio 900B speakers from Best Buy, which I got for $15 the pair (due to a
pricing screwup). They sound fine even on music. Unfortunately, KLH Audio is
out of business.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 3:08 pm
From: "Charles"

"Meat Plow" wrote in message news:pan.2010.12.11.22.43.48@lmao.lol.lol...

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 17:24:38 -0500, Charles wrote:

Perhaps the technology exists, but doubt that it is applied in most tvs. It
is now all about the picture these days, and the home theater mentality
dictates that serious sound can be achieved via add on devices. Not what I
want to do (add surround sound speakers, amps, sub-woofers, etc.). I want
to buy a tv with decent BUILT-IN sound.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 3:16 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 18:08:46 -0500, Charles wrote:

> Perhaps the technology exists, but doubt that it is applied in most tvs.
> It is now all about the picture these days, and the home theater
> mentality dictates that serious sound can be achieved via add on
> devices. Not what I want to do (add surround sound speakers, amps,
> sub-woofers, etc.). I want to buy a tv with decent BUILT-IN sound.

Well good luck. If you have the resources you may wish to do a little
footworks and visit some retailers and listen to the sound quality of
the sets on display. I run everything via optical digital from my DVR and
RF digital from my DVD to a 3.2.1 surround system. I've done this for 11
years even though my first large screen was a 51" rear projector with
very good built in sound.

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 3:22 pm
From: "Charles"

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
news:ie0vum$5bi$1@news.eternal-september.org...

> Is there a technology to build decent speakers into
> these skinny TV receivers?

Probably. But...

1. It will add to the size and cost of the set...
2. ...which is a turnoff for people who want compactness, and are going to
connect the set to their audio system, anyway.

1/ A marginal amount, is my guess.
2/ No turnoff if it is a marginal increase. In fact, it could be a selling
point for many consumers.
3/ Many of us into later technology misjudge the basic market ... there are
many out there who want a basic tv with decent sound, out of the box.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 3:58 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

When you say "puny sound", what you really mean is a lack of loud,
exaggerated bass. You can't get lots of bass at a high volume level cheaply.

Don't take this personally, but I really don't care. I have a decent pair of
inexpensive speakers connected to the set, which provide much better sound
than they have any right to. (I'm sometimes surprised at just how good it
is.) And when I want to listen seriously, I have a sophisticated six-channel
(plus cheap subwoofer) audiophile system. Really good sound /from the TV
itself/, out of the box, is exactly what I /don't/ want, and don't want to
pay for.

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 4:11 pm
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <ie0tn5$9sp$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
Charles <charlesschuler@comcast.net> wrote:
> Is there a technology to build decent speakers into these skinny tv
> receivers? The industry has come up with 3-D, dynamic LED backlighting,
> and other nice features ... but no decent STAND ALONE SOUND.

No. Decent speakers need space. And need to point at the listener. The
market seems to want the set to be all screen.

--
*Money isn�t everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 4:46 pm
From: D Yuniskis

Hi Charles,

Charles wrote:
> This is not a repair question, but I got flamed on the design forum and
> thought that I'd try here. I was labeled a kook and a troll and ...
> Boy, does that group have bunched up underwear!

<grin> They'd much rather rant about politics...

> I have three LCD tvs that work well, but the audio is thin. I know
> about amps and external speakers and surround sound and all of that.
> Please don't recommend external devices, as that is NOT what this post
> is about.
>
> Is there a technology to build decent speakers into these skinny tv
> receivers? The industry has come up with 3-D, dynamic LED backlighting,
> and other nice features ... but no decent STAND ALONE SOUND.
>
> There is a significant market for flat-panel tvs with decent stand-alone
> sound. Any ideas?

Flat panel TVs hype their smallness/thinness. Sound typically
requires "volume" (as in length x width x height -- not "loudness").
Note that the sound from LCD *monitors* is almost adequate.

BUT, you sit 18 inches away from a monitor; across the room
from a TV!

You will note that most higher end flat screen TVs *do* have
external speakers -- simply because good sound "requires" it.

"Yes, we have no bananas."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Lithium Cells Exploding
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/181af8dd8c2e6fde?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Dec 11 2010 4:52 pm
From: Cydrome Leader

Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:
>>
>> Michael Kennedy wrote:
>> > I recently found out that Lithium cells are no longer allowed in checked
>> > luggage on airplanes in the US.
>> >
>> > Personally I have tortured those lithium button cells and have never had
>> > them do anything really dangerous other than spew some nasty stuff out.
>>
>> There was an Austrian Airlines jet brought down because a shipment of
>> watches had a large number of the lithium cells in them leak in the
>> unpressurized cargo hold and catch fire.
>>
>> The "nasty stuff" is extremely flamable in large quantities.
>
>
> NASA won't allow any litium cells in space. We had to use 'Capstore'
> NVRAM in our products for space applications. Since the cost difference
> was small, we dropped the battery backed NVRAM from our products.

since when does nasa care about stuff catching on fire or exploding, or is
there some sort of higher energy battery failure mode they prefer?

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