sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Quest du jour- seeking T1.25 wire base blue tinted bulbs.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a26e1506f0b6d44b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jan 27 2011 10:02 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/26/2011 4:22 PM aemeijers spake thus:

> Anybody know a source for T1 1/4 wire base bulbs (NOT LEDs) with blue
> tint? Trying to replace the lights on the HVAC controls for a 2005
> Caravan. Dealer claims they are unserviceable, and wants to sell me a
> whole new pod for hundreds of dollars. I have already replaced them with
> T1's (too small) after buying T1 3/4 that were too big (I feel like
> Goldilocks), but the T1s are too short, and the blue condoms make them
> too dim. I am aware of McMaster-Carr and Allied- that is where I wasted
> my money on the first two tries, for the condoms and bulbs respectively.
> Allied has clear bulbs in the right size (now that dummy me figured out
> what the size is), but not the tinted ones.

Well, here's something novel for this thread: an actual possible source
of bulbs. Try donsbulbs. This search:

http://www.donsbulbs.com/cgi-bin/r/t.pl?searchb=t1-1%2F4

turned up a shitload of T1-1/4 bulbs. Sorry, too lazy to go through
them; maybe your bulb is in there somewhere. (Or you could contact the
guy; I think it's actually some guy named Don who runs this biz.)

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Broken CFL
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/75850803cb529797?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 5:00 am
From: "Wild_Bill"

Yep.. Lots of alarmist stuff filling the airwaves/media these days, in those
nasty microwaves and dangerous poison-laced paper products used for printed
materials.

I fill compelled to add a (personal view, based in reality) reminder/wakeup
that many of the materials considered to be extremely hazardous or
potentially deadly, began as materials that were definitely harmful to work
around for *years/decades* without proper personal protection.

Dust control, fume extraction and other precautions were simply often
neglect of employers to properly protect workers from years of long term
exposure.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............

"Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message
news:2hh4k6hdpkmpu3qrnrg92rbb2oqp91erss@4ax.com...
>
> You mean like this?
> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/mercury.jpg>
> The bottle is about 40% full. I used the missing mercury for various
> illegal and entertaining purposes. Re-silvering ancient sextant
> mirrors was one of my sidelines. I've also supplied some mercury to
> several doctors for refilling their mercury sphygmomanometer. The
> typical CFL bulb has about 3mg of Hg. When full, the bottle had a net
> weight of about 2kg of Hg.
>
> As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
> <http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf>
> "Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs3 sold in 2009 were sent
> to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) - they
> would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
> emissions caused by humans."
>
>
> `
> --
> # Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
> # 831-336-2558
> # http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
> # http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 6:43 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

> "Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs sold in 2009 were sent
> to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) -- they
> would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
> emissions caused by humans."

Mercury /is/ a poison, and we don't want people coming into contact with it.
However...

A simple mental calculation shows that 1,000,000 mercury button cells (of
the type that once powered cameras) would take up a volume of about 1 cubic
meter. Spread over 10,000 landfills, that's nothing.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 6:53 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf

>> "Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs3 sold in 2009 were sent
>> to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) � they
>> would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
>> emissions caused by humans."

> That's interesting. Of course, it tells us *nothing* about how alarmist
> and wrong what we "know" about mercury is; all it tells us is that the
> amount of mercury in CFLs is much smaller than the total amount of
> mercury let loose by human beans. Says nothing about mercury's toxicity.

> I guess I have an average mercury "body burden" since I have amalgam
> fillings. But I still can't for the life of me figure out just how it's
> OK to walk around with mercury in my TEETH just because it's been
> mixed with other metals. It's not even an *alloy*, for chrissakes. How
does
> that work?

I don't know exactly what is in an amalgam. But it's well know that you have
to grind your teeth vigorously to release any mercury. If you're worried,
have your dentist replace the fillings with glass/plastic "concrete".

Metallic mercury is less toxic than organic mercury compounds. This article
(correctly) explains that the mercury in CFLs is not much of problem -- then
tells people to air out the room if they break a bulb!

This is a classic example of people worrying about things that are of
relatively little importance, while ignoring significant problems.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 8:25 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:26:28 -0800, David Nebenzahl
<nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

>On 1/27/2011 8:50 PM Jeff Liebermann spake thus:
>
>> As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
>> <http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf>
>> "Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs3 sold in 2009 were sent
>> to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) � they
>> would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
>> emissions caused by humans."
>
>That's interesting. Of course, it tells us *nothing* about how alarmist
>and wrong what we "know" about mercury is; all it tells us is that the
>amount of mercury in CFLs is much smaller than the total amount of
>mercury let loose by human beans. Says nothing about mercury's toxicity.

The alarmist part is in the safe handling of broken CFL lamps and the
relative levels of mercury in the environment produced by breaking CFL
lamps verus electric power generation.

>(I guess I have an average mercury "body burden" since I have amalgam
>fillings.

Run a urine Porphyrin Profile test for mercury and see if you're
polluted or contaminated. It tests for organic methyl mercury
poisoning. There's also a stool test and a hair test. About $100. Be
sure to test for other heavy metals.

>But I still can't for the life of me figure out just how it's
>OK to walk around with mercury in my TEETH just because it's been mixed
>with other metals. It's not even an *alloy*, for chrissakes. How does
>that work?)

If your fillings were disappearing, you might be worried. I had some
dentistry done about 4 months ago. My wallet hurt more than my mouth.
The amalgum fillings were still all there, but the teeth rotted out
under them. So, we removed the amalgum fillings and replaced them
with UV cured cement. Cool stuff, looks good, and non-toxic, but no
improvement in overall health so far.

The danger is when the mercury binds with H2S gas produced in the
stomach and produces methyl mercury CH3-Hg-CH3 which is absorbed that
by various organs and produces assorted medical problems. There are
other mechanisms, such as eating methyl mercury in contaminated fish.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 8:46 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:00:53 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
<wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote:

>Yep.. Lots of alarmist stuff filling the airwaves/media these days, in those
>nasty microwaves and dangerous poison-laced paper products used for printed
>materials.

Now that you mention it, most of the lead in the environment came from
the lead used in newsprint and magazine ink. It was finally banned by
the EPA in 1985. In the form of printed ink, it's easily leached by
acidic water and ends up in the water supplies.

Incidentally, the mercury bottle is made from extremely heavy glass.
My guess is about 1/4" thick. I could probably drop the bottle and it
wouldn't break. However, the thin plastic cap is a substitute. The
heavy duty original broke long ago and was replaced by an inferior
substitute.

>I fill compelled to add a (personal view, based in reality) reminder/wakeup
>that many of the materials considered to be extremely hazardous or
>potentially deadly, began as materials that were definitely harmful to work
>around for *years/decades* without proper personal protection.

I used to make PCB boards at a small electronics manufactory in the
1970's. Washing our hands with trichloroethylene was common. Of the
3 people that worked this way, two have experienced some form of liver
damage. I was the lucky one. I guess we learn from experience.

>Dust control, fume extraction and other precautions were simply often
>neglect of employers to properly protect workers from years of long term
>exposure.

Yep. We learn from our mistakes (if we survive). The problem is with
the converse. If we have a history of successful and survivable
exposure and use of some product or chemical, there often emerges a
person or group advocating bans and regulations for dubious reasons.
Profitable litigation and settlements seems to be the current fashion.
Despite years of statistically significant data on exposure, one
marginal incident is sufficient to cast suspicion and possibly
precipitate a ban.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TAMIL ACTRESS HOT PHOTOS&VIDEOS
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/929d9b5b8830bb51?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 6:09 am
From: SRAVANTHI LOVE

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 9:08 am
From: SAILAJA LOVES U

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Two phases or not?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a29a801d6e01e9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 6:38 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> How does a center-tapped transformer secondary WHERE
> THE OUTPUT IS REFERENCED TO THE CENTER TAP
> (ie, the center tap is grounded) NOT generate two separate
> phases?

After thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't.

"Phase" implies a relative-timing relationship. Simply inverting polarity
doesn't change the timing between the two waveforms.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 8:44 am
From: Bill K7NOM

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>> How does a center-tapped transformer secondary WHERE
>> THE OUTPUT IS REFERENCED TO THE CENTER TAP
>> (ie, the center tap is grounded) NOT generate two separate
>> phases?
>
> After thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't.
>
> "Phase" implies a relative-timing relationship. Simply inverting polarity
> doesn't change the timing between the two waveforms.
>
>
If you compare the timing of the positive part of the sine wave you will
see that the two signals have different timing.

Bill K7NOM

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 10:15 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

"Bill K7NOM" <billj@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:rnC0p.58707$be.1929@newsfe05.iad...
> William Sommerwerck wrote:

>>> How does a center-tapped transformer secondary WHERE
>>> THE OUTPUT IS REFERENCED TO THE CENTER TAP
>>> (ie, the center tap is grounded) NOT generate two separate
>>> phases?

>> After thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't.
>> "Phase" implies a relative-timing relationship. Simply inverting polarity
>> doesn't change the timing between the two waveforms.

> If you compare the timing of the positive part of the sine wave you will
> see that the two signals have different timing.

No more than your image in a mirror is a separate being.

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 11:19 am
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/28/2011 6:38 AM William Sommerwerck spake thus:

>> How does a center-tapped transformer secondary WHERE
>> THE OUTPUT IS REFERENCED TO THE CENTER TAP
>> (ie, the center tap is grounded) NOT generate two separate
>> phases?
>
> After thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't.
>
> "Phase" implies a relative-timing relationship. Simply inverting polarity
> doesn't change the timing between the two waveforms.

That can't be correct.

Let's test the hypothesis. If we had two signals that were 179° out of
phase, would you not say that we had two separate phases? There is a
definite, though small, timing difference.

Let's say the signals were 181° out of phase: two phases again, correct?

So what's "special" or magic about 180° that it wouldn't be considered a
completely separate and distinct phase? Why would phase have a "hole" at
180°? (And for any wisenheimers who will say "well, you must consider 0°
to be a separate phase too!" I say nonsense: that's just a phase
"identity" which we can ignore as being identical to the original phase.)

People seem to be tripped up by the fact that it's trivially easy to
produce the 180° phase, and that it is, as you say, a mirror image of
its respective phase. But this doesn't make it any less of a separate phase.

The other fallacy here is that because we don't actually use 2-phase
electrical power, there cannot be any such thing as 2-phase power. It is
true that two phase power (0° - 180°) is not very useful; that's why we
don't have any 2-phase motors. But technically, a system with two legs
of 0° and 180° is, in fact, a 2-phase system.

Even if it's not called that. Even if it is not used *as a phased
system* (it's used to derive two legs from a step-down transformer in a
120-0-120 arrangement). It's still 2-phase power.

So whaddya say now?

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 11:28 am
From: David Nebenzahl

On 1/28/2011 11:19 AM David Nebenzahl spake thus:

> The other fallacy here is that because we don't actually use 2-phase
> electrical power, there cannot be any such thing as 2-phase power. It is
> true that two phase power (0° - 180°) is not very useful; that's why we
> don't have any 2-phase motors. But technically, a system with two legs
> of 0° and 180° is, in fact, a 2-phase system.

Actually, there is at least one application which depends on there being
2 phases in ordinary residential power distribution panels: the
so-called Edison circuit. This is where two circuits are run with
separate "hots" and a common neutral, where the neutral conductor is the
same size as the hots.

The only way this can work is if the two circuits are separate phases
(in this case, 180° apart), so that the currents cancel in the common
return conductor.

Apart from this, we wouldn't care if the two legs of the power company's
step-down transformer delivered the same phase of power (just give us
the juice! who cares about the phase?).

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 11:28 am
From: Mark Cross

David Nebenzahl wrote:

> On 1/28/2011 6:38 AM William Sommerwerck spake thus:
>
>>> How does a center-tapped transformer secondary WHERE
>>> THE OUTPUT IS REFERENCED TO THE CENTER TAP
>>> (ie, the center tap is grounded) NOT generate two separate
>>> phases?
>>
>> After thinking about this, I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't.
>>
>> "Phase" implies a relative-timing relationship. Simply inverting polarity
>> doesn't change the timing between the two waveforms.
>
> That can't be correct.
>
> Let's test the hypothesis. If we had two signals that were 179° out of
> phase, would you not say that we had two separate phases? There is a
> definite, though small, timing difference.
>
> Let's say the signals were 181° out of phase: two phases again, correct?
>
> So what's "special" or magic about 180° that it wouldn't be considered a
> completely separate and distinct phase? Why would phase have a "hole" at
> 180°? (And for any wisenheimers who will say "well, you must consider 0°
> to be a separate phase too!" I say nonsense: that's just a phase
> "identity" which we can ignore as being identical to the original phase.)

Repeat the hypothesis a 0º and you will find a hole in there, much the same
as there must be one at 180º.

To understand what is "magical" about that you will need to know phasors and
the math related to that. Once you understand the math that support phasors,
you clearly see why 0º and 180º are the same phasor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasor

> People seem to be tripped up by the fact that it's trivially easy to
> produce the 180° phase, and that it is, as you say, a mirror image of
> its respective phase. But this doesn't make it any less of a separate
> phase.
>
> The other fallacy here is that because we don't actually use 2-phase
> electrical power, there cannot be any such thing as 2-phase power. It is
> true that two phase power (0° - 180°) is not very useful; that's why we
> don't have any 2-phase motors. But technically, a system with two legs
> of 0° and 180° is, in fact, a 2-phase system.
>
> Even if it's not called that. Even if it is not used *as a phased
> system* (it's used to derive two legs from a step-down transformer in a
> 120-0-120 arrangement). It's still 2-phase power.
>
> So whaddya say now?

No, it isn't.

--
Mark Cross
If Linux doesn't have the solution, you have the wrong problem.

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 12:51 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"William Sommerwerck"

> "Phase" implies a relative-timing relationship.

** The term " phase shift " generally has that implication - but not the
term " phase " alone.

> Simply inverting polarity doesn't change the timing between the two
> waveforms.

** Irrelevant - see above.

In any case, for continuous sinewaves a 180 degree phase shift and signal
polarity inversion are completely indistinguishable.

.... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ESR meter built in seconds
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/43a6d9df89036edc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:19 am
From: George Herold

On Jan 28, 12:28 am, David Nebenzahl <nob...@but.us.chickens> wrote:
> On 1/27/2011 7:06 AM George Herold spake thus:
>
> > I used your techinque to look at a 1000uF cap. I used a DSO with a
> > bit of signal averaging. ('scope triggered from a sync output from the
> > generator) I got something like 0.016 ohms at 100kHz. Our SRS RCL
> > meter measured 0.014 ohms at 10kHz for the same cap. and then 'lost
> > it's mind' at 100kHz. (reported a negative capacitance.)
>
> Perhaps you've stumbled onto the "anti-capacitor". Maybe you could
> patent it ...
>
> --
> Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:
>
> To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
> who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
> that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

Hmm, Well I was thinking about this. Perhaps the RCL meter looks at
the phase shift to get the sign. The minus sign would indicate that
at 100kHz the 1000uF cap has passed through it's minimum impedance
point and is now rising up the other side and looking more inductive
to the driver.

(Just a guess.)
George H.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yamaha EMX5016 mixer amp from 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/bc288deddd9278ea?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:30 am
From: "N_Cook"

Last time of use at switch on the left hand ch went down in gain and
eventually stopped. With me of course cannot make it faulter.
PbF but of course no statement to that anywhere. Found a 1/4 inch crimp pcb
blade held into the pcb on a PbF wing and a prayer, a few more months before
the rectified mains feed to smps would have failed, but no problem found
with either amp ch. Other than taking apart and dealing with the usual PbF
suspects , anyone aware of a problem area of the mixer SM to specifically
look into ? Have to take the power side apart as that bad 1/4 inch but as
the LED bargraph reportedly dipped on L ch then probably in the mixer
somewhere

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Datasheet required STK795-820 or 821
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/632acd16eeba7502?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:34 am
From: Stroonz

Can't find one anywhere, maybe not available. Any help appreciated.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:43 am
From: Fred

Stroonz <str00ntz@aol.com> wrote in news:50ee54ab-1903-4898-adcd-
0030de67db00@u14g2000vbg.googlegroups.com:

> Can't find one anywhere, maybe not available. Any help appreciated.
>

You need to learn about www.google.com

I put in STK795 data sheet and got over 16,000 hits. Take your pick.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 11:18 am
From: Meat Plow

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:43:33 +0000, Fred wrote:

> Stroonz <str00ntz@aol.com> wrote in news:50ee54ab-1903-4898-adcd-
> 0030de67db00@u14g2000vbg.googlegroups.com:
>
>> Can't find one anywhere, maybe not available. Any help appreciated.
>>
>>
> You need to learn about www.google.com
>
> I put in STK795 data sheet and got over 16,000 hits. Take your pick.

Funny, he's posting from Google Groups :)

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pet hates ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7925b5c2233e9ec?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 7:58 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnik1vml.5bn.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...
>
>
> I wrote:
>>> Instead of the doomed
>>> national health plan they use in the UK,
>
> Arfa Daily wrote:
>
>> Meaning what, exactly ... ?
>
> Until the UK figures out a way to separate the National Health from the
> general
> budget, it's going to be "asuterity"'ed into nothingness.
>
> Since it is funded from the same fund as everything else, and has no
> competition, it just spends and spends and provides less services as money
> dries up.
>
> For example, according to a large cancer support organization around 90%
> of
> all cancer patients EVER see an oncologist (cancer specialist). This is up
> from less than 80 10 years ago.
>
> I'll give you an example I read in Reader's Digest. Currently when a tube
> gets partially used it is impossible to squeeze the medicine out. Someone
> in the UK invented a new tube with a knob on the bottom, costing about 1.5
> UKP
> each. This was going to save the national health millions.
>
> My wife goes to the "dollar store" and buys a set of plastic clamps which
> do the same thing. We use them for toothpaste, but you could use them
> for anything in a tube. If you had them made to order and shipped in bulk,
> they would cost a few pence.
>
> Geoff.
>
> --

Considering that you neither reside in the UK, nor have cause to make use of
the facilities of our health service, I find it a little presumptuous of
you to feel that you are qualified to pass comment on its continuing
viability, or otherwise. One thing that you need to understand, is that
NHS-bashing is a national sport here, and articles such as that which you
are quoting as being read by your wife, appear every week in the daily and
Sunday press. The Readers' Digest is no more separated from this practice
than any other press offerings, despite the way it tries to present itself.

As far as the content of the story goes, with the ongoing restructuring of
the health service, I very much doubt that medicines are being wasted in the
way described, as an 'across the board' event. For sure, somebody has
probably seen this being done in some health establishment somewhere, and
extrapolated this into common practice. The truth is probably much removed
from that. The people 'on the ground' in the health service are ordinary
folk like you and I, and I don't suppose they like to see waste in their
working lives, any more than they do in their personal ones. I'm sure that
if there is a way to get the remaining medicine out of the tube, the vast
majority of employees are doing so. Apart from that, we don't actually know
that there are not valid operational reasons why sometimes, medicines left
in containers may be thrown away. There could be contamination issues, or
maybe the medicine starts to deteriorate as soon as it is opened, and then
has a very short ongoing shelf life. Whilst there may be some truth in this
story, I think it needs to be considered with a degree of scepticism. These
stories are told in a way as to be deliberately provocative and to cause
outrage at supposed 'waste in the NHS'.

For the most part, the NHS delivers a first class service to patients and,
whilst there are errors made - and you will always be able to find someone
that has got some outrageous claim about how they or their uncle Willy or
their friend down the street was badly treated - the vast majority of people
are perfectly satisfied with the treatment and service that they receive,
and are glad that it is there for them 24 / 7 / 365, without having to worry
about who's going to pay. You must also remember that it is a huge
employer - I think I recently read somewhere that it is the largest employer
in the whole of Europe - and for that reason, if no other, there is going to
be issues with overstaffing and waste from time to time. This is true of any
large organisation, so is sure to be of a mega one like the NHS.

As to your comments about percentages of cancer patients being seen by an
oncologist, I'm not sure that I follow exactly what you were trying to say
there. With UK NHS patients, 100% of people will be referred to an
appropriate consultant (highest level of hospital-based specialist doctor /
surgeon in any particular field) if their general practitioner deems it
necessary. Patients suspected of having cancer are referred immediately, and
often seen within a few days. It is not unusual for treatment - either
medical, nuclear, surgical or all three, to be started within a week of
confirmed diagnosis.

So no. I think, as a resident of the UK, and a user of the NHS for the whole
of my life, you are quite wrong, and the health service is no more 'doomed'
than it has been at any time in its now quite lengthy existence. The current
round of financial austerity measures that have had to be implemented by
this incoming government to try to clear up the mess we are in, are sure to
have some impact on a very heavy tax-spender such as the NHS, but it will
certainly not be "austerity'd into nothing" as you so quaintly put it. The
hospital managers will have to learn better control of their finances, as
they have had to in the past. The only reason that they have forgotten how
to do this now, is that the previous government was of a socialist flavour,
and they thought that the way to improve everything, including the NHS, was
to throw money at it. This has resulted in a top-heavy management structure,
and a lot of internal waste. Once this has been addressed, the NHS will
again be able to deliver cost-effective high quality care, as it has in the
past.

Arfa

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 8:01 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in message
news:slrnik2j7d.po8.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>> Am I right in saying you consider the various private schemes in the US
>> the model of efficiency?
>
> No. You are completely off base. I think ObamaCare is a disaster. It goes
> too far in requirments and too short in providing things. Because it now
> limits the amount a company can raise premiums to 30% several people I
> know have had their payments raised 29.9%.
>
>>
>> The only way to fund a system designed for everyone - rich or poor - is
>> out of general taxation.
>
> Agreed. But it's how it is spent. I disagree with the whole NHS system.
> And no, I am not in the US. I am in Israel which has a much better system.
>
> As for your relatives, I hope they don't have cancer. If they live in a
> big
> city such as London, there is a 95% chance they will see a specialist
> ONCE.
> In the country the chance goes down to 50% or less.
>
> Second or recurring visits are also not as frequent, even in London.
>
> I did not make this up, here is some historical data:
>
> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116372/>
>
> You can get current data from:
>
> <http://www.macmillan.org.uk/>
>
> Geoff.
>

I'm sorry, but this is absolute nonsense, being quoted out of context, by
someone who has no direct knowledge or experience of the NHS.

Arfa

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 10:26 am
From: "Dave Plowman (News)"

In article <6LB0p.10873$UL4.1244@newsfe26.ams2>,
Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> > I did not make this up, here is some historical data:
> >
> > <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1116372/>
> >
> > You can get current data from:
> >
> > <http://www.macmillan.org.uk/>
> >
> > Geoff.
> >

> I'm sorry, but this is absolute nonsense, being quoted out of context,
> by someone who has no direct knowledge or experience of the NHS.

I only glanced at them. The first makes reference to statistics gathered
over 20 years ago. The second is a charity specialising in cancer care -
so obviously has a slanted view.

There's also a lot more to a health service than treating cancer -
important though that may be.

--
*I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 10:53 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 15:58:53 -0000, "Arfa Daily"
<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>As far as the content of the story goes, with the ongoing restructuring of
>the health service, I very much doubt that medicines are being wasted in the
>way described, as an 'across the board' event. For sure, somebody has
>probably seen this being done in some health establishment somewhere, and
>extrapolated this into common practice.

In the USA, there's a rule that bans the re-use or recycling of any
hospital dispensers, containers, plates, cups, trays, and such. I
think this started in about 2002. The official justification was to
help control hospital infections. The reality was a rather large
increase in costs, and an excuse for an increase in hospital care
charges. I asked what happens to all that stuff... high temp
incineration.

We also have a problem with Medicare fraud. However, it's not the
patients that are doing it. It's often medical organizations, that
build "paper" clinics, and fabricate fraudulent charges.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_fraud>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Medicaid_Fraud>
In the past, this was somewhat tolerated by the government for
hospitals because they were using creative Medicare charges to fund
marginal services, such as trauma care centers, non-paying indigent
care, and some counseling, that would otherwise have collapsed.

Even with all the fraud, the total costs of Medicare and the impending
Obamacare, is many orders of magnitude greater. With an annual cost
approching trillions of dollars, a few dollars saves on squeezing all
the medicine out of a tube isn't going to have much of an impact.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Desk Lamp Mercury
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/298b36c6025d19e8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 28 2011 10:58 am
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 06:45:34 +0000 (UTC),
vjp2.at@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:

>I got a new desk lamp from Staples and it has a warning about mercury. THe
>fluorescent bulb that came with it has the same warning. Am I right in
>assuming th emercury refered to the SBCFL? THe switch rotates on the same
>axis as the buld screws in, so given the gooseneck, I have no reason to
>believe the switch works with mercury (ie, gravity). Am I right?

Mercury switches and thermostats were banned in California starting in
Jan 2008. Most other states have enacted similar bans. There's also
a ban making it illegal to dispose of anything containing mercury in a
landfill.
<http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/HazardousWaste/Mercury/index.cfm>

More likely, the warning is for the fuorescent tube, which contains
about 4mg of mercury. This might explain a few details:
<http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf>

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "sci.electronics.repair"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to sci.electronics.repair+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

Electronics

sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

No Response to "sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest"

Post a Comment

Blog Roll

Blog Archive