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Today's topics:
* Easy ESR meter for Electros - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/915f2964a62e59af?hl=en
* Easy ESR meter - 16 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/43a6d9df89036edc?hl=en
* PING Jeff RE: VX-5 - 5 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8ca180bfba9ba753?hl=en
* Pet hates ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7925b5c2233e9ec?hl=en
* Two phases or not? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a29a801d6e01e9e?hl=en
* Exploding Duracell ProCell alkaline battery - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/176056a86108c6a8?hl=en
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Easy ESR meter for Electros
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/915f2964a62e59af?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:14 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
** Anyone who needs to check the ESR of a few electros can lash up a test
rig in seconds - all you need is a bench audio generator and a basic scope
or CRO as poms and Aussies call them.
Set the audio gen to about 100kHz (sine wave) use full level and connect
the output across the electro under test - then connect the scope probes
direct to the same cap, not the generator - this is important.
You should see a small voltage at 100kHz on the scope - say 2 to 100mV rms.
By comparison with known good electros of similar ratings, one can note the
residual voltages and determine if a given electro is OK.
If you put a 1 ohm test load on the audio gen - you can easily find the
output current and then use the voltage readings on the scope to get actual
ESR values for electros.
Tests can be done while caps are still in circuit - but be careful to make
sure they are fully discharged first !!!
.... Phil
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Easy ESR meter
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/43a6d9df89036edc?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:20 pm
From: Meat Plow
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:11:31 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:
> "Meat Plow"
>
>> My Leader audio generator doesn't do 100kHz.
>
> ** Wot a piece of shit.
>
> 50kHz will do, at a pinch.
It was certified by all my warranty work requirements.
Teac/Tascam, Panasonic, Sansui, Yamaha, Sony etc...
>
>> What 'audio generator' does?
>
>
> ** Nearly all go to at least 100 kHz.
>
> Many go out to 1MHz.
Why would an 'audio generator' need to have a resolution
up to 1 Mhz?
> Function generators often go out to way more.
That's nice but I use a signal/function generator to
generate signals out of the audio realm.
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:24 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"Meat Plow is a Stupid Cunt "
>
>>> My Leader audio generator doesn't do 100kHz.
>>
>> ** Wot a piece of shit.
>>
>> 50kHz will do, at a pinch.
>
> It was certified by all my warranty work requirements.
> Teac/Tascam, Panasonic, Sansui, Yamaha, Sony etc...
** It's still a piece of shit.
>>> What 'audio generator' does?
>>
>>
>> ** Nearly all go to at least 100 kHz.
>>
>> Many go out to 1MHz.
>
>> Function generators often go out to way more.
>
> That's nice but I use a signal/function generator to
> generate signals out of the audio realm.
** Then use it for this.
FUCKWIT !!!!
..... Phil
== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:28 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com
On Jan 24, 8:07 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> <stratu...@yahoo.com
>
> > Also, your math is wrong hotshot.
>
> > ** No it ain't.
>
> > Go get fucked you stupid cunt.
> > Yeah, it is. 0.1uF to 100uF is 1000 times, not 100 as you wrote.
>
> ** ROTFLMAO !!
>
> I wrote NOTHING OF THE SORT
>
> YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTHEAD !!
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> > Quote from you
>
> "** Totally insane BOLLOCKS !!!!!
>
> A 0.1uF ceramic has an impedance of 16 ohms at 100KHz - while a
> typical 100uF electro has an impedance of 0.16 ohms at 100kHz. That is 100
> times less !!! Imbecile"
>
> ** 100 times less is just what it is !!!
>
> YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTHEAD !!
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> > I said nothing of parallel cap values.
>
> ** You stinking bloody LIAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> " With any ESR meter there are 'gotchas' to beware of.
> Any ceramic caps in parallel with a 'lytic will mask the
> true condition of the 'lytic. "
>
> Go straight into hell you vile, waste of space.
>
> ..... Phil
Assuming you're perfect and found wanting seems to set you off. Have a
nice day.
G²
== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:37 pm
From: Meat Plow
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:24:01 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:
> "Meat Plow is a Stupid Cunt "
>>
>>>> My Leader audio generator doesn't do 100kHz.
>>>
>>> ** Wot a piece of shit.
>>>
>>> 50kHz will do, at a pinch.
>>
>> It was certified by all my warranty work requirements. Teac/Tascam,
>> Panasonic, Sansui, Yamaha, Sony etc...
>
>
> ** It's still a piece of shit.
Only in your mind. It does exactly what it was designed
to do.
>
>
>>>> What 'audio generator' does?
>>>
>>>
>>> ** Nearly all go to at least 100 kHz.
>>>
>>> Many go out to 1MHz.
>>
>>> Function generators often go out to way more.
>>
>> That's nice but I use a signal/function generator to generate signals
>> out of the audio realm.
>
>
> ** Then use it for this.
>
> FUCKWIT !!!!
>
>
>
> ..... Phil
But your point was use an 'audio generator.'
I guess in your own way you admit your advice was shite.
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:37 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
> Also, your math is wrong hotshot.
>
> ** No it ain't.
>
> Go get fucked you stupid cunt.
> Yeah, it is. 0.1uF to 100uF is 1000 times, not 100 as you wrote.
** ROTFLMAO !!
I wrote NOTHING OF THE SORT
YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTHEAD !!
---------------------------------------------------
> Quote from you
"** Totally insane BOLLOCKS !!!!!
A 0.1uF ceramic has an impedance of 16 ohms at 100KHz - while a
typical 100uF electro has an impedance of 0.16 ohms at 100kHz. That is 100
times less !!! Imbecile"
** 100 times less is just what it is !!!
YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTHEAD !!
---------------------------------------------------
> I said nothing of parallel cap values.
** You stinking bloody LIAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
" With any ESR meter there are 'gotchas' to beware of.
Any ceramic caps in parallel with a 'lytic will mask the
true condition of the 'lytic. "
Go straight into hell you vile, waste of space.
..... Phil
== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:44 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"Meat Plow is a Lying Stupid Cunt "
>
>>>
>>>>> My Leader audio generator doesn't do 100kHz.
** Which model is it??
Post a link to it.
I found 6 different "Leader" audio gens on the net and all go out to at
least 100kHz.
..... Phil
== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:45 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com
On Jan 24, 8:37 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> <stratu...@yahoo.com
>
> > Also, your math is wrong hotshot.
>
> > ** No it ain't.
>
> > Go get fucked you stupid cunt.
> > Yeah, it is. 0.1uF to 100uF is 1000 times, not 100 as you wrote.
>
> ** ROTFLMAO !!
>
> I wrote NOTHING OF THE SORT
>
> YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTHEAD !!
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> > Quote from you
>
> "** Totally insane BOLLOCKS !!!!!
>
> A 0.1uF ceramic has an impedance of 16 ohms at 100KHz - while a
> typical 100uF electro has an impedance of 0.16 ohms at 100kHz. That is 100
> times less !!! Imbecile"
>
> ** 100 times less is just what it is !!!
>
> YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTHEAD !!
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> > I said nothing of parallel cap values.
>
> ** You stinking bloody LIAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> " With any ESR meter there are 'gotchas' to beware of.
> Any ceramic caps in parallel with a 'lytic will mask the
> true condition of the 'lytic. "
>
> Go straight into hell you vile, waste of space.
>
> ..... Phil
0.1 into 100 is 100? Is that Aussie math? Answers a LOT of questions
though.
G²
== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:50 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
> > Also, your math is wrong hotshot.
>
> > ** No it ain't.
>
> > Go get fucked you stupid cunt.
> > Yeah, it is. 0.1uF to 100uF is 1000 times, not 100 as you wrote.
>
> ** ROTFLMAO !!
>
> I wrote NOTHING OF THE SORT
>
> YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTHEAD !!
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> > Quote from you
>
> "** Totally insane BOLLOCKS !!!!!
>
> A 0.1uF ceramic has an impedance of 16 ohms at 100KHz - while a
> typical 100uF electro has an impedance of 0.16 ohms at 100kHz. That is 100
> times less !!! Imbecile"
>
> ** 100 times less is just what it is !!!
0.1 into 100 is 100? Is that Aussie math?
** My god - you are one
FUCKING RETARDED CUNT !!!
16 divided by 0.16 = 100 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---------------------------------------------
Get CANCER and DIE you vile scumbag.
..... Phil
== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 8:57 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com
On Jan 24, 8:50 pm, "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> <stratu...@yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Also, your math is wrong hotshot.
>
> > > ** No it ain't.
>
> > > Go get fucked you stupid cunt.
> > > Yeah, it is. 0.1uF to 100uF is 1000 times, not 100 as you wrote.
>
> > ** ROTFLMAO !!
>
> > I wrote NOTHING OF THE SORT
>
> > YOU STUPID FUCKING CUNTHEAD !!
> > ---------------------------------------------------
>
> > > Quote from you
>
> > "** Totally insane BOLLOCKS !!!!!
>
> > A 0.1uF ceramic has an impedance of 16 ohms at 100KHz - while a
> > typical 100uF electro has an impedance of 0.16 ohms at 100kHz. That is 100
> > times less !!! Imbecile"
>
> > ** 100 times less is just what it is !!!
>
> 0.1 into 100 is 100? Is that Aussie math?
>
> ** My god - you are one
>
> FUCKING RETARDED CUNT !!!
>
> 16 divided by 0.16 = 100 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> Get CANCER and DIE you vile scumbag.
>
> ..... Phil
You're just too dense to deal with. G'Day mate.
G²
== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 9:01 pm
From: Meat Plow
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 15:44:20 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:
> "Meat Plow is a Lying Stupid Cunt "
>
>
>>
>>>>>> My Leader audio generator doesn't do 100kHz.
>
>
> ** Which model is it??
>
> Post a link to it.
>
> I found 6 different "Leader" audio gens on the net and all go out to at
> least 100kHz.
>
>
>
>
> ..... Phil
It's a LAG 120B and your right it's highest resolution is 1 Mhz.
Sorry. Never used it that high with amplifiers.
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 9:02 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
** This bullshit artist is the PRINCE of FUCKWITS
Other fuckwits round the world regard him with complete awe.
He shows them the way ........
> > Quote from you
>
> "** Totally insane BOLLOCKS !!!!!
>
> A 0.1uF ceramic has an impedance of 16 ohms at 100KHz - while a
> typical 100uF electro has an impedance of 0.16 ohms at 100kHz. That is 100
> times less !!! Imbecile"
>
> ** 100 times less is just what it is !!!
0.1 into 100 is 100? Is that Aussie math?
** My god - you are one
FUCKING RETARDED CUNT !!!
16 divided by 0.16 = 100 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
---------------------------------------------
Get CANCER and DIE you vile scumbag.
..... Phil
== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 9:14 pm
From: "Phil Allison"
"Meat Plow"
Phil Allison wrote:
>
>>>>>>> My Leader audio generator doesn't do 100kHz.
>>
>> ** Which model is it??
>>
>> Post a link to it.
>>
>> I found 6 different "Leader" audio gens on the net and all go out to at
>> least 100kHz.
>>
>>
> It's a LAG 120B and your right it's highest resolution is 1 Mhz.
>
> Sorry. Never used it that high with amplifiers.
** Apology accepted.
( I can hardly believe I am posting that .... )
One reason for having 100kHz or more available on an "Audio Generator" is to
enable the testing of audio filters that may have turn over frequencies at
say 22 kHz. To find the roll of slope, one needs to check the response for
several octaves above that frequency.
Another use is in testing the response of audio transformers - ie line,
mic or valve output. These often exhibit severe ringing at frequencies
between 25 kHz and 150kHz. This can often be eliminated with a suitable RC
damping network.
Audio gens also need to go down to 1 or 2 Hz as well - so one can check any
sub sonic filters included in amplifiers and other devices OR to force DC
and anti-thump protection relays in power amps to cycle to verify their
operation.
Many other good reasons exist too.
.... Phil
== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 9:22 pm
From: Meat Plow
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 16:14:58 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:
> "Meat Plow"
> Phil Allison wrote:
>>
>>>>>>>> My Leader audio generator doesn't do 100kHz.
>>>
>>> ** Which model is it??
>>>
>>> Post a link to it.
>>>
>>> I found 6 different "Leader" audio gens on the net and all go out to
>>> at least 100kHz.
>>>
>>>
>> It's a LAG 120B and your right it's highest resolution is 1 Mhz.
>>
>> Sorry. Never used it that high with amplifiers.
>
>
> ** Apology accepted.
>
> ( I can hardly believe I am posting that .... )
>
> One reason for having 100kHz or more available on an "Audio Generator"
> is to enable the testing of audio filters that may have turn over
> frequencies at say 22 kHz. To find the roll of slope, one needs to
> check the response for several octaves above that frequency.
>
> Another use is in testing the response of audio transformers - ie
> line, mic or valve output. These often exhibit severe ringing at
> frequencies between 25 kHz and 150kHz. This can often be eliminated
> with a suitable RC damping network.
>
> Audio gens also need to go down to 1 or 2 Hz as well - so one can check
> any sub sonic filters included in amplifiers and other devices OR to
> force DC and anti-thump protection relays in power amps to cycle to
> verify their operation.
>
> Many other good reasons exist too.
>
>
>
> .... Phil
Thanks and ESR solution archived. And I can't believe I didn't remember
the LAG 120 did 1 MHz seeing I've owned it now for 35 years. However I
ALWAYS used/use it for 400 -1000 MHz depending on calibration
instructions for various audio devices. I doubt it would even work on
higher resolutions without cleaning the push buttons. So once again
sorry.
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 10:08 pm
From: David Nebenzahl
On 1/24/2011 8:57 PM stratus46@yahoo.com spake thus:
[snip now-meaningless stuff]
Um, sir, you're going to need another ticket if you want to get on this
ride* again.
[The Phil Allison's Off His Meds Again Cyclo-Rama]
--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:
To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.
== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 10:08 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:01:10 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:58:37 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:
>> Set the audio gen to about 100kHz
>
>My Leader audio generator doesn't do 100kHz. What 'audio generator' does?
My Leader LFG-1300S goes to 2MHz. My broken Wavetek Model 120 also
goes to 2Mhz. My broken HP 3312A function generator would go to 13Mhz
if it would kindly allow itself to be fixed. The square waves start
to have rounded corners near the higher frequencies, but at 100Khz,
it's a real nice square wave.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 10:31 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"
Meat Plow wrote:
>
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 14:58:37 +1100, Phil Allison wrote:
>
> > ** Anyone who needs to check the ESR of a few electros can lash up a
> > test
> > rig in seconds - all you need is a bench audio generator and a basic
> > scope or CRO as poms and Aussies call them.
> >
> > Set the audio gen to about 100kHz
>
> My Leader audio generator doesn't do 100kHz. What 'audio generator' does?
EICO Model 377
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: PING Jeff RE: VX-5
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8ca180bfba9ba753?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 9:00 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:11:28 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I think the .70cm band howl is due to the PL tone
>of what I listen to the most, local public safety
>with a high 167.9? tone. Doesn't happen on a ham repeater with 110.9.
Put an oscilloscope on the speaker and see for yourself. It's
possible but it would need to be belching harmonics of 167.9Hz to be
heard. The 300 Hz high pass filter in the receiver works quite well.
The local railroad uses a 203.5 Hz tone, which I can't hear on my
VX-5r. Also, it wouldn't "howl" or "ring" if it were PL feed through
unless it were on the same mechanical resonance that's causing the VCO
to become microphonic.
>Haven't tried to put some pressure on the board to dampen an oscillation
>between the speaker and the board yet.
My guess(tm) is that some foam pads in strategic places will eliminate
the microphonics.
>If i leave it on for more than 5
>minutes it doesn't act up.
That's unusual. That can't be PL feedthrough unless the audio section
is drifting around in gain or phase. My brain is into paying bills
tonite, so give me a little time to think about that one. They
symptoms don't seem very consistent with microphonics.
>Also the power on problem is now 3 pushes
>then hold and it turns one, every time. I hold the button for 1 second
>in between pushes.
Open radio. Remove membrane keyboard. Clean with alcohol and "sand"
the graphite contacts. Clean the mating PCB pads. That should get
rid of that problem.
>Also I failed to mention I did not use this radio
>for maybe 6 months, during the period I only used my new FT-60. The VX-5
>was nearly impossible to turn on after that. But the more it's used
>the quicker it comes on.
Well, the VX-5r could have become jealous of the FT-60 during this
time, but I doubt it. Try separating the two and see if they behave
in a more civilized manner.
>Finally, it's hard to believe the original battery still performs like
>new. Makes me wonder why some fail so quickly. Must be a quality issue.
I've seen that will some cell phone batteries. The OEM batteries seem
to last forever, while the cheap Chinese eBay clones, die in less than
half the time. Of course, I can buy maybe 10 cheap batteries for one
OEM from the cellular provider, so buying junk is still a win. The
battery in my VX-5R is the same as it was purchased by the former
owner. My guess is about 1998. It still seems as good as new but I
haven't bothered to verify that with my West Mtn Radio CBA-II battery
tester.
Drivel: Now programming a VX-6R for a friend. I discovered yesterday
that my VX-5R cable won't fit in the VX-6R. both radios have a fairly
standard 4 pin 3.5mm connector. However, The VX-6R connector has a
threaded section instead of the flush plastic body. The result is the
VX-6R cable will fit in the VX-5R (and others), but not the reverse.
Welcome to designed obsolescence. Buy a new radio, and you have to
buy a new programming cable (and software). Incidentally, the various
VX-?r Commander software is much better than the stock RT Systems or
Yaesu software.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 9:15 pm
From: Meat Plow
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 21:00:48 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 04:11:28 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I think the .70cm band howl is due to the PL tone of what I listen to
>>the most, local public safety with a high 167.9? tone. Doesn't happen on
>>a ham repeater with 110.9.
>
> Put an oscilloscope on the speaker and see for yourself. It's possible
> but it would need to be belching harmonics of 167.9Hz to be heard. The
> 300 Hz high pass filter in the receiver works quite well. The local
> railroad uses a 203.5 Hz tone, which I can't hear on my VX-5r. Also, it
> wouldn't "howl" or "ring" if it were PL feed through unless it were on
> the same mechanical resonance that's causing the VCO to become
> microphonic.
I can hear the PL tone. Maybe the highpass filter isn't working? It's not
loud but it's there. Hook it up to an external com speaker and it loud.
>>Haven't tried to put some pressure on the board to dampen an oscillation
>>between the speaker and the board yet.
>
> My guess(tm) is that some foam pads in strategic places will eliminate
> the microphonics.
I'm going to do that when i peel it apart and clean the touchpad.
>>If i leave it on for more than 5
>>minutes it doesn't act up.
>
> That's unusual. That can't be PL feedthrough unless the audio section
> is drifting around in gain or phase. My brain is into paying bills
> tonite, so give me a little time to think about that one. They symptoms
> don't seem very consistent with microphonics.
Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.
>>Also the power on problem is now 3 pushes then hold and it turns one,
>>every time. I hold the button for 1 second in between pushes.
>
> Open radio. Remove membrane keyboard. Clean with alcohol and "sand"
> the graphite contacts. Clean the mating PCB pads. That should get rid
> of that problem.
>
>>Also I failed to mention I did not use this radio for maybe 6 months,
>>during the period I only used my new FT-60. The VX-5 was nearly
>>impossible to turn on after that. But the more it's used the quicker it
>>comes on.
>
> Well, the VX-5r could have become jealous of the FT-60 during this time,
> but I doubt it. Try separating the two and see if they behave in a more
> civilized manner.
I'll try separating the two. But the VX-5 has nothing to be jealous
of the FT-60. It's full 5 watts on 2 with the E-DC-5B cig plug.
>>Finally, it's hard to believe the original battery still performs like
>>new. Makes me wonder why some fail so quickly. Must be a quality issue.
>
> I've seen that will some cell phone batteries. The OEM batteries seem
> to last forever, while the cheap Chinese eBay clones, die in less than
> half the time. Of course, I can buy maybe 10 cheap batteries for one
> OEM from the cellular provider, so buying junk is still a win. The
> battery in my VX-5R is the same as it was purchased by the former owner.
> My guess is about 1998. It still seems as good as new but I haven't
> bothered to verify that with my West Mtn Radio CBA-II battery tester.
>
> Drivel: Now programming a VX-6R for a friend. I discovered yesterday
> that my VX-5R cable won't fit in the VX-6R. both radios have a fairly
> standard 4 pin 3.5mm connector. However, The VX-6R connector has a
> threaded section instead of the flush plastic body. The result is the
> VX-6R cable will fit in the VX-5R (and others), but not the reverse.
> Welcome to designed obsolescence. Buy a new radio, and you have to buy
> a new programming cable (and software). Incidentally, the various VX-?r
> Commander software is much better than the stock RT Systems or Yaesu
> software.
I would almost expect that being a ham on decade 3 of his license.
Oh and more drivel. I have two batteries for the FT-60. One will charge
with the E-DC-5B cig plug, one wont. However both charge to 8.3 volts
in the rapid drop charger CD-29. Both are 1400mah 7.2v. Got any insight
on that?
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 10:46 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 05:15:01 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I can hear the PL tone. Maybe the highpass filter isn't working? It's not
>loud but it's there. Hook it up to an external com speaker and it loud.
The tiny speaker inside the radio probably has no low frequency
response and will greatly help reduce any PL feedthrough. However,
your external speaker will probably work below 300Hz, making the buzz
appear louder.
However, the real question what frequency are you hearing? My
guess(tm) is very little fundamental (167.9) and plenty of harmonics.
Also, try listening to the same channel on a scanner or other radio.
If all the receivers hear the buzz, it's coming from the transmitter.
If only the VX-5R belches buzz, there's a problem inside.
>> That's unusual. That can't be PL feedthrough unless the audio section
>> is drifting around in gain or phase. My brain is into paying bills
>> tonite, so give me a little time to think about that one. They symptoms
>> don't seem very consistent with microphonics.
>
>Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.
Huh? That's backwards if it's microphonics. I like mysteries but
this is more than a little odd.
>I'll try separating the two. But the VX-5 has nothing to be jealous
>of the FT-60. It's full 5 watts on 2 with the E-DC-5B cig plug.
Yep. It also has a built in timeout timer at 5 watts out. It gets so
hot that you can't hold it in your hand after about 1 minute of
transmitting.
Paraphrasing Sherlock Holmes, after the impossible, rediculous, inane,
stupid, and absurd theories have been eliminates, that what remains,
no matter how dumb sounding, must be the explanation. Make sure the
FT-60 is in a separate room when testing the VX-5r. The jealousy
theory still has merit until disproven.
>Oh and more drivel. I have two batteries for the FT-60. One will charge
>with the E-DC-5B cig plug, one wont. However both charge to 8.3 volts
>in the rapid drop charger CD-29. Both are 1400mah 7.2v. Got any insight
>on that?
Sorry, no clue. I've seen some clone batteries fail to charge in the
cell phone because the vendor left out the monitoring chip from the
battery pack to save a few pennies. They would charge in various
"universal" cell phone chargers, but not inside the phone. There are
also various anti-counterfeit battery chips being used by some vendors
after litigation for alleged injuries caused by exploding cell phone
batteries.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 11:03 pm
From: Meat Plow
On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:46:57 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 05:15:01 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow <mhywatt@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I can hear the PL tone. Maybe the highpass filter isn't working? It's
>>not loud but it's there. Hook it up to an external com speaker and it
>>loud.
>
> The tiny speaker inside the radio probably has no low frequency response
> and will greatly help reduce any PL feedthrough. However, your external
> speaker will probably work below 300Hz, making the buzz appear louder.
>
> However, the real question what frequency are you hearing? My guess(tm)
> is very little fundamental (167.9) and plenty of harmonics.
Depends if the PL tone is dirty? It may be or at too high a level? Yet
you can't even hear it on the FT-60.
> Also, try listening to the same channel on a scanner or other radio. If
> all the receivers hear the buzz, it's coming from the transmitter. If
> only the VX-5R belches buzz, there's a problem inside.
Yeah its detectable on a couple different scanners. And even on the
internet scanners used by scanner-911-something.com Lets you listen to
police on your computer or Ipod Touch.
>>> That's unusual. That can't be PL feedthrough unless the audio section
>>> is drifting around in gain or phase. My brain is into paying bills
>>> tonite, so give me a little time to think about that one. They
>>> symptoms don't seem very consistent with microphonics.
>>
>>Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.
>
> Huh? That's backwards if it's microphonics. I like mysteries but this
> is more than a little odd.
It kid ov validates the grounding problem I first read. More vibrates
seats the grounds. I will first try to dispute or prove this by following
the instructions I have archived. Before I try pressure on the board.
>>I'll try separating the two. But the VX-5 has nothing to be jealous of
>>the FT-60. It's full 5 watts on 2 with the E-DC-5B cig plug.
>
> Yep. It also has a built in timeout timer at 5 watts out. It gets so
> hot that you can't hold it in your hand after about 1 minute of
> transmitting.
I think the TOT is for packet mostly. Most repeaters running in normal
mode allow 1 minute continuous if that. And yes the brick in the VX gets
very hot. Especially on 6 meters. probably an antenna mismatch VSWR
thingy.
> Paraphrasing Sherlock Holmes, after the impossible, rediculous, inane,
> stupid, and absurd theories have been eliminates, that what remains, no
> matter how dumb sounding, must be the explanation. Make sure the FT-60
> is in a separate room when testing the VX-5r. The jealousy theory still
> has merit until disproven.
>
>>Oh and more drivel. I have two batteries for the FT-60. One will charge
>>with the E-DC-5B cig plug, one wont. However both charge to 8.3 volts in
>>the rapid drop charger CD-29. Both are 1400mah 7.2v. Got any insight on
>>that?
>
> Sorry, no clue. I've seen some clone batteries fail to charge in the
> cell phone because the vendor left out the monitoring chip from the
> battery pack to save a few pennies. They would charge in various
> "universal" cell phone chargers, but not inside the phone. There are
> also various anti-counterfeit battery chips being used by some vendors
> after litigation for alleged injuries caused by exploding cell phone
> batteries.
Both Ft-60 packs are factory. And both charge normal on the rapid
charger. It stumps me why only one charges using the cig plug.
--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse
== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 11:26 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann
On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 07:03:36 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
<mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 22:46:57 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> However, the real question what frequency are you hearing? My guess(tm)
>> is very little fundamental (167.9) and plenty of harmonics.
>
>Depends if the PL tone is dirty?
Yes. If the high pass filter is doing its job, then you a pure sine
wave (i.e. no harmonics) will NOT be heard in the speaker, even if it
is slightly over deviated. The catch is that the de-emphasis network
makes low frequency modulation rather loud while attenuating the highs
with a -6dB/octave roll-off. If the PL deviation is high enough, it
will hit some limit, clip, and therefore generate harmonics. Each
radio has it's own limit as to how much PL over-deviation it can
handle. My guess is anything up to about +/- 1.5KHz is fairly clean.
>It may be or at too high a level?
No. See previous guesswork. If the over-deviated, but clean, you
should not be able to hear it through the high pass filter (unless the
tone is sufficiently close to the filter edge to leak through. If you
have a service monitor, you should be able to test the VX-5R receiver
for how much PL it can handle before it clips and spews harmonics.
>Yet
>you can't even hear it on the FT-60.
Different tolerances to over deviated PL? I don't know without
running some bench tests on the radios.
>Yeah its detectable on a couple different scanners. And even on the
>internet scanners used by scanner-911-something.com Lets you listen to
>police on your computer or Ipod Touch.
Most scanners have really marginal PL high pass filters. Internet
scanners are a different horror story. Some spew flat audio directly
from the discriminator. The result is that this bypasses the
de-emphasis network and high pass PL filter. RadioReference.com has
recognized the problem and inserts de-emphasis and high pass filters
on their end, but that's a band-aid. The filtering really should be
done at the source. Sometimes they forget, and the audio really
sounds awful and full of PL buzz. Other reflectors just resend what
they receive, resulting in the same awful audio and buzz. No clue
what you're hearing. I would put the feed on an audio spectrum
analyzer and look at what's being received. If the audio envelope
looks like it's sloping downward at about -6dB/octave, you're getting
flat audio. If the PL looks like a comb line, it's being clipped
somewhere.
>>>Yeah. If I crank the volume the howl goes away faster.
>>
>> Huh? That's backwards if it's microphonics. I like mysteries but this
>> is more than a little odd.
>
>It kid ov validates the grounding problem I first read. More vibrates
>seats the grounds. I will first try to dispute or prove this by following
>the instructions I have archived. Before I try pressure on the board.
Sounds fair. Radio diagnostics and service by remote control is far
from perfected. I'm always open to alternative explanations.
>Both Ft-60 packs are factory. And both charge normal on the rapid
>charger. It stumps me why only one charges using the cig plug.
Bad connection on the battery monitor contact? Sorry, but I can't
think of anything better.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pet hates ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7925b5c2233e9ec?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 9:04 pm
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> As a former member of the Anti Digit Dialing League and fan of The
> Prisoner (I am not a number...), I find the whole effort amusing.
><http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,827416,00.html>
Here in Israel beef cuts are sold by number instead of name. I always make a
point of asking my wife to buy a number 6 for dinner.
I was always amused by the re-imagined Battelstar Galactica, where they
bad guys had numbers instead of names. Their main character was number
6.
Geoff.
--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Two phases or not?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0a29a801d6e01e9e?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 11:29 pm
From: "Michael Kennedy"
"David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
news:4d3e4a7b$0$21367$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
> On 1/24/2011 7:40 PM Michael Kennedy spake thus:
>
>> "David Nebenzahl" <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote in message
>> news:4d3a3c1e$0$31597$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>>
>>> I'm posting this to try to settle an argument going on in another
>>> newsgroup (alt.home.repair) about phases in electrical power.
>>
>> <SNIP> And you have started another arguement here. haha..
>>
>> Honestly this is a question that I have always had, and can't understand
>> why it isnt called 2 phase. Unless there is something to the picture I am
>> unaware of.
>>
>> This qustion will enevetably be debated to the end of time. It is kind of
>> like discussing poloitcs or religion..
>
> Well, it really shouldn't be like that. I mean, look, we're discussing a
> well-known, measurable phenomenon. The output of the center-tapped
> transformer can be demonstrated to supply two separate and distinct
> phases. Hell, hook up two 'scopes and see what they show.
>
> It's just that the 'lectric-heads--the lunks who install distribution
> panels and such--won't let us *call* it "2-phase" for several dubious
> reasons. Doesn't change the fact that it IS two-phase power. That's what
> I'm getting at. I'm not trying to force anyone to change their terminology
> or give up their superstitious beliefs; I know that that's futile.
>
>
Unfortunately. Maybe we should more generic terminology to describe this.
There is a difference in the phase of the two legs off of a center tapped
transformer. This can not be argued. Anyone who argues so can go hook up a
couple scopes for themselves as you suggested.
Maybe the confusion exsists because of the nature of two seperate phase
(split phase) power vs 3. Correct me if I am wrong, but any device requiring
240V could be powered by 2 legs of a center tapped 7200V==>120V N 120V
transformer or could be powered by a 7200V==>240V transformer with the same
results.
That said Im sure someone will tell me why my theory of why this is a
confusion is wrong..
- Mike
==============================================================================
TOPIC: Exploding Duracell ProCell alkaline battery
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/176056a86108c6a8?hl=en
==============================================================================
== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 24 2011 11:47 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann
Compliments of friend, we mow have a good example of what happens
when one shorts the terminals of a 9V Duracell ProCell alkaline
battery.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/Duracell-01.jpg>
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/Duracell-02.jpg>
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/Duracell-03.jpg>
He mentioned that the battery sounded like a small firecracker when
it exploded. The white debris scattered around the desk is probably
the paper battery plate spacer material.
--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
==============================================================================
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