sci.electronics.repair - 18 new messages in 3 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

* A source of information? - 15 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3dd64f43f159e14f?hl=en
* 30 GB Video IPod redux - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a8cdcbc5c8be1933?hl=en
* Arcam amp ... - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7cc228c388c21ebf?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A source of information?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3dd64f43f159e14f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 3:46 pm
From: "Charles"


http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/electronic_components/transistor/transistor_codes/transistor_numbering.php

Hard to decipher some semiconductor part numbers, these days.

1N, 2N, 3N devices are well defined but 4N and 5N and 6N parts were never?
defined. Does anybody out there actually know if the old JEDEC standard was
dropped, or usurped, or has it just faded into the past? I cannot find a
JEDEC reference to a 6Nxxx optocoupler.

== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 4:01 pm
From: "Charles"


"Charles" wrote in message news:ijn0dd$8dk$1@news.eternal-september.org...

http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/electronic_components/transistor/transistor_codes/transistor_numbering.php

Hard to decipher some semiconductor part numbers, these days.

1N, 2N, 3N devices are well defined but 4N and 5N and 6N parts were never?
defined. Does anybody out there actually know if the old JEDEC standard was
dropped, or usurped, or has it just faded into the past? I cannot find a
JEDEC reference to a 6Nxxx optocoupler.

http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/104059/HP/6N134.html

== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 4:01 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Charles the Fuckwit "
>
> http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/electronic_components/transistor/transistor_codes/transistor_numbering.php


** Some just as dopey as "Charles" must have written the above drivel.

Fraid it is just plain WRONG !!

2N5459 = j-fet.

2N4444 = SCR

2N5446 = triac


> Hard to decipher some semiconductor part numbers, these days.
>
> 1N, 2N, 3N devices are well defined...

** Like hell they are.


.... Phil


== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 4:12 pm
From: "Charles"


Dear God of electronics; we kneel before you and pay homage and ... suck
your down draft and ....

The JEDEC standard worked to some extent. I think perhaps I need more than
you can provide, dear GOD

== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 4:21 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Charles the Loon"

> Dear God of electronics; we kneel before you and pay homage and ... suck
> your down draft and ....


** Fuck you - you vile, autistic little cunt.


> The JEDEC standard worked to some extent.


** Shame you do not.

Go to hell - you horrible, smelly damn TROLL.


..... Phil

== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 4:30 pm
From: David Nebenzahl


On 2/18/2011 4:12 PM Charles spake thus:

> Dear God of electronics; we kneel before you and pay homage and ... suck
> your down draft and ....
>
> The JEDEC standard worked to some extent. I think perhaps I need more than
> you can provide, dear GOD

It appears from your numerous recent postings that you need to learn
something about how Usenet (that's where you've posted these messages)
works.

You've posted the same question now in at least three threads in this
newsgroup with no apparent luck so far, apart from drawing some abuse
from Phil Allison. (A word about Phil: while he can be an absolute ass,
especially when he is apparently off his meds, he is also quite
knowledgable about things electronic.)

You might want to think about rephrasing your question: what is it you
want to know, anyhow? I think Phil is right: the JEDEC standard, at
least the 2Nxxxx one, is demonstrably NOT uniform, orthogonal,
standardized, as he demonstrated. Now, if you just want to complain or
rant about this lack of usefulness in this "standard", you are of course
welcome to do so here; just realize that you probably won't get much in
the way of useful feedback if you do.

On the other hand, if you're trying to track down some specific part #s,
then why don't you just say so?


--
The phrase "jump the shark" itself jumped the shark about a decade ago.

- Usenet


== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 5:19 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"David Nebenzahl"

"Charles the Loon"

> You've posted the same question now in at least three threads in this
> newsgroup with no apparent luck so far, apart from drawing some abuse from
> Phil Allison. (A word about Phil: while he can be an absolute ass,
> especially when he is apparently off his meds, he is also quite
> knowledgable about things electronic.)
>
> You might want to think about rephrasing your question: what is it you
> want to know, anyhow? I think Phil is right: the JEDEC standard, at least
> the 2Nxxxx one, is demonstrably NOT uniform, orthogonal, standardized, as
> he demonstrated. Now, if you just want to complain or rant about this lack
> of usefulness in this "standard", you are of course welcome to do so here;
> just realize that you probably won't get much in the way of useful
> feedback if you do.
>
> On the other hand, if you're trying to track down some specific part #s,
> then why don't you just say so?


** There is no percentage in giving singing lessons to pigs.

.... Phil


== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 5:47 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"


> 1N, 2N, 3N devices are well defined
> but 4N and 5N and 6N parts were never?

I believe the initial number is the number of PN junctions in the device --
at least as far as junction devices go.


== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 5:52 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"William Sommerwanker"

>> 1N, 2N, 3N devices are well defined
>> but 4N and 5N and 6N parts were never?
>
> I believe the initial number is the number of PN junctions in the
> device --
> at least as far as junction devices go.


** How many junctions does a 2N5459 j-fet have ?

.... Phil


== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 5:55 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"


>>> 1N, 2N, 3N devices are well defined
>>> but 4N and 5N and 6N parts were never?

>> I believe the initial number is the number of PN junctions
>> in the device -- at least as far as junction devices go.

> ** How many junctions does a 2N5459 j-fet have?

Technically, one. JFETs are not generally considered "junction" transistors,
though they contain a junction. That's why I phrased my remark as I did.


== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 5:59 pm
From: "Phil Allison"


William Sommerwanker"
>>
>>>> 1N, 2N, 3N devices are well defined
>>>> but 4N and 5N and 6N parts were never?
>
>>> I believe the initial number is the number of PN junctions
>>> in the device -- at least as far as junction devices go.
>
>> ** How many junctions does a 2N5459 j-fet have?
>
> Technically, one.


** Then it breaks your hypothesis.


> JFETs are not generally considered "junction" transistors,

** Irrelevant.

> That's why I phrased my remark as I did.


** Which included j-fets - piss head.


.... Phil


== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 6:22 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann


On Fri, 18 Feb 2011 18:46:53 -0500, "Charles"
<charlesschuler@comcast.net> wrote:

>http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/electronic_components/transistor/transistor_codes/transistor_numbering.php
>
>Hard to decipher some semiconductor part numbers, these days.
>
>1N, 2N, 3N devices are well defined but 4N and 5N and 6N parts were never?
>defined. Does anybody out there actually know if the old JEDEC standard was
>dropped, or usurped, or has it just faded into the past? I cannot find a
>JEDEC reference to a 6Nxxx optocoupler.

The type designations are controlled by the JEDEC under document
JESD270B which tracks ANSI/EIA-370-B-1992. You can get a copy at:
<http://www.jedec.org/standards-documents/docs/jesd-370b>
but you'll need to register and login.

Section 1a mumbles something about the first digit, minus 1, equals
the number of useful electrical connections (which do not include the
case shield connection). So, if your device has a half dozen
electrical connections, it would be a 5Nxxxx.

Good luck decoding the rest of the document. If there were some
slip-ups in device classification, my guess(tm) is that it was because
nobody could understand the document.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS


== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 6:28 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann


On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 11:01:38 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>"Charles the Fuckwit "
>>
>> http://www.electronics-radio.com/articles/electronic_components/transistor/transistor_codes/transistor_numbering.php
>
>
>** Some just as dopey as "Charles" must have written the above drivel.
>
> Fraid it is just plain WRONG !!
>
> 2N5459 = j-fet.
>
> 2N4444 = SCR
>
> 2N5446 = triac
>
>
>> Hard to decipher some semiconductor part numbers, these days.
>>
>> 1N, 2N, 3N devices are well defined...
>
> ** Like hell they are.

Go easy on the white space consumption. At your present rate of
wasting white space, the world's supply will soon be depleted and
AllTheWordsWillRunTogether.

Go thee unto:
<http://www.jedec.org/standards-documents/docs/jesd-370b>
register, login, download, and read the document. In particular, see
section 1A, which says that the numeric prefix is by the number of
active connections, minus one. the JFET, SCR, Triac, and Transistor
all have 3 active leads. I don't have my calculator handy, but I
suspect if I subtract 1 from this, I get the 2N prefix. 4 and 5
leaded devices, such as optoisolators and dual gate MOSFET's, are also
consistent. Anyways, it's NOT by device type. It's by the number of
active connections.

Full moon tonite...

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS


== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 6:35 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Jeff Liebermann"
>
> The type designations are controlled by the JEDEC under document
> JESD270B which tracks ANSI/EIA-370-B-1992. You can get a copy at:
> <http://www.jedec.org/standards-documents/docs/jesd-370b>
> but you'll need to register and login.
>
> Section 1a mumbles something about the first digit, minus 1, equals
> the number of useful electrical connections (which do not include the
> case shield connection).

** Fits nicely with 3Nxxx numbers being all dual gate mosfets.


> So, if your device has a half dozen
> electrical connections, it would be a 5Nxxxx.

** Dunno if JEDEC numbers really cover ICs at all.

Imagine an SMD uP being a " 99Nxxxxx "

Is the 4Nxx series of optos JEDEC registered ??


..... Phil


== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 6:58 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann


On Sat, 19 Feb 2011 13:35:45 +1100, "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au>
wrote:

>"Jeff Liebermann"
>>
>> The type designations are controlled by the JEDEC under document
>> JESD270B which tracks ANSI/EIA-370-B-1992. You can get a copy at:
>> <http://www.jedec.org/standards-documents/docs/jesd-370b>
>> but you'll need to register and login.
>>
>> Section 1a mumbles something about the first digit, minus 1, equals
>> the number of useful electrical connections (which do not include the
>> case shield connection).
>
>** Fits nicely with 3Nxxx numbers being all dual gate mosfets.

Yep. That's consistent.

>> So, if your device has a half dozen
>> electrical connections, it would be a 5Nxxxx.
>
>** Dunno if JEDEC numbers really cover ICs at all.

It doesn't. The system of counting leads would rapidly become
useless. I'm too lazy to check who controls the 74xx designations.

> Imagine an SMD uP being a " 99Nxxxxx "

I have no imagination. In the 1970's I learned that all significant
numbering systems eventually break. I've seen little since then to
change that opinion.

> Is the 4Nxx series of optos JEDEC registered ??

Yes.

It seems to go out of whack with the 6N139 optical device. I count 6
active leads, which should make it a 5Nxxx part number.
Hmmm... maybe you're right?
<http://i2c2p.twibright.com/datasheet/6n139.pdf>
The data sheet does NOT list JEDEC under "Agency Approvals" but Google
found some other data sheets that claim JEDEC approval. Some
questions are best not asked.

Gone howling...

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 30 GB Video IPod redux
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a8cdcbc5c8be1933?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 6:23 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"


"Meat Plow" <mhywatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2011.02.18.17.28.35@lmao.lol.lol...
> Ok the display is backlit with 4 LEDs at the bottom. Behind the LCD
> there is a light diffuser/spreader whatever you want to call it. It's a
> static component just there to spread the light from the light source
> evenly behind the LCD. Obviously this was damaged somehow, probably
> dropped although the former owner would not admit it and the IPod has no
> apparent damage to the case. Behind the light "spreader" there is a
> reflective piece of something. It's not totally opaque because I can
> shine a strong light through it and see the damage on the LCD side with
> the display unplugged. So this is a simple matter of replacing the
> display This particular model has five latches on each side, two on the
> bottom and one on the top.
>
>
>
> --
> Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

Presumably, it came apart without issue ? What did you use in the end, as
your 'entry tool' ?

Arfa


==============================================================================
TOPIC: Arcam amp ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7cc228c388c21ebf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 18 2011 6:47 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"


"Tim Schwartz" <tim@bristolnj.com> wrote in message
news:4D5E6F6B.4000104@bristolnj.com...
> On 2/18/2011 7:32 AM, N_Cook wrote:
>> Arfa Daily<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>> news:L9k7p.21313$Ga7.4781@newsfe16.ams2...
>>>
>>>
>>> "N_Cook"<diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:ijjhae$8fn$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> Arfa Daily<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:uzc6p.13691$Ga7.9010@newsfe16.ams2...
>>>>> Anyone by any chance got schematics for an Arcam Alpha 10 amplifier ?
>>>>>
>>>>> TIA
>>>>>
>>>>> Arfa
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not motorized function sw prob I hope.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, it's not. But why do you ask, I wonder ? I did one of those on an
>> Alpha
>>> 9 just yesterday. It was no particular problem, as has been the case
>>> with
>> a
>>> few I've done in the past.
>>>
>>> Arfa
>>>
>>
>> Too much back-torque with all those multiway wafers -> stripped plastic
>> gearbox cogs -> indexing/alignment problems
>>
>>
> Funny,
>
> I've done DOZENS of those Alps switches. They must be taken apart and
> cleaned, as spraying them does not seem to last, but I've never had a
> stripped gear drive.
>
> Regards,
> Tim Schwartz
> Bristol Electronics
>
> P.S. These switches were used in the Arcam Delta 290, Xeta 1 and Alpha 9
> integrated amps, along with the Creek 5350 and some Yamaha products. I'd
> guess along with many others I don't know about.

Yes, that's exactly what I did. You remove the switch from the board, and
unbend the three tags on the front. that allows you to withdraw the shaft
from the wafers. There are index marks on the wafer rotors, and the shaft is
flattened on two sides, so you can't get the indexing wrong, if you pay
attention in the first place. The only one that you have to watch a bit, is
the front-most wafer that controls the motor stop, because that one is
driven differently via two tabs. The wafers themselves are easily 'sprung'
from the frames, and the rotors easily unclip from the bodies - like a VCR
mode switch. I have some very very fine wet and dry paper - something like
1000 grade - and I use a tiny piece held in needle point tweezers to burnish
the contact pads and central ring back to bright metal. I clean the rotating
contacts with a pencil rubber, and re-tension them. Finally, I add in a drop
of high quality switch cleaner / lubricant, before clipping the rotor back
in. The individual wafers can then be clipped back into the frame, and the
index marks used to realign them, before refitting the shaft. They run like
silk after they have been thus refurbished, and are electrically silent. I
have never had any mechanical problems caused as a result of doing this, nor
have I ever had one bounce. I haven't done as many as Tim, but probably
still twenty or more, over the years.

Arfa

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 19 2011 12:43 am
From: "N_Cook"


Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:QaG7p.21495$Ga7.10703@newsfe16.ams2...
>
>
> "Tim Schwartz" <tim@bristolnj.com> wrote in message
> news:4D5E6F6B.4000104@bristolnj.com...
> > On 2/18/2011 7:32 AM, N_Cook wrote:
> >> Arfa Daily<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> >> news:L9k7p.21313$Ga7.4781@newsfe16.ams2...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "N_Cook"<diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> >>> news:ijjhae$8fn$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>>> Arfa Daily<arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> >>>> news:uzc6p.13691$Ga7.9010@newsfe16.ams2...
> >>>>> Anyone by any chance got schematics for an Arcam Alpha 10 amplifier
?

> >
> > P.S. These switches were used in the Arcam Delta 290, Xeta 1 and Alpha
9
> > integrated amps, along with the Creek 5350 and some Yamaha products. I'd
> > guess along with many others I don't know about.
>
> Yes, that's exactly what I did. You remove the switch from the board, and
> unbend the three tags on the front. that allows you to withdraw the shaft
> from the wafers. There are index marks on the wafer rotors, and the shaft
is
> flattened on two sides, so you can't get the indexing wrong, if you pay
> attention in the first place. The only one that you have to watch a bit,
is
> the front-most wafer that controls the motor stop, because that one is
> driven differently via two tabs. The wafers themselves are easily 'sprung'
> from the frames, and the rotors easily unclip from the bodies - like a VCR
> mode switch. I have some very very fine wet and dry paper - something like
> 1000 grade - and I use a tiny piece held in needle point tweezers to
burnish
> the contact pads and central ring back to bright metal. I clean the
rotating
> contacts with a pencil rubber, and re-tension them. Finally, I add in a
drop
> of high quality switch cleaner / lubricant, before clipping the rotor back
> in. The individual wafers can then be clipped back into the frame, and the
> index marks used to realign them, before refitting the shaft. They run
like
> silk after they have been thus refurbished, and are electrically silent. I
> have never had any mechanical problems caused as a result of doing this,
nor
> have I ever had one bounce. I haven't done as many as Tim, but probably
> still twenty or more, over the years.
>
> Arfa
>

While on contact cleaning, not Arcam. This week a problem with an awkward
to replace, odd footprint, relay. Clear plastic outer. Needle heated with
soldering iron to melt, not drill, into the cover over the contact gap and
another on the side. Then .45mm (wire core) diameter TeePee interdental
toothbrush will pass through the needle hole. The miniature "bootle brush"
bristles open out inside the contact gap and a side entry needle forces
against the to-fro and sideways cleaning of the brush. Neat Blob of hotmelt
glue over the holes after


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