sci.electronics.repair - 23 new messages in 10 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Earn 500 Dollars Per Month Without Doing Any Work
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/670b27b1f726a0a1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 12:48 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Eco - windmills ... (bit OT)
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a12dc199597830ae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 5:50 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

I could point out that it's China's problem, not ours. Which happens to be
true.

I find it hard to believe that "radioactivity [is] involved somewhere in the
process" of extracting neodymium -- unless neodymium is commonly mixed with
ores of radioactive material -- which it apparently isn't. According to
Wikipedia...

"Neodymium is not found naturally in metallic form or unaccompanied by other
lanthanides, and it is usually refined for general use. Although classed as
a "rare earth" it is no more rare than cobalt, nickel or copper, and is
widely distributed in the Earth's crust. The bulk of the world's neodymium
is presently [sic -- currently] mined in China."

If it isn't particularly rare, then one might assume other countries will
begin or increase their mining of it, now that China has put export controls
on it.

Wind power has the potential (sorry) for relatively cheap electricity, using
hardware that is easily replaced as it wears out.

A long-term solution to food and environmental problems would require a
"population implosion" -- an across-the-board reduction in population to
1/10 or even 1/20 the current level.

"There's... antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium
And hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium
And nickel, neodymium, neptunium, germanium
And iron, americium, ruthenium, uranium..."

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:ynJ2p.36406$837.20584@newsfe19.ams2...
> A few weeks ago, there was a professor talking on a UK radio show, about
the
> eco-credentials of the windmills that are springing up all over the UK in
an
> effort to satisfy the goals for renewable power, that have been foisted on
> us by Brussels. He enthused like an evangelical preacher about the
brilliant
> efficiency of these machines which, he said, was due in no small part to
the
> use of neodymium magnets in the generators. I understand that high power
> neodymium magnets are also used in the motors for electric eco-cars. Fair
> enough all round. However, in last Sunday's newspaper supplement, I read a
> rather disturbing story about this material. Apparently, almost all 'rare
> earth' metals are mined and processed in China. Since the boom in wind
> turbines and electric cars started, the demand for neodymium has gone sky
> high. The only problem is that extracting it from the ground and other
> metals that it co-exists with, involves the use of very concentrated acids
> which are pumped into the ground, as well as being used in the refinement
> process. There is also radioactivity involved somewhere in the process.
Once
> the neodymium has been extracted and processed, the highly acidic and
> radioactive 'tailings' are dumped in a huge and highly toxic lake that is
> now over 10 feet deep. Local people are getting sick and dying at an
> alarming rate, and birth defects are common. The water supply and crops
are
> being poisoned, and the whole affair is being talked of in terms of an
> "ecological disaster".
>
> So here we have another bit of western eco- think of dubious practicality
in
> terms of the amount of power that can actually be realistically produced
> this way, that's having a seriously negative ecological effect on the
other
> side of the world. But I suppose all the eco-warriors and euro pen-pushers
> that support this 'non-polluting' power generation technology, would
rather
> that we didn't know about the wider implications ...
>
>
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html
>
> Arfa
>

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 8:58 am
From: Jim Yanik

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in
news:iigdoi$uum$1@news.eternal-september.org:

> I've never understood why there is not a prop shaft the length of
> those towers and then any old (heavy) generator at ground/sea level.

Think about it for a while.
Hints;a 160 ft long shaft,torquing in the wind,and needing bearing support.
then there's the mass of the shaft that has to be started and stopped with
shifts in wind velocity. Cost of the shaft,too. I'm sure there's more.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 9:16 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iih083$toq$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> I could point out that it's China's problem, not ours. Which happens to be
> true.
>
> I find it hard to believe that "radioactivity [is] involved somewhere in
> the
> process" of extracting neodymium -- unless neodymium is commonly mixed
> with
> ores of radioactive material -- which it apparently isn't. According to
> Wikipedia...
>
> "Neodymium is not found naturally in metallic form or unaccompanied by
> other
> lanthanides, and it is usually refined for general use. Although classed
> as
> a "rare earth" it is no more rare than cobalt, nickel or copper, and is
> widely distributed in the Earth's crust. The bulk of the world's neodymium
> is presently [sic -- currently] mined in China."
>
> If it isn't particularly rare, then one might assume other countries will
> begin or increase their mining of it, now that China has put export
> controls
> on it.
>
> Wind power has the potential (sorry) for relatively cheap electricity,
> using
> hardware that is easily replaced as it wears out.
>
> A long-term solution to food and environmental problems would require a
> "population implosion" -- an across-the-board reduction in population to
> 1/10 or even 1/20 the current level.
>
> "There's... antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium
> And hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium
> And nickel, neodymium, neptunium, germanium
> And iron, americium, ruthenium, uranium..."
>

Well, I'm not sure that wind power actually has anything like the potential
to be worth all of its downsides, if you look at the figures for what it's
actually doing in terms of filling any 'holes' in the grid. The latest
figures are for what was actually produced, against what could have
potentially been produced at full capacity, during the last cold spell that
we had here a few weeks ago, and it doesn't make very inspiring reading.
There are two types of weather systems that we get here in the winter in the
UK. The first is, as my dear old high school geography teacher used to tell
us, "All the Ws", which is Warm Wet Westerly Winds in Winter. This is
typified by rather dull overcast weather rolling in on fronts from low
pressure systems that form out in the Atlantic. They tend to be fairly quick
moving, and have warm and moist light winds. Not too bad for wind
generation, but by the same token, because of the temperatures, not really
demanding in terms of energy requirements on the generating authorities,
because there is not a great need for people to heat their homes too much.
Right now, for instance, it's the depths of the UK winter, its 5 o'clock in
the afternoon and well past sunset, and its 50 deg F outside.

The other type of weather that we get involves huge blocking high pressure
systems that sit over northern Europe, and prevent any weather at all from
coming in. These systems are typified by clear blue skies and totally clear
nights. Daytime temperatures are lucky to make it to 30 deg F, and night
time temperatures plummet into the 20s or lower, with sharp frosts. Winds
are light to zero. This is very bad for wind generation. The situation can
last for several weeks at a time, as these high pressure weather systems are
huge and static. This is exactly what we had here a couple of weeks back,
and the energy demand for heating was huge compared to normal. Wind power
contributed almost nothing to the demand, because there simply wasn't any
wind. Realistically, what use is a generating technology which produces
power when you don't need it, and next to none when you do ...

You also need to understand the commercial aspects of wind power here. I
don't know what the situation is west-pond, but here, there are all manner
of financial incentives for organisations to set up and run these windfarms
so, far from the belief by the eco-warriors that they are making a
difference by getting take-up on this technology, it's actually a cynical
exercise in taking piles of money from the government, by companies that
don't actually give a toss whether it's worth it in the long run, or not.

Arfa

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 10:36 am
From: John Robertson

Arfa Daily wrote:
>
>
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:iih083$toq$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> I could point out that it's China's problem, not ours. Which happens
>> to be
>> true.
>>
>> I find it hard to believe that "radioactivity [is] involved somewhere
>> in the
>> process" of extracting neodymium -- unless neodymium is commonly mixed
>> with
>> ores of radioactive material -- which it apparently isn't. According to
>> Wikipedia...
>>
>> "Neodymium is not found naturally in metallic form or unaccompanied by
>> other
>> lanthanides, and it is usually refined for general use. Although
>> classed as
>> a "rare earth" it is no more rare than cobalt, nickel or copper, and is
>> widely distributed in the Earth's crust. The bulk of the world's
>> neodymium
>> is presently [sic -- currently] mined in China."
>>
>> If it isn't particularly rare, then one might assume other countries will
>> begin or increase their mining of it, now that China has put export
>> controls
>> on it.
>>
>> Wind power has the potential (sorry) for relatively cheap electricity,
>> using
>> hardware that is easily replaced as it wears out.
>>
>> A long-term solution to food and environmental problems would require a
>> "population implosion" -- an across-the-board reduction in population to
>> 1/10 or even 1/20 the current level.
>>
>> "There's... antimony, arsenic, aluminum, selenium
>> And hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen and rhenium
>> And nickel, neodymium, neptunium, germanium
>> And iron, americium, ruthenium, uranium..."
>>
>
>
> Well, I'm not sure that wind power actually has anything like the
> potential to be worth all of its downsides, if you look at the figures
> for what it's actually doing in terms of filling any 'holes' in the
> grid. The latest figures are for what was actually produced, against
> what could have potentially been produced at full capacity, during the
> last cold spell that we had here a few weeks ago, and it doesn't make
> very inspiring reading. There are two types of weather systems that we
> get here in the winter in the UK. The first is, as my dear old high
> school geography teacher used to tell us, "All the Ws", which is Warm
> Wet Westerly Winds in Winter. This is typified by rather dull overcast
> weather rolling in on fronts from low pressure systems that form out in
> the Atlantic. They tend to be fairly quick moving, and have warm and
> moist light winds. Not too bad for wind generation, but by the same
> token, because of the temperatures, not really demanding in terms of
> energy requirements on the generating authorities, because there is not
> a great need for people to heat their homes too much. Right now, for
> instance, it's the depths of the UK winter, its 5 o'clock in the
> afternoon and well past sunset, and its 50 deg F outside.
>
> The other type of weather that we get involves huge blocking high
> pressure systems that sit over northern Europe, and prevent any weather
> at all from coming in. These systems are typified by clear blue skies
> and totally clear nights. Daytime temperatures are lucky to make it to
> 30 deg F, and night time temperatures plummet into the 20s or lower,
> with sharp frosts. Winds are light to zero. This is very bad for wind
> generation. The situation can last for several weeks at a time, as these
> high pressure weather systems are huge and static. This is exactly what
> we had here a couple of weeks back, and the energy demand for heating
> was huge compared to normal. Wind power contributed almost nothing to
> the demand, because there simply wasn't any wind. Realistically, what
> use is a generating technology which produces power when you don't need
> it, and next to none when you do ...
>
> You also need to understand the commercial aspects of wind power here. I
> don't know what the situation is west-pond, but here, there are all
> manner of financial incentives for organisations to set up and run these
> windfarms so, far from the belief by the eco-warriors that they are
> making a difference by getting take-up on this technology, it's actually
> a cynical exercise in taking piles of money from the government, by
> companies that don't actually give a toss whether it's worth it in the
> long run, or not.
>
> Arfa

Similar reports from Texas - supposedly the largest wind power state.
Rolling blackouts during cold snaps due to lack of wind generation...

in 2008:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2008/02/28/us-utilities-ercot-wind-idUSN2749522920080228

in 2011:

http://ktwop.wordpress.com/2011/02/04/wind-power-capacity-compromised-in-texas-rolling-blackouts-as-mexico-supplies-some-back-up/

So the choice the warmests offer is freeze in the dark.

That is assuming that CO2 actually is the cause of the latest warming
since the 1700s (really - it started back then with the end of the mini
ice age) and that humans are contributing to this CO2 increase by more
than a couple of percent.

Or be warm and well lit by fossil fuels/nuclear/Hydro...

If increasing CO2 actually is a problem - a premise of which I am
skeptical - I know what my choice would be: outlaw air conditioning and
keep folks warm in the winter.

John :-#(#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 10:45 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> That is assuming that CO2 actually is the cause of the latest
> warming since the 1700s (really - it started back then with the
> end of the mini ice age) and that humans are contributing to
> this CO2 increase by more than a couple of percent.

This is one of the confusing points. The "Little Ice Age" (which was not
universal) ended roughly at the time industrialization began. Cause and
effect are not clear. However...

I'll keep saying this until someone listens. It doesn't matter whether or
not the rise in CO2 is the cause of warming. We need sources of renewable
energy that are either carbon-neutral, or emit zero carbon. If we focus on
this, the warming problem will probably take care of itself.

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 11:55 am
From: "Trevor Wilson"

Michael Kennedy wrote:
> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:ynJ2p.36406$837.20584@newsfe19.ams2...
>> A few weeks ago, there was a professor talking on a UK radio show,
>> about the eco-credentials of the windmills that are springing up all
>> over the UK in an effort to satisfy the goals for renewable power,
>> that have been foisted on us by Brussels. He enthused like an
>> evangelical preacher about the brilliant efficiency of these
>> machines which, he said, was due in no small part to the use of
>> neodymium magnets in the generators. I understand that high power
>> neodymium magnets are also used in the motors for electric eco-cars.
>> Fair enough all round. However, in last Sunday's newspaper
>> supplement, I read a rather disturbing story about this material.
>> Apparently, almost all 'rare earth' metals are mined and processed
>> in China. Since the boom in wind turbines and electric cars started,
>> the demand for neodymium has gone sky high. The only problem is that
>> extracting it from the ground and other metals that it co-exists
>> with, involves the use of very concentrated acids which are pumped
>> into the ground, as well as being used in the refinement process.
>> There is also radioactivity involved somewhere in the process. Once
>> the neodymium has been extracted and processed, the highly acidic
>> and radioactive 'tailings' are dumped in a huge and highly toxic
>> lake that is now over 10 feet deep. Local people are getting sick
>> and dying at an alarming rate, and birth defects are common. The
>> water supply and crops are being poisoned, and the whole affair is
>> being talked of in terms of an "ecological disaster". So here we have
>> another bit of western eco- think of dubious
>> practicality in terms of the amount of power that can actually be
>> realistically produced this way, that's having a seriously negative
>> ecological effect on the other side of the world. But I suppose all
>> the eco-warriors and euro pen-pushers that support this
>> 'non-polluting' power generation technology, would rather that we
>> didn't know about the wider implications ...
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350811/In-China-true-cost-Britains-clean-green-wind-power-experiment-Pollution-disastrous-scale.html
>>
>> Arfa
>
> Whats that old saying.. Theres no such thing as a free lunch..I think
> this applies to enery too.. Theres no such thing as (poloution) free
> energy.
> I don't know what the answer is to the energy problmes we face, but
> wind power isn't the answer. Solar isn't so promising either.

**That depends on where you live. Here in Australia, an area the size of
Victoria (3% of our land area) could be dedicated to PV cells. This would be
anough (at present consumption and cell efficiency) to supply the entire
planet's electricity requirements. There are areas of Australia that receive
a considerable amount of yearly Sunshine. Of course, this is a bit of a
distraction, as there are other, far superior methods of achieving base-load
power. Again, here in Australia, we have access to enough geo-thermal energy
to satisfy the entire planet's demands (for base-load power) for the next
several thousand years. Sadly, our coal reserves are so massive and so cheap
to obtain, that none of the above is of any consequence.

Back to Arfa's point: China has recently announced that it is dramatically
curtailing the export of rare Earth materials. It is (wisely) retaining the
stuff for internal use only.

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 5:42 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iihhhk$47i$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> That is assuming that CO2 actually is the cause of the latest
>> warming since the 1700s (really - it started back then with the
>> end of the mini ice age) and that humans are contributing to
>> this CO2 increase by more than a couple of percent.
>
> This is one of the confusing points. The "Little Ice Age" (which was not
> universal) ended roughly at the time industrialization began. Cause and
> effect are not clear. However...
>
> I'll keep saying this until someone listens. It doesn't matter whether or
> not the rise in CO2 is the cause of warming. We need sources of renewable
> energy that are either carbon-neutral, or emit zero carbon. If we focus on
> this, the warming problem will probably take care of itself.
>

That point is not really in dispute for most serious-thinking people. The
problem is that this whole thing has taken on an almost religious life of
its own, and anyone not swept along with it all, is denounced as a
'denier' - the equivalent of a heretic in real terms. There is a well
respected and long-running TV programme here called "Horizon". It examines
all manner of scientific issues in readily understandable terms, and is
highly watchable from an entertainment point of view, even though it is a
properly 'serious' show. A couple of weeks back, the incoming president of
the Royal Society (the oldest and most revered seat of science in the world)
presented the programme, and it was entitled 'Science Under Threat' I think.
He was basically looking into why the tide of public opinion seems to have
started to turn against the scientists, particularly on the global warming
issue, and more and more people feel that they are being lied to. This anti
GW movement gained a lot of momentum with the very bad publicity that
surrounded the 'Climategate' affair, where the head honcho at the the
University of East Anglia Climate Research Faculty, which advises
governments world wide on climate change, was found, through leaked emails,
to have been apparently 'massaging' and even suppressing data, to fit the
wanted conclusions about man being responsible for GW. The conclusion that
the guy came to was that scientists were being too insular, and not talking
to the general public, and explaining themselves enough. This, he decided,
was making the public unjustly suspicious of everything that was being said,
fuelled by revelations like Climategate.

But I think that he was missing the point completely. He failed to
understand that it has become a religion, with its own mantras, and its high
priests are in fact very vocal at every opportunity, appearing on TV, radio
and in newspapers just about every day. They have this attitude of 'we're
right so you must be wrong', which is forced down the public's throat
continuously, through the media, and all this legislation which is depriving
us of 'comfort' items like incandescent light bulbs, and stopping our waste
bins from being emptied every week, and stopping the local tips from taking
any rubbish that they don't consider to be recyclable and so on. I think
what we are actually starting to see is a backlash from the public at having
their lives interfered with continuously, and they see this as a result of
the preachings of the scientists.

Alternative power is fine, as long as it is worth the effort and energy
budget used to produce it. The figures for wind power - at least in this
part of the world - don't bear out the claims which are made for it. Wind
turbines take a lot of manufacturing, shipping, installing and maintenance,
all of which uses very substantial amounts of energy, and the returns from
them are very small at best. Make no mistake, the erection of windfarms is
about corporate business, as is an awful lot of green technology. Problem is
that it's gone so far now, that even if it was all proved to be wrong
tomorrow, we wouldn't be able to stop without causing a world-wide financial
meltdown in the multi-billion dollar industry sector that has grown up
around this dubious 'science' ...

Arfa

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 7:27 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Fri, 4 Feb 2011 10:45:42 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

>It doesn't matter whether or
>not the rise in CO2 is the cause of warming.

Sure it does. No problem can be solved without first finding at least
one culprit to blame. Once the causes/culprits/conspirators/etc are
identified, we can then move forward towards a solution.
Unfortunately, most of the energy "solutions" offered are variations
on either austerity programs, genocide, redistribution of wealth, or
indirect self-enrichment. All have some unintended consequences and
inefficiencies, such as original comments on neodymium mining and
productions. Other solutions seem to be from the same groups that
profit from the energy shortages, which suggests a hidden agenda. With
wind power, there's also the noise, the aesthetics, the copper
consumption, interference to radio from reflections, hazards to air
navigation, migratory bird kills, and the ocassional out of control
turbine.
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3FZtmlHwcA>
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOfHxINzGeo&feature=related>
(etc.... note the "suggested" list on the right for more disasters).

Nobody has an easy answer to the energy problem that will scale well
and satisfy everyone's requirements. That means that the status quo
will remain until the day we run out of oil.

We've also been here before. During the 17th century, England had an
energy crisis of sorts when it ran out of wood, which was needed for
ship construction and heating. That's when the 14th century ban on
coal burning was magically lifted and England switched to coal.
<http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/offbeat-news/environmentalism-in-1306/725>
I suspect something similar will happen with nuclear power. When the
demand appears, the "problems" with nuclear will magically disappear.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 7:39 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 10:58:54 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
wrote:

>"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in
>news:iigdoi$uum$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>> I've never understood why there is not a prop shaft the length of
>> those towers and then any old (heavy) generator at ground/sea level.

>Think about it for a while.
>Hints;a 160 ft long shaft,torquing in the wind,and needing bearing support.
>then there's the mass of the shaft that has to be started and stopped with
>shifts in wind velocity. Cost of the shaft,too. I'm sure there's more.

Fast fix... no tower:
<http://www.interactivearchitecture.org/flying-wind-turbines.html>
(Sorry, I couldn't resist).

Going from a horizontal turbine to a vertical generator is a gearing
problem. Vertical turbines are possible. A Slavonius rotor or
Darrieus turbine might qualify as a vertical prop (turbine) shaft, but
nobody has built one 300ft high.
<http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=savonius+wind+turbine>
<http://www.google.com/images?hl=et&q=darrieus+turbine>

This page gives a good comparison of the common types of wind
turbines:
<http://www.thegreentechnologyblog.com/2009/technology-solutions-for-wind-power-generated-electricity/>
Note the graph labeled "Wind Turbine Peak Efficiency" which
underscores the basic problem with vertical rotors. They're not very
efficient when compared to air screws (propellers).

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 8:56 pm
From: Jim Yanik

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in
news:zW13p.71206$s96.62705@newsfe05.ams2:

>
>
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:iihhhk$47i$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> That is assuming that CO2 actually is the cause of the latest
>>> warming since the 1700s (really - it started back then with the
>>> end of the mini ice age) and that humans are contributing to
>>> this CO2 increase by more than a couple of percent.
>>
>> This is one of the confusing points. The "Little Ice Age" (which was
>> not universal) ended roughly at the time industrialization began.
>> Cause and effect are not clear. However...
>>
>> I'll keep saying this until someone listens. It doesn't matter
>> whether or not the rise in CO2 is the cause of warming. We need
>> sources of renewable energy that are either carbon-neutral, or emit
>> zero carbon. If we focus on this, the warming problem will probably
>> take care of itself.
>>
>
> That point is not really in dispute for most serious-thinking people.
> The problem is that this whole thing has taken on an almost religious
> life of its own, and anyone not swept along with it all, is denounced
> as a 'denier' - the equivalent of a heretic in real terms. There is a
> well respected and long-running TV programme here called "Horizon". It
> examines all manner of scientific issues in readily understandable
> terms, and is highly watchable from an entertainment point of view,
> even though it is a properly 'serious' show. A couple of weeks back,
> the incoming president of the Royal Society (the oldest and most
> revered seat of science in the world) presented the programme, and it
> was entitled 'Science Under Threat' I think. He was basically looking
> into why the tide of public opinion seems to have started to turn
> against the scientists, particularly on the global warming issue, and
> more and more people feel that they are being lied to. This anti GW
> movement gained a lot of momentum with the very bad publicity that
> surrounded the 'Climategate' affair, where the head honcho at the the
> University of East Anglia Climate Research Faculty, which advises
> governments world wide on climate change, was found, through leaked
> emails, to have been apparently 'massaging' and even suppressing data,
> to fit the wanted conclusions about man being responsible for GW. The
> conclusion that the guy came to was that scientists were being too
> insular, and not talking to the general public, and explaining
> themselves enough. This, he decided, was making the public unjustly
> suspicious of everything that was being said, fuelled by revelations
> like Climategate.
>
> But I think that he was missing the point completely. He failed to
> understand that it has become a religion, with its own mantras, and
> its high priests are in fact very vocal at every opportunity,
> appearing on TV, radio and in newspapers just about every day. They
> have this attitude of 'we're right so you must be wrong', which is
> forced down the public's throat continuously, through the media, and
> all this legislation which is depriving us of 'comfort' items like
> incandescent light bulbs, and stopping our waste bins from being
> emptied every week, and stopping the local tips from taking any
> rubbish that they don't consider to be recyclable and so on. I think
> what we are actually starting to see is a backlash from the public at
> having their lives interfered with continuously, and they see this as
> a result of the preachings of the scientists.
>
> Alternative power is fine, as long as it is worth the effort and
> energy budget used to produce it. The figures for wind power - at
> least in this part of the world - don't bear out the claims which are
> made for it. Wind turbines take a lot of manufacturing, shipping,
> installing and maintenance, all of which uses very substantial amounts
> of energy, and the returns from them are very small at best. Make no
> mistake, the erection of windfarms is about corporate business, as is
> an awful lot of green technology. Problem is that it's gone so far
> now, that even if it was all proved to be wrong tomorrow, we wouldn't
> be able to stop without causing a world-wide financial meltdown in the
> multi-billion dollar industry sector that has grown up around this
> dubious 'science' ...
>
> Arfa
>
>

I'm not buying the idea that humans can have an effect on global climate.
(aside from a major nuclear war...)

not compared to solar output changes,volcanoes,major forest fires,and other
natural causes.
Also,I doubt that "developing nations" are going to change their practices.

then I REALLY get creeped out when people start talking about lowering the
world population. For that,They Go First;they can set us an example,show us
how truly caring they are about it.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 9:02 pm
From: Jim Yanik

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:90hpk6d8lt33uqtmn5iknpntjftg687khj@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 10:58:54 -0600, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov>
> wrote:
>
>>"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in
>>news:iigdoi$uum$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>> I've never understood why there is not a prop shaft the length of
>>> those towers and then any old (heavy) generator at ground/sea level.
>
>>Think about it for a while.
>>Hints;a 160 ft long shaft,torquing in the wind,and needing bearing
>>support. then there's the mass of the shaft that has to be started and
>>stopped with shifts in wind velocity. Cost of the shaft,too. I'm sure
>>there's more.
>
> Fast fix... no tower:
><http://www.interactivearchitecture.org/flying-wind-turbines.html>
> (Sorry, I couldn't resist).
>
> Going from a horizontal turbine to a vertical generator is a gearing
> problem. Vertical turbines are possible. A Slavonius rotor or
> Darrieus turbine might qualify as a vertical prop (turbine) shaft, but
> nobody has built one 300ft high.
><http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=savonius+wind+turbine>
><http://www.google.com/images?hl=et&q=darrieus+turbine>
>
> This page gives a good comparison of the common types of wind
> turbines:
><http://www.thegreentechnologyblog.com/2009/technology-solutions-for-win
>d-power-generated-electricity/>
> Note the graph labeled "Wind Turbine Peak Efficiency" which
> underscores the basic problem with vertical rotors. They're not very
> efficient when compared to air screws (propellers).
>
>

wind power itself is not very efficient.....and certainly not reliable.
best left for special applications,just like solar.

for electric power,build nuclear plants. clean,reliable,constant output,and
it can be done right now.
of course,electric isn't going to substitute for petroleum,not for a long
time.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Datron 4000 error code 2
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/421ba8686a4cd870?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 6:08 am
From: JW

On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 08:45:36 -0500 JW <none@dev.null> wrote in Message id:
<g4clk6tqqpo5m42pjnhu10gkeethkjop4n@4ax.com>:

>Anyone have a copy of a Datron 4000 calibrator manual? Looking for the
>description of "error code 2".
>
>Thanks.

Appears to be "Fail 2 = Overvoltage, can be caused by connection of an
external voltage exceeding 130V across the 4000 terminals."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: motherboard pwr_on pins resistance?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/65d60dc1b24d5107?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 6:57 am
From: baron

John Keiser Inscribed thus:

> I modified the "crush" method: I snipped a test cap in half with wire
> snips. The bottom half then pulls right off the internal connectors,
> leaving two nice pegs for a tack solder.
> Access could be an issue for this method, but very easy if there is
> room.

Yes, that works ! If a little untidy.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Laptop not charging.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3f52116e8141f1a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 7:25 am
From: baron

T i m Inscribed thus:

> On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 20:51:06 +0000, Baron
> <baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:
>
>>> A replacement primary battery came today for daughters Latitude D520
>>> and when I fitted it the BIOS Battery Info screen when from 'not
>>> installed' (empty bay or with the old battery fitted) to
>>> 'Discharging' with the new battery so that was something. ;-)
>>
>>Sounds like the protection circuits in the battery killed the feed to
>>charge it. If you decide to investigate you will probably find that
>>one or more cells has died.
>
> OK, now we are back online with a new battery I may well have a closer
> look. I understand it wasn't lasting very long before it failed but
> the presence of the modular battery masked it a bit.
>>
> <snip>
>>> I put it back in it's case,
>>> taped it up and powered it up, LED on and 19V on the output. ;-)
>>
>>Sounds good ! I bet you've done this before... ;-)
>
> Indeed, with all sorts of stuff (I feel if it's already 'broken' you
> have little to lose). I have always got more fun out of fixing
> something then using it than just going out and buying it / a new one.
> <Mutter> years ago I designed, built and ran my own mobile disco (for
> my own pleasure really <g>). 1.5kw 3 way stereo PA, console with
> mixer, 8 channel light sequencer (before you could easily buy such
> things), strobe and all the speaker cabs etc. I drove it about in a
> Morris Minor van that I bought for £25 and put another gearbox in at
> the car park where I bought it before I could drive it home. ;-) [1]

You sound a bit like someone else I used to know.
He did something similar... with a van.

>>> Plugged it into the D520, "AC Adaptor = 90W' and the primary battery
>>> status changed to 'Charging'. ;-)
>>>
>>> So the D520 looked like it had two faults, a dead primary battery
>>> and faulty ID function (I'll check that one out tomorrow). It also
>>> seems the modular bay battery isn't so fussy about the PSU and has
>>> been charging and working ok.
>>
>>Yea, a result !
>
> A result indeed <g>. She likes the D520 and was happy to carry on with
> it even as it was. We /could/ get her something else but this laptop
> does have a nice substantial feel to it so we are all happy it's fully
> working again. [2] The replacement battery ran for 3 hours this
> morning and the modular battery is at least 80% good.
>>
>>> We then tried the same 'test' PSU in daughters b/fs not-charging
>>> Inspiron 1545 and it also now detects the charger but didn't seem to
>>> want to start to charge. He says the battery had about 2hrs life
>>> before it stopped charging. A mate has a 1545 so we will try his
>>> battery in this one before doing anything further.
>>>
>>> I'll provide another update as / when we know anything on that.
>>
>>Thanks for this update ! Its nice to know.
>
> My pleasure. So, we took his laptop to my mates PC show and were lucky
> to have the chance to try all different combinations of laptop,
> battery and charger.
>
> The first smile was to see a known good battery and charger in his
> lappy charging AOk (so all the charging circuitry was ok <phew>). The
> second was later back at home when my multifunction charger arrived
> from eBay and was 'seen' by the Dells as a 90W adaptor. The cherry on
> the cake was when he left the Targus connected and after about an hour
> mentioned that his presumed 'dead' battery was now showing 14% charge.
> Left it slowly rose to 100% and he's currently running it down and has
> run about 40 mins with 20 left.
>>
> I' then opened the original chargers for both machines and both had
> broken data wires at the plug end. I have 3 on their way at a fiver
> each and if they work they will be cheap genuine chargers. ;-)

I presume you mean the chargers and not the plugs for them.
I've yet to find a source for the 3 wire plug.

> I found this very interesting on Youtube (very well put together as
> well):
>
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5r8rl79

I agree ! very interesting. It answers a couple of questions.

> We picked up a clone Dell charger that seems to advertise it's a 150W
> device (it isn't, it's a 90W). Maybe someone found a batch of unwanted
> chips or thought that responding with '150W' would make more kit
> happy?

Sounds like someone has doctored the unit.

> Cheers, T i m
>
> [1] My most recent challenge was a 13 month old Zanussi washing
> machine I picked up on Freecycle. It had been written off by the
> insurance Co with failed bearings as not being economical to repair
> because the drum was in a /sealed/ plastic tub. I was also told by all
> the whitegoods gurus that it was a lost cause but it's still running
> very well some 18 months later. <weg>

Those washing machines with the plastic tubs are quite straight forward
to replace the bearings in. In fact I may still have a repair kit or
two kicking around.

> [2] The screen feels a bit floppy on the hinges so I'd like to check
> that out and I'm going to fit a new power socket before she takes it
> back up to Scotland (400 miles away).

The hinges are a weak point. Check the screws and make sure that they
are tight. If I recall there are three screws in each hinge bracket.

Take Care. The wind is wicked at the moment.
--
Best Regards:
Baron.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 7:54 am
From: T i m

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 15:25:01 +0000, baron
<baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

>> I' then opened the original chargers for both machines and both had
>> broken data wires at the plug end. I have 3 on their way at a fiver
>> each and if they work they will be cheap genuine chargers. ;-)
>
>I presume you mean the chargers and not the plugs for them.

Sorry no, the output lead, strain relief bush and Dell 3 way tubular
plug.

>I've yet to find a source for the 3 wire plug.

That's what I first looked for but took the lead assay as it probably
wouldn't have been much in it price wise. Ordered yesterday, arrived
today and I'm going in .... ;-)
>
>> I found this very interesting on Youtube (very well put together as
>> well):
>>
>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5r8rl79
>
>I agree ! very interesting. It answers a couple of questions.

I guess if it's easy to implement (one wire and two legs at the
charger end) and cheap then I can see why they might.
>
>> We picked up a clone Dell charger that seems to advertise it's a 150W
>> device (it isn't, it's a 90W). Maybe someone found a batch of unwanted
>> chips or thought that responding with '150W' would make more kit
>> happy?
>
>Sounds like someone has doctored the unit.

It's a clone so who knows. [1]
>

>> [1] My most recent challenge was a 13 month old Zanussi washing
>> machine I picked up on Freecycle. It had been written off by the
>> insurance Co with failed bearings as not being economical to repair
>> because the drum was in a /sealed/ plastic tub. I was also told by all
>> the whitegoods gurus that it was a lost cause but it's still running
>> very well some 18 months later. <weg>
>
>Those washing machines with the plastic tubs are quite straight forward
>to replace the bearings in. In fact I may still have a repair kit or
>two kicking around.

Erm, plastic tubs yes, sealed (as in welded into one piece in the
factory) I believe less so. /IF/ you could get the drum out through
the mouth of the tub you would be ok but on these you can't.
Ironically the tub halves (front and back) were actually designed to
be bolted together with a gasket / seal but some bright spark
suggested they could save 10 screws, a seal and assembly time to they
were welded together after that. The typical 'repair' would be two new
tub halves, the screws, seal (the bearings you were going to replace
anyway) and I understand, different suspension mountings, hence the
write-off (at 13 months).
>
>> [2] The screen feels a bit floppy on the hinges so I'd like to check
>> that out and I'm going to fit a new power socket before she takes it
>> back up to Scotland (400 miles away).
>
>The hinges are a weak point. Check the screws and make sure that they
>are tight. If I recall there are three screws in each hinge bracket.

Noted.
>
>Take Care. The wind is wicked at the moment.

It is indeed and that seems to have blown daughter and b/f some work
back up in Scotland as they are both tree surgeons. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] Enthused with the progress on these two machines I've picked up a
mates daughters Dell Studio 1535 that had a failed charger a while
back. We bought a replacement charger that I can now prove isn't fully
'Dell compatible' (no chip etc) but they bought a replacement battery
from eBay but that never worked. When you turn it on with the
replacement battery it says:

"Warning: The battery cannot be identified.
This system will be unable to charge this battery"

With the original battery in it says:

"This battery has experienced a permanent failure and needs to be
replaced".

I've since ordered an external charger that should be ok for most of
the Dell batteries so at least I can prove if it's the battery or the
laptop.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 1:14 pm
From: Baron

T i m Inscribed thus:

> Erm, plastic tubs yes, sealed (as in welded into one piece in the
> factory) I believe less so. /IF/ you could get the drum out through
> the mouth of the tub you would be ok but on these you can't.
> Ironically the tub halves (front and back) were actually designed to
> be bolted together with a gasket / seal but some bright spark
> suggested they could save 10 screws, a seal and assembly time to they
> were welded together after that. The typical 'repair' would be two new
> tub halves, the screws, seal (the bearings you were going to replace
> anyway) and I understand, different suspension mountings, hence the
> write-off (at 13 months).

Mmm. The ones I was thinking about have a series of metal spring clips
around the perimeter of the tub. The bearings are essentially clamped
in place between the lip on the inner side and a plate on the other
with the shaft and pulley, its retaining bolt holding the lot together.

>>> [2] The screen feels a bit floppy on the hinges so I'd like to check
>>> that out and I'm going to fit a new power socket before she takes it
>>> back up to Scotland (400 miles away).
>>
>>The hinges are a weak point. Check the screws and make sure that they
>>are tight. If I recall there are three screws in each hinge bracket.
>
> Noted.
>>
>>Take Care. The wind is wicked at the moment.
>
> It is indeed and that seems to have blown daughter and b/f some work
> back up in Scotland as they are both tree surgeons. ;-)
>
> Cheers, T i m

At least something good from the destruction caused by the wind.

> [1] Enthused with the progress on these two machines I've picked up a
> mates daughters Dell Studio 1535 that had a failed charger a while
> back. We bought a replacement charger that I can now prove isn't fully
> 'Dell compatible' (no chip etc) but they bought a replacement battery
> from eBay but that never worked. When you turn it on with the
> replacement battery it says:
>
> "Warning: The battery cannot be identified.
> This system will be unable to charge this battery"
>
> With the original battery in it says:
>
> "This battery has experienced a permanent failure and needs to be
> replaced".
>
> I've since ordered an external charger that should be ok for most of
> the Dell batteries so at least I can prove if it's the battery or the
> laptop.

They put these "one wire" interfaces into the batteries too !

I've have cheap Chinese made ones that wont charge in a Dell !
Which sounds a bit like the one you refer to above.

--
Best Regards:
Baron.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 3:10 pm
From: T i m

On Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:14:24 +0000, Baron
<baron.nospam@linuxmaniac.nospam.net> wrote:

>> Erm, plastic tubs yes, sealed (as in welded into one piece in the
>> factory) I believe less so. /IF/ you could get the drum out through
>> the mouth of the tub you would be ok but on these you can't.

<snip>
>
>Mmm. The ones I was thinking about have a series of metal spring clips
>around the perimeter of the tub. The bearings are essentially clamped
>in place between the lip on the inner side and a plate on the other
>with the shaft and pulley, its retaining bolt holding the lot together.

Ah no. Inner bearing fits up against the drum and into rear bearing
mount from the front. Outer bearing from the outside held in place by
the belt drive wheel and a nylock nut (bearing construction similar to
a car road wheel hub etc).
>

>> It is indeed and that seems to have blown daughter and b/f some work
>> back up in Scotland as they are both tree surgeons. ;-)
>>
>At least something good from the destruction caused by the wind.

Well, yes, I guess. Still not nice to profit from the miseries of
others but there is still some 'good work' that can be done (clearing
side roads / tracks / paths etc). When they were on their way back up
last time the bridge was being washed away at Cockermouth. ;-(
>
<snip>
>>
>> I've since ordered an external charger that should be ok for most of
>> the Dell batteries so at least I can prove if it's the battery or the
>> laptop.
>
>They put these "one wire" interfaces into the batteries too !

No, really? ;-(
>
>I've have cheap Chinese made ones that wont charge in a Dell !
>Which sounds a bit like the one you refer to above.

It does indeed. However, after Googling about it seems there may be
some hope in a BIOS update? It's currently A2 and I think there is an
A5 or 6 to be had. I just need a charged battery in there to do it.
I've ordered an external charger as I'm told the pinout of most of the
Dell batteries are the same (so it will cover a fair range of models
and we have a few between us) in case I can't access another machine
or a charged battery elsewhere.

Might as well do the easy / non-invasive things first. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CMOS Wake On Alarm Question
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c64a2d9790f6fd2a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 9:19 am
From: "John Keiser"

In case anyone has a similar problem, this was answered in a different
thread. Cap on motherboard located near CMOS showing bulge + running very
hot. Likely suspect.

"John Keiser" <john.keiser2@hawaiiantel.net> wrote in message
news:ppSdndIn748pq6bQnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@powerusenet.com...
>I have a Acer Verition M460 [AMI BIOS R01-C3] with WindowsXP SP3.
> I had the CMOS set to wake and boot every morning. Worked fine for
> several years.
> Then intermittent, now not at all.
> In the morning the power light is on and the NIC light is sometimes on.
> Screen has no info and the PC has stopped short of actually booting [so
> Event Viewer has no info]. I simply hold the power button 3 seconds and
> repower up. Always successful.
> Time/date is accurate but I changed the CMOS battery and re-enabled the
> RTC alarm.
> No joy.
> Obviously not a major issue but I am curious, any idea why this is
> happening?
> Thank you.
>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 200 insufficient blue
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/539a9aa244a2d23f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 10:08 am
From: kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com

On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 17:26:17 +0000 (UTC), kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2011 08:49:51 -0000, N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
>><kpgpbhdw@kpgpbhdw.com> wrote in message
>> news:iicrn7$is5$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> I just got an old 22" Mitsubishi Diamond Plus 200 CRT monitor.
>>> The previous owner said that the picture was "greenish".
>>> He didn't say anything else about it.
>>>

edited

>>> Thanks to all of you.
>>>
>>> Graviton.
>>
>>
>> Try swapping red and blue drive lines. Isolates to the final or earlier
>> stages
>
> I'm not a professional, just an experience amateur, so my tools and
> skills are limited. Could you provide more details on this procedure?
>
> Thnx.

Also, could someone point me in the direction of a pdf of the service
manual that I could download? Preferably for free?

Thnx.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: surges slowly destroying
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/97cd7b53147e2809?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 3:17 pm
From: sparky

On Jan 31, 2:53 pm, Fred <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> "Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote innews:8qmb5aFui2U1@mid.individual.net:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "bud--"
>
> >> Surges damage cell phones? I would ignore anything this source says.
>
> > ** Nor would I.
>
> > Just a few days ago I took the opportunity to break open a Nokia cell
> > phone charger - the only thing that MIGHT be damaged by voltage spikes
> > on the AC supply.
>
> > The incoming AC connects first to a 10 ohm fusible resistor, then a 4
> > x 1N4007 diode bridge then a 4.7uf 400V filter electro. Very simple
> > and very robust.
>
> > Any surge on the AC that killed the Nokia would take out all the CFLs
> > and many other things too.
>
> > .... Phil
>
> Yep, that supply will eat any surges caused by loose line connections,
> switching motors on and off, etc......for lunch, convert it to a
> regulated DC output and feed it to the phone as if nothing happened.
>
> I don't buy any wall warts that aren't switchers any more.....even to
> charge the wine cork puller.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Switching wall warts are notorius for extremely high RFI.

You can use them as long as you never want to use an AM radio at the
same time.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: you want reduce your weight more details just click here
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/aa8d6662d093ecc4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 4 2011 10:03 pm
From: Deebika m

http://123maza.com/75/clean279/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: EARN CASH 2000 DOLLARS PER DAY FROM FOREX TRADING
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5fd3c798e05a872f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 5 2011 12:48 am
From: devi vithya

http://usaforextradingonline.blogspot.com

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sci.electronics.repair - 23 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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