sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* Nuisance fastners - winge - 15 messages, 8 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9108d595e22824ac?hl=en
* External Firewire CD Burner - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/96c34c4034e31d45?hl=en
* OT: Pictures - Saint Valentine's Day Hotties - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/97eb4a42889fbde1?hl=en
* Washing machine motor won't start, bad triac ? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/96d2b3fb706b3e62?hl=en
* ROMANTIC SHOW - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/810e38b075f64853?hl=en
* Computer runs faster because it is soldered.. haha.. - 5 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a74e97b5f167a0e6?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nuisance fastners - winge
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9108d595e22824ac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 12:25 am
From: keithr


On 12/02/2011 12:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
>> On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
>>>>>>> (Coles
>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>> Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
>>>>>>> wired up
>>>>>>> (that's another story).
>>>
>>>>>>> The cover to the button panel was held in place by four screws which
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> identical except that two were philips head type, and the other
>>>>>>> two had
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> triangular socket in the head.
>>>
>>>>>>> I have bits to cope with most things I've encountered, but not
>>>>>>> those.
>>>>>>> What's the point? Are they worried about competition for
>>>>>>> repairing these
>>>>>>> $10 fans?
>>>
>>>>>>> Do consumers regularly electrocute themselves by taking fans apart
>>>>>>> without
>>>>>>> knowing what they're doing?
>>>
>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>>>>> They are only a tamperproof head of which there are various and
>>>>>> easily
>>>>>> available.. Wait until you come across a coffin head screw.I
>>>>>> believe the
>>>>>> reason for using them is that some countries prevent the dismantle
>>>>>> of an
>>>>>> appliance without the use of a tool or special tool so this way all
>>>>>> fields
>>>>>> are covered in one assembly. Did you find out how it worked. They are
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> to break. Best way to keep them longer is to keep the Blades clean
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> lubricate the bearings NOT with WD40 or the like.
>>>
>>>>> As I said, it hadn't broken. I was actually trying to figure out which
>>>>> wire was which leading to the induction motor. I had in mind making
>>>>> it run
>>>>> backwards. Aerofoils don't perform as well backwards, but they do
>>>>> perform.
>>>>> However, on further consideration I realised that the fan blades
>>>>> would be
>>>>> aerodynamically stalled if the fan ran backwards, with the result
>>>>> that it
>>>>> would probably not work much at all.
>>>
>>>> If the fan is symetrical - snap off pairs of opposing blades.
>>>
>>> That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.
>>>
>>> What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade assembly
>>> on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
>>> assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
>> rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
>> air intake without the motor in the way ?
>
> The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at night.
> During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even though the
> temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of the house doesn't
> drop that much. The problem is lack of air flow.
>
> A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
> placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still quite a
> way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it might
> be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
> then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the window.
>
> I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
> excessive.
>
> I'm thinking of using box fans instead.
>
> Sylvia.

Sylvia's house where the fans don't blow, they suck.


== 2 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 1:15 am
From: John Robertson


Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:
>>
>> "Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
>>>> On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
>>>>>>>>> (Coles
>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>> Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
>>>>>>>>> wired up
>>>>>>>>> (that's another story).
>>>>>...

Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.

>>>>>
>>>>> That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.

Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem here.

>>>>>
>>>>> What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade assembly
>>>>> on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
>>>>> assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>
>>>> Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
>>>> rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
>>>> air intake without the motor in the way ?
>>>
>>> The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
>>> night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
>>> though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of the
>>> house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
>>> flow.
>>>
>>> A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
>>> placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
>>> still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
>>> effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
>>> flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
>>> would be much closer to the window.
>>
>> Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
>> in the female of the species.

(to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so on...

>
> No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out a
> shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts are
> not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
> electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
> this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.
>
> Sylvia.

You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia? Pity.
Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


== 3 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 1:24 am
From: Sylvia Else


On 12/02/2011 8:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:

> You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?

Nup. Well, not unless you become a professional electrician, which
requires an apprenticeship, AND pay the annual licence fee.

> Pity.
> Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
> electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
> homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
> the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
> home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
> sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
> he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
> inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!
>

Here in Aussieland, you cannot so much as replace a light switch with an
identical model.

You can be on a remote farm, 100s of kilometers from anywhere, and if a
lampholder breaks, you have to call in a sparky.

Sylvia.


== 4 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 1:56 am
From: atec77


On 12/02/2011 7:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:
>>>
>>> "Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>> On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
>>>>>>>>>> (Coles
>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>> Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
>>>>>>>>>> wired up
>>>>>>>>>> (that's another story).
>>>>>> ...
>
> Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.
>
> Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
> allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem here.
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade
>>>>>> assembly
>>>>>> on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
>>>>>> assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>
>>>>> Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
>>>>> rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
>>>>> air intake without the motor in the way ?
>>>>
>>>> The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
>>>> night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
>>>> though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of
>>>> the house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
>>>> flow.
>>>>
>>>> A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
>>>> placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
>>>> still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
>>>> effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
>>>> flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
>>>> would be much closer to the window.
>>>
>>> Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
>>> in the female of the species.
>
> (to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
> species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
> great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so on...
>
>>
>> No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out
>> a shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts
>> are not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
>> electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
>> this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?
Not a chance and with good reason

Pity.
> Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
> electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
> homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
> the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
> home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
> sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
> he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
> inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!

We have a system of indentured trades people , we also have 240ac and
415 ac electrical systems and the average home is fused to 120 amps or
more at the fuse box with individual power sockets to 10 amp@ 240v , you
generally only get once mistake at those levels hence the inability to
do your own work
The same with telecommunications equipment you have to use a trady or
suffer huge fines , thanks mainly to a few home installers doing serious
damage to local exchanges over the years
>
> John :-#)#
>


--
X-No-Archive: Yes

== 5 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 1:54 am
From: Jasen Betts


On 2011-02-12, Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote:

> It's an interesting idea. I'll have to look at what size pots are
> available (and how much they weigh) next time I'm at the hardware store.
>
> Mind you, plywood doesn't come cheap :(

If you want to save money go second-hand. eg: the powdercoated
zinc-alume treated sheet steel front off a dead washing machine
can probably had for a few bucks (if not less) from a scrap-metal
place , recycle market, or appliance repairer.

A demolition yard will probably have used flooring ply "cheap".
19mm (typical flooring thickness) is probably overkill strength-wise
but should fit the winbdow track ok.

Another thing you can do is ask in the wood part of the hardware shop for a
coversheet. Coversheets are the factory soiled sheets of ply (or mdf etc)
that are used to protect the top and bottom sheets in the stack during
shipping. 2.4x1.2m so youll need be prepared to transport something
that big. they will usually be significantly cheaper as they can't be used
for the normal purpose of the product.


--
⚂⚃ 100% natural

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---


== 6 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 3:41 am
From: kreed


On Feb 12, 7:15 pm, John Robertson <s...@flippers.com> wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote:
> > On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:
>
> >> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid>  wrote in message
> >>news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
> >>> On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
> >>>> On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid>   wrote:
> >>>>> On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:
>
> >>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid>     wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
> >>>>>>> On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
> >>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid>      wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
> >>>>>>>>> I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
> >>>>>>>>> (Coles
> >>>>>>>>> Home
> >>>>>>>>> Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
> >>>>>>>>> wired up
> >>>>>>>>> (that's another story).
> >>>>>...
>
> Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.
>
>
>
> >>>>> That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.
>
> Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
> allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem here.
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>>> What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade assembly
> >>>>> on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
> >>>>> assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.
>
> >>>>> Sylvia.
>
> >>>> Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
> >>>> rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
> >>>> air intake without the motor in the way ?
>
> >>> The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
> >>> night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
> >>> though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of the
> >>> house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
> >>> flow.
>
> >>> A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
> >>> placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
> >>> still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
> >>> effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
> >>> flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
> >>> would be much closer to the window.
>
> >> Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
> >> in the female of the species.
>
> (to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
> species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
> great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so on...
>

We could also mention Anna Bligh, Christina Kennealy, Julia Gillard if
you want
the opposite of that.

>
>
> > No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out a
> > shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts are
> > not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
> > electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
> > this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.
>
> > Sylvia.
>
> You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia? Pity.
> Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
> electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
> homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
> the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
> home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
> sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
> he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
> inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!
>
> John :-#)#
>

Not here, it is a closed (union) shop - with "jobs for the boys"
This has been going on for the past 40 odd years (in QLD)
that I am aware of, and probably longer.

Having said that, electrical fittings are readily available for sale
to the public through
pretty much all hardware stores, as well as a more limited range in
many supermarkets (plugs, power sockets etc)

I know of one totally unlicensed electrician locally who openly does
work for people and commercial premises (for cash in hand). Has the
attitude "have no assets that can be taken, so cant be sued".

There is 240/415v involved whereas Canada is 120/240 IIRC.


> --
>     (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
>   John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
>   Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>                      www.flippers.com
>        "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

== 7 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 3:49 am
From: F Murtz


atec77 wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 7:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:
>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>> news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
>>>>>> On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>> On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>> I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
>>>>>>>>>>> (Coles
>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>> Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
>>>>>>>>>>> wired up
>>>>>>>>>>> (that's another story).
>>>>>>> ...
>>
>> Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.
>>
>> Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
>> allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem
>> here.
>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade
>>>>>>> assembly
>>>>>>> on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan blade
>>>>>>> assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
>>>>>> rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
>>>>>> air intake without the motor in the way ?
>>>>>
>>>>> The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
>>>>> night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
>>>>> though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of
>>>>> the house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
>>>>> flow.
>>>>>
>>>>> A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
>>>>> placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
>>>>> still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
>>>>> effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
>>>>> flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
>>>>> would be much closer to the window.
>>>>
>>>> Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
>>>> in the female of the species.
>>
>> (to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
>> species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
>> great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so on...
>>
>>>
>>> No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out
>>> a shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts
>>> are not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
>>> electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
>>> this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?
> Not a chance and with good reason
>
> Pity.
>> Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
>> electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
>> homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
>> the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
>> home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
>> sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
>> he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
>> inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!
>
> We have a system of indentured trades people , we also have 240ac and
> 415 ac electrical systems and the average home is fused to 120 amps or
> more at the fuse box with individual power sockets to 10 amp@ 240v , you
> generally only get once mistake at those levels hence the inability to
> do your own work
> The same with telecommunications equipment you have to use a trady or
> suffer huge fines , thanks mainly to a few home installers doing serious
> damage to local exchanges over the years
>>
>> John :-#)#
>>
>
>
Work by non trades people is not as dangerous as some people seem to
think.If you take the thousands and thousands of electrical items sold
in supermarkets etc the vast majority of which are installed illegally
by non licensed people and compare statistically the number of incidents
this causes you may realize it is not the problem alarmists may think.
If it were such a problem the powers that be would stop the non licensed
obtaining them.


== 8 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 5:10 am
From: atec77


On 12/02/2011 9:49 PM, F Murtz wrote:
> atec77 wrote:
>> On 12/02/2011 7:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:
>>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>> I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
>>>>>>>>>>>> (Coles
>>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>>> Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
>>>>>>>>>>>> wired up
>>>>>>>>>>>> (that's another story).
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>
>>> Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.
>>>
>>> Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
>>> allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem
>>> here.
>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade
>>>>>>>> assembly
>>>>>>>> on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan
>>>>>>>> blade
>>>>>>>> assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including motor) be
>>>>>>> rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
>>>>>>> air intake without the motor in the way ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
>>>>>> night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
>>>>>> though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of
>>>>>> the house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
>>>>>> flow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
>>>>>> placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
>>>>>> still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
>>>>>> effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
>>>>>> flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
>>>>>> would be much closer to the window.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is absent
>>>>> in the female of the species.
>>>
>>> (to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
>>> species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
>>> great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so
>>> on...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out
>>>> a shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts
>>>> are not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
>>>> electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
>>>> this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?
>> Not a chance and with good reason
>>
>> Pity.
>>> Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
>>> electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
>>> homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
>>> the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
>>> home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
>>> sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
>>> he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job. This
>>> inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!
>>
>> We have a system of indentured trades people , we also have 240ac and
>> 415 ac electrical systems and the average home is fused to 120 amps or
>> more at the fuse box with individual power sockets to 10 amp@ 240v , you
>> generally only get once mistake at those levels hence the inability to
>> do your own work
>> The same with telecommunications equipment you have to use a trady or
>> suffer huge fines , thanks mainly to a few home installers doing serious
>> damage to local exchanges over the years
>>>
>>> John :-#)#
>>>
>>
>>
> Work by non trades people is not as dangerous as some people seem to
> think.If you take the thousands and thousands of electrical items sold
> in supermarkets etc the vast majority of which are installed illegally
> by non licensed people and compare statistically the number of incidents
> this causes you may realize it is not the problem alarmists may think.

One death or injury is to many
and considering some of the incredibly stupid electrical work getting
done I cant agree

> If it were such a problem the powers that be would stop the non licensed
> obtaining them.
just people driving while disqualified

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

== 9 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 5:23 am
From: Sylvia Else


On 13/02/2011 12:10 AM, atec77 wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 9:49 PM, F Murtz wrote:
>> atec77 wrote:
>>> On 12/02/2011 7:15 PM, John Robertson wrote:
>>>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> On 12/02/2011 8:28 AM, fritz wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<sylvia@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:8rkr99Fq2eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM, kreed wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:8rgq9dFodeU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/02/2011 11:23 AM, Metro wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:8rfc4qFt5gU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I had occasion to dismantle a cheap pedestal fan the other day
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (Coles
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Collection). It hadn't failed, but I wanted to see how it was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wired up
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (that's another story).
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> Curiosity, good! I'd hire you as an apprentice at my pinball shop.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That's not going to fix the problem of the blades being stalled.
>>>>
>>>> Not sure about 'stalled' here, unless the gearing is designed to not
>>>> allow reverse direction I am having trouble understanding the problem
>>>> here.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What I would really need to do is fit the one-piece fan blade
>>>>>>>>> assembly
>>>>>>>>> on back to front (as well as reversing the motor), but the fan
>>>>>>>>> blade
>>>>>>>>> assembly is not designed to be attached the other way around.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Might sound silly, but cant the entire fan head (including
>>>>>>>> motor) be
>>>>>>>> rotated 180 degrees, or do you want the
>>>>>>>> air intake without the motor in the way ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The application is to suck cool air in through an open window at
>>>>>>> night. During the recent heat wave, it was noticeable that even
>>>>>>> though the temperature outside drops at night, the temperature of
>>>>>>> the house doesn't drop that much. The problem is lack of air
>>>>>>> flow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
>>>>>>> placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are
>>>>>>> still quite a way from the cool air, and so the result is not as
>>>>>>> effective as it might be. If I could reverse the direction of
>>>>>>> flow, then I could also turn then fan around, so that the blades
>>>>>>> would be much closer to the window.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stick the fan outside, blow the air inside. Lateral thinking is
>>>>>> absent
>>>>>> in the female of the species.
>>>>
>>>> (to previous poster) Right, no lateral thinking in the female of the
>>>> species? Explain that to Madame Curie, Margaret Thatcher (OK, not a
>>>> great example), my daughter (5 year physics and math major), and so
>>>> on...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> No worries, though it's 10' above the ground. I'll just cantelever out
>>>>> a shelf, and a shelter (fan's not waterproof, and weather forecasts
>>>>> are not sufficiently reliable), get a sparky in to do the weatherproof
>>>>> electrics (which I could do myself but am not legally permitted to in
>>>>> this Australian nanny state), and it'll be fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>
>>>> You can't get a permit to do your own home wiring in Australia?
>>> Not a chance and with good reason
>>>
>>> Pity.
>>>> Here in most of Canada - as long as the city (or relevant jurisdiction)
>>>> electrical inspector OKs the job (permit required) - then the handy
>>>> homeowner is permitted to do their own work - obviously one does it to
>>>> the electrical code. I did quite a bit of improvements to my previous
>>>> home, the inspector came in, examined a few random spots (opened
>>>> sockets, boxes, etc) and like what he saw and signed off on the job. If
>>>> he wasn't happy I would have had to open every box to show the job.
>>>> This
>>>> inspection was before I put the wallboard up of course!
>>>
>>> We have a system of indentured trades people , we also have 240ac and
>>> 415 ac electrical systems and the average home is fused to 120 amps or
>>> more at the fuse box with individual power sockets to 10 amp@ 240v , you
>>> generally only get once mistake at those levels hence the inability to
>>> do your own work
>>> The same with telecommunications equipment you have to use a trady or
>>> suffer huge fines , thanks mainly to a few home installers doing serious
>>> damage to local exchanges over the years
>>>>
>>>> John :-#)#
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Work by non trades people is not as dangerous as some people seem to
>> think.If you take the thousands and thousands of electrical items sold
>> in supermarkets etc the vast majority of which are installed illegally
>> by non licensed people and compare statistically the number of incidents
>> this causes you may realize it is not the problem alarmists may think.
>
> One death or injury is to many
> and considering some of the incredibly stupid electrical work getting
> done I cant agree

We could allow people to attend courses, and get certificates allowing
them to do home electrical work. How hard can it be?

We live in a world full of dangers. Electricity is nothing special in
that respect.

Sylvia.


== 10 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 5:43 am
From: kreed


On Feb 12, 7:54 pm, Jasen Betts <ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
> On 2011-02-12, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>
> > It's an interesting idea. I'll have to look at what size pots are
> > available (and how much they weigh) next time I'm at the hardware store.
>
> > Mind you, plywood doesn't come cheap :(
>
> If you want to save money go second-hand.  eg: the powdercoated
> zinc-alume treated sheet steel front off a dead washing machine
> can probably had for a few bucks (if not less) from a scrap-metal
> place , recycle market, or appliance repairer.
>
> A demolition yard will probably have used flooring ply "cheap".
> 19mm (typical flooring thickness) is probably overkill strength-wise
> but should fit the winbdow track ok.
>
> Another thing you can do is ask in the wood part of the hardware shop for a
> coversheet.  Coversheets are the factory soiled sheets of ply (or mdf etc)
> that are used to protect the top and bottom sheets in the stack during
> shipping. 2.4x1.2m so youll need be prepared to transport something
> that big. they will usually be significantly cheaper as they can't be used
> for the normal purpose of the product.
>
> --
> ⚂⚃ 100% natural
>
> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...@netfront.net ---


There is plenty of wood in various forms at the rubbish dump sale shop
locally - cheap, including old doors, offcuts etc

If you think about it, you only need 4 strips a few inches wide,
remember that most of the centre will be cut out for the fan


If you were that hard up, and were local, I would cut out the thing
for you myself for nothing, as I have plenty of bits here that could
be used.

== 11 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 6:36 am
From: atec77


On 12/02/2011 11:43 PM, kreed wrote:
> On Feb 12, 7:54 pm, Jasen Betts<ja...@xnet.co.nz> wrote:
>> On 2011-02-12, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> It's an interesting idea. I'll have to look at what size pots are
>>> available (and how much they weigh) next time I'm at the hardware store.
>>
>>> Mind you, plywood doesn't come cheap :(
>>
>> If you want to save money go second-hand. eg: the powdercoated
>> zinc-alume treated sheet steel front off a dead washing machine
>> can probably had for a few bucks (if not less) from a scrap-metal
>> place , recycle market, or appliance repairer.
>>
>> A demolition yard will probably have used flooring ply "cheap".
>> 19mm (typical flooring thickness) is probably overkill strength-wise
>> but should fit the winbdow track ok.
>>
>> Another thing you can do is ask in the wood part of the hardware shop for a
>> coversheet. Coversheets are the factory soiled sheets of ply (or mdf etc)
>> that are used to protect the top and bottom sheets in the stack during
>> shipping. 2.4x1.2m so youll need be prepared to transport something
>> that big. they will usually be significantly cheaper as they can't be used
>> for the normal purpose of the product.
>>
>> --
>> ⚂⚃ 100% natural
>>
>> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...@netfront.net ---
>
>
> There is plenty of wood in various forms at the rubbish dump sale shop
> locally - cheap, including old doors, offcuts etc
>
> If you think about it, you only need 4 strips a few inches wide,
> remember that most of the centre will be cut out for the fan
>
>
> If you were that hard up, and were local, I would cut out the thing
> for you myself for nothing, as I have plenty of bits here that could
> be used.
>
All it takes is some cardboard or light ply gaffer and silastic

--
X-No-Archive: Yes

== 12 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 9:47 am
From: John Robertson


Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 12:28 PM, kreed wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 11:19 am, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 12/02/2011 11:54 AM, kreed wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 12, 10:42 am, Archon<Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 2/11/2011 8:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:> On 11/02/2011 11:56
>>>>> PM, kreed wrote:
>>>>>>> On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> n
>>>
>>>>>> I'm thinking of using box fans instead.
>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>>>> Don't you have window fans where you live?
>>>
>>>>> http://www.target.com/Lasko-Electric-Reversible-Twin-Window/dp/B001VE...
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>> You can get them here (USA) for $20
>>>>> JC
>>>
>>>> Never seen them, but they would be perfect for what Sylvia wants to
>>>> achieve I think.
>>>> They are on Ebay, but all from the USA.
>>>
>>> I found Lasko's web site. None of the instruction sheets (which I
>>> thought might specify the power) seem to exist. So I emailed the
>>> webadmin whose address was given on the web site. That email address
>>> appears not to exist either (it bounced).
>>>
>>> I hope they're better at making fans than they are at maintaining web
>>> sites.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> These fans are also available on Ebay - search "window fan" and
>> "outside australia" and
>> there are several identical models. The sellers might be able to
>> help ?
>
> I presume I'd need to buy a step down transformer, and then there's the
> issue of the different frequency.
>
> Sylvia.

Frequency difference only means the fans would spin a bit slower @ 50Hz
than at 60Hz. About 16% (1/6th) slower...not enough to matter I'm sure -
just turn it up one speed.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


== 13 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 9:54 am
From: John Robertson


Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 3:51 PM, kreed wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 2:22 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 12/02/2011 2:43 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2011-02-11, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> A conventional pedestal fan blows in such a direction that when it's
>>>>> placed as near as possible to a window, the fan blades are still
>>>>> quite a
>>>>> way from the cool air, and so the result is not as effective as it
>>>>> might
>>>>> be. If I could reverse the direction of flow, then I could also turn
>>>>> then fan around, so that the blades would be much closer to the
>>>>> window.
>>>
>>>>> I considered simply building a duct, but the cost of materials was
>>>>> excessive.
>>>
>>>> I guess you didn't consider cardboard and packing tape then :)
>>>> or a cheap plastic bucket?
>>>
>>> The fan is too big for a plastic bucket. I considered cardboard but it
>>> was far from clear to me that it was going to be strong enough without
>>> bracing that would further complicate the task.
>>>
>>> This isn't a research project. I was looking for a solution that would
>>> definitely work, and be robust.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> Some of those larger black plastic pot plant containers might be big
>> enough, also are sturdy,
>> UV resistant (since used outdoors in a garden).
>>
>> Cut a piece of plywood to fit the window gap, cut a hole in the ply
>> suit the diameter
>> of the pot, (and at the right height to suit the fan) cut the bottom
>> out of the pot, and screw the pot to the ply.
>>
>> This might make a big enough, and very strong duct for relatively
>> little cost. IIRC those pots are sturdy enough
>> so that they aren't likely to flap around in the wind. You can
>> probably paint them any colour you like, if you don't like black
>> colour.
>>
>
> It's an interesting idea. I'll have to look at what size pots are
> available (and how much they weigh) next time I'm at the hardware store.
>
> Mind you, plywood doesn't come cheap :(
>
> Sylvia.

Is "winge" the Australian rendition of "whinge"? Just asking as Folks
from the USA spell colour or neighbour in an interesting way and I
figured Downunders may take similar liberties...

(ducking)

John ;-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."


== 14 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 12:04 pm
From: Archon


On 2/11/2011 8:19 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 11:54 AM, kreed wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 10:42 am, Archon<Chipbee40_Spa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 2/11/2011 8:18 AM, Sylvia Else wrote:> On 11/02/2011 11:56 PM,
>>> kreed wrote:
>>>>> On Feb 11, 9:20 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/02/2011 8:11 AM, ian field wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> "Sylvia Else"<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> n
>>>
>>>> I'm thinking of using box fans instead.
>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> Don't you have window fans where you live?
>>>
>>> http://www.target.com/Lasko-Electric-Reversible-Twin-Window/dp/B001VE...
>>>
>>> You can get them here (USA) for $20
>>> JC
>>
>> Never seen them, but they would be perfect for what Sylvia wants to
>> achieve I think.
>> They are on Ebay, but all from the USA.
>
> I found Lasko's web site. None of the instruction sheets (which I
> thought might specify the power) seem to exist. So I emailed the
> webadmin whose address was given on the web site. That email address
> appears not to exist either (it bounced).
>
> I hope they're better at making fans than they are at maintaining web
> sites.
>
> Sylvia.
The one I have (Lasko) is 0.85A 120VAC
JC


== 15 of 15 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 4:16 pm
From: kreed


On Feb 13, 12:36 am, atec77 <ate...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 11:43 PM, kreed wrote:
>
> > On Feb 12, 7:54 pm, Jasen Betts<ja...@xnet.co.nz>  wrote:
> >> On 2011-02-12, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid>  wrote:
>
> >>> It's an interesting idea. I'll have to look at what size pots are
> >>> available (and how much they weigh) next time I'm at the hardware store.
>
> >>> Mind you, plywood doesn't come cheap :(
>
> >> If you want to save money go second-hand.  eg: the powdercoated
> >> zinc-alume treated sheet steel front off a dead washing machine
> >> can probably had for a few bucks (if not less) from a scrap-metal
> >> place , recycle market, or appliance repairer.
>
> >> A demolition yard will probably have used flooring ply "cheap".
> >> 19mm (typical flooring thickness) is probably overkill strength-wise
> >> but should fit the winbdow track ok.
>
> >> Another thing you can do is ask in the wood part of the hardware shop for a
> >> coversheet.  Coversheets are the factory soiled sheets of ply (or mdf etc)
> >> that are used to protect the top and bottom sheets in the stack during
> >> shipping. 2.4x1.2m so youll need be prepared to transport something
> >> that big. they will usually be significantly cheaper as they can't be used
> >> for the normal purpose of the product.
>
> >> --
> >> ⚂⚃ 100% natural
>
> >> --- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: n...@netfront.net ---
>
> > There is plenty of wood in various forms at the rubbish dump sale shop
> > locally - cheap, including old doors, offcuts etc
>
> > If you think about it, you only need 4 strips a few inches wide,
> > remember that most of the centre will be cut out for the fan
>
> > If you were that hard up, and were local, I would cut out the thing
> > for you myself for nothing, as I have plenty of bits here that could
> > be used.
>
> All it takes is some cardboard or light ply gaffer and silastic
>
> --
> X-No-Archive: Yes

At aldi today, I saw these sheets of very thick cardboard that are in
the egg display close to about 80cm square. There is one of these
sheets between every 4th or so lots of stacked egg cartons. These
would probably do, and Aldi don't care if you take them. They make
very good packaging material I find.


==============================================================================
TOPIC: External Firewire CD Burner
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/96c34c4034e31d45?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 1:46 am
From: D Yuniskis


Hi Joe,

On 2/11/2011 11:00 PM, Joe wrote:
> It worked! Thanks for the info that made me bold enough to squeeze those
> plastic pieces hard enough to get some of the "fingers" (tabs on
> fingers(?)) to pop out of the grooves. See what follows for a few of my
> comments interspersed about what you had said.

Having *done* it, I think you will agree that it is a lot
easier to *do* than to describe *how* to do it! :< My
language skills are just not up to that sort of challenge.

And, like most snap-together-things, it "makes incredible sense"
once you see how it all works.

> In article<ij4qe5$pob$1@speranza.aioe.org>, D Yuniskis
> <not.going.to.be@seen.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2/11/2011 3:25 PM, Joe wrote:
>>> I have a Que Fire, model QPS-525. I would like to remove the Teac CD
>>> burner and replace it with a bare Combo drive (CD Read/Write and DVD
>>> Read). How do I open that plastic case that encloses the drive? The only
>>> visible screws are very small ones on the back that look like they only
>>> hold the on/off switch and the firewire ports to a black plastic panel.
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> If it is similar to the other Que's that I've had, the
>> "accent colored" pieces (wrap over each side and another
>> on the front) snap off.
>
> The third "accent colored" piece is on the back, but nothing really
> different about its being there.

Ah, my bad. I remembered it was on one *end* and assumed
"front" instead of "back" :-( (I don't have a Que to
look at)

> Once they are off, you'll understand
>> how to *get* them off (catch-22) -- hard to explain, here.
>> (putting them on, you kind of have to *hook* one half and
>> then "stretch" the other half -- of each *piece* -- until
>> it clicks into place)
>>
>> IIRC, once these are off, the top and bottom halves of the
>> shell separate.
>
> Nope, once I had the "accent colored" pieces off, the sumbitch was still
> solidly held together. There are three tabs X 2 on the translucent
> colorless halves, and they come apart in the same way that the other

Ah, OK.

> pieces came off. But the front-most tabs on fingers were a real biyatch
> to open, even though I had already honed my tab-releasing skills on the
> preceding eight tabs. Holey moley, Batman!
>
>> Just remember: plastic breaks!
>
> Disassembled without breaking any of it! :)

I wonder if the folks who design these enclosures sit around
chuckling over how devious their designs are? Maybe getting
some pleasure out of knowing how frustrating it is to sort
out The Trick without damaging or scarring the product in the
process?

>> I can't recall the role of the screws you mentioned. Can't
>> hurt to take them out *first* and see what else loosens up.
>
> Didn't have to loosen those screws.

OK. I have other external enclosures where two screws on
the rear hold the "guts" in place (and the case slides off
like a sleeve). Couldn't recall if that was the case, here.

>> You should probably test new drive cabled into the case
>> *before* reassembling.
>
> Absolutely! I have been playing with it for (mumble) some time now, and
> some things work, others don't. The interesting thing is that my internal

Make sure the Master/Slave/etc. straps on the drive are set
properly (look at the previous drive). I have a cute little
*4* CD drive that I pulled from a machine some time ago.
I have been wanting to coax it to work in an external
enclosure but, I suspect, the command interface that tells
the drive (changer) which CD to load is "proprietary". And,
if you can't command it to change disks, it's no better than
a *single* CD drive! :-/

> CD DVD R& W won't read some data Maxell DVD-R's that *it* burned but the
> DVD reader that is now in the Que Fire *will* read those DVD-R's.

I keep a variety of CD/DVD drives (R & R/W) to handle the inevitable
"read error" problems that seem to crop up. I haven't sorted out
whether it is differences in laser "color" (with age), mechanism
"slop", etc. Drives are cheap and reasonably small so it's easier
to have a few "spares"...

> And the whole operation only took like 15 minutes! Yeah, right, April Fool :)

Wanna bet you'll forget *something* and remember it 1.5 ohnoseconds
*after* you snap the outer panels on?? :> (Hint: think about which
"side" should be top/bottom before installing the drive)

--don

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Pictures - Saint Valentine's Day Hotties
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/97eb4a42889fbde1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 3:02 am
From: RoadRunner


http://www.craigboyce.com/ValentineHotties/Valentine_Hotties.shtml

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Washing machine motor won't start, bad triac ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/96d2b3fb706b3e62?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 5:19 am
From: PeterD


On Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:32:40 +0000 (UTC), Andre Majorel
<cheney@halliburton.com> wrote:

>After reflowing everything on the controller board and reseating
>the connectors it still won't work.
>
>The motor of the washing machine spins for a few degrees and
>stops. You can get it to spin (slowly) by pulling on the belt
>but only in one direction ! Lots of sparks inside the motor.
>

Lot's of sparks inside the motor doesn't sound like a bad triac to me.
Sounds like a bad motor.


== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 7:20 pm
From: Jamie


Andre Majorel wrote:

> On 2011-02-11, Jeffrey Angus <jangus@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
>>On 2/11/2011 2:32 PM, Andre Majorel wrote:
>>
>>>After reflowing everything on the controller board and reseating
>>>the connectors it still won't work.
>>>
>>>The motor of the washing machine spins for a few degrees and
>>>stops. You can get it to spin (slowly) by pulling on the belt
>>>but only in one direction ! Lots of sparks inside the motor.
>>>
>>>The brushes are good and the motor seems mechanically fine.
>>>I suspect the triac (ST BTB16 600CI). Plausible ?
>>
>>does the motor have a start capacitor and a centrifugal
>>speed switch to disconnect it?
>
>
> I thought that was mutually exclusive with having brushes.
>
I didn't know washing machines had brushed motors?

They do have variable speed controllers that do fail, along with
shorting the motor windings with them! :)

Jamie


==============================================================================
TOPIC: ROMANTIC SHOW
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/810e38b075f64853?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 10:01 am
From: darling2525


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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Computer runs faster because it is soldered.. haha..
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a74e97b5f167a0e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 10:13 am
From: "Michael Kennedy"


I was reading some flame war and read this.. I am sharing it because I was
qutie entertained.

********************
"So apple computers are hardwired meaning that because everything is
directly connected with solder it is going to run faster. this usually makes
a computer more expensive."

<snipped not so funny garblie gook>

"Source(s):
computer science major"
*********************

And no I dont want to start a windows vs mac debate.. They both have their
places.


== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 3:01 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann


On Sun, 13 Feb 2011 03:13:35 +0900, "Michael Kennedy"
<mikek400@crap.comcast.net> wrote:

>I was reading some flame war and read this.. I am sharing it because I was
>qutie entertained.
>
>********************
>"So apple computers are hardwired meaning that because everything is
>directly connected with solder it is going to run faster. this usually makes
>a computer more expensive."
>
><snipped not so funny garblie gook>
>
>"Source(s):
>computer science major"
>*********************

Cute. It's also wrong in another way. If you cut a board in half you
double the cost to manufacture. That includes everything involved in
building the board such as procurement, inventory control, handling,
packaging, mounting, interconnect, inspection, etc. This is why
single board computers are more popular than plug-in conglomerations.

The choice solder also makes a minor difference. RoHS Sn/Ag/Cu/Sb
solder has a resistivity of 1.21E^-7 ohm.m while Sn/Pb eutectic solder
has a resistivity of 1.45E^-7 ohm.m. While a 17% change in
conductivity may not seem like much, it makes a hell of difference
dealing with ground bounce problems when the 1.4V i7 CPU might draw 65
amps on peaks. Most of the traces are copper, so that had to be
beefed up, but the typically crappy soldering also needed thickening.

>And no I dont want to start a windows vs mac debate.. They both have their
>places.

Aw, you're no fun... I might as well throw in some flame bait.

In Dec 2009, I threw together a spreadsheet comparing as near
identical offerings from Apple and Dell. See:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/Mac-vs-PC.xls>
Except for the 13" MacBook, the price of the Apple products is about
twice that of the Dell offerings. Obviously, things have changed
since 2009, but since it took me all day to throw that together, I'll
wait until I catch a cold or have some time to bring the spreadsheet
up to date.

Since this is a repair newsgroup, I might mention that many Apple
products are impossible to repair. Tearing apart the latest mice and
aluminum keyboards will guarantee its destruction. Disassembly of
many computers are also difficult and require much prying and
swearing. I now carry a putty knife for the Mac Mini, and a roll of
mylar tape to reassemble the iBook. The ancient Mac Cube is full of
proprietary and nearly unobtainable screws. Opening an iPod, iPhone
or iPad is rather tricky, until the tricks are learned. Basically,
Apple products are designed to be non-repairable.

Gone to find out what stinks in the shop. Probably a dead mouse.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558


== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 3:45 pm
From: David Nebenzahl


On 2/12/2011 3:01 PM Jeff Liebermann spake thus:

> Gone to find out what stinks in the shop. Probably a dead mouse.

Maybe it's one of those unrepairable Mac mice, moldering in the corner
underneath your bench ...


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.


== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 7:08 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> Gone to find out what stinks in the shop. Probably a dead mouse.


Time to switch to a trackball? ;-)


--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.


== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 12 2011 7:09 pm
From: Joe


In article <4d571b3a$0$27531$822641b3@news.adtechcomputers.com>,
David Nebenzahl <nobody@but.us.chickens> wrote:

> On 2/12/2011 3:01 PM Jeff Liebermann spake thus:
>
> > Gone to find out what stinks in the shop. Probably a dead mouse.
>
> Maybe it's one of those unrepairable Mac mice, moldering in the corner
> underneath your bench ...

Youse guys are doing irreparable harm to this group's reputation for
linguistic punctiliousness.


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