sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? - 3 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ce6c11f1c7a190bf?hl=en
* possible problem with Sony flat-face WEGA - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8fc4ce0a3ea9ba13?hl=en
* Intels 1 billion mistake - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6d28be07e85250d5?hl=en
* Pet hates ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7925b5c2233e9ec?hl=en

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TOPIC: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ce6c11f1c7a190bf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 4:56 pm
From: lsmartino

On Feb 1, 6:22 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> bud-- wrote:
>
> > Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > > tm wrote:
> > >> I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea.
>
> > >    No, it isn't.  You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and
> > > freezers.  They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI.  I haven't
> > > seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in
> > > the US to use a GFCI to power either.
>
> > It  was never against the code to use GFCIs on refrigeration.
>
> > But the NEC used to have exceptions for GFCI requirements in garages and
> > basements where a refrigerator/freezer would be plugged in. Those
> > exceptions are gone.
>
> > Plug-in refrigerators/freezers using 15/20A 120V receptacles in
> > commercial kitchens are required to be on GFCI protected receptacles.
>
> > The UL allowed leakage for refrigerators/freezers is about 0.5mA.
> > Tripping a GFCI means the appliance has a problem.
>
>    Try to get someone to replace a refrigerator that trips a GFCI once
> every six months.
>
> --
> You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
> Teflon coated.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, I guess that I´m fortunate then. I live in a small appartment
and I have 4 outlets in my kitchen which are feed by two separate
circuits, with a dedicated circuit breaker for each one. Each circuit
is also protected by a GFCI. Each GFCI controls two outlets, including
the GFCI itself. In one of the circuits I have a refrigerator and a
microwave oven plugged in, and the GFCI has never tripped. I´m sure
the GFCI works because it trips when the test button is pressed
turning off everything plugged to it including the refrigerator outlet
which is wired to the output of the GFCI.

The refrigerator is an LG, less than six years old. I guess it is
pretty well insulated, both electrically and thermally.

Of course, I agree that an old fridge probably has enough leakage to
trip a GFCI given certain conditions, but I think that with newer
refrigerators that shouldn´t be an issue.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 5:06 pm
From: lsmartino

On Jan 30, 12:03 pm, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
>
> At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.
>
> I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor.  When one of
> them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.
>
> I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
> those units that might have them.
>
> Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
> first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)
>
> I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
> repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.
>
> Items for sale, if interested:
> I can install it myself.  I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/d...http://www.amazon.com/INTERMATIC-IG3240RC3-PANEL-SURGE-ARRESTOR/dp/B0...http://www.smarthome.com/4860/Leviton-51120-1-Whole-House-Surge-Suppr...
>
> and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI

I think that repairing a whole house surge protector is like trying to
repair a circuit breaker. OK, technically it can be done, but there is
no way to reliabily test them for performance after the repair. For
instance, after opening a 20A circuit breaker to "fix it", there is no
way to be sure that the breaker will trip at their designated
ampacity. The same applies to a whole house surge protector... there
is no way to test it for reliability after the repair. Also, there is
the risk that the repaired protector catches fire when the time to
clamp a surge comes if it wasn´t properly repaired. To me trying to
save 100 or 200 US$ is no excuse for taking the risk of burning down a
whole house.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 5:59 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

lsmartino wrote:
>
> On Feb 1, 6:22 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > bud-- wrote:
> >
> > > Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > > > tm wrote:
> > > >> I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea.
> >
> > > > No, it isn't. You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and
> > > > freezers. They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI. I haven't
> > > > seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in
> > > > the US to use a GFCI to power either.
> >
> > > It was never against the code to use GFCIs on refrigeration.
> >
> > > But the NEC used to have exceptions for GFCI requirements in garages and
> > > basements where a refrigerator/freezer would be plugged in. Those
> > > exceptions are gone.
> >
> > > Plug-in refrigerators/freezers using 15/20A 120V receptacles in
> > > commercial kitchens are required to be on GFCI protected receptacles.
> >
> > > The UL allowed leakage for refrigerators/freezers is about 0.5mA.
> > > Tripping a GFCI means the appliance has a problem.
> >
> > Try to get someone to replace a refrigerator that trips a GFCI once
> > every six months.
> >
> > --
> > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
> > Teflon coated.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Well, I guess that I´m fortunate then. I live in a small appartment
> and I have 4 outlets in my kitchen which are feed by two separate
> circuits, with a dedicated circuit breaker for each one. Each circuit
> is also protected by a GFCI. Each GFCI controls two outlets, including
> the GFCI itself. In one of the circuits I have a refrigerator and a
> microwave oven plugged in, and the GFCI has never tripped. I´m sure
> the GFCI works because it trips when the test button is pressed
> turning off everything plugged to it including the refrigerator outlet
> which is wired to the output of the GFCI.
>
> The refrigerator is an LG, less than six years old. I guess it is
> pretty well insulated, both electrically and thermally.
>
> Of course, I agree that an old fridge probably has enough leakage to
> trip a GFCI given certain conditions, but I think that with newer
> refrigerators that shouldn´t be an issue.

Refigerators or freezers are reqired to be on a circuit by
themselves. A lot of older homes, or places that were enver inspected
didn't do this. I generally had three dedicated circuits to a kitchen,
and had the ceiling lights on a fourth, shared lighting only circuit.
If a refrigerator or similar appliance with a three wire cord is bad
enough to trip a GFCI, either it will stay at a low leakage, or quickly
reach a point to trip the breaker.

A lot of the leakage current comes from capacitance between the motor
windings, and the motor's core. New or old, this will always exist.
There is a lot higher risk of food posioning that electrocution from a
faulty refigerator or freezer.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: possible problem with Sony flat-face WEGA
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8fc4ce0a3ea9ba13?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 5:34 pm
From: Chuck

On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 11:41:03 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
<grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

>> The condition is usually caused by the CRT's cathode
>> emission becoming weaker. When the picture no longer
>> comes on, adjusting the screen control higher will allow
>> the set to work for a few months to a year more.
>
>I kinda expected that. If you're correct, it looks like I won't get my
>money's worth out of the set.
>
>I wonder if anyone still makes CRT heater boosters. <grin> Remember those?
>
CRT brighteners are still available but I wouldn't go that route
until the screen control adjustment is no longer effective.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 2 2011 12:17 am
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Jan 30, 7:21 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> I'm posting this to see if anyone /knows/ the answer, or has a reasonable
> suspicion. I do not want to initiate an interminable chain of speculation.
>
> I own a 36" flat-face 400-series Sony WEGA IDTV and, yes, I have the service
> manual. The set has gotten heavy use over the past decade; I often leave it
> on when I go to bed. It wasn't cheap, and I'd like to get at least another
> five years out of it. For a non-HD CRT set, it has an excellent picture,
> especially with RGB signals from a DVD player.
>
> When the set's turned on, the HV is apparently shut off, so that the CRT
> heater has time to come to full temperature, to avoid stripping the cathode.
> (This is speculation.) Though sound comes on almost immediately, it takes
> about 10 seconds for the raster to appear.
>
> Recently I've noticed "something new". For about two seconds after the
> raster comes on, the black level is too light. You can see the image
> "darkening" as the black level drops to its "correct" point. This occurs
> only when the set is "cold"; cycling the power doesn't cause this.
>
> I'm hoping someone will say "I've seen this. It's the ___________."
> Troubleshooting this set won't be easy (if only because it's close to the
> wall on a near-immovable stand). I don't want to tear into it until I'm
> reasonably certain I can fix it on the first try.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> --
> "We already know the answers -- we just haven't asked the right
> questions." -- Edwin Land

The industrial Sony's do a very similar thing as the CRT warms up. In
those you're waiting for the beam current feedback to get up to speed.
Since you have the service manual, is there anything in there about
setting G2 by monitoring a specific set of lines in the vertical
interval?

G²

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Intels 1 billion mistake
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6d28be07e85250d5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 7:32 pm
From: Fred

bob urz <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in news:ii9em9$h2t$1@speranza.aioe.org:

> http://mbtmag.com/Content.aspx?id=1937
>
> bob
>

Nuts! Old computer stores, like Best Buy, will buy up defective units and
be selling them as new for years......

Caveat Emptor.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pet hates ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7925b5c2233e9ec?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 2 2011 12:34 am
From: "N_Cook"

I will add

UK term : US term
spline key (specifically dovetail plan-form) : Bristol wrench
to my "translator"
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/tool_terms.htm
any other contributions accepted

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