sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor? - 8 messages, 4
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ce6c11f1c7a190bf?hl=en
* A joke - 9 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5c3e80bc2dc215f3?hl=en
* Pet hates ? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7925b5c2233e9ec?hl=en
* Intels 1 billion mistake - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6d28be07e85250d5?hl=en
* motherboard pwr_on pins resistance? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/65d60dc1b24d5107?hl=en
* sony cassette belt kits - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ecbb7e3edf61614c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ce6c11f1c7a190bf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 8:44 am
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"

Fred wrote:
> "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in
> news:slrnikg439.iml.gsm@cable.mendelson.com:
>
>> Here in Israel
>
> Sorry, Geoff. It's not your fault, but I cannot forget my 3 friends who
> died....ever.
>
> http://gtr5.com/

To quote the website:

"the Johnson administration never sought the prosecution of the guilty
parties or otherwise attempted to seek justice for the victims. They
concealed and altered evidence in their effort to downplay the attack.
Though they never formally accepted the Israeli explanation that it was
an accident, they never pressed for a full investigation either. They
simply allowed those responsible literally to get away with murder."

Israel is a democracy, and has a very active High Court of Justice. The concept
of people suing the state for compensation is very much alive here.

Although it is over fourty years, and it might be impossible to find
anyone who was in charge that can testify, you might want to consider,
as a group, filing a law suit against the IDF for compensation and
information.

Geoff.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson N3OWJ/4X1GM
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to misquote it.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 10:08 am
From: bud--

GS wrote:
> On Jan 31, 2:23 pm, bud-- <remove.budn...@isp.com> wrote:
>> mm wrote:
>>> On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 08:37:32 -0800 (PST), GS <ze...@comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> On Jan 31, 9:45 am, GS <ze...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 30, 11:03 am, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Is it possible to repair a whole house surge suppressor?
>>>>>> At 100 to 200 dollars, I don't want to keep buying new ones.
>>>>>> I was going to install a whole house surge suppressor. When one of
>>>>>> them does its function, I think the MOV burns out, or some part does.
>>>>>> I haven't seen anything on the web about replacement modules for even
>>>>>> those units that might have them.
>>>>>> Will I be able to find, buy, and solder in replacement MOVs after the
>>>>>> first one burns out? (the green led goes out and the red led goes on)
>>>>>> I can't find any info about plug-in replacement parts, so if I can
>>>>>> repair any unit myself, I won't have to shop so thoroughly.
>>>>>> Items for sale, if interested:
>>>>>> I can install it myself. I'm considering, in ascending price order:http://www.amazon.com/Intermatic-IG1240RC3-Type-2-Protection-Device/d......
>>>>>> and less likely (plus two are required, one for each leg)http://www.amazon.com/Square-D-SDSA1175CP-ARRESTER-LIGHTNG/dp/B002GUZ1NI
>>>>> Its easy to find expensive ones. I guess if you can figure out how to
>>>>> take it apart
>>>>> you can fix it. I bought one a few months ago for $35. Here is anotherhttp://www.drillspot.com/products/122270/Square_D_SDSA1175_Surge_Arre...
>>>>> Drillspot sells Grainger stuff.
>>> Thanks. Now it's 56 dollars. I see that Amazon has this 36 also
>>> including shipping.
>>>>> greg
>>>> So I showed you the same model you showed first. But, you do NOT need
>>>> TWO.
>>> Oh, thank you. I got confused by the drawing, at
>>> http://surgelogic.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/SDSA1175_IB_8291-001...
>>> which shows two for 3-phase (but only one for single-phase), and since
>>> it has only 3 wires, one to the neutral, but none to the ground like
>>> some others have.
>> It is intended for installation in a service panel. In the US, the
>> service panel (containing the service disconnect) has the neutral and
>> ground bonded together
>
>
> I have yet to see suppressor not intended to be connected to breakers
> in a service
> panel.
>
> I also don't like to call these surge, but SPIKE yes.
> Surges to me a re very slow increases in voltage over the
> safe limit.

A surge is defined (IEEE) as a "subcycle disturbance"

A "swell" is a disturbance that lasts from 1/2 cycle to a few seconds.

Longer is "temporary overvoltage".

A "spike" is essentially the same as "surge".

>
> You can usually make local neutrals by connecting ground
> to a neutral,

Not obvious to me what you are saying, but in the US connections
between ground and neutral downstream from the service not allowed (some
specific exceptions).

> or make it using an isolation transformer, which
> makes ground to neutral noise non existent at that point.
>
> greg
>
>

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 10:16 am
From: bud--

Fred wrote:
>
> <...>
> If your house if FIRMLY attached to the pole transformer, "surges" are
> virtually impossible UNLESS you get hit by lightning.

"You" don't have to get hit. Strikes to power lines can cause damaging
surges into a building. So can close strikes. Surges can also enter on
cable and phone wires. And there are other sources of damaging surges.

> NO surge
> protector, no matter how expensive, says anything about LIGHTNING
> PROTECTOR, ever. That would be a lie.

The surge guru at the NIST looked at essentially a worst case event - a
100,000A lightning strike to the high voltage wire on a utility pole
(with transformer) behind a house with typical urban overhead
distribution. There are multiple paths to earth. The surge to the house
was 10,000A max for each service wire to the house. Service panel
suppressors are readily available with higher ratings. The probability
of a worse strike is close to zero.

You can protect from very close lightning strikes.

Lightning strikes to a building, of course, require lightning rods.

> The 23KV primary phase of
> America's 3 phase Tesla multiphase AC power system is quite stable. The
> natural magnetic hysteresis of the 60 hz core in your distribution
> transformer prevents any pulses from being sent to your house until the
> lightning protector in its primary fuse holder explodes in defeat.

Doesn't need the transformer. In the example above, a utility lightning
arrestor (installed on all the distribution transformers around here)
dumps the strike to earth via the grounding electrode on the pole. Since
the resistance to earth of that electrode is a few ohms at best, the
"ground potential" at the pole rises thousands of volts above "absolute
earth potential", and more particularly, above the earth potential at
the house. Since the secondary neutrals are connected to the "ground" at
the pole, this causes a large surge on the neutral to the house. A
significant portion of that surge is transferred to the hot wires by
inductive and capacitive coupling.

Usually the next worst to lightning for surges are normal and abnormal
utility operations. Potentially one of the worst of these is switching
of power factor correction capacitors. Utility produced surges can also
get into a building and cause damage to equipment.

>
> "Surge Protector" is a great sales gimmick.

It is a "gimmick" use by the IEEE in an excellent guide on surges and
surge protection at:
<http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/LightningGuide_FINALpublishedversion_May051.pdf>

And by the US-NIST in a surge guide at.
<http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/practiceguides/surgesfnl.pdf>
This one is less technical and aimed at the unwashed masses.

Both say surges from lightning and other sources are a problem and you
can protect against them.
===============

In something that hasn't come up in this thread - the NIST guide, using
US insurance information as one source, suggests that high voltage
between power and cable/telephone/.... wires causes much of the damage,
not just a surge reaching equipment through the power wires. The IEEE
surge guide has an example of such damage starting pdf page 40.

To protect from high voltage between power and phone/cable wires, the
ground wire from the entrance protector for both phone and cable has to
be short and connect to the power earthing system near the power
service. If wires are too long, surges coming in on phone or cable
wiring can produce high voltage between those wires and power wires.
That is what is shown in the IEEE guide example starting pdf page 40.
With a large surge, the building ground can rise thousands of volts
above "absolute earth potential". Much of the protection is that power
and phone and cable wires rise together.

Particularly for expensive equipment with power and phone/cable
connection a plug-in suppressor may be useful. All interconnected
equipment needs to be connected to the same suppressor, and all external
wires - phone/cable/... - need to go through the suppressor. The voltage
on all wires is clamped to the ground at the suppressor. (This is also
in the example in the IEEE guide starting pdf page 40.)

--
bud--

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 10:18 am
From: bud--

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> tm wrote:
>> I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea.
>
>
> No, it isn't. You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and
> freezers. They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI. I haven't
> seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in
> the US to use a GFCI to power either.
>

It was never against the code to use GFCIs on refrigeration.

But the NEC used to have exceptions for GFCI requirements in garages and
basements where a refrigerator/freezer would be plugged in. Those
exceptions are gone.

Plug-in refrigerators/freezers using 15/20A 120V receptacles in
commercial kitchens are required to be on GFCI protected receptacles.

The UL allowed leakage for refrigerators/freezers is about 0.5mA.
Tripping a GFCI means the appliance has a problem.

--
bud--

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 10:28 am
From: bud--

Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
> Fred wrote:
>> I think many electrical fires could be stopped if GFCI were required on
>> all circuits....including faulty appliances that trip them.

AFCIs are the device intended to save the world. They trip on an arc of
about 5A (the old ones needed an arc more like 60A). For new wiring they
are generally required in a home when a GFCI is not required. The 2011
NEC may required AFCI protection when receptacles are replaced. They
also trip on a ground fault of about 30mA - not for protection of people.

>
> Here in Israel they are required by the electric company BEFORE main breakers.
>
> You can't get a new connection without one, and every few years there is
> an advertising campaign to get people to install them in old homes.
>
> We have 230 volt single phase service, and 230 volt 3 phase split into three
> separate circuits, so we don't have the 120/240 problem in the US that
> was previously discussed.
>

There are several systems for handling "ground" wires. The basic
interest is that "ground" wires essentially be at earth potential, and
that contact between a hot wire and ground trips a breaker.

In the US, the ground wire system is connected to earthing electrode(s)
at the building. This is likely the case in other countries as well.

The US also requires the neutral and ground be bonded at the service
disconnect. If there is a hot-to-ground short the path is ground wire to
service panel, G-N bond to neutral, service neutral back to the utility
transformer. This metal path produces a high current to trip the
breaker. The earth essentially plays no part because the resistance of
the earth path is far to high to trip a breaker.

The UK, from what I have read, has several ways to handle the "ground
system". One is to earth the neutral at the utility transformer, not
have a N-G bond at the building, and not run a ground wire with the hot
and neutral service wires. Ground faults would return through the earth
and not produce enough current to trip a breaker. I believe that these
systems require an RCD (trips on H-N current imbalance like a GFCI) as
the service breaker. The fault current through the earth does trip the
RCD. (The trip level is far higher than the 4-6mA for a GFCI.)

Could be what you have in Israel.

--
bud--

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 2:20 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Fred wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:FuCdnUpmjq7LA9rQnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>
> > That doesn't stop them from chewing on a cord, or getting hold of a
> > lamp they knocked off a table.
> >
> >
>
> The 7ma current-to-ground trips the GFCI every time under your stretching
> scenario for the pissing contest. Yes, the kid would get an
> instantaneous shock in the millisecond range, to no harm, but there's
> plenty of leakage from hot to ground to trip the GFCI if he bites into a
> wire, even if he's across the neutral. I've heard this BS
> rationalization before trying to save money because they are expensive.
> But, we tested it. We took an old metal 2-wire Porter-Cable electric
> drill and ran a bright yellow wire from hot to the case of it....creating
> the electrical fault. If you stayed totally insulated from ground, the
> drill would run, but that damned GFCI was uncanny finding you out. Body
> leakage to the air Xc would even trip it. If you stood in your sneakers
> (insulated!) and touched the hot drill case, the GFCI tripped from the
> capacitor your foot made with the concrete under the insulated sole. If
> you started by touching NEUTRAL, THEN touching the hot drill motor, the
> trip was instantaneous, and you barely could feel the shock DIRECTLY
> ACROSS THE AC LINE before the GFCI tripped. Your idiot rationalization
> with the little kid across the line wouldn't wash....especially if he was
> sitting on a floor, even a wooden one with a vinyl top. (Click), dead
> circuit, live kid.

Read furter upstream where they are a=talking about whole hhouse
GFI. That is the Eurropean name, used on 240 volt service. It doesn't
trip at 7 mA.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 2:22 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

bud-- wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > tm wrote:
> >> I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea.
> >
> >
> > No, it isn't. You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and
> > freezers. They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI. I haven't
> > seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in
> > the US to use a GFCI to power either.
> >
>
> It was never against the code to use GFCIs on refrigeration.
>
> But the NEC used to have exceptions for GFCI requirements in garages and
> basements where a refrigerator/freezer would be plugged in. Those
> exceptions are gone.
>
> Plug-in refrigerators/freezers using 15/20A 120V receptacles in
> commercial kitchens are required to be on GFCI protected receptacles.
>
> The UL allowed leakage for refrigerators/freezers is about 0.5mA.
> Tripping a GFCI means the appliance has a problem.

Try to get someone to replace a refrigerator that trips a GFCI once
every six months.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 4:56 pm
From: lsmartino

On Feb 1, 6:22 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> bud-- wrote:
>
> > Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > > tm wrote:
> > >> I agree with the GFI protection on all household outlets. Good idea.
>
> > >    No, it isn't.  You can get nuisance trips on refrigerators and
> > > freezers.  They have grounded cords and they don't need GFCI.  I haven't
> > > seen a new copy of the NEC lately, but I was told it is against code in
> > > the US to use a GFCI to power either.
>
> > It  was never against the code to use GFCIs on refrigeration.
>
> > But the NEC used to have exceptions for GFCI requirements in garages and
> > basements where a refrigerator/freezer would be plugged in. Those
> > exceptions are gone.
>
> > Plug-in refrigerators/freezers using 15/20A 120V receptacles in
> > commercial kitchens are required to be on GFCI protected receptacles.
>
> > The UL allowed leakage for refrigerators/freezers is about 0.5mA.
> > Tripping a GFCI means the appliance has a problem.
>
>    Try to get someone to replace a refrigerator that trips a GFCI once
> every six months.
>
> --
> You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
> Teflon coated.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, I guess that I´m fortunate then. I live in a small appartment
and I have 4 outlets in my kitchen which are feed by two separate
circuits, with a dedicated circuit breaker for each one. Each circuit
is also protected by a GFCI. Each GFCI controls two outlets, including
the GFCI itself. In one of the circuits I have a refrigerator and a
microwave oven plugged in, and the GFCI has never tripped. I´m sure
the GFCI works because it trips when the test button is pressed
turning off everything plugged to it including the refrigerator outlet
which is wired to the output of the GFCI.

The refrigerator is an LG, less than six years old. I guess it is
pretty well insulated, both electrically and thermally.

Of course, I agree that an old fridge probably has enough leakage to
trip a GFCI given certain conditions, but I think that with newer
refrigerators that shouldn´t be an issue.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A joke
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5c3e80bc2dc215f3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 8:46 am
From: WangoTango

In article <ii95ie$1aa$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
grizzledgeezer@comcast.net says...
> > January 4 - Finally got out of the house today. Went to the
> > store to get food and on the way back I hit a damned deer
> > that ran in front of my car. Did about $3000 damage. Fucking
> > beasts should be killed. Wish the hunters had killed them all
> > last November.
>
> Deer are a kind of forest vermin that serve no useful purpose other than as
> wolf fodder.

They make really great jerky and tacos.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 11:30 am
From: Rich Grise

William Sommerwerck wrote:

>> January 4 - Finally got out of the house today. Went to the
>> store to get food and on the way back I hit a damned deer
>> that ran in front of my car. Did about $3000 damage. Fucking
>> beasts should be killed. Wish the hunters had killed them all
>> last November.
>
> Deer are a kind of forest vermin that serve no useful purpose other than
> as wolf fodder.

But they're so CYOOOOOOOOOT!

;-)
Rich

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 11:33 am
From: Rich Grise

Greegor wrote:

> WS > Deer are a kind of forest vermin that serve no
> WS > useful purpose other than as wolf fodder.
>
> Deer (venison) pot roast is good, and deer hamburger is great in
> chili.

Once, on a weekend at my brother's cabin, my nephew-in-law (husband
of my brother's daughter) brought some venison. It was good. I had
a serving of heart meat, and it was delicious, and had no grain!

It was a lot like gizzard, which I also find quite tasty, and grain-
free. :-)

Cheers!
Rich

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 12:33 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> Deer are a kind of forest vermin that serve no
>> useful purpose other than as wolf fodder.

> They make really great jerky and tacos.

How do they hold the knives and taco shells?

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 1:47 pm
From: JeffM

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>God, how I hate deer.
>
Did you once hit one with your car? Are you a gardener?
What's the deal?

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 2:05 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> >>> Deer are a kind of forest vermin that serve no
> >>> useful purpose other than as wolf fodder.
>
> >> Deer (venison) pot roast is good, and deer hamburger
> >> is great in chili.
>
> > He has, obviously, never eaten a venison steak just after
> > it has been taken off the barbie.....(c;]
>
> I was thinking in evolutionary terms. But I have nothing against brutally
> killing Bambi's mother, ripping the still-warm flesh from her bones, and
> roasting her. Die, forest vermin!
>
> I once suggested to the head of Broderbund a game called "Bambi Blasters",
> in which you kill deer with a variety of increasingly powerful weapons. He
> thought it very funny, but declined to produce it. God, how I hate deer.
>
> The "Bambi" Blu-ray is due out on 3/1. Walt Disney was an animal lover, and
> "Bambi" reflects an anti-hunting attitude -- or more precisely, a view that
> humans are responsible for the morally reprehensible things (as judged by
> Disney) that happen in the forest.
>
> The Disney film is a "cycle of life" story, a major change from the novel,
> Disney specifically asking the animators to ignore the novel and go with his
> approach. * The book (which I really ought to read) was for adults, and
> apparently had political elements which Disney discarded. (The Nazis banned
> it.)
>
> One of the criticisms levelled against the film is that it doesn't
> acknowledge the fact that some animals are carnivores. One reviewer remarked
> that the owl wouldn't have sat around talking with the other animals -- he
> would have swooped down and grabbed one of the bunnies.
>
> The bare plot of the film and book are quite similar, though.

Have you ever seen 'Bambi meets Godzilla'? :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0dpk619oTM&feature=related

Or the sequel?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9pXq1OKSMw&feature=related
--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 2:22 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> Have you ever seen 'Bambi meets Godzilla'? :)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0dpk619oTM&feature=related

> Or the sequel?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9pXq1OKSMw&feature=related

I have. It's just what the little bugger deserves...

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 2:23 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> God, how I hate deer.

> Did you once hit one with your car? Are you a gardener?
> What's the deal?

Deer are stupid, useless animals. That's why I hate them.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 2:32 pm
From: "Artemus"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iia15d$hck$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> >> God, how I hate deer.
>
> > Did you once hit one with your car? Are you a gardener?
> > What's the deal?
>
> Deer are stupid, useless animals. That's why I hate them.
>
>
It seems you've never tasted them. I love venison.
Art

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pet hates ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e7925b5c2233e9ec?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 8:47 am
From: Justine Thyme

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 00:02:44 -0800, Smitty Two
<prestwhich@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Nobody here in "Cal-ee-fonia", as our recently departed
> Governator/Gropenator called it, calls them "interstates", even though
> they are, in fact, interstate highways. Some folks back east may call
> them that, though I'm not sure (I've heard them referred to as
> "turnpikes" in some places). One wonders whether some LA residents even
> know what an "interstate" is ...
>
The term "turnpike" is usually reserved for toll roads.

[snip]

>BTW, everyone I know in LA doesn't use numbers at all, but names that
>are meaningless to outsiders even if they have a map: "Ventura freeway,"
>"Hollywood freeway," "Pasadena freeway," etc.

Don't forget the LA to Canada freeway which is what you take to get to
Flintridge. At least that's what the sign says: LA CANADA-FLINTRIDGE.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 3:39 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

N_Cook wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:4uadnTJc6LyvmdrQnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >
> > N_Cook wrote:
> > >
> > > Ron D. <ron.dozier@gmail.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3704567b-3469-47f5-af0f-4251da36f1d8@17g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> > > > heat sink goop
> > > >
> > > > cars with both metric and english fasteners
> > > >
> > > > bristol spline srews
> > >
> > > Could you describe a "bristol spline screw" Google-images no help other
> than
> > > they are used on 30KV rated relays
> >
> >
> > Bristol was used in electronic equipment build by the US during
> > W.W.-II.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrench, almost half way down the page.
> >
> > http://www.bristolwrench.com/ still makes them.
> >
> > http://www.bristolwrench.com/spline.pdf
> >
> > They are availible from a lot of industrial tool dealers.
> >
> > A lot of people called them 'Spline Wrenches' instead of Bristol
> > Wrenches.
>
> There is a UK tool supplier called Britool confusingly
>
> Never realised there was so many spline types, Pentalobe etc
>
> Protruding obstacle variants ? pipped is a much more succinct term

Bristol has mostly been replaced by Torx.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a band-aid on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Intels 1 billion mistake
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6d28be07e85250d5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 9:08 am
From: bob urz

http://mbtmag.com/Content.aspx?id=1937

bob

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 10:26 am
From: "circuit"

Nobody said being a nerd would be easy.....

"bob urz" <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
news:ii9em9$h2t$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> http://mbtmag.com/Content.aspx?id=1937
>
> bob

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 10:36 am
From: "Charlie"

"bob urz" <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in message
news:ii9em9$h2t$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> http://mbtmag.com/Content.aspx?id=1937
>
> bob

The big mistake was not producing a flaw.
The big mistake was not doing adequate testing to discover it before
release.

Charlie

==============================================================================
TOPIC: motherboard pwr_on pins resistance?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/65d60dc1b24d5107?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 10:39 am
From: Paul

John Keiser wrote:
> Paul,
> If I may impose on your knowledge of PSUs, can you help me with an earlier
> post?
>
> I have a Acer Verition M460 [AMI BIOS R01-C3] with WindowsXP SP3.
> I had the CMOS set to wake and boot every morning. Worked fine for several
> years.
> Then intermittent, now not at all.
> In the morning the power light is on and the NIC light is sometimes on.
> Screen has no info and the PC has stopped short of actually booting [so
> Event Viewer has no info]. I simply hold the power button 3 seconds and
> repower up. Always successful.
> Time/date is accurate but I changed the CMOS battery and re-enabled the RTC
> alarm.
> I also changed the PSU.
> No joy.
> Obviously not a major issue but I am curious, any idea why this is
> happening?
> Thank you.
>

When I google on Veriton M460, I'm seeing a higher than normal number of
problems there.

http://forums.techguy.org/virus-other-malware-removal/798570-bsod-page-error-malware-related.html

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?p=1418793

Things you'd need to list in your query:

1) Was the system in S3 suspend to RAM, or S4 Hibernate, or just shutdown from the menu ?
If you were starting up in the morning from S3, then the RAM could have an issue.
(I have one machine here, that won't reliably start from S3 the next day. The RAM
is good, so that's a motherboard problem. The motherboard can't retail memory contents
overnight.)

If S4, then perhaps the drive isn't "becoming ready" within the timeout interval.
If you're starting from a complete shutdown, that would be about the same scenario
as Hibernate. Does the hard drive diagnostic that you can download for it, pass or not ?
Seagate and Western Digital offer diagnostic programs. (Make sure you've
burned the recovery media for your PC, in case the hard drive needs to be
replaced at some point. Backups to an external hard drive would be nice as well.)

2) Have you tested with some other boot scenario ? For example, set the wake up time,
do a shutdown from the Windows menu. Then, plug a floppy diskette with a copy of
memtest86+ on it, into the floppy drive. When the system starts the next time, as
long as the floppy is first in the boot order, it'll boot from the floppy. The purpose
of this kind of test, is to try to remove the hard drive from the picture. Even better,
would be to unplug the hard drive data cable (so the system can't get hung up,
while probing the hard drive).

http://www.memtest.org (scroll half way down, get the download, use the program
to prepare a boot floppy. After prep, the floppy cannot
be listed - there is no conventional file system on it.)

Have you done a visual inspection of the motherboard recently ? Are there any
bulging or leaking capacitors on the motherboard ?

http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/kt3.html

If I could see some root cause, listed in the postings I can see for Veriton M460,
that would give a better direction to look in. It sounds like it could be
a motherboard issue, but I suspect the machine may have been sold, with more
than one motherboard type installed in it. (Which means, some versions of
the machine might have more problems than others, but the users wouldn't
list the motherboard details for us to know.)

You eliminated the power supply, so that's a start. They're a high runner, in
terms of causing problems.

Failing power supplies, also give little hints about their health. For example,
you may hear a muffled "sizzling" sound at startup. Or see a small puff of smoke
go out the back of the machine at startup. Those are signs of failing (leaking)
capacitors inside the supply. Another indicator I use for my personal machines,
is when I notice a fixed speed 12V fan, is beginning to go "off pitch" on its
fan sound. That can be an indicator of impending failure. It implies the
moment to moment drift of the 12V rail voltage, is larger than it used to
be. I used that to predict the impending failure of my very first supply.
That supply still "works" today, but the output voltage on the 12V rail
drops to 7V, with even a single 0.1 amp cooling fan connected to it.
So now, the supply is as "weak" as is physically possible. It puts out
less power, than a digital camera adapter :-) But technically, the power
supply still works, as under no load, all voltages are present and it's
cooling fan (internal one) still spins. It just can't take any load.
And internally, all the caps are flat, bright and shiny.

Not every failure condition has visual symptoms - but when offered a
visual symptom, go with it.

Paul

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 1:25 pm
From: "John Keiser"

The PC is turned off at night, not suspended or hibernated.

I always have current, redundant backups so no problem testing the HD.

No floppy so I'll try disconecting the HD or using a bootable CD and see
where it goes with another boot scenario.

I have replaced bad caps many times in other electronics and even have an
ESR meter. No visible signs on the MB.

MB is Gigabyte.

I appreciate that you took the time to respond and the advice. Thank you

"Paul" <nospam@needed.com> wrote in message
news:ii9k0p$rc1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> John Keiser wrote:
>> Paul,
>> If I may impose on your knowledge of PSUs, can you help me with an
>> earlier post?
>>
>> I have a Acer Verition M460 [AMI BIOS R01-C3] with WindowsXP SP3.
>> I had the CMOS set to wake and boot every morning. Worked fine for
>> several years.
>> Then intermittent, now not at all.
>> In the morning the power light is on and the NIC light is sometimes on.
>> Screen has no info and the PC has stopped short of actually booting [so
>> Event Viewer has no info]. I simply hold the power button 3 seconds and
>> repower up. Always successful.
>> Time/date is accurate but I changed the CMOS battery and re-enabled the
>> RTC
>> alarm.
>> I also changed the PSU.
>> No joy.
>> Obviously not a major issue but I am curious, any idea why this is
>> happening?
>> Thank you.
>>
>
> When I google on Veriton M460, I'm seeing a higher than normal number of
> problems there.
>
> http://forums.techguy.org/virus-other-malware-removal/798570-bsod-page-error-malware-related.html
>
> http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?p=1418793
>
> Things you'd need to list in your query:
>
> 1) Was the system in S3 suspend to RAM, or S4 Hibernate, or just shutdown
> from the menu ?
> If you were starting up in the morning from S3, then the RAM could have
> an issue.
> (I have one machine here, that won't reliably start from S3 the next
> day. The RAM
> is good, so that's a motherboard problem. The motherboard can't retail
> memory contents
> overnight.)
>
> If S4, then perhaps the drive isn't "becoming ready" within the timeout
> interval.
> If you're starting from a complete shutdown, that would be about the
> same scenario
> as Hibernate. Does the hard drive diagnostic that you can download for
> it, pass or not ?
> Seagate and Western Digital offer diagnostic programs. (Make sure
> you've
> burned the recovery media for your PC, in case the hard drive needs to
> be
> replaced at some point. Backups to an external hard drive would be nice
> as well.)
>
> 2) Have you tested with some other boot scenario ? For example, set the
> wake up time,
> do a shutdown from the Windows menu. Then, plug a floppy diskette with
> a copy of
> memtest86+ on it, into the floppy drive. When the system starts the
> next time, as
> long as the floppy is first in the boot order, it'll boot from the
> floppy. The purpose
> of this kind of test, is to try to remove the hard drive from the
> picture. Even better,
> would be to unplug the hard drive data cable (so the system can't get
> hung up,
> while probing the hard drive).
>
> http://www.memtest.org (scroll half way down, get the download,
> use the program
> to prepare a boot floppy. After prep, the
> floppy cannot
> be listed - there is no conventional file
> system on it.)
>
> Have you done a visual inspection of the motherboard recently ? Are there
> any
> bulging or leaking capacitors on the motherboard ?
>
> http://www.badcaps.net/images/caps/kt7/kt3.html
>
> If I could see some root cause, listed in the postings I can see for
> Veriton M460,
> that would give a better direction to look in. It sounds like it could be
> a motherboard issue, but I suspect the machine may have been sold, with
> more
> than one motherboard type installed in it. (Which means, some versions of
> the machine might have more problems than others, but the users wouldn't
> list the motherboard details for us to know.)
>
> You eliminated the power supply, so that's a start. They're a high runner,
> in
> terms of causing problems.
>
> Failing power supplies, also give little hints about their health. For
> example,
> you may hear a muffled "sizzling" sound at startup. Or see a small puff of
> smoke
> go out the back of the machine at startup. Those are signs of failing
> (leaking)
> capacitors inside the supply. Another indicator I use for my personal
> machines,
> is when I notice a fixed speed 12V fan, is beginning to go "off pitch" on
> its
> fan sound. That can be an indicator of impending failure. It implies the
> moment to moment drift of the 12V rail voltage, is larger than it used to
> be. I used that to predict the impending failure of my very first supply.
> That supply still "works" today, but the output voltage on the 12V rail
> drops to 7V, with even a single 0.1 amp cooling fan connected to it.
> So now, the supply is as "weak" as is physically possible. It puts out
> less power, than a digital camera adapter :-) But technically, the power
> supply still works, as under no load, all voltages are present and it's
> cooling fan (internal one) still spins. It just can't take any load.
> And internally, all the caps are flat, bright and shiny.
>
> Not every failure condition has visual symptoms - but when offered a
> visual symptom, go with it.
>
> Paul

==============================================================================
TOPIC: sony cassette belt kits
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ecbb7e3edf61614c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 1 2011 10:49 am
From: Sofa Slug

On 2/1/2011 7:57 AM, GUY wrote:
>
> I have 2 tape decks,tcw e635 and a tcwr 545,can any body tell me where I
> can buy belt kits
>
>

http://www.studiosoundelectronics.com/cassette.htm

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