sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Found: more datasheets (ftp). - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0d00193000a822b1?hl=en
* Strangely marked BUZ Mosfet - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/aff797bedba2c908?hl=en
* How-To: Common Cause Of Flat Panel PS Failure - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ff5b6703ec041dcc?hl=en
* Black and While programs on Color Tv - 9 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4832decd7595bba7?hl=en
* free shipping paypal payment wholesale CLOTHING jacket T-shirt long sleeve
suit and hoody(Franklin Marshall,Monclereiderdown,nike,adidas,a&f,d&g,ed
harday,bape,bbc,lv,gucci,armani,polo, poul smith and so on)/http://www.24hours-
online.com/ - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/82e191dc39d11251?hl=en
* Toshiba TV won't turn on after power outage - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/924e0474b11afca2?hl=en
* HDTV has no sound - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3a7aee93765769fb?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Found: more datasheets (ftp).
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/0d00193000a822b1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 10:55 am
From: "Oppie"

try using the google translater polish to english.
Aplikacje => Applications

"Rich Grise" <richg@example.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:ini8ef$9n3$1@dont-email.me...
> John Ferrell wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 14:42:42 +0100, "Ian Field"
>>
>>>ftp://ftp.elektroda.net/pub/
>>>
>> It looks very interesting but I don't believe it will let me in
>> without a password.
>
> I can open the page with Seamonkey, but what do these words mean?
>
> Up to higher level directory
> Directory: Aplikacje 08/09/2008 12:00:00
> AM
> Directory: Karty katalogowe 03/27/2006 12:00:00
> AM
> Directory: KiCADPL 01/07/2011 04:55:00
> PM
> Directory: Zasilacze AT i ATX 03/27/2006 12:00:00
> AM
> File: naglowek_230x325.tif 16864 KB 11/09/2009 12:00:00
> AM
>
> Thanks,
> Rich
>
>

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 4:19 pm
From: ehsjr

Ian Field wrote:
> ftp://ftp.elektroda.net/pub/
>
>

Nice.

Thanks,
Ed

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 5:31 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"John Ferrell" <jferrell13@triad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8r0pp69aghmidm1j26t8nb805tusudtmb7@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2011 14:42:42 +0100, "Ian Field"
> <gangprobing.alien@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>ftp://ftp.elektroda.net/pub/
>>
> It looks very interesting but I don't believe it will let me in
> without a password.
> John Ferrell W8CCW

I didn't find any passwords or anything required. Just keep following the
blue links deeper into the directory trees until you get down to
recognisable component types. The individual pdf's then download just fine.

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Strangely marked BUZ Mosfet
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/aff797bedba2c908?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 12:25 pm
From: "Gareth Magennis"

"Meat Plow" <mhywattt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2011.04.06.17.34.52@lmao.lol.lol...
> On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 15:45:02 +0100, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>
>> p.s. it has been repaired at a place I know about that is well known for
>> dodgy repairs, and the soldering is absolutely shocking.
>
> Why not just replace all 4 with known pairs? TT manufactures
> a bunch of different audio mosfet devices
> http://www.semelab.com/magnatec/alfet.shtml
>
>
>
> --
> Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

Yes, that is my preferred option, and I could get them from Farnell
tomorrow.
However, that would cost me about £50 for the four, so perhaps £60 to the
customer, which is getting on for $100.

If there is any doubt what these oddly marked devices actually are I will do
just that.

Cheers,

Gareth.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 12:39 pm
From: "Gareth Magennis"

Ah, I see now you meant alternatives.

Not really my policy I'm afraid. If it blew up again I wouldn't have a leg
to stand on.

Cheers,

Gareth.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 12:53 pm
From: "Ian Field"

"Gareth Magennis" <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:5LmdnZnaf6KG4gHQnZ2dnUVZ8kmdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
> news:903clgFtn9U1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Gareth Magennis is a FUCKING MORON "
>>>
>>>>> I have a Trace Elliot 300W bass amp here
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ** I suppose you whole life is over if you tell us the fucking model
>>>> number ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> that uses 2 pairs of BUZ901/906 mosfets. All output devices have been
>>>>> resoldered or replaced at some point, and the amp now contains 2 x
>>>>> BUZ901 (SML) and 2 marked STUD1P.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ** The device is labelled " STUPID " ???
>>>>
>>>> April 1st has gone you know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> One BUZ901 is blown,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ** I suppose your whole life depends of not telling us what YOU mean
>>>> by the word "blown" ??
>>>>
>>>> Lateral MOSFETS fail ( if they fail) in a unique way - not like any
>>>> other power devices.
>>>>
>>>> WHAT IS IT ???
>>>>
>>>
>>> You do make me laugh, Phil.
>>
>>
>> ** You make everybody puke.
>>
>> You colossal TURD !!
>>
>>
>>> If it matters,
>>
>> ** Of COURSE it fucking matters !!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>> it is a 7215 combo, i.e. a GP7 300 Watt SM series,
>>
>>
>> ** So now folk can look up the thing in their files -
>>
>> YOU FUCKING TENTH WIT !!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>
>>> But the question is only about the markings on the output devices, and
>>> whether this STUD1P device is the original Trace part or some numpty
>>> repairman has retrofitted a dodgy part he manufactured himself in his
>>> kitchen of took it out of a Studiomaster or summat.
>>
>>
>> ** Who fucking cares ?
>>
>> If you do not know how to test it - you are an absolute ASS.
>>
>> Now - answer my fucking QUESTION !!
>>
>> Go back - read my posts ten times AND you just might see there IS
>> one.
>>
>> You steaming great pommy FUCKWIT !!
>>
>>
>>
>> .... Phil
>>
>>
>
>
>
> I've already told you I tested the MOSFETS with a PEAK component analyser.

Philthy was raised by dingoes.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 1:44 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Ian Field wrote:
>
> "Gareth Magennis" <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
> news:5LmdnZnaf6KG4gHQnZ2dnUVZ8kmdnZ2d@bt.com...
> >
> > "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
> > news:903clgFtn9U1@mid.individual.net...
> >> "Gareth Magennis is a FUCKING MORON "
> >>>
> >>>>> I have a Trace Elliot 300W bass amp here
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ** I suppose you whole life is over if you tell us the fucking model
> >>>> number ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> that uses 2 pairs of BUZ901/906 mosfets. All output devices have been
> >>>>> resoldered or replaced at some point, and the amp now contains 2 x
> >>>>> BUZ901 (SML) and 2 marked STUD1P.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ** The device is labelled " STUPID " ???
> >>>>
> >>>> April 1st has gone you know.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> One BUZ901 is blown,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ** I suppose your whole life depends of not telling us what YOU mean
> >>>> by the word "blown" ??
> >>>>
> >>>> Lateral MOSFETS fail ( if they fail) in a unique way - not like any
> >>>> other power devices.
> >>>>
> >>>> WHAT IS IT ???
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> You do make me laugh, Phil.
> >>
> >>
> >> ** You make everybody puke.
> >>
> >> You colossal TURD !!
> >>
> >>
> >>> If it matters,
> >>
> >> ** Of COURSE it fucking matters !!!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >>> it is a 7215 combo, i.e. a GP7 300 Watt SM series,
> >>
> >>
> >> ** So now folk can look up the thing in their files -
> >>
> >> YOU FUCKING TENTH WIT !!!!!!!!!!!
> >>
> >>
> >>> But the question is only about the markings on the output devices, and
> >>> whether this STUD1P device is the original Trace part or some numpty
> >>> repairman has retrofitted a dodgy part he manufactured himself in his
> >>> kitchen of took it out of a Studiomaster or summat.
> >>
> >>
> >> ** Who fucking cares ?
> >>
> >> If you do not know how to test it - you are an absolute ASS.
> >>
> >> Now - answer my fucking QUESTION !!
> >>
> >> Go back - read my posts ten times AND you just might see there IS
> >> one.
> >>
> >> You steaming great pommy FUCKWIT !!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> .... Phil
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > I've already told you I tested the MOSFETS with a PEAK component analyser.
>
> Philthy was raised by dingoes.

Gay dingoes.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 1:50 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 20:25:57 +0100, Gareth Magennis wrote:

> "Meat Plow" <mhywattt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2011.04.06.17.34.52@lmao.lol.lol...
>> On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 15:45:02 +0100, Gareth Magennis wrote:
>>
>>> p.s. it has been repaired at a place I know about that is well known
>>> for dodgy repairs, and the soldering is absolutely shocking.
>>
>> Why not just replace all 4 with known pairs? TT manufactures a bunch of
>> different audio mosfet devices
>> http://www.semelab.com/magnatec/alfet.shtml
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse
>
>
>
>
> Yes, that is my preferred option, and I could get them from Farnell
> tomorrow.
> However, that would cost me about £50 for the four, so perhaps £60 to
> the customer, which is getting on for $100.
>
>
> If there is any doubt what these oddly marked devices actually are I
> will do just that.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Gareth.

$100 isn't bad for a slayed output stage. Especially on previously bodged
repairs. For that combo and most others including vintage my minimum fee
is $100 before parts. I do more work on vintage than anything. People
drag in these Silvertone, Airline, Ampeg, Gibson etc.. from the late
1950's/60's all the time. If it's a small combo like a GA series
Discovery,Maestro,Explorer etc...I'll slide the $100 minimum fee unless
it needs a restoration. Last Silvertone 50 watt head I restored I charged
$200 labor and the customer never batted an eyelid.

I'd replace all 4 of those devices and take a hard look at the whole thing
probably before I ordered parts.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 7:56 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Gareth Magennis"

>
> If there is any doubt what these oddly marked devices actually are I will
> do just that.

** What does your PEAK say about the pin out and the Gate threshold
voltage ?

Should be Source on the case and about 0.5 to 1.0 volts.

.... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How-To: Common Cause Of Flat Panel PS Failure
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/ff5b6703ec041dcc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 1:31 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Meat Plow wrote:
>
> On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 22:46:50 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> > Meat Plow wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:43:52 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >>
> >> > Bob Villa wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Apr 4, 6:31 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > Bob Villa wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > On Apr 1, 6:51 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
> >> >> > > <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> >> > > > Bob Villa wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > > On Mar 31, 6:20 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
> >> >> > > > > <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > > > > Hey Mike when can I expect this PSU to fail...a few
> >> >> > > > > > > years from now? Thanks for your gracious responses.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > > > When can you post a real question?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > > Alas, the mastertech doesn't understand sarcasm.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > You can't even do sarcasm well, and I'm not being
> >> >> > > > sarcastic.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > > --
> >> >> > > > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it,
> >> >> > > > because it's Teflon coated.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > > The only thing you do well...other than being a critic...is
> >> >> > > please yourself.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Yawn. I built KU band communications equiment that is aboard
> >> >> > the
> >> >> > ISS, and all you do is whine.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because
> >> >> > it's Teflon coated.
> >> >>
> >> >> Holy Crap! I must have cut you deep...now you need to brag. I am so
> >> >> impressed...especially how you belittle people instead of helping
> >> >> them.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Sigh. You don't want help. You were bragging about your 'fix'.
> >> > I
> >> > have helped thousands of people over the last 45 years, but only
> >> > those that wanted help.
> >>
> >> Villa is a troll. He trolls alt.home.repair with the same bullshit.
> >> Probably a few others too.
> >
> >
> > He's not even a decent troll.
>
> I only used "troll" because it was the closest thing to what he does I
> could think of. I think the whole story was made up.

No, he is just a low grade troll. He tried to email me more of his
childish insults, but they bounced because he isn't white listed.

If he really did replace the caps, he would have used lead free
plumbing solder with 'Ruby flux', and WD40 to wet the mess.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 3:01 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 16:31:41 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> Meat Plow wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 22:46:50 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>
>> > Meat Plow wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:43:52 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Bob Villa wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Apr 4, 6:31 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> >> >> <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >> >> > Bob Villa wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > On Apr 1, 6:51 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> >> >> > > <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >> >> > > > Bob Villa wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > > > On Mar 31, 6:20 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> >> >> > > > > <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > > > > > Hey Mike when can I expect this PSU to fail...a few
>> >> >> > > > > > > years from now? Thanks for your gracious responses.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > > > > When can you post a real question?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > > > Alas, the mastertech doesn't understand sarcasm.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > > You can't even do sarcasm well, and I'm not being
>> >> >> > > > sarcastic.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > > --
>> >> >> > > > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it,
>> >> >> > > > because it's Teflon coated.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > > The only thing you do well...other than being a critic...is
>> >> >> > > please yourself.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Yawn. I built KU band communications equiment that is
>> >> >> > aboard the
>> >> >> > ISS, and all you do is whine.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > --
>> >> >> > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it,
>> >> >> > because it's Teflon coated.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Holy Crap! I must have cut you deep...now you need to brag. I am
>> >> >> so impressed...especially how you belittle people instead of
>> >> >> helping them.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Sigh. You don't want help. You were bragging about your
>> >> > 'fix'. I
>> >> > have helped thousands of people over the last 45 years, but only
>> >> > those that wanted help.
>> >>
>> >> Villa is a troll. He trolls alt.home.repair with the same bullshit.
>> >> Probably a few others too.
>> >
>> >
>> > He's not even a decent troll.
>>
>> I only used "troll" because it was the closest thing to what he does I
>> could think of. I think the whole story was made up.
>
>
> No, he is just a low grade troll. He tried to email me more of his
> childish insults, but they bounced because he isn't white listed.

LOL Luzer.

> If he really did replace the caps, he would have used lead free
> plumbing solder with 'Ruby flux', and WD40 to wet the mess.

<nods>

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 3:13 pm
From: Bob Villa

On Apr 6, 3:31 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Meat Plow wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 22:46:50 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> > > Meat Plow wrote:
>
> > >> On Tue, 05 Apr 2011 12:43:52 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> > >> > Bob Villa wrote:
>
> > >> >> On Apr 4, 6:31 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >> > Bob Villa wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > On Apr 1, 6:51 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
> > >> >> > > <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >> >> > > > Bob Villa wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > > > On Mar 31, 6:20 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
> > >> >> > > > > <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > >> >> > > > > > > Hey Mike when can I expect this PSU to fail...a few
> > >> >> > > > > > > years from now? Thanks for your gracious responses.
>
> > >> >> > > > > >    When can you post a real question?
>
> > >> >> > > > > Alas, the mastertech doesn't understand sarcasm.
>
> > >> >> > > >    You can't even do sarcasm well, and I'm not being
> > >> >> > > >    sarcastic.
>
> > >> >> > > > --
> > >> >> > > > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it,
> > >> >> > > > because it's Teflon coated.
>
> > >> >> > > The only thing you do well...other than being a critic...is
> > >> >> > > please yourself.
>
> > >> >> >    Yawn.  I built KU band communications equiment that is aboard
> > >> >> >    the
> > >> >> > ISS, and all you do is whine.
>
> > >> >> > --
> > >> >> > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid on it, because
> > >> >> > it's Teflon coated.
>
> > >> >> Holy Crap! I must have cut you deep...now you need to brag. I am so
> > >> >> impressed...especially how you belittle people instead of helping
> > >> >> them.
>
> > >> >    Sigh.  You don't want help.  You were bragging about your 'fix'.
> > >> >    I
> > >> > have helped thousands of people over the last 45 years, but only
> > >> > those that wanted help.
>
> > >> Villa is a troll. He trolls alt.home.repair with the same bullshit.
> > >> Probably a few others too.
>
> > >    He's not even a decent troll.
>
> > I only used "troll" because it was the closest thing to what he does I
> > could think of. I think the whole story was made up.
>
>    No, he is just a low grade troll.  He tried to email me more of his
> childish insults, but they bounced because he isn't white listed.
>
>   If he really did replace the caps, he would have used lead free
> plumbing solder with 'Ruby flux', and WD40 to wet the mess.
>
> --
>I can't fix stupid. I can't even put a Band-Aid™ on myself, because I'm
> Teflon coated.

Who is childish here? And you know there were insults...but you didn't
see them?
And your sig is much improved!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Black and While programs on Color Tv
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4832decd7595bba7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 1:39 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > Sigh. The NTSC was created for B&W television.
>
> Acronyms are always changing, for example:
>
> GSM (French for mobile system group) -> Global System for Mobiles.
> DVD (Digital Video Disk) -> Digital Versatile Disk

NTSC is still 'National Television Standards Committee' which was
formed to chose the best available technology from various proposed
systems. The name never had anything to do with color except for the
ignorant to make fun of the US TV standards, but I don't expect you to
listen to the truth. 'never the same color' was never a real acronym.
If it were, PAL would be 'Pathetic Analretentive Liars'.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 1:40 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Ian Field wrote:
>
> "Geoffrey S. Mendelson" <gsm@mendelson.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnipospk.u4u.gsm@cable.mendelson.com...
> > Ian Field wrote:
> >> Flicker is due to the 50Hz field rate, its only noticeable if you're used
> >> to
> >> 60Hz field rate.
> >
> > Which really is a design flaw, there was nothing that required it, and a
> > 60Hz
> > rate screen is not really a problem with 50Hz lighting.
> >
> > The need to be synced to the power line frequency was needed in the 1930's
> > when the 405 line system was developed due to arc lights being used for
> > studio lighting. By the time PAL was developed (early 1960's) arc lights
> > were long gone.
> >
> > It was just done to be incompatible with the US.
>
> You can get tablets for that.

Lobotomies work better, and only need to be done, once. :(

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 1:41 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Bruce Esquibel wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Neither. The color burst has to be turned off for B&W programming,
> > so the color killer circuit doesn't create artifacts. Stations used to
> > be very careful about this, but over the years some just don't bother
> > anymore.
>
> Yeah but if they left the color burst on, it would present as a colored snow
> all through the picture.
>
> The OP is talking about a dominance of green, which I've seen too on
> some B&W telecasts. I've also seen it there up to a commercial break, then
> the next segment is normal.
>
> I always figured it was something at the station rather than the print they
> were using. Some peice of equipment in the chain that normalizes color or
> something which needs to be turned off or bypassed for B&W shows.

That would depend on the color demodulator used in the TV. A green
tint was a common problem in early TVs when the color killer failed, or
the burst was left on.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid� on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 1:52 pm
From: "Ian Field"

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ONSdnZZRI6i5TQHQnZ2dnUVZ_hWdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> Bruce Esquibel wrote:
>>
>> Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Neither. The color burst has to be turned off for B&W programming,
>> > so the color killer circuit doesn't create artifacts. Stations used to
>> > be very careful about this, but over the years some just don't bother
>> > anymore.
>>
>> Yeah but if they left the color burst on, it would present as a colored
>> snow
>> all through the picture.
>>
>> The OP is talking about a dominance of green, which I've seen too on
>> some B&W telecasts. I've also seen it there up to a commercial break,
>> then
>> the next segment is normal.
>>
>> I always figured it was something at the station rather than the print
>> they
>> were using. Some peice of equipment in the chain that normalizes color or
>> something which needs to be turned off or bypassed for B&W shows.
>
>
> That would depend on the color demodulator used in the TV. A green
> tint was a common problem in early TVs when the color killer failed, or
> the burst was left on.

For those who want to delve into the theory its worth remembering that to
conserve bandwidth, the green signal is not included in the chroma carrier -
its reconstituted by subtracting the sum of the red & blue signals from the
luma to obtain a value for green.

The single most important feature being that the luma signal was not
modified so it maintained compatibility with B&W sets.

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 4:45 pm
From: tlbs

On Wednesday, April 6, 2011 2:39:35 PM UTC-6, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> NTSC is still 'National Television Standards Committee' which was
> formed to chose the best available technology from various proposed
> systems. The name never had anything to do with color except for the
> ignorant to make fun of the US TV standards, but I don't expect you to
> listen to the truth. 'never the same color' was never a real acronym.
> If it were, PAL would be 'Pathetic Analretentive Liars'.
>

In joking, I always referred to PAL as, "Phase Always Loose" --
NTSC was, "Never True; Sh**ty Color".
There was one for SECAM, but I can't remember what it was.

Tom P.
near Albuquerque

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 5:02 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> There was one for SECAM, but I can't remember what it was.

"Stupid Engineering Crap (Also Merde)"

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 6:49 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Apr 5, 11:11 am, John Robertson <s...@flippers.com> wrote:
> William Sommerwerck wrote:
> >> How come some of the old B&W programs on the "Oldies Channel"
> >> (THIS-TV) are black and white, while others are tinted, usually black
> >> and greenish white? Yes, the color programs are accurately colored,
> >> so it's not that the TV colors are off, and some B&W programs are
> >> actually correct. Is this in the film or is the tv transmitter wrong?
>
> > Filmed B&W programs are often transferred with a color camera or telecine
> > and transmitted as a color signal. The transfer equipment might not be set
> > up correctly.
>
> > It's also possible your TV's tracking is off, but you say some B&W programs
> > look okay, so that's not likely.
>
> > I occasionally watch this, and haven't noticed any unusual color casts in
> > B&W shows ("Bat Masterson", "Sea Hunt", etc).
>
> > I've noticed something similar on Blu-rays, both color and B&W. Scenes
> > appearing in the supplemental material have a different color balance or
> > cast, even though they're presumably derived from the same source. "North by
> > Northwest" and "Young Frankenstein" are good examples.
>
> Also an artifact of NTSC - Never The Same Colour -
>
> John :-#)#
>
> --
>     (Please post followups or tech enquiries to the newsgroup)
>   John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
>   Call (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
>                      www.flippers.com
>        "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

That was NTSC issue fixed in the '70s.

We were watching TCM last Sunday when they were running fragments
(because that's all that remains) of silent B/W movies some of which
were 'tinted' with the blueish or brownish look. They call it 'art'. I
call it crap but it was not a burst phase error. If there is no chroma
(the definition of B/W) the phase wouldn't mean a thing. The OP says
all other color is normal (though I have seen some TV's that were
dreadful when the owner thought it was great.) so perhaps he found one
of these tinted B/W films.

I can say the Samsung DLP and all the LCDs we have do excellent B/W.

G²

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 7:06 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Apr 5, 2:17 pm, "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:infp1h$k9v$1@dont-email.me...
>
> >> Also an artifact of NTSC -- Never The Same Colour
>
> > Not true. NTSC is neither inherently inaccurate or unstable.
>
> The UK PAL (Phase Alternate Line) inverts the subcarrier phase on alternate
> lines so phase distortion during transmission cancells itself out - NTSC
> doesn't and is inherently prone to drift, hence it was dubbed; Never Twice
> the Same Colour.

That NTSC hue issue was fixed in the '70s and never showed up again. I
know 'Hue' controls that were never touched because it wasn't a
problem. What DID drift was SCH phase but this does not show up as a
color hue error. It shows up as small horizontal shifts (up to 180 nS)
at edit points. Early Sony machines were bad on this score but later
models corrected it. The RCA TR-800 was hideous on this issue. Set it
at 12 noon and you better check it by 12:30 and likely need to adjust
it by 1 pm. RCA never fixed it but the engineers at Action Video in
Hollywood sorted it out. Set it on Jan 1 and you might want to check
it on the 4th of July. Ironically, the chip used to fix the RCA
machine was invented at RCA.

> Aparently the US military incorporated a swinging phase error in their GPS
> satelites to stop all and sundry using it without the decoding key - it was
> a British engineer that cracked it using a technique based on PAL
> technology.

G²

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 7:10 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Apr 6, 6:45 am, "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "isw" <i...@witzend.com> wrote in message
>
> news:isw-4E35A7.20165205042011@[216.168.3.50]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article <KFLmp.2976$9h6.2...@newsfe02.ams2>,
> > "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>news:infp1h$k9v$1@dont-email.me...
> >> >> Also an artifact of NTSC -- Never The Same Colour
>
> >> > Not true. NTSC is neither inherently inaccurate or unstable.
>
> >> The UK PAL (Phase Alternate Line) inverts the subcarrier phase on
> >> alternate
> >> lines so phase distortion during transmission cancells itself out - NTSC
> >> doesn't and is inherently prone to drift, hence it was dubbed; Never
> >> Twice
> >> the Same Colour.
>
> > But they traded color drift for high-brightness ficker; not necessarily
> > a good choice, since the early color drift of NTSC, being due to
> > equipment instabilities, was soon fixed by better gear, while PAL's
> > flicker problem, having been designed in, persisted.
>
> Flicker is due to the 50Hz field rate, its only noticeable if you're used to
> 60Hz field rate.

I agree you do get used to the 50 Hz flicker. I've worked with PAL in
Hollywood for 17 years.

G²

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TOPIC: Toshiba TV won't turn on after power outage
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/924e0474b11afca2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 7:39 pm
From: spamtrap1888

The weather was beautiful all day -- just the typical Pacific Gas and
Electric service interruption, so it's hard to figure how it could
have been zapped with a surge. Something squeals when the set is
plugged into the power strip, but that's the only response.

Any ideas where to start?

Is there likely to be a reset button or blown fuse? It's a Toshiba
27AF43, if that's any help.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 9:22 pm
From: Sylvia Else

On 7/04/2011 12:39 PM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
> The weather was beautiful all day -- just the typical Pacific Gas and
> Electric service interruption, so it's hard to figure how it could
> have been zapped with a surge. Something squeals when the set is
> plugged into the power strip, but that's the only response.
>
> Any ideas where to start?
>
> Is there likely to be a reset button or blown fuse? It's a Toshiba
> 27AF43, if that's any help.

Can't help regarding repairing it, but you could try to find out from
Pacific Gas and Electric why the interruption occurred. Surges don't
necessarily come from lightening. For example having a high voltage
cable break and land on a lower voltage cable could cause one.

Whether you'd have any redress against the power company if it turns out
there was a surge would depend on your jurisdiction.

Sylvia.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HDTV has no sound
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3a7aee93765769fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 6 2011 11:26 pm
From: whit3rd

On Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:12:50 PM UTC-7, vjp...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote:
> [no sound on HDTV] . I am
> looking at this $80 TV that has worked for about 18 months and am trying to
> figure if it is worth fixing.

If it has stereo sound, one bad capacitor wouldn't take out both channels.
And, if there are audio inputs (like for a DVD input), you can try
an external sound source to see if the amplifiers and speakers are OK.

Firstly, you have to exercise the problem, see what part of the block
diagram the fault is in...

Second, you have to inspect the hardware and determine which components
are in which block. If there's a melted thingummy and you can see the crater
where it lost its smoke, things get easier.

Then, with about twenty minutes of work into the job, you think about 'worth'
issues.

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