sci.electronics.repair - 18 new messages in 10 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What happened to my hard drive?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/5638540b7e458b4e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 5:10 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Wed, 18 May 2011 11:14:15 -0700 (PDT), mike
<mlightner@survivormail.com> wrote:

>Yeah, it is kind of old, the S.M.A.R.T. info says it's beyond it's
>useful life, and has been that way since I got it about 5 years ago -

What kills drives is turning them on and off repeatedly. I have
machines where the drive is running 24x7, and they last many years. I
have an ancient Conner 1GB 1060S drive running in my SCO Unix 3.2v4.2
server since about 1985 without difficulties.

>( model # is ST340810A ).

I have a pile of those. They tend to have a short lifetime. I have
to dive into the paperwork to check the typical failure mode.

>Or XP setup didn't recognize it, because it did show up correctly and
>quickly on the startup screen as the
>system booted

OK. The BIOS recognizes the drive, but Windoze does not. There's
a chance that the drive can be revived if you wipe it clean.

Try one of the numerous disk wipe type of programs.
<http://www.dban.org/about> (what I use)
<http://www.diskwipe.org>
Stuff in the Windoze XP CD and boot it. It should ask to partition
and format the disk. After it's done, it will install XP. Much
easier with a clean HD.

>> Try Seatools and see if it finds anything:
>> <http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/support/downloads/seatools>
>> It probably won't if the BIOS can't find it, but it's still possible.
>
>I tried a couple different versions of Seatools, I guess when the bios
>doesn't see it, other programs can't either.

Make up your mind please. When you go into the CMOS setup, does the
drive show up and is it correctly identified as an ST340810A drive? If
so, the BIOS sees it. If not, it's dead.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 10:12 pm
From: Franc Zabkar

On Wed, 18 May 2011 07:03:45 -0700 (PDT), mike
<mlightner@survivormail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>I'm wondering can anyone give me some clues as to what happened to
>this Seagate 40 Gb hard drive I was messing around with the other day.
>
>I was using Clonezilla to try to get a newly cloned XP system to boot

<snip>

>The XP partition was the only one recognized by the XP CD, so I used
>Part Ed Magic to delete the non-NTFS partitions, thinking that would
>fix it, but instead the hdd acts like a brick now, and worse than a
>brick, since whichever IDE channel it's plugged into, it prevents
>that channel from detecting itself and any other device on that
>channel (jumpers set to cable select), causing big time delay in boot
>while the BIOS trys and fails to detect said items.

It could be that the drive has a weak head or bad media.

There is a reserved System Area (SA) on the platters which stores the
runtime (ATA) firmware, defect lists, SMART data, etc. When the drive
starts up, it executes a POST and some minor bootstrap code on the
PCB, and then proceeds to retrieve the firmware from the SA. If the SA
is unreadable, then the drive won't come ready.

You could try a DOS based diagnostic such as MHDD. This can access the
drive directly, without going though BIOS:
http://hddguru.com/software/2005.10.02-MHDD

Be sure to use the ENABLEPRIMARY switch if the drive is the master on
the primary IDE channel:
http://66.14.166.45/whitepapers/compforensics/danalysis/MHDD%20Documentation.pdf
http://66.14.166.45/whitepapers/compforensics/danalysis/MHDD%20Manual.pdf

Otherwise you could access the drive via its serial terminal interface
using a program such as SeDiv. Let me know if you need more details.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shorted Computer Power Supply
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/326dbb3fa5e1a293?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 5:13 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Wed, 18 May 2011 13:27:54 -0700 (PDT), KenO <kenitholson@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>Searched for a schematic but so far have not found one.

ATX Power Supply Schematic
<http://www.google.com/search?q=atx+power+supply+schematic&hl=en&prmd=ivns&tbm=isch>

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

==============================================================================
TOPIC: another puzzler
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b80657d8be4c22cd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 5:26 pm
From: spamtrap1888

On May 18, 6:44 am, "David" <some...@somewhere.com> wrote:
> "Don Pearce" wrote in message
>
> news:4dd3548d.36447387@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
>
> >The host acts as a leak of information. It might help to imagine
> >an
> >alternate game, where the host does not know the contents of the
> >doors,
> >and the game is void if the host reveals the car. This version
> >puts you
> >back to 50/50 when the host reveals a goat, whether you switch
> >doors or
> >not.
> >***
> >Not true. When the host reveals a goat whether he guessed or
> >knew
> >it was there makes absolutely no difference. You should still
> >switch doors.
>
> >David
>
> If the host does not know, he might quite as easily reveal the
> car.
> You then can't win it. Do you guarantee yourself 2/3 odds by
> switching
> then? No. If the host reveals a goat by chance, the odds do
> indeed
> drop to 50/50.
>
> d
> ***
> Sorry, I disagree. Yes the host could reveal a car if he is
> unaware of the situation. If this happens, the game was defined
> as void. If the host instead reveals a goat, there is no
> difference whether he guessed or knew the goat was there.
>

Let's look at the case of the ignorant host.

There are three possibilities at the start of the game. The
probability of each is 1/3

_1 2 3_
aCGG
bGCG
cGGC

Let us say door 1 represents the contestant's pick. The host can pick
either door 2 or door 3
Case a: Host picks Door 2. Result: Goat. Contestant switches to Door
3, loses.
..............Host picks Door 3 Result Goat. Contestant switches to
Door 2, loses.
Case b: Host picks Door 2. Result Car. Contestant loses
..............Host picks Door 3. Result Goat. Contestant switches to
Door 2, wins
Case c: Host picks Door 2. Result Goat. Contestant switches to Door 3,
wins
..............Host picks Door 3 Result Car. Contestant loses.

Of the six possible scenarios, the contestant loses four times. If the
contestant does not switch after the ignorant host opens a door, the
contestant loses four times. If we discard the times the host opens a
door with a car behind it, the contestant wins two out of four times
when he switches, and two out of four times when he doesn't switch.
Therefore, switching picks has no effect on the odds when the host
randomly opens one of the other doors.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oven thermostat question
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3bb00d42a18f12f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 5:44 pm
From: JeffM

PeterD wrote:
>Mechanical or electronic thermostat? Big difference likely.
>
When verifying the calibration of a thermostat,
the interval between the hash marks on the dial is the tolerance;
e.g. if the last mark passed is 350 and the next mark is 375,
the expected reading is considered to be 350 +/-25.

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7c3916928ab3b357?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 5:50 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tempest / BatterySpec AGM batteries?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9ab59c9b0f69f30d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 6:48 pm
From: notme

As a replacement deep-cycle battery for APC UPS's, I'd like to hear
experiences with this brand of battery.

I'm looking at their dual 12v/22Ah product (for a 24v UPS):

<http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=182>

Thanks.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 9:14 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Wed, 18 May 2011 18:48:49 -0700, notme <notme@notme.org> wrote:

>As a replacement deep-cycle battery for APC UPS's, I'd like to hear
>experiences with this brand of battery.
>
>I'm looking at their dual 12v/22Ah product (for a 24v UPS):
>
><http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=182>

No experience, but I can offer a clue. The quality of the battery is
often proportional to the amount of lead inside. Look at the net
weight of the battery for a rough idea. The above kit of two 12V 18A
batteries is 12 lbs each. For example, the "plus" version of the same
batteries, from the same vendor:
<http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=681>
is 13 lbs per battery.

Same from other vendors:

<http://www.batterywholesale.com/battery-store/proddetail.html?prodID=2530>
13 lbs

<http://www.atbatt.com/product/3595/sla/amstron/12v-18ah/battery>
12.6 lbs

<http://www.batteriesplus.com/ps-32622-1-werker-12v-18ah-agm-battery-with-nut-bolt-terminal.aspx>
12.8 lbs

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 9:21 pm
From: Cydrome Leader

In sci.electronics.repair notme <notme@notme.org> wrote:
> As a replacement deep-cycle battery for APC UPS's, I'd like to hear
> experiences with this brand of battery.
>
> I'm looking at their dual 12v/22Ah product (for a 24v UPS):
>
> <http://www.batteryspec.com/cgi-bin/cart.cgi?action=link&product=182>
>
> Thanks.
>
>

rest assured that's some no-name chinese battery and quality wasn't a
design concern, at all.

Stick with panasonic or yuasa if you care about quality. Some of those are
from china now, but are less bogus than the rest of the stuff out there.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 9:39 pm
From: notme

> rest assured that's some no-name chinese battery and quality wasn't a
> design concern, at all.
>
> Stick with panasonic or yuasa if you care about quality. Some of those are
> from china now, but are less bogus than the rest of the stuff out there.
[CL]

A statement full of prejudice and innuendo.

Facts?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where is Klem ??
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e9ebb396f18b6ba5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 7:52 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Meat Plow wrote:
>
> On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:30:48 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> > Meat Plow wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, 16 May 2011 03:09:03 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >>
> >> > Phil Allison wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "klem kedidelhopper"
> >> >>
> >> >> > So according to you Phil, one needs to be "an obvious six toed,
> >> >> > banjo plucking retard" in order to appreciate what a chemical fuse
> >> >> > is?
> >> >>
> >> >> ** Not what I posted at all.
> >> >>
> >> >> Only the BIGGEST liars post their OWN words and then argue with
> >> >> them.
> >> >>
> >> >> > I never learned about six toes, banjos, etc in electronics school.
> >> >>
> >> >> ** Because Klem is a congenital fuckwit and never went to school.
> >> >>
> >> >> ( snip rest of this anencephalic's absurd drivel )
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > You are the most useless idiot on usenet.
> >>
> >> Are some idiots more useful than others?
> >
> > Yes, if you are rendering them for lard. :)
>
> Forgot about that. I suppose they were very useful before Phil Allison
> invented the electric light bulb.

Phil's 'lightbulb' is made of rolled up newspapers that were soaked
in rancid sheep fat.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Allison needs help kicking Meat Plow off Usenet
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f8481990f5c47309?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 7:54 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

John Fields wrote:
>
> On Wed, 18 May 2011 22:00:19 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow
> <mhywattt@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 17 May 2011 19:27:27 -0500, John Fields wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 17 May 2011 23:07:00 +0000 (UTC), Meat Plow <mhywattt@yahoo.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Mon, 16 May 2011 03:13:29 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Phil Allison wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Meat Plow"
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ** This FUCKWIT troll needs to be kicked off usenet.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Who will help ?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> No one will lift a finger to help you, Phyllis.
> >>>
> >>>I will. Phil, just forward my posts to support@altopia.com with complete
> >>>headers. That's really all you can do unless you plan a trip to Ohio to
> >>>blow my brains out. Here's some friendly advise, buy a one way ticket.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Why do you want to take a sad song and not make it better?
> >>
> >> Phil's not so bad, he just has zero tolerance for bullshit and responds
> >> vehemently when he sees it.
> >>
> >> What's wrong with that?
> >
> >Allison sets traps so he can come back and tell people they need killed,
> >are fuckwits, etc...
> >
> >That's what's wrong.
>
> ---
> I don't see that, I just see someone who gets easily pissed when
> misinformation is proffered as truth by the ignorati.

You don't use news:sci.electronics repair.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 11:25 pm
From: isw

In article <ir0bla$l4o$1@dont-email.me>,
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

> > The point is entirely about * cone excursion* above resonance as a
> function
> > of drive frequency for fixed AC drive voltage. Obviously a cone does not
> > follow the actual drive voltage wave - or the excursion and all
> frequencies
> > would be the same.
>
> > Once you work out the simple relationship is between drive frequency and
> > cone excursion when the cone's mass dominates the game - you have it.
>
> How dare you answer a criticism courteously -- what's the world coming to?
>
> I'll check my books on acoustics about this.

Check your physics book, too, recalling (as Phil said), that a speaker
is a mechanical system operating *above resonance*.

You can simulate this by hanging a fairly heavy weight from a rubber
band. Hold the other end of the band (with the weight hanging down,
stretching the rubber but *not too much*). Move your hand up and down.
Below resonance, the weight follows your hand, with constant
displacement, no matter the frequency. Above resonance, your hand goes
down while the weight is coming up, and the faster you move your hand,
the smaller the weight's excursion gets. That's the domain a speaker
works in.

It is this reduction in excursion as frequency increases that makes a
speaker *automatically* have a constant volume velocity (constant output
level) regardless of frequency. The cone excursion drops by a factor of
four for every octave increase in frequency.

But insofar as speaker phasing is concerned, as long as they are both
the same, it doesn't matter much, because in general, you have no idea
what happened to the signals before they got stuck on that CD (or
whatever).

Isaac

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, May 19 2011 12:09 am
From: "Phil Allison"

"isw"
>
>>Some Wanker wrote:
>>
>> I'll check my books on acoustics about this.
>
> Check your physics book, too, recalling (as Phil said), that a speaker
> is a mechanical system operating *above resonance*.
>
> You can simulate this by hanging a fairly heavy weight from a rubber
> band. Hold the other end of the band (with the weight hanging down,
> stretching the rubber but *not too much*). Move your hand up and down.
> Below resonance, the weight follows your hand, with constant
> displacement, no matter the frequency. Above resonance, your hand goes
> down while the weight is coming up, and the faster you move your hand,
> the smaller the weight's excursion gets. That's the domain a speaker
> works in.
>
> It is this reduction in excursion as frequency increases that makes a
> speaker *automatically* have a constant volume velocity (constant output
> level) regardless of frequency. The cone excursion drops by a factor of
> four for every octave increase in frequency.

** Give this man a Kewpie doll ......

> But insofar as speaker phasing is concerned, as long as they are both
> the same, it doesn't matter much, because in general, you have no idea
> what happened to the signals before they got stuck on that CD (or
> whatever).

** Some hi-fi whackos like to pretend it is possible to get "absolute
phase" from their systems - but few even know the above fact.

BTW:

The situation is different for most headphones and electrostatic speakers -
where diaphragm movement is resistance dominated rather than mass dominated.

Plus different again for a condenser microphone where diaphragm excursion
does not vary with frequency and the output voltage wave is a direct replica
of its displacement from zero.

.... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is MTS audio a victim of the latest cable company upgrading?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/60a2fa68004f3c17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 7:58 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Deke wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3MWdnWsnBvpeFUzQnZ2dnUVZ_ogAAAAA@earthlink.com...
> >
> > Deke wrote:
> >>
> >> If you think the Discovery channels are boring, well, so sorry.
> >
> >
> > I'm sorry that you don't. Goodbye. I have work to do.
>
> I thought you couldn't work..oh well.

I repair computers and give them away to other Disabled Veterans. I
do repairs around my home, and do all the other work needed to continue
to live by myself, rather than go to some extended care facility.

> And by the way, there's no T in band-aid.

That's not a T, it's the trademark image.

> Enjoy your cable service.

Enjoy your small minded bigotry. And that great internet service you
don't get with Dish.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 8:02 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Deke wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3MWdnWgnBvoUFUzQnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >
> > Deke wrote:
> >>
> >> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >> >
> >> > What storm?
> >> >
> >> The one that gives you signal disrupting heavy fog for three straight
> >> days?
> >
> >
> > You've never lived in Florida, or you would know that you don't need
> > a storm to have heavy fog.
> >
> >
> > --
> > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-AidT on it, because it's
> > Teflon coated.
>
> OK. But three days of fog heavy enough to disrupt satellite service?
> Can't find anything on Google to support that. Must have been a bad
> installation.

Prove it, and why would that instance be on Google? Can you find
anything about the heavy smoke & fog that blanketed this area for months
after one hurricane?

> BTW, there's no T in band-aid.

BTW, get a real news client instead of that crappy Microsoft Windows
Mail 6.0.6002.18197, so you can see things other than the most basic
ASCII characters. That piece of crap is only good for old ladies to
exchange pickle recipies.
--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can a microwave oven have its output imited?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/956ea2dbdf891e16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 10:35 pm
From: "Ron D."

Percent power may not be related to actual duty cycle. 50% is not 50%
on and 50% off. The ON time may be longer based on service info for a
Sharp Microwave, It takes time for the filament to warm up and there
may be reduced or no output. This is taken into account.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, May 18 2011 10:55 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

"Ron D." wrote:
>
> Percent power may not be related to actual duty cycle. 50% is not 50%
> on and 50% off. The ON time may be longer based on service info for a
> Sharp Microwave, It takes time for the filament to warm up and there
> may be reduced or no output. This is taken into account.

Which still results in a 50% on to off output from the Magnetron.
Just how long do you think it takes for the filament to reach full
operating temperature? We aren't talking about 12 volt tubes with 150
mA filaments that take ten seconds to warm up.

--
It's easy to think outside the box, when you have a cutting torch.

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