sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is MTS audio a victim of the latest cable company upgrading?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/60a2fa68004f3c17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 9:21 am
From: "Deke"

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tpmdnWn3RLzLeVPQnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> Deke wrote:
>>
>> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:qoSdnYEyRPh_r1PQnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> >
>> > Deke wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:88WdndqCHO5q31HQnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > Deke wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Universal Cable rule # 1- They don't care about audio, or visual
>> >> >> quality,
>> >> >> and will always be geared to please the lowest common denominator.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > File a complaint with the FCC at FCCInfo@fcc.gov
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Universal Cable rule # 2- Even if they DO have a high quality
>> >> >> signal
>> >> >> available to them, they will compress/mangle it (1080i to 720i, 5.1
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> distorted L-R mono) to save bandwidth.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > File a complaint with the FCC at FCCInfo@fcc.gov
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >>Universal Cable rule #3- Cable companies don't care if you have a
>> >> >>$10,000
>> >> >> home entertainment center. Can you see a picture? Good!, and can
>> >> >> you
>> >> >> hear
>> >> >> it? Good!, will always be good enough for them.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > File a complaint with the FCC at FCCInfo@fcc.gov
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >> Universal Cable rule #4- Charge maximum amount of money for the
>> >> >> poorest
>> >> >> choice of channels, with the worst possible signal quality.
>> >> >> Increase
>> >> >> rates
>> >> >> at will.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Rate increases must be approved by the franchising authority.
>> >> > They
>> >> > can not increase rates 'At will'.
>> >>
>> >> This solved all my problems, AND gave me a far superior DVR...
>> >> www.dishnetwork.com
>> >
>> >
>> > Tell me how well it works in heavy rain or fog. I have had outages
>> > of over three full days becasue of bad weather, but the local cable
>> > system worked after several hurricanes even though there was no
>> > electricity in the area for over a month.
>> >
>> Since my system was installed correctly, it works fine in heavy fog or
>> rain.
>> I do lose signal when a squall line comes thru, but only for a couple
>> minutes.
>
>
> Big deal. It isn't a problem in your area, but it is in others.
>
So? Big deal indeed. Mine works fine, thanks.

>
>> After a 13 day power outage due to an ice storm, the system came right
>> back
>> up when power was restored.
>
>
> Installed properly? Sigh. I installed the dish and wiring. The
> drone from dish turned on the account. I installed, upgraded and aimed
> 5 meter dishes at CATV headends and TV stations. I worked for Microdyne
> who built the commercial grade equipment. A 'Dish' or Direct TV'
> antenna is designed to be installed by anyone with a pair of pliers.
>
And this is relevant in what way to my complete satisfaction with Dish, and
the fact that local Mediacom service stinks?
BTW, have you installed a three lnb satellite dish lately?
And if a pair of pliers is all you used to install the dish, no wonder there
were problems.

>
>> > Who needs a DVR? There is life outside of watching TV. I spent over
>> > a year with no TV or internet last decade, and all I missed was the
>> > wether maps on the local TV news.
>> >
>> So? Your choice to live off the grid was your choice.
>
>
> What are you smoking? I am not living 'Off grid'
>
So you DID have electricity? Fascinating.

>
>> I choose to watch the TV shows I enjoy, minus the commercials, in HD.
>
>
> Learn to ignore them. I did, when i started working as a TV
> broadcast engineer in 1973. There is no programming worth it to me to
> record to a DVR. If there was, I would build one out of a spare
> computer. It doesn't take much of a computer these days:
>
>
Once again, fascinating. I choose to not spend the time "ignoring" them.
Saves 20 minutes out of every hour. But of course, being a broadcast
engineer from the 70's, you should already know that.

> From http://www.mythbuntu.org/
>
>
> Minimum System Requirements:
>
> 1.0 GHz x86 or x86_64 Processor
> 192 MB of system memory (RAM)
> 2 GB of disk space (Frontend Role)
> 20 GB of disk space (Backend Role)
> Graphics card capable of 1024x768 resolution
> Supported TV Tuner Card (Backend Role)
> Recommended System Requirements:
>
> 2.0 Ghz x86 or x86_64 Processor
> 2GB MB of system memory (RAM)
> 10 GB disk space (Frontend Role)
> 160 GB+ disk space (Backend Role)
> nVidia 8xxx+ 256MB+ Graphics Card
> Supported TV Tuner Card (Backend Role)
>
> I have all of this laying around as spare parts.
>
Reminds me of a TV show called "Hoarders". You should check it out.
I have it recorded on my DVR.

>
>> >> Local Mediacom cable service is HORRIBLE.
>
>
> Not my problem. I used to work in Cable TV in Cincinnati, Ohio at
> the top rated system in the region. I maintained the headend for that
> system, and 35 other systems across the country.
>
>
So? I used to work for the military.

> --
> You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-AidT on it, because it's
> Teflon coated.

Indeed,

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 2:30 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Deke wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:tpmdnWn3RLzLeVPQnZ2dnUVZ_qidnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >
> > Deke wrote:
> >>
> >> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> news:qoSdnYEyRPh_r1PQnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >> >
> >> > Deke wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> >> news:88WdndqCHO5q31HQnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Deke wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Universal Cable rule # 1- They don't care about audio, or visual
> >> >> >> quality,
> >> >> >> and will always be geared to please the lowest common denominator.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > File a complaint with the FCC at FCCInfo@fcc.gov
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Universal Cable rule # 2- Even if they DO have a high quality
> >> >> >> signal
> >> >> >> available to them, they will compress/mangle it (1080i to 720i, 5.1
> >> >> >> to
> >> >> >> distorted L-R mono) to save bandwidth.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > File a complaint with the FCC at FCCInfo@fcc.gov
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >>Universal Cable rule #3- Cable companies don't care if you have a
> >> >> >>$10,000
> >> >> >> home entertainment center. Can you see a picture? Good!, and can
> >> >> >> you
> >> >> >> hear
> >> >> >> it? Good!, will always be good enough for them.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > File a complaint with the FCC at FCCInfo@fcc.gov
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> Universal Cable rule #4- Charge maximum amount of money for the
> >> >> >> poorest
> >> >> >> choice of channels, with the worst possible signal quality.
> >> >> >> Increase
> >> >> >> rates
> >> >> >> at will.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Rate increases must be approved by the franchising authority.
> >> >> > They
> >> >> > can not increase rates 'At will'.
> >> >>
> >> >> This solved all my problems, AND gave me a far superior DVR...
> >> >> www.dishnetwork.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Tell me how well it works in heavy rain or fog. I have had outages
> >> > of over three full days becasue of bad weather, but the local cable
> >> > system worked after several hurricanes even though there was no
> >> > electricity in the area for over a month.
> >> >
> >> Since my system was installed correctly, it works fine in heavy fog or
> >> rain.
> >> I do lose signal when a squall line comes thru, but only for a couple
> >> minutes.
> >
> >
> > Big deal. It isn't a problem in your area, but it is in others.
> >
> So? Big deal indeed. Mine works fine, thanks.
>
> >
> >> After a 13 day power outage due to an ice storm, the system came right
> >> back
> >> up when power was restored.
> >
> >
> > Installed properly? Sigh. I installed the dish and wiring. The
> > drone from dish turned on the account. I installed, upgraded and aimed
> > 5 meter dishes at CATV headends and TV stations. I worked for Microdyne
> > who built the commercial grade equipment. A 'Dish' or Direct TV'
> > antenna is designed to be installed by anyone with a pair of pliers.
> >
> And this is relevant in what way to my complete satisfaction with Dish, and
> the fact that local Mediacom service stinks?

Only that you have your head where the sun doesn't shine. Dish is
far from perfect, and you have a hard-on for cable TV.

> BTW, have you installed a three lnb satellite dish lately?

Have you ever converted a five meter dish from Cassegrain to prime
focus and installed four LNAs. The original feed horn had to be removed
and lowered down the side of a hill by rope. It weighed over 125
pounds. Then cut three slots in the dish while hanging from a sling?
That conversion took five full eight hour days with three workers. Your
three LNB feed is child's play.

> And if a pair of pliers is all you used to install the dish, no wonder there
> were problems.

Sigh. I have all the tools needed, and a small machine shop behind
the guest cottage on my property. I said that it could be installed
with a pair of pliers and a lot of installs I've seen looked like that
was what they used. Do you have a Sat meter to read the signal level at
the dish? I have two, and a Sadelco TV FSM. Do you know how they
work? How about an inclinometer?

http://www.satellitetvshop.co.uk/

> >> > Who needs a DVR? There is life outside of watching TV. I spent over
> >> > a year with no TV or internet last decade, and all I missed was the
> >> > wether maps on the local TV news.
> >> >
> >> So? Your choice to live off the grid was your choice.
> >
> >
> > What are you smoking? I am not living 'Off grid'
> >
> So you DID have electricity? Fascinating.
>
> >
> >> I choose to watch the TV shows I enjoy, minus the commercials, in HD.
> >
> >
> > Learn to ignore them. I did, when i started working as a TV
> > broadcast engineer in 1973. There is no programming worth it to me to
> > record to a DVR. If there was, I would build one out of a spare
> > computer. It doesn't take much of a computer these days:
> >
> >
> Once again, fascinating. I choose to not spend the time "ignoring" them.
> Saves 20 minutes out of every hour. But of course, being a broadcast
> engineer from the 70's, you should already know that.
>
> > From http://www.mythbuntu.org/
> >
> >
> > Minimum System Requirements:
> >
> > 1.0 GHz x86 or x86_64 Processor
> > 192 MB of system memory (RAM)
> > 2 GB of disk space (Frontend Role)
> > 20 GB of disk space (Backend Role)
> > Graphics card capable of 1024x768 resolution
> > Supported TV Tuner Card (Backend Role)
> > Recommended System Requirements:
> >
> > 2.0 Ghz x86 or x86_64 Processor
> > 2GB MB of system memory (RAM)
> > 10 GB disk space (Frontend Role)
> > 160 GB+ disk space (Backend Role)
> > nVidia 8xxx+ 256MB+ Graphics Card
> > Supported TV Tuner Card (Backend Role)
> >
> > I have all of this laying around as spare parts.
> >
> Reminds me of a TV show called "Hoarders". You should check it out.
> I have it recorded on my DVR.

Hoarder? You're the one collecting useless TV shows. Those parts
take up a little over a cubic foot of space. My workshop is 1200 square
feet with a nine foot ceiling so that is less than 1/10 of a percent of
the space.

The spare parts are used to repair computers for the other Disabled
Veterans in my area. I also help low income and other disabled people
get a computer or to keep their working. I don't charge them for labor,
and tell them where to buy any parts they need. I would rather build or
repair something than park my ass in front of a TV and stuff my face
like so many drooling idiots. I prefer to read, than watch TV.

> >> >> Local Mediacom cable service is HORRIBLE.
> >
> >
> > Not my problem. I used to work in Cable TV in Cincinnati, Ohio at
> > the top rated system in the region. I maintained the headend for that
> > system, and 35 other systems across the country.
> >
> >
> So? I used to work for the military.

So? I was a US Army broadcast engineer for AFRTS. I tested out of
the three year school while in Basic training at Ft Knox.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 2:31 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Deke wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:wrednVacWPk8eFPQnZ2dnUVZ_hGdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >
> > Deke wrote:
> >>
> >> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> news:88WdndqCHO5q31HQnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >> >
> >> > Deke wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Universal Cable rule # 1- They don't care about audio, or visual
> >> >> quality,
> >> >> and will always be geared to please the lowest common denominator.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > File a complaint with the FCC at FCCInfo@fcc.gov
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Universal Cable rule # 2- Even if they DO have a high quality signal
> >> >> available to them, they will compress/mangle it (1080i to 720i, 5.1 to
> >> >> distorted L-R mono) to save bandwidth.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > File a complaint with the FCC at FCCInfo@fcc.gov
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>Universal Cable rule #3- Cable companies don't care if you have a
> >> >>$10,000
> >> >> home entertainment center. Can you see a picture? Good!, and can you
> >> >> hear
> >> >> it? Good!, will always be good enough for them.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > File a complaint with the FCC at FCCInfo@fcc.gov
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Universal Cable rule #4- Charge maximum amount of money for the
> >> >> poorest
> >> >> choice of channels, with the worst possible signal quality. Increase
> >> >> rates
> >> >> at will.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Rate increases must be approved by the franchising authority. They
> >> > can not increase rates 'At will'.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> But they CAN, and do increase rates for equipment fees, rental fees,
> >> service
> >> fees, and anything else that doesn't involve programming.
> >
> >
> > Sigh. You need to learn what a 'CATV Franchise' means. I was in
> > that business. The only time a equipment fee wasn't regulated was when
> > a new piece of hardware was introduced. Any badly damaged or missing
> > equipment could be billed at full replacement costs, plus all other
> > incurred expenses. My dad had Dish a couple years ago. The day his
> > first year contract was up he received a letter from Dish telling him
> > they were going to sue him if they didn't get their equipment back
> > within 10 days. No mention of renewing the contract, just threats. I
> > boxed it up and dropped it off at the Post Office for him, while he was
> > calling Direct TV for service. He's been with them for more than five
> > years now.
> >
> >
> And this is relevant to me in what way? Are you saying that your Dad's
> cable service is inadequate, so he went with satellite TV?
> THAT I can relate to.

He wanted a channel he couldn't get on cable. That's reality, and
I'm sure you can't relate to that.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Zimo DCC info ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/93fbd838f0d4056e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 12:34 pm
From: Wolf K

On 13/05/2011 9:12 AM, N_Cook wrote:
> I'm an electronic engineer asked to repair a number of these DCC control
> boards
> that apparently plug into/under model train locos. I've found a few failings
> testing cold but would like to apply some power to them.
> Anyone know of "block diagram" pinning for such units or any technical info?
> Boards are 32x30mm with surface mount components , 2x4 way connector, 21 way
> conn, 5 x 2way and 1x 4w connector

I've read the thread, and my opinion is that it's hardly worth the
trouble, unless of course you want the "learning opportunity". Without a
model number, it's nearly impossible to say what the board is. A later
post by you suggests that it's a 21-to-8 pin adapter, not a DCC control
board (decoder) as such. If, as you say, some of the solder joints are
cold/defective, fixing them will likely fix the board. OTOH, if it
actually a decoder, then most likely the chip is defective.

The DCC decoders convert rail power (14-18V, 50/60HZ) to chopped DC
power (effective 0 to ca. 12V), and control other devices such as
locomotive lights, sound systems, etc. The decoders include EEPROM which
stores the control program, and "control variables", by means of which
the board's (ie, locomotive) address can be changed, and functions such
as speed control can be modified. The control is accomplished via data
packages transmitted from the control station via the rails to the
locomotive, at about 150KHz IIRC. Most of the control circuitry is
integrated into custom-made packages ("chips", in model railway parlance).

You can find more at nmra.org, search for DCC. NMRA has specified
recommended wiring harness colours, ie, pinouts for the board as a
whole. The internal pin assignments for any chips are the manufacturer's
responsibility/choice, of course.

You mention some on-board specs, I agree with your guess as to what they
mean. That is, if the board is an adapter, and not a decoder.

I'm not an electronics expert, the above comments are based on my
knowledge of DCC.

HTH
Wolf K.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 12:39 pm
From: Wolf K

I went to Zimo's website:
http://www.zimo.at/web2010/

There is an English version, accessible via a Union Jack in the upper
left corner. In Firefox, the site displays badly (it has 14 errors
according to http://validator.w3.org/), but you should be able to find
your board.

Good hunting!

Wolf K.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 1:16 pm
From: "manatbandq@hotmail.com"

On May 15, 8:34 pm, Wolf K <weki...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On 13/05/2011 9:12 AM, N_Cook wrote:
>
> > I'm an electronic engineer asked to repair a number of these DCC control
> > boards
> > that apparently plug into/under model train locos. I've found a few failings
> > testing cold but would like to apply some power to them.
> > Anyone know of "block diagram" pinning for such units or any technical info?
> > Boards are 32x30mm with surface mount components , 2x4 way connector, 21 way
> > conn, 5 x 2way and 1x 4w connector
>
> I've read the thread, and my opinion is that it's hardly worth the
> trouble, unless of course you want the "learning opportunity". Without a
> model number, it's nearly impossible to say what the board is. A later
> post by you suggests that it's a 21-to-8 pin adapter, not a DCC control
> board (decoder) as such. If, as you say, some of the solder joints are
> cold/defective, fixing them will likely fix the board. OTOH, if it
> actually a decoder, then most likely the chip is defective.
>
> The DCC decoders convert rail power (14-18V, 50/60HZ)

If you can't even the basics right about DCC, why bother posting?

> locomotive, at about 150KHz IIRC.

Completely wrong again.

> I'm not an electronics expert, the above comments are based on my
> knowledge of DCC.

Need I say more?

MBQ

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 1:19 pm
From: "manatbandq@hotmail.com"

On May 14, 9:09 am, "N_Cook" <dive...@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> cannot find reference to these boards on zimo.at
>
> Has the same main connectors as this
> Bachmann E-Z Command 8 Pin To 21 Pin Adaptorhttp://images.nitrosell.com/product_images/11/2621/thumb-36-559.jpg
> a bit bigger board plus outlet connectors, labelled on board, for LED1,
> LED2, motor, R+ L- = rail pickups ?, Spk = speaker? and Aux1 which the
> output of the 555 via the transitor goes to
>
> 21 pinning seems to agree thishttp://www.bobclay.co.uk/smalldcc/dcc33.jpg

A picture of the actual boards would be more help.

MBQ

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 6:06 pm
From: Wolf K

On 15/05/2011 4:16 PM, manatbandq@hotmail.com wrote:
Wolf wrote:

[snip]
>> he DCC decoders convert rail power (14-18V, 50/60HZ)

> If you can't even the basics right about DCC, why bother posting?
>
[snip]

AIUI, DCC puts a digital signal on top of an AC propulsion current. The
latter is rectified to sine wave DC by the decoder, and is in turn
chopped to provide average voltages below the maximum, thus controlling
the speed of the locomotive. If this is incorrect, please elucidate.

The signal is delivered to the locomotive in the form of data packets,
whose format is specified in NMRA Standard S-9.1. This standard also
indicates that the propulsion current is AC, Vmax between 14 and 18V RMS.

My recollection of the propulsion current and the signal current
relationship is that the former is "ordinary" AC, ie, 50/60Hz, depending
on country, and the latter a high frequency, whose value I've probably
got wrong, because I wrote from memory. Kindly correct and elucidate my
errors.

Thanks,
Wolf K.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ain't it just amazing !!
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f8481990f5c47309?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 1:55 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

William Sommerwerck wrote:
>
> "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
> news:939e5jFgmbU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > "William Sommerwanker"
> > > >> "Meat Plow"
> > >
> > >> ** This trolling asshole is a narcissistic psychopath.
> > >
> > >> He knows nothing and understands even less.
> > >> I want the lunatic jerk kicked right off usenet.
> > >> Who will help me ?
> > >
> > > If the "lunatic jerk" you're referring to is yourself... I'd say
> everyone
> > > in this group.
> >
> >
> > ** Ain't it just amazing !!
> >
> > If you go after ONE troll, the rest of the cunts come in and gang up on
> > you.
> >
> > So you gotta take the WHOLE lot on, all at once.
> >
> > What a bunch of gutless, fascist pricks they are.
>
> Are you being serious? Or is this an attempt at "humour"?

It's an example of 'free mental health care' in Oz.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 4:49 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sun, 15 May 2011 17:37:16 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

> "William Sommerwanker"
>> >> "Meat Plow"
>>
>>> ** This trolling asshole is a narcissistic psychopath.
>>
>>> He knows nothing and understands even less. I want the lunatic jerk
>>> kicked right off usenet. Who will help me ?
>>
>> If the "lunatic jerk" you're referring to is yourself... I'd say
>> everyone in
>> this group.
>
>
> ** Ain't it just amazing !!
>
> If you go after ONE troll, the rest of the cunts come in and gang up on
> you.
>
> So you gotta take the WHOLE lot on, all at once.
>
> What a bunch of gutless, fascist pricks they are.

You don't have what it takes to take on me. I rip you apart
anytime you fly off the handle with your vulgar, threatening
reply traps.

You are the epitome of the word Troll.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 4:55 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:26:39 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

> "Dave Plowman (Nutcase)"
>>
>> Phil tends to be rude to everyone. And everything to him is black and
>> white.
>
> ** My colour vision is perfect.
>
>> But I do know out of phase headphones ain't as obvious to all as he
>> suggests, or are to him.
>
>
> ** Not with a ** MONO ** signal !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> As many others here, with far more insight than a jerk like you, have
> agreed.
>
>

I tend to agree with a lot of technical things you reply with. But when
you star suggesting people take a bullet to the head that crosses the
border for even a Teflon skinned person like me.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 5:28 pm
From: Jamie

Meat Plow wrote:

> On Sun, 15 May 2011 17:37:16 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:
>
>
>
>>"William Sommerwanker"
>>
>>>>>"Meat Plow"
>>>
>>>>** This trolling asshole is a narcissistic psychopath.
>>>
>>>> He knows nothing and understands even less. I want the lunatic jerk
>>>> kicked right off usenet. Who will help me ?
>>>
>>>If the "lunatic jerk" you're referring to is yourself... I'd say
>>>everyone in
>>>this group.
>>
>>
>>** Ain't it just amazing !!
>>
>>If you go after ONE troll, the rest of the cunts come in and gang up on
>>you.
>>
>>So you gotta take the WHOLE lot on, all at once.
>>
>>What a bunch of gutless, fascist pricks they are.
>
>
> You don't have what it takes to take on me. I rip you apart
> anytime you fly off the handle with your vulgar, threatening
> reply traps.
>
> You are the epitome of the word Troll.
>
>
>

Fighting a battle of wits does not help you much, especially when
your aponent is unarmed!

Jamie

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 5:22 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sun, 15 May 2011 10:34:32 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

> "Meat Plow"

That's my nick name you sheep-shagging nutjob, don't wear it out.

>
> ** This trolling asshole is a narcissistic psychopath.

Oooooooooo the IRONY

> He knows nothing and understands even less.

Oooooooooo the IRONY

> I want the lunatic jerk kicked right off usenet.

SPROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOING! Now you've
done it, ruin a perfectly good irony meter.

> Who will help me ?

Nobody. But I have sent your death threats to Individual.net. Let's see
how they feel about you thinking you can threaten anyone you wish with no
consequences.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 5:31 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sun, 15 May 2011 22:25:06 +1000, Phil Allison wrote:

> " As someone who does repairs for a living - I learnt LONG ago to
> expect the unexpected. Murphy RULES !!!!!

Provide one believable and undeniable strand of evidence that you repair
electronics for a living. Having a hyper-antisocial personality like
yours would get you fired from any employer. And working for yourself,
the same personality disorder would send prospective customers running
for their lives never to return.

So unless you have some proof, I say you are a liar.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 5:34 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sun, 15 May 2011 16:55:14 -0400, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

> William Sommerwerck wrote:
>>
>> "Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:939e5jFgmbU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> > "William Sommerwanker"
>> > > >> "Meat Plow"
>> > >
>> > >> ** This trolling asshole is a narcissistic psychopath.
>> > >
>> > >> He knows nothing and understands even less. I want the lunatic
>> > >> jerk kicked right off usenet. Who will help me ?
>> > >
>> > > If the "lunatic jerk" you're referring to is yourself... I'd say
>> everyone
>> > > in this group.
>> >
>> >
>> > ** Ain't it just amazing !!
>> >
>> > If you go after ONE troll, the rest of the cunts come in and gang up
>> > on you.
>> >
>> > So you gotta take the WHOLE lot on, all at once.
>> >
>> > What a bunch of gutless, fascist pricks they are.
>>
>> Are you being serious? Or is this an attempt at "humour"?
>
>
> It's an example of 'free mental health care' in Oz.

I have relatives on my mom's side living in Sidney. None of them act
like the psychopathic Phil Allison. Just exactly the opposite. One even
being a well known local radio personality.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

==============================================================================
TOPIC: a bios question
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/7c0bc6748d91ff8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 2:34 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Bob Villa wrote:
>
> On May 14, 6:42 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > Bob Villa wrote:
> >
> > > On May 14, 3:30 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Bob Villa wrote:
> >
> > > > > On May 14, 7:41 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > Bob Villa wrote:
> >
> > > > > If you're the same "Michael A. Terrell, Jr." that works for Chrysler I
> > > > > pity you if your bosses see how immature you are in your responses
> > > > > here.
> >
> > > > If you think it's me, tell Chrysler about it. Of course, if you
> > > > actually knew anything about computers you would know what part of the
> > > > county I'm in, junior.
> >
> > > > > This surely applies to you.."I'm a strong relationship builder with
> > > > > solid leadership skills." From your LinkedIn.
> >
> > > > I see your search skill suck, too. Typical of a low grade troll, who
> > > > brags about doing substandard repairs.
> >
> > > How about Deland,Fla? Like there is any skill involved, Mr, Infantile!
> >
> > Right state, but I haven't been near Deland since my last trip to the
> > WACX transmitter site, over 20 years ago. They had a fairly new Comark
> > transmitter and 1700' plus tower. The only repairs the transmitter
> > needed was to replace a defective spark detector on one of the three 65
> > KW EEV Klystrons, and a couple bulbs in the meters. The Umatic tape
> > decks were the attention whores, and they like to die on holidays.
> >
> > I give you three points for trying, but you lost two points for a bad
> > attitude. You could save yourself a lot of embarrassment if you didn't
> > post so much ignorant crap, like "Works for Chrysler". I'm retired,
> > after 45 years of working in electronics. You have yet to prove
> > yourself to anyone on this group, so keep shooting off your toes, till
> > you have nothing left to stand on. I have been here since 1997, and
> > have used this account since 2003. I had to drop the first ISP when I
> > moved, and found that they didn't offer service at my new house.
> >
> > <http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/browse_thread/t...>
> >
> > You popped up recently with a bad attitude and haven't shut up
> > since. Keep calling people names like 'Mr, Infantile!' and everyone
> > using a real NNTP server will just kill file you. Then all you will
> > have are other Google Gropers to insult.
> >
> > --
> > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
> > Teflon coated.
>
> If you would remember correctly it was you who accused me of knowing
> nothing about which capacitors should be in a switching power supply.
> Instead of suggesting or instructing you chose to belittle.
> Considering you age I'm frankly surprised you wouldn't help instead of
> demean.
> This seems to be your hangout with little room for any warmth. To be
> truthful I was trying to be a troll because of the treatment I
> received.
> I will not bother you any further. You and Meathead can keep your
> little forum to yourselves.

I asked you what brand and series you used, and you turned nasty.
There are only a few type well suited for SMPS service. This isn't a
'forum', it is a Usent newsgroup, but I don't expect any Google Groper
to know the difference.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 4:06 pm
From: Bob Villa

On May 15, 4:34 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Bob Villa wrote:
>
> > On May 14, 6:42 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> > wrote:
> > > Bob Villa wrote:
>
> > > > On May 14, 3:30 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > Bob Villa wrote:
>
> > > > > > On May 14, 7:41 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > Bob Villa wrote:
>
> > > > > > If you're the same "Michael A. Terrell, Jr." that works for Chrysler I
> > > > > > pity you if your bosses see how immature you are in your responses
> > > > > > here.
>
> > > > > If you think it's me, tell Chrysler about it. Of course, if you
> > > > > actually knew anything about computers you would know what part of the
> > > > > county I'm in, junior.
>
> > > > > > This surely applies to you.."I'm a strong relationship builder with
> > > > > > solid leadership skills." From your LinkedIn.
>
> > > > > I see your search skill suck, too. Typical of a low grade troll, who
> > > > > brags about doing substandard repairs.
>
> > > > How about Deland,Fla? Like there is any skill involved, Mr, Infantile!
>
> > > Right state, but I haven't been near Deland since my last trip to the
> > > WACX transmitter site, over 20 years ago. They had a fairly new Comark
> > > transmitter and 1700' plus tower. The only repairs the transmitter
> > > needed was to replace a defective spark detector on one of the three 65
> > > KW EEV Klystrons, and a couple bulbs in the meters. The Umatic tape
> > > decks were the attention whores, and they like to die on holidays.
>
> > > I give you three points for trying, but you lost two points for a bad
> > > attitude. You could save yourself a lot of embarrassment if you didn't
> > > post so much ignorant crap, like "Works for Chrysler". I'm retired,
> > > after 45 years of working in electronics. You have yet to prove
> > > yourself to anyone on this group, so keep shooting off your toes, till
> > > you have nothing left to stand on. I have been here since 1997, and
> > > have used this account since 2003. I had to drop the first ISP when I
> > > moved, and found that they didn't offer service at my new house.
>
> > > <http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/browse_thread/t...>
>
> > > You popped up recently with a bad attitude and haven't shut up
> > > since. Keep calling people names like 'Mr, Infantile!' and everyone
> > > using a real NNTP server will just kill file you. Then all you will
> > > have are other Google Gropers to insult.
>
> > > --
> > > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
> > > Teflon coated.
>
> > If you would remember correctly it was you who accused me of knowing
> > nothing about which capacitors should be in a switching power supply.
> > Instead of suggesting or instructing you chose to belittle.
> > Considering you age I'm frankly surprised you wouldn't help instead of
> > demean.
> > This seems to be your hangout with little room for any warmth. To be
> > truthful I was trying to be a troll because of the treatment I
> > received.
> > I will not bother you any further. You and Meathead can keep your
> > little forum to yourselves.
>
> I asked you what brand and series you used, and you turned nasty.
> There are only a few type well suited for SMPS service. This isn't a
> 'forum', it is a Usent newsgroup, but I don't expect any Google Groper
> to know the difference.
>
> --
> You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
> Teflon coated.

Maybe you need to re-read your post...you were demeaning and rude.
Good bye, sorry you couldn't teach me...instead of insult me.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Can a microwave oven have its output imited?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/956ea2dbdf891e16?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 2:36 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

GS wrote:
>
> On May 14, 8:49 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > mm wrote:
> >
> > > On Sat, 14 May 2011 19:19:28 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> > > <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > > > Magnetrons don't work that way. They run at full power over their
> > > >useful life. That's why they have to use PWM to control the average
> > > >power level.
> >
> > > Makes sense. Okay. I'll give up the plan. That's one more thiing I
> > > don't have to do.
> >
> > > Thanks again.
> >
> > You're welcome. That's why I have two microwave ovens. :)
> >
> > --
> > You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
> > Teflon coated.
>
> I use two. A big sears 800 watts, and little Panasonic inverter 1200
> watts. Weird but true. Always use the inverter for frozen dinners.
>
> I think you have to wide pulse the magnetron, like many seconds.
> A little weird, the inverter takes about 3 seconds to fire up after
> pushing start.

The Magnatron filament is turned on and off to pulse the output. It
takes a fraction of a second to warm up.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 2:37 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

mike wrote:
>
> news@jecarter.us wrote:
> > On Sat, 14 May 2011 14:35:51 -0400, mm <NOPSAMmm2005@bigfoot.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Can a microwave oven have its output controlled, limited, by something
> >> like adjusting the AGC on a TV? Or on combo devices, radio,
> >> cassette, CD, tv, there is usually a pot on each of those, adjusted so
> >> the volume stays the same when one changes functions.
> >>
> >> I didn't like my old small microwave oven because it was so small, and
> >> I also had to cook longer than instructions said, because it was low
> >> power. (So I was in the habit of mulitplying the time given by 1.1 or
> >> 1.3, but I was hoping not to have to do that anymore.)
> >>
> >> Now I have a new, one-year old, full-size Sharp microwave -- I can
> >> provide the model number if it matters -- and it is too powerful.
> >> Things cooked in their packages according to instructions have their
> >> water boiling over and taking some of the food with it, and I presume
> >> other food is being cooked more than instructions or recipes call for.
> >>
> >> It has a power control that will lower the power by 10% for every push
> >> of the button, but I would have to use that button every time.
> >>
> >> Is there any chance I can turn the full power down by 10%, for every
> >> use?
> >>
> >> (As an aside, it's interesting that on 90% power, for example, I can
> >> tell when the microwave part is functioning because it makes more
> >> noise during the 90% than the 10% of the time. The old no-name-brand
> >> only had one other power level, Defrost, but it made the same noise
> >> all the time, and to see how much of the time it was making heat, I
> >> had to turn on a nearby AM radio and tune to a weak or no station, and
> >> listen to the radiation from the microwave.)
> >
> > The "power control" is a "per cent on" control. 90% for one minute
> > means the unit runs at full power for .9 * 60 seconds or 54 seconds,
> > usually in semi-equal segments such as on 18 seconds, off 2 seconds or
> > on 9 seconds, off 1 second.
> >
> > John
> I've got the same problem, but need more like 50%.
> I'd considered adding another cap at half the value.
> Not sure how to to the HV switching safely with affordable
> components.

Just program the cook power, or get a smaller oven. The power supply
in a microwave can kill you in a heartbeat.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 6:09 pm
From: klem kedidelhopper

On May 15, 5:37 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> mike wrote:
>
> > n...@jecarter.us wrote:
> > > On Sat, 14 May 2011 14:35:51 -0400, mm <NOPSAMmm2...@bigfoot.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > >> Can a microwave oven have its output controlled, limited, by something
> > >> like adjusting the AGC on a TV? Or on combo devices, radio,
> > >> cassette, CD, tv, there is usually a pot on each of those, adjusted so
> > >> the volume stays the same when one changes functions.
>
> > >> I didn't like my old small microwave oven because it was so small, and
> > >> I also had to cook longer than instructions said, because it was low
> > >> power. (So I was in the habit of mulitplying the time given by 1.1 or
> > >> 1.3, but I was hoping not to have to do that anymore.)
>
> > >> Now I have a new, one-year old, full-size Sharp microwave -- I can
> > >> provide the model number if it matters -- and it is too powerful.
> > >> Things cooked in their packages according to instructions have their
> > >> water boiling over and taking some of the food with it, and I presume
> > >> other food is being cooked more than instructions or recipes call for.
>
> > >> It has a power control that will lower the power by 10% for every push
> > >> of the button, but I would have to use that button every time.
>
> > >> Is there any chance I can turn the full power down by 10%, for every
> > >> use?
>
> > >> (As an aside, it's interesting that on 90% power, for example, I can
> > >> tell when the microwave part is functioning because it makes more
> > >> noise during the 90% than the 10% of the time. The old no-name-brand
> > >> only had one other power level, Defrost, but it made the same noise
> > >> all the time, and to see how much of the time it was making heat, I
> > >> had to turn on a nearby AM radio and tune to a weak or no station, and
> > >> listen to the radiation from the microwave.)
>
> > > The "power control" is a "per cent on" control. 90% for one minute
> > > means the unit runs at full power for .9 * 60 seconds or 54 seconds,
> > > usually in semi-equal segments such as on 18 seconds, off 2 seconds or
> > > on 9 seconds, off 1 second.
>
> > > John
> > I've got the same problem, but need more like 50%.
> > I'd considered adding another cap at half the value.
> > Not sure how to to the HV switching safely with affordable
> > components.
>
> Just program the cook power, or get a smaller oven. The power supply
> in a microwave can kill you in a heartbeat.
>
> --
> You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
> Teflon coated.

I was just reading this thread and it brought a question to mind. What
if theoretically speaking you dropped the line voltage to the HV
circuit but not the control section? This would reduce both the
filament voltage as well as the HV secondary voltage on the
transformer. The result I would think would be a reduction in output
power, wouldn't it? Lenny

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Did the Queen's Husband (Prince Phillip) Fart at the Royal Wedding?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/770cf192b4b02afa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 2:46 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"RoadRunner" <asdf@aol.com> wrote in message
news:lonvs6t0mp54pvb5sbcqjut3tn8tumqrke@4ax.com...
> If the looks of the royal wedding party in these photos is any
> indication I'd say yes. Of course the old guy is 90-years-old so he
> may have just dropped a duce.
>
> http://www.craigboyce.com/w/2011/05/prince-phillip-fart/

Those photos were from some time back, I believe. Not from the recent
wedding. I can remember them appearing in the papers with the 'who farted'
sort of headlines at the time, but I can't remember what the occasion was
...

Arfa

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 7:08 pm
From: "Guv Bob"

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:yQXzp.5246$5C7.1634@newsfe10.ams2...
>
>
> "RoadRunner" <asdf@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:lonvs6t0mp54pvb5sbcqjut3tn8tumqrke@4ax.com...
> > If the looks of the royal wedding party in these photos is any
> > indication I'd say yes. Of course the old guy is 90-years-old so he
> > may have just dropped a duce.
> >
> > http://www.craigboyce.com/w/2011/05/prince-phillip-fart/
>
> Those photos were from some time back, I believe. Not from the recent
> wedding. I can remember them appearing in the papers with the 'who farted'
> sort of headlines at the time, but I can't remember what the occasion was

Reminds me of the old joke that was modified for Dubya...

At Heathrow Airport in England, a 300-foot red carpet was stretched out to Air Force One and President Bush strode to a warm but dignified handshake from Queen Elizabeth II. They rode in a silver 1934 Bentley to the edge of central London where they boarded an open 17th century coach hitched to six magnificent white horses. As they rode toward Buckingham Palace, each looking to their side and waving to the thousands of cheering Britons lining the streets, all was going well. This was indeed a glorious display of pageantry and dignity. Suddenly the scene was shattered when the right rear horse let rip the most horrendous, earth-shattering, eye-smarting blast of flatulence, and the coach immediately filled with noxious fumes.

Uncomfortable, but maintaining control, the two dignitaries did their best to ignore the whole incident, but then the Queen decided that was a ridiculous manner with which to handle a most embarrassing situation. She turned to Mr. Bush and explained, "Mr. President, please accept my regrets. I'm sure you understand that there are some things even a Queen cannot control."

George W., ever the Texas gentleman, replied, "Your Majesty, please don't give the matter another thought. You know, if you hadn't said something I would have assumed it was one of the horses."

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_gw_queen.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to make antenna for a Weather Radio
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/db4f2a9fbbc88e5a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 2:47 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > It is 50 ohm, not 75.
>
> Doesn't matter. RG-6 has taken over the low end coax market, it's well made,
> cheap, easy to find and can be gotten in regular, direct burial and
> long distance hanging (with attched steel wire) versions.

Yes, it's dirt cheap, but I still use the right cable. If you looked
at that NOAA sketch you will see that the connector was a SO-238 UHF
connector. You can get an adapter for RG-59 for the PL-259 mating
connector, but I haven't looked for any for the newer RG-6 Double
braid/double shielded coax. Hams around here prefer RG-8X.

> For reception, the difference in impedance is meaningless and many hams are
> using it for transmitting. Most hams use it for transmitters of 100 watts or
> less, but some have reported using it for 500. (ouch).
>
> > It is a RCA/Phono connector. I have the same unit. Use the right
> > connector if you want good reception. You can see it in the photo of
> > the rear panel on page 5.
>
> That's a lot easier. I have RG-6 compression RCA connectors. Strip the
> coax with simple tool, trim the center conductor and squeeze. I bought
> 50 of them off of ebay including the compression tool for $50.
>
> F to RCA adapators are easy to get an cheap.
>
> > A VHF ground plane cut for 162.475 MHz will cover the VHF frequencies
> > used by NOAA: 162.40, 162.425, 162.45, 162.475, 162.50, 162.525, 162.55
> > MHz
> >
> > There is a sketch on the NOAA website showing the proper dimensions:
> > http://www.erh.noaa.gov/cae/images/antenna.gif
>
> Ground planes are more difficult to make, he asked for cheap and simple
> and a dipole will do it. Almost anything from 15 to 20 inches a leg
> will do. I picked 18 as it's a foot and half and simple to measure and make.
> Making it out of tubing instead of wire makes broadband enough that it will
> cover all of his VHF scanning needs.

Difficult? I've made them in less than 15 minutes with a 1/4
electric drill and hand tools. It would be less than 10 if you have
access to a drill press and a drill vise.

How are you going to keep dirt and water out of the top end of the
coax with a dipole?

> Two meter ham band antennas, of which I've made many, need to be 19 inches,
> so 18 is close enough for 162mHz, and is simple. If the person building
> it buys 3 feet of tubing, and cuts it in half, it will work well.
>
> >
> > The NOAA transmitters use vertical polarization.
>
> Good to konw, and it probably will be what he needs, but he may have
> reflections, hills, buildings, etc in the way so it always is better to
> try than not.

I have always had good results with a ground plane antenna, and poor
with anything else. A Yagi could be used, but less than 1% of the US is
in an area that needs the gain. Most areas can pick up two or three
different transmitters, but you want to use the closest, because of
NOAA's S.A.M.E that can tailor the alerts to a single area.

I have used a weather radio or scanner on NOAA for decades.

--
You can't fix stupid. You can't even put a Band-Aid™ on it, because it's
Teflon coated.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Peavey PV2000 slave amp
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/9121270861344413?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 5:03 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Sun, 15 May 2011 08:34:09 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

> Meat Plow <mhywattt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:pan.2011.05.14.19.24.30@emutt.macspoofer.lmao...
>> On Sat, 14 May 2011 15:47:18 +0100, N_Cook wrote:
>>
>> > At least these amps have separate LV DC supplies and the biasing part
>> > can be probed out of casing , powered from +/-15V bench ps without
>> > +/-92V around
>> >
>> > TO92 60V, 0.6A , 9V on one end of the 47K base resistor and 8mV on
>> > the other. Checks out DVM diode test and no obvious DVM resistance
>> > between pins. Now removed can see ,under x30, slight build up of
>> > corrossion crud where the legs enter the plastic, marginally more
>> > than the layer of corrossion over the rest of the legs. I will let
>> > the owner see the result under pocket magnifier , that and bill might
>> > change his storage arrangements.
>>
>> Some people just don't realize that electronics of this type really
>> need to be stored in a climate controlled storage unit.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse
>
>
> The other owner , with the Crest audio amps thought covering with a
> plastic sheet , include a bag of silical gel, and leave in a Dutch barn
> was sufficient. He never even recharged the silica gel - having no
> knowledge of that process.
>
> I wonder why TO92 and not TO220 or TO3 fail in these circumstances. I
> suppose the leads corrode and swell and then like concrete spalling due
> to rusting of rebar, the plastic splits enough for capilliary water
> condensate to migrate up into the die. Something to do with small
> diameter leads for TO92?
> I will try to remember to split open this TO92 and see if it cleaves
> along the corrossion plane.
> Different maker to the Crest TO92 so not a batch problem.

I think the corrosion infiltrated the die. Like ice crystals in concrete
as you said. Repeated heat thaw cycles exacerbate the issue. Furthermore,
not having a fresh/sufficient desiccant furthers the process. Why the
TO92 suffers more would only be guessing. May be a batch issue. I know
there are plenty that don't suffer from extreme conditions. But they may
be saved from frequent use.

--
Live Fast Die Young, Leave A Pretty Corpse

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TOPIC: Electric mower battery
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a079faa9f877be2f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, May 15 2011 7:01 pm
From: "Guv Bob"

"mike" <spamme9@gmail.com> wrote in message news:iosru3$8vv$1@dont-email.me...
> Guv Bob wrote:
> > Many thanks fellers for the lessons on batteries! I am now 3-5 times smarter than I wuz (about batteries)! Which ain't saying that much according to the lovely wife. LOL!!! Really appreciate pointing me to the less expensive sources and alternatives too.
> >
> > Bob
> >
> >
> > "Guv Bob" <guvbob2003@YAHOOOOOOOOEY.com> wrote in message news:Da2dnVQ04MtyNTXQnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> > Got a dumb question.... I have an electric mower that uses two 12V lead acid batteries wired in series to give 24V. The batteries are marked 18Ah. Cost is around $100 for one 12v, or $140 for 2 in series, including shipping.
> >
> > For the same money or less, I can get two std 12v car batteries and end up with more amp hours to boot, which would be good for a mower. Heavier to push around, but that's not a problem.
> >
> > I don't know nuthin about how amp-hours work - reckon this would be a good idea? Anyone had experience with this kind of thing before?
> >
> > Bob
> >
> It's more complicated than that.
> Let's do some math...
> There's lots of marketing hype and specsmanship involved. Let's ignore
> all that for now
> and just look at round numbers.
>
> If your typical gas lawnmower is 3Horsepower, it takes 2250 watts/24 =
> 94 AMPS to equal it in an electric mower...again, ignoring possibly
> significant
> losses that make the numbers much worse.
>
> Mowing short grass probably requires much less than the 3HP number,
> so measuring under load would be good.
>
> You can probably buy a cheap 18AH battery that can put out 0.9Amps for
> 20 hours...for a few cycles anyway.
> Even the BEST battery can't put out 18A for an hour. Google will give you
> lots of info on that relationship.
> The cheap battery really shows its cheapness
> at high current loads.
>
> And, as mentioned, don't consider anything BUT a deep discharge design.
> It's quite possible to build a proper lead-acid battery charger. But that
> doesn't mean that the one that came with the mower is a proper design.
> An excellent battery with poor maintenance and poor charge control
> won't have a long life.
>
> So, if you have a small yard and you mow short grass and you charge it
> after every mow, and before, if it's been a while, and periodically
> over the winter and you don't "I hear it slowing down, but I just have
> 100 more feet to go", run it into deep discharge, it might be worth the
> cost of batteries.
>
> And don't forget they're running the crap out of that small motor.
> My electric edger gets so hot that it melts the plastic brush holders.
> I fixed it three times before it had to be discarded.
>
>
> For most of us, a used gas mower would be a better use of the funds.
> That assertion is supported by the high percentage of electric mowers
> found at garage sales.

Thanks for the info. I've got about 3000 sq ft to mow and my electric does it all once and sometimes twice before starting to slow down. And I don't cut it often enough - gets a good 2-3 inches longer than it should sometimes, and plenty of crab grass to cut thru.

I think I found out the real problem in my case. Starting it on days below 70 deg F it runs very slow for the first 10 minutes and then runs fine. On warm days, the motor runs fine right off the bat. Probably because recently I dripped motor oil to run down along motor shaft. Should not have done that.

This mower is from a garage sale bought about 10 years ago. I put a new battery in it then and still seems to be OK on a full charge. No plans to switch back to gasoline for me. No smoke, no gas fumes, no oil, no cleanup spills and no danger of leaking and causing a fire in storage.

I see where they have 36V mowers now that are self-propelled. Fairly expensive, but sometimes the local air pollution district has a 'trade in' program that gives you $100-200 off coupons for trading in a gas mower.

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