sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* Tools to View, Save & Edit Flash Drive Properties? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f0fa0a23f84aeb57?hl=en
* Phil, Gareth, Trevor, anyone ... ? - 10 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4851db88522f901d?hl=en
* Centronix gender? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/11a01a13e1df3c26?hl=en
* Trying to understand the current draw of a Samsung Galaxy S3 under GPS & low
battery - 11 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1dceb0f9a68c6f2d?hl=en
* Active device nonsense - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/58fd5bf0893d5f4a?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tools to View, Save & Edit Flash Drive Properties?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f0fa0a23f84aeb57?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 1:22 pm
From: dave


On 01/31/2014 01:06 PM, dave wrote:
> On 01/31/2014 08:09 AM, KenO wrote:
>> hrho,
>>
>> "1GB drives are so cheap it is probably not worth spending much time
>> on it."
>>
>> I view it as a learning project so do not mind spending time researching.
>>
>> Plus since it is not working I can not do any harm.
>>
>> Hope you may have some ideas.
>>
>> Ken
>>
>
> You mean like GPartEd on Linux?


http://www.gparted.org/index.php





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Phil, Gareth, Trevor, anyone ... ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4851db88522f901d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 1:48 pm
From: Baron


N_Cook scribbled thus:

> Which reminds me I was going to find out,but forgot, how the
> unpowered, delay-open, door catches work on washing machines

Thermal device !

--
Best Regards:
Baron.




== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 2:18 pm
From: jurb6006@gmail.com


I had a quick look at the print and I can't say for sure, but I think it's possible that the magnets are there to aid the return springs. Looks like this baby can put out some serious current.

>"But if for some reason the current stops, then the contacts
remain closed until reverse powered open perhaps at start-up. ..."

Nope, nothing like that on the print.




== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 4:51 pm
From: "Gareth Magennis"




wrote in message
news:ab77ae6f-0054-4c0c-b1e1-8e6fcd868b2f@googlegroups.com...

I had a quick look at the print and I can't say for sure, but I think it's
possible that the magnets are there to aid the return springs. Looks like
this baby can put out some serious current.

>"But if for some reason the current stops, then the contacts
remain closed until reverse powered open perhaps at start-up. ..."

Nope, nothing like that on the print.





Perhaps something along this line:

http://www.ia.omron.com/data_pdf/data_sheet/x_dsheet_csm570.pdf



Gareth.





== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 8:28 pm
From: "Phil Allison"



"Gareth Magennis"
>> Arfa
>
> Not seen one of those before.
>
> As for the magents, I believe they might be something to do with affecting
> the arcing between contacts under various fault conditions?
>
> Phil will know the complete details as I remember him posting on here
> before about it.
>

** Someone has a good memory.

Similar magnets are attached to the relays in certain BGW amplifiers (
1980s, US made heavy weights) and no doubt for the same reason.

The purpose is to enhance the DC breaking capacity of the contacts - with DC
supplies above about 60V, ordinary relays cannot break arc that forms upon
opening IF the amp " goes DC".

The magnetic force causes arc to form into a U shape, making it longer and
far more likely to break.

IME, an 80V DC supply feeding into a 4ohm load via a large relay will break
this way - but *just* and probably only once !!!!!

It would have NO chance without the magnetic field.


... Phil






== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 2:35 am
From: N_Cook


On 31/01/2014 21:48, Baron wrote:
> N_Cook scribbled thus:
>
>> Which reminds me I was going to find out,but forgot, how the
>> unpowered, delay-open, door catches work on washing machines
>
> Thermal device !
>

resourceful stuff that bimetal, from watch escapements , via vehicle
lamp flashers, flourescent tube starters to washing machines, it gets
everywhere




== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 2:55 am
From: "Arfa Daily"




"Phil Allison" <phil_a@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:bl3bgfFgm4uU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Gareth Magennis"
>>> Arfa
>>
>> Not seen one of those before.
>>
>> As for the magents, I believe they might be something to do with
>> affecting the arcing between contacts under various fault conditions?
>>
>> Phil will know the complete details as I remember him posting on here
>> before about it.
>>
>
> ** Someone has a good memory.
>
> Similar magnets are attached to the relays in certain BGW amplifiers (
> 1980s, US made heavy weights) and no doubt for the same reason.
>
> The purpose is to enhance the DC breaking capacity of the contacts - with
> DC supplies above about 60V, ordinary relays cannot break arc that forms
> upon opening IF the amp " goes DC".
>
> The magnetic force causes arc to form into a U shape, making it longer and
> far more likely to break.
>
> IME, an 80V DC supply feeding into a 4ohm load via a large relay will
> break this way - but *just* and probably only once !!!!!
>
> It would have NO chance without the magnetic field.
>
>
> ... Phil
>

Thank you Phil. That makes a lot of sense. Have you done much work on these
? I currently have seven of them in, all of which seem to have faults in the
very complex protection circuit, which amongst other things, cuts the supply
to an opamp on the power amp boards, which then causes the amp to actually
produce some DC on its output ...

Arfa





== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 6:05 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"



Perhaps something along this line:

http://www.ia.omron.com/data_pdf/data_sheet/x_dsheet_csm570.pdf






Or better still, this:
http://www.serelays.com/library/section6/105A_199.pdf



Gareth.





== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 6:57 am
From: "Arfa Daily"




"Gareth Magennis" <gareth.magennis@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Xa7Hu.464$Y17.396@fx15.am4...
>
> Perhaps something along this line:
>
> http://www.ia.omron.com/data_pdf/data_sheet/x_dsheet_csm570.pdf
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Or better still, this:
> http://www.serelays.com/library/section6/105A_199.pdf
>
>
>
> Gareth.
>
>

Very interesting ...

Arfa





== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 10:20 am
From: jurb6006@gmail.com


>"Similar magnets are attached to the relays in certain BGW amplifiers (
1980s, US made heavy weights) and no doubt for the same reason. "

You Sir, have redeemed yourself. I thought it impossibble really. Take a bow(ow) LOL.

I shit you not. I'm a pretty fart smeller y'know and I was sure it had something to do with the ridiculous eardrum-melting current but in my morning after you actually opened up a little corner of my mind that had been dormant for some time. I KNEW it had something to do with current, but to extrapolate, it is wholly possible that such an amplifier would be driving a chiefly inductive load. WTF did I think was going to happen with 80 fucking volts across a (voice) coil ?

<(me)DUMKOPF ! It's not a weak spring, it's the fact that plasma can melt even the shiniest of silver plating and weld it quite effectively. One of those moments.

Now I know why we keep you around you autistic, Tourettite scallywag scoundrel !

Back to your regularly scheduled bullshit. Be well. And don't forget to eat shit and die !

LOL

(I mean it Phil, I would heve never thought of that in, well, not a MILLION years but maybe a thousand)




== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 10:57 am
From: "Gareth Magennis"




"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bl3bgfFgm4uU1@mid.individual.net...


"Gareth Magennis"
>> Arfa
>
> Not seen one of those before.
>
> As for the magents, I believe they might be something to do with affecting
> the arcing between contacts under various fault conditions?
>
> Phil will know the complete details as I remember him posting on here
> before about it.
>

** Someone has a good memory.

Similar magnets are attached to the relays in certain BGW amplifiers (
1980s, US made heavy weights) and no doubt for the same reason.

The purpose is to enhance the DC breaking capacity of the contacts - with DC
supplies above about 60V, ordinary relays cannot break arc that forms upon
opening IF the amp " goes DC".

The magnetic force causes arc to form into a U shape, making it longer and
far more likely to break.

IME, an 80V DC supply feeding into a 4ohm load via a large relay will break
this way - but *just* and probably only once !!!!!

It would have NO chance without the magnetic field.


... Phil




Phil, you have to also tell us the extremely relevant story of grounding the
speaker relay's normally off terminal, so a "DC fault" amplifier doesn't fry
the speakers via the arc that doesn't die.
(In the absence of a magnet)
I remember you posting about that somewhere too.

This stuff does stay in my head sometimes you know.


Cheers,

Gareth.






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Centronix gender?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/11a01a13e1df3c26?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 2:05 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"



Cydrome Leader wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Cydrome Leader wrote:
> >>
> >> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I never soldered them. I used a crimper to install pins for a
> >> > new DB25. :)
> >>
> >> That reminds me of those white and red pin extractor tools. I just
> >> saw one pop up not too long ago.
> >
> >
> > I've used thin brass tubing when the right extractor wasn't
> > available. :)
>
> It's always the last pin or shell that just won't come out or has the
> locking splays break off during the battle to be removed.That happensquite often if you don't push the wire in to pull the tabs away from the housing. Other times it's from excessive pulling on the wire, till it deforms the tabs.





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Trying to understand the current draw of a Samsung Galaxy S3 under GPS &
low battery
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1dceb0f9a68c6f2d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 2:28 pm
From: "Neil Gould"


Danny D. wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 17:23:56 +0000, Danny D. wrote:
>
>> The enigma is that, if the charger is actually putting
>> out 2.1 Amps, then, why isn't 2.1 Amps enough to run the S3?
>
> I should note that I *do* realize the charger doesn't
> "put out" current (as it does voltage); what I meant,
> clarified, is:
>
> The enigma is that, if the charger is capable of
> sourcing 2.1 Amps, then, why isn't that enough to
> run the Samsung Galaxy S3 with operative GPS?
>
Have you verified that the charger is delivering even 1 Amp (that would be
more than adequate, since that is above what the phone requires)? Testing it
isn't all that difficult, but it does require some knowledge of electronics.

The charging circuit in the phone determines how much power is used to
operate the phone and other functions such as GPS vs. recharging the
battery. It is possible that the design of that circuit will not supply
adequate power to other functions when the battery is down to 17%.
--
best regards,

Neil







== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 2:42 pm
From: TJ


On 01/31/2014 12:17 PM, Danny D. wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 07:01:29 -0800, dave wrote:
>
>> Turn off GPS.
>> Turn off mobile data
>> Voice and Text are not on Mobile Data.
>
> Luckily, I don't even have mobile data.
> I do use GPS navigation all the time in the car though.
> That's the whole point!
>
> If the phone can't keep up with the GPS while
> on the car charger, um, what good is GPS?
>
> Note: I have gone on long trips (4 hours), and
> if the battery is charged (say, >50%) it stays
> at about that level; but if the battery is low
> (say <20%), then the battery steadily depletes.
>
> That's the enigma I'm trying to understand.
>
Perhaps your best solution would be to use the phone as a phone, and
purchase a separate GPS unit to use for navigation.

TJ




== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 11:05 pm
From: Danny D'Amico


On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 17:42:44 -0500, TJ wrote:

> Perhaps your best solution would be to use the phone as a phone, and
> purchase a separate GPS unit to use for navigation.

Yeah. Maybe. I get your point.
But, I think that there is something *wrong* that I can diagnose and fix.

1. It could be rogue apps sucking power.
2. The battery tests good - but it could be the battery.
3. The charger needs to be tested to see what current it supplies.
4. It could be a design flaw

I'm sure there are lots of potential reasons, but, what I'm going
to do is try to measure the actual current in the USB cable.

For that, I plan to sacrifice a cable and hook up some test leads.





== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 11:08 pm
From: Danny D'Amico


On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 18:25:42 -0500, Neil Gould wrote:

> Have you verified that the charger is delivering even 1 Amp

Nope. All I know is what is printed on the charger.
So, it *could* be simply that the charger isn't sourcing the
rated current.

I plan on sacrificing a USB cable to that I can hook an
ammeter in series to test the actual current flowing.

> It is possible that the design of that circuit will not supply
> adequate power to other functions when the battery is down to 17%.

I hope not, but I certainly understand what you're saying.
That's why I'm asking here - which is to see if others have similar
issues - or if it's just me.





== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 3:16 am
From: "Chris Uppal"


Danny D'Amico wrote:

> OPEN QUESTIONS:
> - I still don't know how to tell how much current is actually drawn.

I've mentioned, in a recent thread, that you can buy in-line USB ammeters; the
one I use is from portapow.co.uk/ (who also sell power-only cables and other
goodies). Available on Amazon.

(BTW, there was some discussion in that thread of whether data could flow
through the meter -- it seems to be OK through the portapower gadget, though I
won't want to trust it for important data)

> - None of the Android battery apps I tried gave current draw in amps.
> - Instead, they listed charge in cryptic terms such as "12%/h".

"CurrentWidget" will display amps if the data is available, but the output
isn't consistant with (always much lower than) the portapower gadget's reports.
Presumably they are reporting different things.

And, reverting to your earlier puzzlement, maybe the reason why your phone
discharges faster when < ~17% full is that below that limit it is firing up
bluetooth to warn you that power is low. Above that limit it doesn't bother so
its overall power consumption is lower, thus allowing it to charge (or at
least, not discharge) on nett.

-- chris






== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 3:17 am
From: Capt Rick


On Sat, 1 Feb 2014 07:08:11 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
<danny@is.invalid> wrote in part:


>I plan on sacrificing a USB cable to that I can hook an
>ammeter in series to test the actual current flowing.

No need to sacrifice a USB cable. Measure the current going into the
cigarette lighter adapter. Measure without the Galaxy plugged in for
any idle current. Plug in the Galaxy. Subtract idle current then
multiply by 2.52 for a rough figure - 12.6V / 5V = 2.52. For more
accuracy measure the actual 12V Voltage and the actual 5V Voltage of
the USB output.

The current will be less on the 12V end because it is a step down
circuit. Just for example, if 1A on the 12V side, 12.6V X 1A = 12.6
Watts / 5V X 2.52A = 12.6 Watts.

Rick




== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 5:59 am
From: Gordon Levi


Danny D'Amico <danny@is.invalid> wrote:

>On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 17:42:44 -0500, TJ wrote:
>
>> Perhaps your best solution would be to use the phone as a phone, and
>> purchase a separate GPS unit to use for navigation.
>
>Yeah. Maybe. I get your point.
>But, I think that there is something *wrong* that I can diagnose and fix.
>
>1. It could be rogue apps sucking power.
>2. The battery tests good - but it could be the battery.
>3. The charger needs to be tested to see what current it supplies.
>4. It could be a design flaw
>
>I'm sure there are lots of potential reasons, but, what I'm going
>to do is try to measure the actual current in the USB cable.
>
>For that, I plan to sacrifice a cable and hook up some test leads.

For five dollars with free shipping you may prefer this
<http://tinyurl.com/maqfv9r>. I don't own anything similar so I can't
provide a recommendation. As I understand it, the cheap ones like this
can't pass through the data.




== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 6:07 am
From: TJ


On 02/01/2014 02:05 AM, Danny D'Amico wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 17:42:44 -0500, TJ wrote:
>
>> Perhaps your best solution would be to use the phone as a phone, and
>> purchase a separate GPS unit to use for navigation.
>
> Yeah. Maybe. I get your point.
> But, I think that there is something *wrong* that I can diagnose and fix.
>
> 1. It could be rogue apps sucking power.
> 2. The battery tests good - but it could be the battery.
> 3. The charger needs to be tested to see what current it supplies.
> 4. It could be a design flaw
>
> I'm sure there are lots of potential reasons, but, what I'm going
> to do is try to measure the actual current in the USB cable.
>
> For that, I plan to sacrifice a cable and hook up some test leads.
>
I'd discount 4. Too many of those units around. A design flaw would have
surfaced by now. That's not to say your particular phone isn't
malfunctioning, though. A couple of years ago I purchased a
factory-authorized reconditioned Samsung 23" LCD monitor. It worked
great - for a year - before it succumbed to the infamous
bad-capacitor-in-the-power-supply syndrome. But things worked out,
because I replaced it with a new AOC LED-backlit monitor which draws
less power, has an easily-replaceable external power supply, and works
even better than the Samsung. Even so, it taught me that buying Samsung
is not necessarily a guarantee of long service.

It sounds like you've run down your battery several times. That's not
good for them. From what I read, it shortens the life expectancy. If
it's been in service for a year or more, and you've run it in a
low-charge condition repeatedly, it would be my prime suspect.

The Chinese-made charger would be my second. My third would be that
you're trying to make the phone do more heavy-duty multitasking than
it's designed to handle.

TJ




== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 6:13 am
From: TJ


On 02/01/2014 06:17 AM, Capt Rick wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Feb 2014 07:08:11 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
> <danny@is.invalid> wrote in part:
>
>
>> I plan on sacrificing a USB cable to that I can hook an
>> ammeter in series to test the actual current flowing.
>
> No need to sacrifice a USB cable. Measure the current going into the
> cigarette lighter adapter. Measure without the Galaxy plugged in for
> any idle current. Plug in the Galaxy. Subtract idle current then
> multiply by 2.52 for a rough figure - 12.6V / 5V = 2.52. For more
> accuracy measure the actual 12V Voltage and the actual 5V Voltage of
> the USB output.
>
> The current will be less on the 12V end because it is a step down
> circuit. Just for example, if 1A on the 12V side, 12.6V X 1A = 12.6
> Watts / 5V X 2.52A = 12.6 Watts.
>
> Rick
>
Don't know about modern vehicles, but I believe that with older ones if
the vehicle is running, the alternator puts the voltage at more like
13.6V, especially if it's still charging the battery after starting the
engine. Could be higher with a high-output alternator. They cut back
once the battery is charged, but there is that period of time where it's
higher.

TJ




== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 6:17 am
From: "(PeteCresswell)"


Per dave:
>Turn off GPS. It will drain your battery fast.

That's what I keep reading, but it does not match my experience with a
Samsung 10" Note.

I rooted the thing and cleaned out everything I could think of and it
holds a charge so well that I hardly ever turn it off.

With GPS on I can leave it with screen black for a day and it will lose
less than 5% of it's charge. OTOH, maybe GPS is not working when the
screen is black..... ??
--
Pete Cresswell




== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 6:21 am
From: "(PeteCresswell)"


Per TJ:
>Perhaps your best solution would be to use the phone as a phone, and
>purchase a separate GPS unit to use for navigation.

I think he would be on the wrong side of history if he did that.

I gave my Garmin Nuvi away last year and have been using Sygic on my 5"
and 10" Notes ever since.

I'm not a heavy driver, but so far I would have to say that Sygic is
plenty good enough for me - in fact, it's turn advisories are somewhat
better than the Garmin.

Only place I'd fault it is announcements of route recomputation. Garmin
would right away say "Recomputing Route" as soon as I departed from it's
route. Sygic issues a couple of "Make A U-Turn" directives and then
just silently recomputes the route. I found that disconcerting and a
little confusing at first but now that I know what's coming I'm used to
it.
--
Pete Cresswell





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Active device nonsense
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/58fd5bf0893d5f4a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 31 2014 7:09 pm
From: "Phil Allison"



"William Sommerwanker is a Pschyo Cunt"


> I don't care what most people think.


** The meaning of all words and terms IS what people think they mean.

Autistic fuckwits like WS cannot grasp this obvious truism.


> I only care about the truth.


** Shame how YOU are the biggest DAMN LIAR out.




.... Phi






== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 4:35 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"


"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:bl36qqFfrdcU1@mid.individual.net...

> I don't care what most people think.

** The meaning of all words and terms IS what people think they mean.

That's one of the reasons the world is so screwed up.




== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 12:04 pm
From: mike


On 1/30/2014 7:09 AM, William Sommerwerck wrote:

> I don't care what most people think.

So, why keep trying to make them care what
you think?




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