sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Advice sought Pioneer SX-434 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/22917db8bf1b316a?hl=en
* Trying to understand the current draw of a Samsung Galaxy S3 under GPS & low
battery - 11 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1dceb0f9a68c6f2d?hl=en
* Phil, Gareth, Trevor, anyone ... ? - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4851db88522f901d?hl=en
* Samsung Notebook, crash to black - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/079855ceb3d08c3c?hl=en
* 34970A logger loss of serial com - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/41b8c594179c76f4?hl=en
* New facts about the pyramids: a new miracle of the Qur'an - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d8b193e8a6ff0359?hl=en
* Lionel train question - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/96607f75fdffab21?hl=en
* Harmon Kardon MS-150 ... - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/94492aa4601f463c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Advice sought Pioneer SX-434
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/22917db8bf1b316a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 7:16 pm
From: josephkk


On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 17:40:58 -0800, etpm@whidbey.com wrote:

>Greetings All,
>I have an old reciever/amplifier, the Pioneer SX-434. My folks bought
>it back in 1973 or '72. I think. Anyway, it sounded great when I was
>in high school and then later when it somehow migrated to my house in
>the early '80s. Somewhere along the way it was relegated to the garage
>and then the basement in my new house. It has not been powered up in
>years, at least 15. But it worked great then. Now it has a chance to
>provide me with listening pleasure once again. In my machine shop. I
>need new speakers, I gave the old ones away. But before I hook up new
>speakers and plug in the iPod, is there anything I should ckeck first?
>Should I open it up and look for stuff coming out of electrolytic
>capacitors? Should it be run at a low volume for a period of time? I
>would love to have the thing working for me again. A little nostalgia.
>My dad, who will be 80 in a couple months, would be delighted to hear
>it when he comnes by to visit. He doesn't even know I still have it.
>Thanks,
>Eric
>
>---
>This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>http://www.avast.com

Given that brand and vintage i would just go for it. That said, mroberds
advice to exercize all the controls first is good advice.

?-)





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Trying to understand the current draw of a Samsung Galaxy S3 under GPS &
low battery
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/1dceb0f9a68c6f2d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 7:45 pm
From: "Danny D."


On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 05:17:38 -0600, Capt Rick wrote:

> No need to sacrifice a USB cable.
> Measure the current going into the
> cigarette lighter adapter.

Now why hadn't I thought of that!

I can just hook an ammeter across the fuse
for the cigarette lighter socket, which
will give me the current being consumed
with, and without the phone being charged!





== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 7:47 pm
From: "Danny D."


On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 09:17:30 -0500, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

> With GPS on I can leave it with screen black for a day and it will lose
> less than 5% of it's charge. OTOH, maybe GPS is not working when the
> screen is black..... ??

Wow. Today I removed the S3 from the wall charger,
and, within 5 hours, the battery was nearly dead.

When I looked to see what was consuming the power,
I found, much to my surprise, that "Google Play Services"
consumed more power than the Android operating system!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7412/12261909853_b6c685ceab_o.gif





== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 7:51 pm
From: "Danny D."


On Fri, 31 Jan 2014 06:59:53 +0000, Andy Burns wrote:

> Does the phone detect the charger as capable of
> delivering high current? If so, it should display
> "Charging A/C" instead of "Charging USB"

Testing for this, I found 4 different possible reports:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7369/12262187304_780eeb227a_o.gif

1. Charging (AC)

2. Charging (USB)

3. Charging

4. Full





== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 1 2014 9:48 pm
From: mroberds@att.net


In sci.electronics.repair Danny D. <dannyd@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 05:17:38 -0600, Capt Rick wrote:
>
>> No need to sacrifice a USB cable. Measure the current going into the
>> cigarette lighter adapter.
>
> I can just hook an ammeter across the fuse for the cigarette lighter
> socket, which will give me the current being consumed with, and
> without the phone being charged!

Check the current across the lighter fuse in three conditions:

1. Nothing plugged in to the lighter socket.

2. Charger plugged in to the lighter socket, but phone not plugged in
to the charger.

3. Charger plugged in to the lighter socket and phone plugged in to
the charger.

1 is because, on some cars, the "lighter" fuse also supplies a small
amount of current for other things, like keeping time in a clock, or
keeping the station memory in the radio - stuff like that. It might not
be weird to measure a few mA on that circuit even with nothing plugged
in to the cigarette lighter.

In newer cars, the trend is to have more fuses for individual circuits,
so this may not happen in your car. If your cigarette lighter switches
on and off with the ignition (a lot of Japanese cars do this), then this
may not happen in your car either.

Matt Roberds





== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 4:28 am
From: Capt Rick


On Sat, 01 Feb 2014 09:13:24 -0500, TJ <TJ@noneofyour.business> wrote:

>On 02/01/2014 06:17 AM, Capt Rick wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Feb 2014 07:08:11 +0000 (UTC), Danny D'Amico
>> <danny@is.invalid> wrote in part:
>>
>>
>>> I plan on sacrificing a USB cable to that I can hook an
>>> ammeter in series to test the actual current flowing.
>>
>> No need to sacrifice a USB cable. Measure the current going into the
>> cigarette lighter adapter. Measure without the Galaxy plugged in for
>> any idle current. Plug in the Galaxy. Subtract idle current then
>> multiply by 2.52 for a rough figure - 12.6V / 5V = 2.52. For more
>> accuracy measure the actual 12V Voltage and the actual 5V Voltage of
>> the USB output.
>>
>> The current will be less on the 12V end because it is a step down
>> circuit. Just for example, if 1A on the 12V side, 12.6V X 1A = 12.6
>> Watts / 5V X 2.52A = 12.6 Watts.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>Don't know about modern vehicles, but I believe that with older ones if
>the vehicle is running, the alternator puts the voltage at more like
>13.6V, especially if it's still charging the battery after starting the
>engine. Could be higher with a high-output alternator. They cut back
>once the battery is charged, but there is that period of time where it's
>higher.
>
>TJ

Yes TJ, the voltage is higher with the engine running. It's
_nominally_ 13.8V, but could really be anywhere from 12 to 15V
depending on engine RPM, load, and battery state of charge. That's why
I mentioned for more accuracy measure the actual 12V Voltage... I see
I didn't mention to do all this with the engine not running and the
ignition switch in ACC :-) In that event the Voltage should be very
close to 12.6.

I also didn't mention the efficiency of the adapter, which could be
anywhere from 75 to 95%. But then I don't think he's looking for a
right-on-the-money current, but more of a ballpark figure. I could be
wrong.

Rick




== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 5:38 am
From: "(PeteCresswell)"


Per Danny D.:
>Wow. Today I removed the S3 from the wall charger,
>and, within 5 hours, the battery was nearly dead.
>
>When I looked to see what was consuming the power,
>I found, much to my surprise, that "Google Play Services"
>consumed more power than the Android operating system!
>
>http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7412/12261909853_b6c685ceab_o.gif

The app that I use to remove unwanted system apps is called App Master.

It allows apps to be put in it's "Recycle Bin" from which they can be
restored.

So I'm not all that hesitant about uninstalling something. If the
device starts getting weird, I just restore it. The trick being, of
course, not to uninstall anything that would prevent App Master from
doing it's Restore thing...
--
Pete Cresswell




== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 6:19 am
From: "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"


(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Danny D.:
>>Wow. Today I removed the S3 from the wall charger,
>>and, within 5 hours, the battery was nearly dead.
>>
>>When I looked to see what was consuming the power,
>>I found, much to my surprise, that "Google Play Services"
>>consumed more power than the Android operating system!
>>
>>http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7412/12261909853_b6c685ceab_o.gif
>
> The app that I use to remove unwanted system apps is called App Master.
>
> It allows apps to be put in it's "Recycle Bin" from which they can be
> restored.
>
> So I'm not all that hesitant about uninstalling something. If the
> device starts getting weird, I just restore it. The trick being, of
> course, not to uninstall anything that would prevent App Master from
> doing it's Restore thing...

Combining both of your posts, is it possible that since Google knows about
all of the apps you bought from them and tracks them, will it attempt to
restore them if you delete them?

I don't know for sure but I have seen automatic updating of apps on my
android devices, and if I bought them (even for free), they try to
reinstall.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379





== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 9:51 am
From: "(PeteCresswell)"


Per Geoffrey S. Mendelson:
>Combining both of your posts, is it possible that since Google knows >about all of the apps you bought from them and tracks them, will it >attempt restore them if you delete them?

Good catch. I never considered that.

I'll start checking. Push comes to shove, I suspect I can uninstall
whatever does those automatic updates.
--
Pete Cresswell




== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 1:03 pm
From: tlvp


On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 05:48:18 +0000 (UTC), mroberds@att.net wrote:

> ... hook an ammeter across the fuse ...

You want the fuse and the ammeter to *share* the current being drawn?
Or you want to measure the current being drawn *through* the fuse?
If the latter, put the ammeter *in series* with the fuse (not across it).

HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp
--
Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP.




== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 2:16 pm
From: Gene E. Bloch


On 2/02/2014, (PeteCresswell) posted:
> Per Geoffrey S. Mendelson:
>> Combining both of your posts, is it possible that since Google knows
>> >about all of the apps you bought from them and tracks them, will it
>> >attempt restore them if you delete them?

> Good catch. I never considered that.

> I'll start checking. Push comes to shove, I suspect I can uninstall
> whatever does those automatic updates.

Google has never tried to restore any app that I have deleted.

Of course, some Google or phone makers' apps can't be deleted. OTOH,
some of those can be disabled; I've never had a disabled app reenabled.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)




== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 2:23 pm
From: Gene E. Bloch


On 2/02/2014, tlvp posted:
> On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 05:48:18 +0000 (UTC), mroberds@att.net wrote:

>> ... hook an ammeter across the fuse ...

> You want the fuse and the ammeter to *share* the current being drawn?
> Or you want to measure the current being drawn *through* the fuse?
> If the latter, put the ammeter *in series* with the fuse (not across
> it).

> HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp

No: *replace* the fuse with the ammeter. Pull the fuse & plug the
ammeter's leads where the fuse's leads went (it's not easy!). Try
soldering wires to the leads of a blown fuse (that's not so easy
either).

Of course, if you knew the exact resistance of the fuse and had a
sufficiently sensitive voltmeter you could measure the drop across the
fuse. Good luck with that!

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Phil, Gareth, Trevor, anyone ... ?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4851db88522f901d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 3:43 am
From: N_Cook


On 01/02/2014 23:45, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
> N_Cook wrote:
>>
>> On 31/01/2014 21:48, Baron wrote:
>>> N_Cook scribbled thus:
>>>
>>>> Which reminds me I was going to find out,but forgot, how the
>>>> unpowered, delay-open, door catches work on washing machines
>>>
>>> Thermal device !
>>>
>>
>> resourceful stuff that bimetal, from watch escapements , via vehicle
>> lamp flashers, flourescent tube starters to washing machines, it gets
>> everywhere
>
>
> Metal cutting saw blades...
>

bi metal yes, but surely just as a hard surface bonded to softer
resilient backing, rather than for its differential temperature
coefficients of expansion, ie bending on heating property




== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 3:50 am
From: N_Cook


I like the bi-metal discs that you get in thermal switches, that
suddenly dome in the opposite sense at a precise temperature, and built
in hysterisis as well , before they will flip back the other way on
lowering of temperature.
Perhaps a bi-metal arrangement , even if requiring some diverted current
doing the heating instead of "in-passing" heating , would work as
heavy-duty DC relays, relying on this strong stored mechanical energy ,
rather than magnetism and springs to break contact




== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 11:39 am
From: mroberds@att.net


N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote:
> Perhaps a bi-metal arrangement , even if requiring some diverted
> current doing the heating instead of "in-passing" heating , would work
> as heavy-duty DC relays, relying on this strong stored mechanical
> energy , rather than magnetism and springs to break contact

Congratulations, you have invented an automotive turn signal (indicator)
flasher! :) The non-electronic ones work this way. Some of them rely
on the bimetal heating itself up from the lamp current, and some of them
have a small heating element to do it. Ratings to around 12 A at 12 V
DC nominal are available.

Matt Roberds






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Samsung Notebook, crash to black
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/079855ceb3d08c3c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 4:46 am
From: N_Cook


Decided, at this stage, could have been caused by loose clothing up
against the fan outlet grill. So glued on 2 halves of a bumpon either
side of the grill to avoid a simple cloth drape blocking the feeble fan
flow.






==============================================================================
TOPIC: 34970A logger loss of serial com
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/41b8c594179c76f4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 11:53 am
From: legg


While running a fairly lengthy series of trials, the HP34970A logger
started to flash it's front panal display and issue beeps, much as it
does(but only once) when power is first applied. It wouldn't turn off
from the front panel. Recycling from the line cord got the same
behavior.

Disengaging the interconnecting cartridges/harness from the unit got
it behaving normally, so that's something to look at, but the big
problem is that the 34970A will no longer communicate over the serial
port with similar cartridges present, unconnected to the test harness.

One thing odd is an error message occurring at power on - error 913
'module reported nonvolatile memory fault'. This error is not reported
when the self-test sequence is run. It occurs only when a 34907
multi-function module, used during the initial testing fault, is
installed in any slot at turn on. I'm working on com issues without
this module installed. The health of that module is just one more
thing to look at.

The 34970A seems perfectly normal otherwise, programming and
functioning from the front panel. The issue is getting serial
communications re-established. I'm using fresh, known good USB-serial
adaptors on the PC, of the same type used during previous long and
successful communication history, and proven null modem harnessing
with the same provenance.

Lack of communication is evidenced by failure to respond to IDN query,
using Visa software interface from either Agilent (secondary) or
Tektronix (primary). Benchlink datalogger sofware generally links
through the secondary Visa without an issue, but the same IDN query
can be generated using other software.

I've scoped the MC145407 interface, and it seems completely healthy,
with all voltages normal and all input signals correctly processed,
but there's nothing coming back from the PC16550 for a response.

All internal supply voltages are present and accounted for, with no
physical signs of overloading or damage, so far. Agilent forums are
silent on the issue, so far, but I don't think many hardware guys
bother monitoring things there.

RL




== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 3:42 pm
From: "Maynard A. Philbrook Jr."


In article <9g8te9pt11c0q8nc5fg3r26hogm6hgip8p@4ax.com>,
legg@nospam.magma.ca says...
> All internal supply voltages are present and accounted for, with no
> physical signs of overloading or damage, so far. Agilent forums are
> silent on the issue, so far, but I don't think many hardware guys
> bother monitoring things there.
>
> RL
>
>

I don't know the inside of that unit but if it is any
thing like some equipment we have at work that uses
Intel based mother boards, many things do, the CMOS
battery could be bad and with that, your IRQ settings
are now incorrect and can't link with all the hardware
install.

One example here is, we had to configure INT 11, which
was talking to the custom PCI IO card to operate in legacy
mode, otherwise, it just didn't think any connected devices
was there and reported errors..

If this is the case, you may even have more custom data
being stored that was calibration data from HP that is now
out in left field.

It would be interesting to know if this does in fact have an
Intel board in it. If so, it could also have a video and keyboard
port.

jamie




== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 3 2014 2:42 am
From: JW


On Sun, 02 Feb 2014 14:53:47 -0500 legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in
Message id: <9g8te9pt11c0q8nc5fg3r26hogm6hgip8p@4ax.com>:

>While running a fairly lengthy series of trials, the HP34970A logger
>started to flash it's front panal display and issue beeps, much as it
>does(but only once) when power is first applied. It wouldn't turn off
>from the front panel. Recycling from the line cord got the same
>behavior.
>
>Disengaging the interconnecting cartridges/harness from the unit got
>it behaving normally, so that's something to look at, but the big
>problem is that the 34970A will no longer communicate over the serial
>port with similar cartridges present, unconnected to the test harness.
>
>One thing odd is an error message occurring at power on - error 913
>'module reported nonvolatile memory fault'. This error is not reported
>when the self-test sequence is run. It occurs only when a 34907
>multi-function module, used during the initial testing fault, is
>installed in any slot at turn on. I'm working on com issues without
>this module installed. The health of that module is just one more
>thing to look at.
>
>The 34970A seems perfectly normal otherwise, programming and
>functioning from the front panel. The issue is getting serial
>communications re-established. I'm using fresh, known good USB-serial
>adaptors on the PC, of the same type used during previous long and
>successful communication history, and proven null modem harnessing
>with the same provenance.
>
>Lack of communication is evidenced by failure to respond to IDN query,
>using Visa software interface from either Agilent (secondary) or
>Tektronix (primary). Benchlink datalogger sofware generally links
>through the secondary Visa without an issue, but the same IDN query
>can be generated using other software.
>
>I've scoped the MC145407 interface, and it seems completely healthy,
>with all voltages normal and all input signals correctly processed,
>but there's nothing coming back from the PC16550 for a response.
>
>All internal supply voltages are present and accounted for, with no
>physical signs of overloading or damage, so far. Agilent forums are
>silent on the issue, so far, but I don't think many hardware guys
>bother monitoring things there.
>
>RL

You may have a weak backup battery. If it's settings are lost it will
revert back to GPIB default instead of serial communication. Check the
communications options under the utility menu.





==============================================================================
TOPIC: New facts about the pyramids: a new miracle of the Qur'an
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d8b193e8a6ff0359?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 12:50 pm
From: BV BV


New facts about the pyramids: a new miracle of the Qur'an


Last scientific discovery stated the following: French and U.S. researchers assert that the huge stones used by the Pharaohs to build the pyramids are just clay that has been heated at high temperatures...

http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/images/stories/pyr-0.jpg

Will the pyramids that we know as one of the Seven Wonders survive in the world? Did scientists find an answer to the puzzle of how the pyramids were built in ancient Egypt? Are some people still believe that the Jinn are the builders of these pyramids? Is it possible to believe that creatures from outer space built the pyramids of Egypt? ...

These speculations filled the world and lasted for several centuries, but the new discovery made by scientists from France and America will change the scientists` look forever. It will also give a simple scientific explanation to the mystery of building the pyramids, but more odd is that this mystery has been in the Qur'an fourteen centuries ago!!!

It was believed that the pharaohs have carved the stones but the question here is: How come all the stones are so identical that you cannot find a distance between one stone and another? And where are the equipments and chisels that were used in carving those stones? Until now, they have not been found? This discovery confirms that the scientists were wrong when they thought that the pyramids were built of stones. The nearest answer to logic and truth is to say that the civilization of the pharaohs was built on the clay!!

http://www.kaheel7.com/ar/images/stories/pyr-1.jpg

This is a picture from top of Cheops the Great ` pyramid, as we can notice this pyramid was the highest building in the world with a height up to 146 meters. Millions of stones were used in the construction: each stone weighs several tons. It is an enormous work that gives evidence to the powers the Pharaohs reached before 4500 years ago.

New scientific facts

One of the scientific facts that the great pyramid with the height of 146 meters was the highest building in the world for the last 4500 years and continued until the nineteenth century, The new theory proposed by French Professor Joseph Davidovits, the director of Geopolymer Institute asserts that the pyramids were built mainly of mud and that clay was used as a mean to move the stones on special railway.

The research suggests that the mud and other materials were taken from the Nile`s soil and these materials were put together in tight stone molds .Then they were heated at a high temperature, leading to the interaction of these materials and forming them into stones-like volcanoes stones, which were formed millions of years ago. Scientist Davidovits affirms that the stones which were used to build the pyramids were mainly from limestone, clay and water. The tests made by using Nanotechnology (the branch of engineering that deals with things smaller than 100 nanometers) proved the existence of large quantities of water in these rocks; such quantities do not exist in natural stones.

Furthermore,there is also consistency in the internal structure of stones which confirms that it is unreasonable that these stones were brought, then were carved in this way. The most realistic possibility is that they poured the clay in molds to make identical stones just as today as we pour plastic tools in templates so all the pieces are quite equal and similar.

Electronic microscope was used to analyze samples of the pyramids stones. The result was closer to the opinion of Prof. Davidovits and the quartz crystals appeared clearly as a result of heating the mud. He stated that we don`t have in the nature like these stones which his confirms they were made by the Pharaohs. The analysis by Mini E scale indicated the presence of silicon dioxide too. This is another proof that the stones are not natural.

http://kaheel7.com/userimages/pyramids_02.JPG

The picture shows Professor Michel Barsoum standing next to the Great Pyramid. He stress that these stones were poured into molds of clay! This what he proved in his researches after results of long experiments that these stones are not natural. Pro. Michel Barsoum confirmed after Electronic microscope analysis that they are a result of a quick interaction between clay, limestone and water at high temperatures.

Davidovits famous book entitled "Ils ont bati les pyramides" ,published in France in 2002, has resolved all problems and puzzles which were told about the way that the pyramids were built. Moreover, he put a simple geometric construction mechanism of mud. It was very convincing to many researchers in this field of science. Some researches emphasized that furnaces or stoves were used in ancient times to make ceramics and statues. The common use of fire was to build status of clay, mixed with metals and natural materials. After that, they lit a fire until the statue solidifies and takes the shape of real rocks. Many civilizations used the heated clay for making stones, statues and tools. All researches confirmed the this method used by the pharaohs in high buildings such as pyramids.

They made wooden rails that went round the pyramid in a spiral way like the grapes tabernacle which grows around itself and ascends to the top.

Other researches reach the same result

Other analysis using X-ray proved existence of air bubbles in the samples taken from the pyramids which were formed during the pouring stones from mud and evaporation of water from mud. Furthermore, these bubbles do not exist in natural stones and this adds new evidence that the stones are made of clay and limestone not older than 4700 years.

Mario Collepardi, an Italian Prof. studied the architecture of the pyramids, emphasized that the Pharaohs brought the limestone dust available a lot in their area, mixed it with normal soil. Then they added water from the river Nile and lit fire to a temperature up to 900 degrees Celsius. This heat gave the stone strength and a shape similar to natural rocks.

The new idea does not cost a lot of effort because workers will not carry and raise any stones, all they have to do is to make the templates in which they pour mud and transfer mud from the ground and raise them in small containers. Each worker carries a container with mud to fill the templates. Then comes the process of lighting fire until the stone is shaped and stayed in place making sure by this way that there are no spaces between the stone and the other. Using this method helped in keeping the pyramids safe for thousands of years.

http://kaheel7.com/userimages/pyramids_03.JPG

The picture shows two adjacent stones of the pyramid's stones. We can notice the small oval cavity between them which is referred to by the arrow. It is a proof that the stones had been poured from mud in the rock template because this cavity was formed during casting stones, not as a result of erosion. It is originally out of these stones.

The Scientific fact corresponds with the Quran

After all these facts, we can reach to this result, which is: the technique used in the Age of the Pharaohs to build massive buildings such as pyramids, was mainly using the normal mud available near the River Nile. Then mixing it with water, placing it in templates and finally lighting the fire until it solidifies and stones are shaped the way we see today.

This technique remained hidden as a secret until 1981, when that scientist put his theory. Then in 2006, other scientists proved the validity of the theory, beyond any doubt, by laboratory analysis, this technique was entirely unknown at the time of Quran. But what does the Quran say? Let`s my brothers and sisters consider and praise Allah, Almighty.

After Pharaoh has become an oppressor and declared himself as a God of Egypt!! What did he say to his people, consider this:"Fir'aun (Pharaoh) said: "O chiefs! I know not that you have an ilâh (a god) other than me."( AlQassas : 38). To that extreme extent, his challenge and arrogance reached. However, the Pharaoh did not stop, he wanted to challenge God`s power and build a high monument in order to climb it to see who is Allah Almighty. Therefore, the Pharaoh wanted to prove to his people, the ones who were like him, that Moses (peace be upon him) is not honest, and that the Pharaoh is the only God of the universe!!

The pharaoh asked Haman, his deputy and partner, to build a huge monument to prove to the people that God does not exist. Here Pharaoh resorted to the technique used at that time in construction which was lighting fire on stones in order to pour the needed stones for the monument. The Pharaoh said after that: "So kindle for me (a fire), O Hâmân, to bake (bricks out of) clay, and set up for me a Sarh (a lofty tower, or palace) in order that I may look at (or look for) the Ilâh (God) of Mûsâ (Moses); and verily, I think that he [Mûsâ (Moses)] is one of the liars."( AlQassas : 38).

But what was the result? Look and think of the fate of the Pharaoh, Haman and their soldiers, the Almighty says: (And he and his hosts were arrogant in the land, without right, and they thought that they would never return to us * So We seized him and his hosts, and we threw them all into the sea (and drowned them). So behold (O Muhammad (peace be upon him)) what was the end of the Zâlimûn [wrong-doers, polytheists and those who disbelieved in the Oneness of their Lord (Allâh), or rejected the advice of His Messenger Mûsâ (Moses) (peace be upon him]. .( AlQassas : 39-40).

One might ask, is the monument the same as the Pyramid? We say it is not often. The monument is high as a tower or high lighthouse used in order to ascend to high altitude. Allah punished the Pharaoh and destroyed him. Allah Almighty also destroyed his monument to be a verse for the ones who comes after him. This monument that he build to challenge God was destroyed and we do not find it anywhere. The story of the Pharaoh and his black fate was told by Allah in this verse: "And we destroyed completely all the great works and buildings which Fir'aun (Pharaoh) and his people erected." ( Al Aaraf: 137 ). Already some scattered stones were found buried by sand during thousands of years.

http://kaheel7.com/userimages/pyramids_04444.JPG

The picture shows one of the three pyramids at Giza with the top still covered by a layer of mud. This layer is from the same stone used in building; which indicates that clay was fully used in building the pyramids. This " Pharaonic technology" was perhap a secret of the strength of the pharaonic civilization and kept on as a secret not mentioned even in manuscripts and inscriptions. Therefore, the Qur'an tells us about one of the hidden secrets that cannot be known only to Allah, and this is strong evidence that the Koran is the book of Allah!

The miracle

1. This researcher and other dozens of researchers confirm that clay is the building material of the pyramids, and these buildings are the highest buildings, known from ancient history to the modern era. All these facts confirm that the Quran verse is true and consistent with science and one of the verses of the scientific miracles.

2. The technology of making stones from mud using heat, was not known at the time of revelation of the Qur'an and the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) did not have any knowledge about the way of building the pyramids. Accordingly, this verse is to be considered a great scientific discovery as it linked between the mud and heat as a means of building in the Age of the Pharaohs. On the account of this fact, it led us to know that construction at that time was based on this method. This scientific fact has not been recognized only a few years ago by using very advanced technologies!

3. This miracle is an evidence of full consistency between the Qur'an and science and truthfulness of Allah Almighty when He said about his book: "Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein many a contradiction."(Al Nisaa:82) The verse is a response to the atheists who claim that the Quran was written by Mohammed (peace be upon him), as how can he predict such a matter as the pyramids are far from his time and he never see it before!

4. he certain facts confirm that the Greatest Pyramid in Giza or the so-called pyramid of Cheops was the highest building on earth for 4500 years. It was the Pharaohs famous buildings or monuments. Allah destroyed the monuments and buildings built by the Pharaoh, who claimed divinity, whereas pyramids which were built by other Pharaohs were saved by Allah and kept as a witness of truthfulness of the Book of Allah, the Almighty!

5. In the verse "And we destroyed completely all the great works and buildings which Fir'aun (Pharaoh) and his people erected." Look at the word (erected) which indicates the technique used in ancient Egypt to put the rocks on top of each other! In Arabic language we find the word in "Al Qamoos Al Muhid" dictionary: (erected) build an arbor, (erected the grape arbor: raise the plant on wood, (erected) the house: build the house, put the roof. The result: the word (erected) refers to putting the wood to raise stones up. That what scientists and researchers say today: the Pharaohs used the wooden rails to raise mud by climbing in a spiral way around the building just like a pergola, which wrap around the pillar upon which it is based on in a spiral way.

http://kaheel7.com/userimages/pyramids_05.JPG

The drawing shows the way of building the pyramids through the placing wooden rails in a spiral way in order to transfer mud to make stones, wrapping around the pyramid up just like the bowers grape that wrap around and climb. Allah Almighty used the word (erected) to indicate the geometrical mechanism of constructing buildings and monuments. Mostly destroyed by Allah, leaving only the pyramids to be evidence of the truthfulness of the Qur'an

6. This miracle is an answer to those who claim that our greatest prophet (peace be upon him) took the Sciences and stories from the Bible or from Monk 'Buhira" or the priest "Waraqa bin Nawfal", because the technical construction by mud was not mentioned in the holly Book "AlTorah".On the contrary, any reader of "Torah" comes to a conclusion that stones were brought in from places far from the Pyramids and were natural stones not related to mud. This is what prevented some western scientists from recognition of this scientific discovery because it contradicts the holly book.

7. The research presented by Professor Davidovits invalidated all biblical (The holly book of Torah) claims that thousands of workers have worked for many years in these pyramids. It also invalidates the idea that stones were brought from distant places to build the pyramids. Therefore, we are looking at physical evidence that the Torah story contradicts science.

It means that there is a big difference between the Holly book of Torah and scientific facts, and this shows that the current copy of Torah is written by humans, not from Allah Almighty. This fact was confirmed by the Quran: " Do they not then consider the Qur'ân carefully? Had it been from other than Allâh, they would surely have found therein many a contradiction. (Al Nisaa: 82). It also indicates that the Quran is from Allah Almighty because it always matches science!

Some questions to those who are skeptics of message of Islam

1. How did Prophet Mohammad peace be upon him know about the presence of high buildings Pharaohs build in their time? And if he has derived his information from the Torah, he would have come to the same information mentioned in the Torah. Where did he come up with the idea of architecture at all?

2. How was the Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) aware that technique of clay was used in construction in the Ages of Pharaohs? And what made him talk such historical and metaphysical issues as it would not provide anything to him in his massage. If the Prophet wrote the Quran (as some people claim) it would have been better that he tells them about Arab Legends which are the closet to people to accept his massage!

3. How did Prophet Mohammad (peace be upon him) know that the Pharaoh Claim divinity? And that he build monuments? And how did he learn that these monuments have been destroyed? And only the remains are left as an evidence of their existence in the past. Allah Almighty says: (And those are their dwellings, which have not been inhabited after them except a little. And verily! We have been the inheritors.)(Al Qassas :58)

4. Is it possible If Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) wrote the Quran to say such a thing:

"Do they not travel in the land, and see what was the end of those before them? They were superior to them in strength, and they tilled the earth and populated it in greater numbers than these (pagans) have done: and there came to them their Messengers with clear proofs. Surely, Allâh wronged them not, but they used to wrong themselves." (Al Room: 9) Allah Almighty makes contemplating through these pyramids and other ancient monuments remain a mean of realizing Allah`s power and fate of arrogant people who challenge Allah.

These facts are physical proofs reflected in Allah`s holly book that shows the truthfulness of this book, one might say: The theory of building the pyramids by mud had not become a scientific fact, so how do you explain the Quran with such theory, and I say: this theory did not come from a nowhere but it was a result of scientific and laboratory analysis and does not contradict reality. It matches the Quran. However the science develops, it will not discover facts, and only the ones which match the Quran, in order these facts are means of seeing miracles of Allah in his book. He said: "We will show them Our Signs in the universe, and in their own selves, until it becomes manifest to them that this (the Qur'ân) is the truth. Is it not sufficient in regard to your Lord that He is a Witness over all things? (Fusselat: 53.).

--------------------

References:

1- http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080508/news_1c08pyramid.html

2- http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080508/news_1c08pyramid.html

3- http://www.davidovits.info/78/davidovits-pyramid-theory-worldwide

4- http://www.geopolymer.org/news/cutting-edge-analysis-proves-davidovits'-pyramid-theory

5- http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,13509-2480751,00.html

6- http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/01/science/01pyramid.html?ref=science

7- http://www.welt.de/data/2006/11/30/1129891.html

8- http://www.livescience.com/history/070518_bts_barsoum_pyramids.html

9- http://www.piramidasunca.ba/en/index.php/STONE-BLOCKS-FROM-THE-BOSNIAN-PYRAMIDS-ANALIZED-RESULT-ANCIENT-CONCRETE.html

10- http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/12/08/pyramids_arc.html?category=archaeology&guid=20061208120000

11- http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg19225812.900-concrete-evidence-in-gizas-pyramids.html

12- Herodotus, The Histories, Oxford University Press, 1998

13- Davidovits, J. and Morris, M, The Pyramids, Dorset Press, 1988

14- Pyramids were built with concrete rather than rocks, scientists claim, http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article656117.ece, December 1, 2006

15- Concrete evidence in Giza's pyramids, http://www.newscientist.com/channel/being-human/mg19225812.900-concrete-evidence-in-gizas-pyramids.html

16- http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2006/12/08/pyramids_arc.html?category=archaeology&guid=20061208120000

17- http://www.materials.drexel.edu/Pyramids/

18- MIT Class Explores Controversial Pyramid Theory With Scale Model, http://www.azom.com/default.asp, April 3rd,2008.

19- http://www.romanconcrete.com/index.htm

20- http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/12/061209122918.htm

21- The Enigma of the Construction of the Giza Pyramids Solved?, Scientific British Laboratory, Daresbury, SRS Synchrotron Radiation Source, 2004.

22- http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/04/22/a_new_angle_on_pyramids/?page=1

23- http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/are-pyramids-made-out-of-concrete-1

24- http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/pyramids-2-the-evidences

25- Barsoum, M. W., Ganguly, A. and Hug, G. Microstructural Evidence of Reconstituted Limestone Blocks in the Great Pyramids of Egypt, Journal of the American Ceramic Society 89 (12), 2006.

http://kaheel7.com/eng/index.php/unseen-miracles/442-new-facts-about-the-pyramids-a-new-miracle-of-the-quran

Thank you




== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 8:56 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann


On Sun, 2 Feb 2014 12:50:25 -0800 (PST), BV BV <bv8bv8bv8@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Last scientific discovery stated the following: French and U.S.
>researchers assert that the huge stones used by the Pharaohs to build
>the pyramids are just clay that has been heated at high temperatures...

I'm bored...

You didn't read Joseph Davidovits' books very carefully or at all
because most of your dates are wrong. There were no high temperatures
involved. Making limestone blocks from re-agglomerated ingredients
does not require heat. Making white lime (CaO) from limestone (CaCO3)
used in the casing does require heat. There was hardly any wood in
ancient Egypt and certainly not enough to make enough white lime for
anything the size of a pyramid. Oddly, there aren't any lime kilns
found in the area. The dung and straw mix used for fuel could barely
get up to 500C, much less the 900C required to make proper Calcium
Oxide.

Just read his books (and lose the irrelevant Islamic drivel):
<http://www.alibris.com/The-Pyramids-An-Enigma-Solved-Joseph-Davidovits/book/5481336>
<http://www.alibris.com/Why-the-Pharaohs-Built-the-Pyramids-with-Fake-Stones-Joseph-Davidovits/book/11252399>
<http://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/book-why-the-pharaohs-built-the-pyramids-with-fake-stones>

Incidentally, your link at the bottom of your miraculous pile of
inaccuracies is broken. It should be:
<http://www.geopolymer.org/news/cutting-edge-analysis-proves-davidovits%E2%80%99-pyramid-theory>

>They made wooden rails that went round the pyramid in a spiral
>way like the grapes tabernacle which grows around itself and
>ascends to the top.

Again, there was not enough wood in Egypt to do that. If you
calculate the slope necessary to transport the 2000+ lb blocks or the
materials necessary to make the blocks along a spiral, you run into
problems. The slope necessary to be able to use rollers would make
the serpentine path rather long. It would take all day to just walk
to the top, which is not very efficient. Geopolymer material also
takes a fairly long time before it can carry a load. Even modern
concrete takes about a week before it's safe to apply a load. I don't
want to think about how they turned the corners.
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramid_construction_techniques#Different_kinds_of_ramps>

May Allah grant you peace, enlightenment, and an education in basic
chemistry, building materials, and ancient construction techniques.

--
Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lionel train question
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/96607f75fdffab21?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 9:35 pm
From: captainvideo462009@gmail.com


I realize that this is probably not the correct forum to ask this question, however with so many talented people out there who subscribe to this group I was hoping that someone would either know the answer to this or perhaps be able to direct me to a more appropriate group.

Some time ago I picked up a box of old mid 1950's Lionel trains, track, two small adjustable train transformers and some accessories. I just got finished going through the equipment, and with the addition of some new parts and labor have restored everything to good working order once again. The engine is a 2055 and it is married to a coal tender that has a whistle inside of it. The train motor operates on 0 - 16 VAC, but the whistle in the tender, (which is a small fan motor which blows air through some portals), I am told operates on DC. This DC voltage is somehow superimposed on the AC. The correct transformers for this set have levers that you would move to apply the DC to the track, operate the tender motor and blow the whistle, and would be either the KW or the ZW, neither of which came with the equipment in the box. After completing repairs, I confirmed that the tender whistle was working by taking the tender to a train show and trying it out on a test track.

Since the small transformers included with this set get hot and are too small I've been using my bench variac through an isolation transformer to test the train. I tried to see if I could blow the whistle by connecting my DC power supply to the track, but the current peaked at over 6 amps and took out the power supply fuse twice. The variac didn't like it either and started to growl. I figure the train motor as well as the transformer secondary must be loading the DC supply heavily, and perhaps vice versa. I'm not really sure whats happening here.

I subsequently found a larger transformer at another yard sale which is able to handle the current required to run the AC motor in he engine, but there is no whistle provision. I've set the train up in the play room temporarily with the larger transformer but it would really be nice if my 4 year old grandson could hear the whistle blow. Is it possible when the whistle is blown that the DC is being placed in series with the AC? Sounds crazy but I never tried that. This couldn't be very complicated. What am I missing here? Thanks, Lenny




== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Feb 2 2014 11:01 pm
From: John Robertson


On 02/02/2014 9:35 PM, captainvideo462009@gmail.com wrote:
> I realize that this is probably not the correct forum to ask this question, however with so many talented people out there who subscribe to this group I was hoping that someone would either know the answer to this or perhaps be able to direct me to a more appropriate group.
>
> Some time ago I picked up a box of old mid 1950's Lionel trains, track, two small adjustable train transformers and some accessories. I just got finished going through the equipment, and with the addition of some new parts and labor have restored everything to good working order once again. The engine is a 2055 and it is married to a coal tender that has a whistle inside of it. The train motor operates on 0 - 16 VAC, but the whistle in the tender, (which is a small fan motor which blows air through some portals), I am told operates on DC. This DC voltage is somehow superimposed on the AC. The correct transformers for this set have levers that you would move to apply the DC to the track, operate the tender motor and blow the whistle, and would be either the KW or the ZW, neither of which came with the equipment in the box. After completing repairs, I confirmed that the tender whistle was working by taking the tender to a train show and trying it out on a test track.
>
> Since the small transformers included with this set get hot and are too small I've been using my bench variac through an isolation transformer to test the train. I tried to see if I could blow the whistle by connecting my DC power supply to the track, but the current peaked at over 6 amps and took out the power supply fuse twice. The variac didn't like it either and started to growl. I figure the train motor as well as the transformer secondary must be loading the DC supply heavily, and perhaps vice versa. I'm not really sure whats happening here.
>
> I subsequently found a larger transformer at another yard sale which is able to handle the current required to run the AC motor in he engine, but there is no whistle provision. I've set the train up in the play room temporarily with the larger transformer but it would really be nice if my 4 year old grandson could hear the whistle blow. Is it possible when the whistle is blown that the DC is being placed in series with the AC? Sounds crazy but I never tried that. This couldn't be very complicated. What am I missing here? Thanks, Lenny
>

Have you line isolated your variac? If not then you had a serious ground
loop flowing from the power mains to the power supply ground and that
was your original problem.

As I understand it, the DC was in parallel to the AC, but a separate
supply. No filter capacitors - Raw DC only straight from the bridge
rectifiers should work fine. A very simple circuit suitable for the
1930s when this was first implimented as I understand. It might even
been as simple as putting the bridge across the AC output momentarily
causing the horn to blow, and the train to slow down. A Double Pole
Double Throw switch would do that.

There is (was) a train shop in Toronto called Georges Trains on Mount
Pleasant (was there five or so years ago, haven't done a search) and
they were big on Lionel stuff and can easily answer the question if you
can't find anyone else.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."




== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 3 2014 7:14 am
From: captainvideo462009@gmail.com


Thanks for your reply John. Yes the variac was isolated by means of an isolation transformer ahead of it. I essentially did what you mentioned. That is, I assumed that the DC output was placed in parallel with the AC train voltage, and did that from my DC bench supply. That's when I noticed the huge current draw on the DC supply. I was questioning if that was normal. Lenny.




== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 3 2014 7:46 am
From: John Robertson


On 02/03/2014 7:14 AM, captainvideo462009@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks for your reply John. Yes the variac was isolated by means of an isolation transformer ahead of it. I essentially did what you mentioned. That is, I assumed that the DC output was placed in parallel with the AC train voltage, and did that from my DC bench supply. That's when I noticed the huge current draw on the DC supply. I was questioning if that was normal. Lenny.
>

In that case then the DC supply was essentially shorted out by the
secondary winding of the Variac.

I am pretty sure the only way this could work is as I described where
the AC/DC is switched back and forth with a DPDT switch - both voltages
can't be present at the same time.

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Harmon Kardon MS-150 ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/94492aa4601f463c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Feb 3 2014 1:27 am
From: "Arfa Daily"




"josephkk" <joseph_barrett@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:0rcre9htksaeu0tv9rqlcb7larh67kim26@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 29 Jan 2014 02:25:36 -0000, "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:lc62c1$klp$1@dont-email.me...
>>> "Arfa Daily" wrote in message news:xuuFu.120$ac4.97@fx05.am4...
>>>
>>>> No, I haven't. There's a limit to the amount of time that I'm prepared
>>>> to
>>>> spend on this consumer junk, governed entirely by the law of
>>>> diminishing
>>>> returns. To be honest, if getting inside it involves removing glued-on
>>>> trims, then I am not interested beyond the point that I have now
>>>> reached.
>>>
>>> To put it a bit more bluntly... Is it not reasonable to assume that a
>>> product that's glued together is not intended to be repaired?
>>>
>>
>>If something is genuinely glued together, then it gets little more than a
>>cursory look if it crosses my bench. However, this one was slightly
>>different from that in that it had lots of obvious screws holding the case
>>halves together, and when these were removed, it was 'almost' coming apart
>>in the way that you would expect, but something else, right in the middle,
>>was still preventing it from coming all the way. I'm sure that a bit of
>>brute force and ignorance would have seen it apart, but it's a fancy
>>expensive-looking (and probably /actually/ expensive) item, and I was
>>concerned that something visible might 'give', leaving nasty damage ...
>>
>>Arfa
>
> Sounds like a screw hidden under a label or sticker.
>
> ?-)
>

Well, that was my thought too, but my eyes, a strong light, a strong
magnifying glass, a bloody great screwdriver to lever the case apart as far
as it would come, and 40+ years of experience persuading this sort of shit
to come apart, failed to find any such .... :-(

Arfa





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