sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Google Groups

DaveC <not@home.cow>: Nov 15 11:46AM -0800 > > Are you saying that the PVC won't hold up to dino oils?   > I don't know what "dino" oils are,   from crude oil source, as opposed to synthetics   > Looks like there is more than one type of PVC. Why this particular > cable company? I wouldn't think the music industry has much in common > with machine tools.   The cable is available by-the-foot (I need 12 ft total). The local distributor emailed the Japanese manufacturer who confirmed that they tested this PVC cable with gasoline which flushed out the particular plasticizers and hardened the remaining PVC. So no-go. > where they specify it for industrial use around oils?   > http://www.igus.com/wpck/15050/overview_motorcables?C=US&L=en   > http://www.lappusa.com/10150description.htm   Specs look good, but minimum order is roll of 100 ft. I might be able to sell remainder on e-Flea but then again, maybe not. Might get mfgr. to sample. We'll see…   igus.com have a really nice parameter search page:   http://www.igus.com/wpck/7101/CF_Productfinder_US   This one looks good:   http://www.igus.com/iPro/iPro_01_0013_0008_USen.htm?ArtNr=CF10.01.18&c=US&l=en     > If this cable will be continually bent and moved, don't you need a > special type of cable for that? I would contact one of the cable > manufacturers and find out what they recommend.   It will be used occasionally--it's a convenience (occasional-use) hand control box.   Have requested samples from those that look good.   Thanks.

DaveC <not@home.cow>: Nov 15 11:47AM -0800 > silicone > Jamie   Suppliers of such cables?

rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Nov 15 04:39PM -0500 On 11/15/2015 2:47 PM, DaveC wrote: >> silicone >> Jamie   > Suppliers of such cables?   I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but this is a question that a simple google search should give good results for. Have you tried googling for silicone and the other parameters you require?   --   Rick

M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: Nov 15 06:21PM -0500 In article <0001HW.1BF918E600085C8611EE013CF@news.eternal- september.org>, not@home.cow says...   > > silicone > > Jamie   > Suppliers of such cables?   Really?   http://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=ce-silicone-insulated-hook- up-wire   So some leg work..   If you want a large quanity I can hook you up but be prepaired to pay the piper.   jamie

M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: Nov 15 06:24PM -0500 In article <0001HW.1BF918E600085C8611EE013CF@news.eternal- september.org>, not@home.cow says...   > > silicone > > Jamie   > Suppliers of such cables?   Oh that's right, you did say cable   http://www.awcwire.com/productspec.aspx?id=ul-4535-silicone-cable   jamie

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>: Nov 16 08:58AM -0500 >I can't find any rubber-insulated cables (a la SJ or SO cables). How >resistant will PVC-jacket be to oil?   >Thanks.   Try Alpha Wire 'Xtra-Guard' 'High-Flex'. They will pre-cut. UL AWM Styles 2587, 2661, 20234. All oil-resistant PVC.   RL

Julian Barnes <jb9889@notformail.com>: Nov 15 05:12PM On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 08:20:09 -0800, jurb6006 wrote:   [...]   Oh boy. Are you going to stir up a hornet's nest with that post! ;->

M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: Nov 15 12:43PM -0500 In article <n2a55v$5lf$2@dont-email.me>, curd@notformail.com says... > correct measurement, n'est pas? What would that conversion factor be? > Greater or less than unity for a start? > Your thoughts invited.   Don't get confused, RMS and AVG is not the same   While RMS is working in the 0.707 of the peak, AVG is in the 0.637 or there abouts.   Since Watts = 1 J(joule)/ Second we have this to look at;   Inject a 1 Hz tone into an amp from a clean sinewave source with 1 Volt Peak coming out going to a 1 ohm load. How do you measure Watts if Watts involves a J value over a 1 second period?   We know that the SINE wave isn't always at full level of 1 volt during that time period so that would indicate that we don't have 1 WATT of energy there, so what do you do ?   In retrospect that, you need to use voltage in your calculations to form a WATT value at some point. Wouldn't be logical to use RMS or AVG as the figure, one being a little different than the other?   Others will argue the fact that RMS power does not exist, I think they may have fallen off the cliff, turret, edge, mountain what ever it is they like to hang out on.   When I was schooled in electronics(Long time ago), starting at lower levels, through highschool, Post grade in a trade shop, college and adult lectures, there were never any discussion of RMS/AVG power ever not existing, because of the roots of how it is derived.   I just flip my eye brown when I hear otherwise and move on.   There are some twisted use of Peak, Peak To Peak power for sales only and they can get away with it. Only because in retrospect, it is valid, just the end user is getting fooled by the lack of reallity.   To add to this, doing power calculations in AC does bring in the phase angle but we get back to the power level of WATTS/second which then puts a fork into it, if you really think about it. So summing all the points of a sinewave when doing AC power, still comes out back to what we were talking about above.   P = I cos(V);do that for all 360 points or even closer if you wish and see where that leads to.   Just my opinion, really! :)     Jamie

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Nov 15 11:13AM -0800 On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 12:43:26 -0500, M Philbrook   > Just my opinion, really! :) >Jamie   Perhaps this might change your opinion: <http://www.eznec.com/Amateur/RMS_Power.pdf>     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Nov 15 03:18PM -0500 <jurb6006@gmail.com> wrote in message news:cef93438-dab4-4001-8920-5ec236837d89@googlegroups.com... >Well, we drive on parkways and park on driveways. the macula in your eye >used to be called the fovea. Double density floppy disks had half the >capacity or the high density disks.   Chalk it up to that.   Other than that "RMS power", no matter how nonexistant, is;   V * 0.707 ^ 2 / R   Might piss you off, but hey, what does a five pound can of coffee weigh these days ? And they say you can use less, bullshit. Do that and you'll be drinking dishwater. You are not supposed to see through coffee. And lowfat milk, no thanks, I got water. Go ahead "Oh they don't just add water", damn right, they are selling what they take out of it. Kinda like salt, they make more money from what they refine out of the salt than the salt itself.   This mythical RMS power is the result of the FTC trying to put a lid on ridiculous power claims back in the 1970s. It only has any real teeth when the power is stated in a certain way. Thye can rate a unit 2,000 watts on a 2 amp fuse, as long as they do not claim it as an actual, legal power rating. Note that the regulations do not apply to commercial or auto equipment, or to other than the front two main channels of a surround amp.   Now there are commercial amps lying their (_|_) off about power. Says 1,000 watts and I get into it and there is a little TO-220-15 package IC with a fan on >it smaller than the one in my PC.     There seems not to be any real standard for audio power.   Someone needs to define a standrd something like input a sine wave into the amp and get so much RMS volts (undistorted or a % distortion) across a resistive load for a period of time like 60 seconds. Do that at several frequencies across the audio range with one being the lowest and another the highest frequency the amp is rated for.   The 5 pound bag of sugar is now 4 pounds and the 2x4 boards seem to be srinking along with the thickness of plywood. A number of years ago I bought some "2x4"s and nails that just would not go all the way through them when the 2" sides were layed on top of each other. A while back I bought some new 2x4s and the same nalis went through by about 1/16 of an inch.   Mother had recipeas that called for a can of something. Now the size of the cans are smaller and difficult to convert so a cake comes out the same.

etpm@whidbey.com: Nov 15 02:29PM -0800 >Same with cars. Do you really think they are 5,000 watts ? At 100 % efficiency it would have to pull over 400 amps. Even my 12 : 1 455 luxury racecar engine with a sloppy timing chain didn't pull that to start hot. For a car battery, 400 amps is a "cold cranking amps" rating. And alternators ? Change one lately ? They cannot handle anywhere near the current they used to, it is right on the box "DO NOT ATTEMPT TO CHARGE A DEAD BATTERY AS PERMANENT DAMAGE WILL OCCUR, CHARGE BATTERY BEFORE USING ALTERNATOR. What ? Know what that means ? That means if you leave your light on and need a jumpstart, it might wreck your "new and improved" alternator. And that suits "them" just fine. (I think I prefer the old and shitty ones that worked reliably)   >Now some of these guys DO have a second battery and alternator just for the amps, but still. Does anyone even know the gauge of wire needed to conduct 400 amps ? They got fat wires in them cars but not that fat.   >So there is a formula for it though it does not exist. Well, neither does the square root of -1. You are all wrong about those amps for cars. All you need to pull 400 amps from 60 watt 14 volt alternator is 4 gauge oxygen free gold plated Litz wire. Don't be fooled by claims that other than Litz wire can be used. And the gold must be 26 carat, that 24 carat stuff just won't pass the current without high losses. Airick

M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: Nov 15 06:49PM -0500 In article <_-OdnWKC25EnetXLnZ2dnUU7-aOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>, rmowery28146@earthlink.net says... > some new 2x4s and the same nalis went through by about 1/16 of an inch.   > Mother had recipeas that called for a can of something. Now the size of the > cans are smaller and difficult to convert so a cake comes out the same.   The reality of all this is, a clean sinewave at 1 Hz over a 1 second period to get WATTS is the average of the sinewave.   If you sum all values from the base line to the peak of a sinewave then divide by the number of samples you used, you'll get 63% or 0.634 which is really not too far from using RMS which is 0.707.   Although Technically, RMS is really not a proper measure in this case because it is not truely accurate for use of power but the average is. Like I said, if some one is using the RMS term for power over the average it really isn't that much more, even though its a little higher than it should be.   In Ac power measurements, you specify the phase angle, however, that is only a fraction and must be considered when calculating Watts. You need to consider the whole frame time which is why using the average is the apperent answer.   I prefer to blow it off and just accept the fact that I know the difference and that isn't enough to start a war over.   So when some one says RMS power, * that by 0.9   now to really thow you off, the RMS of a squarewave is the same as the Peak and also the average is the same.   And if you have triangles, the RMS = Pk*0.577 and AVG := 0.5 * PK.   You can see it's obvious there with the AVG how that works out.     Go figure :)

Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Nov 16 12:44AM On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 12:43:26 -0500, M Philbrook wrote:   > Others will argue the fact that RMS power does not exist, I think they > may have fallen off the cliff, turret, edge, mountain what ever it is > they like to hang out on.   "RMS power" is a misnomer and doesn't represent anything useful (unlike RMS volts and RMS amps). It sounds to me like it's YOU who's fallen off the cliff of reality on this one. ;->

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Nov 15 07:27PM -0800 Cursitor Doom wrote: > info. The trouble is, customers are familiar with "RMS power" - but > there's no such thing! Irms X Vrms = AVERAGE power and that is all that > matters. BUT - try telling that to a typical customer!   ** The term "watts RMS" has been used in relation to audio amplifier specs for many decades, since the 1960s at least.   It is a shortened expression which indicates the long accepted method of audio power measurement using a continuous sine wave into a resistive load. The figure quoted is AVERAGE watts.   Other tests exist using either the peak value of the sine wave or short bursts of sine wave, generally know as "peak power" or "music power" - the figures quotes are not average watts, but represent the maximum power available on a short term basis for music and speech.   In nearly all cases,"RMS power" and "Watts RMS" have the same meaning.   Those who say otherwise must think that "Steak Sauce" contains actual steak.     ... Phil

M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: Nov 15 10:34PM -0500 In article <n2b8tj$jqp$1@dont-email.me>, curd@notformail.com says... > RMS volts and RMS amps). > It sounds to me like it's YOU who's fallen off the cliff of reality on > this one. ;->   What a puts...   You don't get out much do you?     Jamie

gregz <zekor@comcast.net>: Nov 16 03:43AM > correct measurement, n'est pas? What would that conversion factor be? > Greater or less than unity for a start? > Your thoughts invited.   There is a very good output measurement called voltage. Power is just a byproduct. Power more related to linear cost of product. Forget power.   Greg

stratus46@yahoo.com: Nov 16 01:01AM -0800 On Sunday, November 15, 2015 at 6:37:00 AM UTC-8, Cursitor Doom wrote: > correct measurement, n'est pas? What would that conversion factor be? > Greater or less than unity for a start? > Your thoughts invited.   You are correct on 'average' power but SO WHAT? Measure the average power and tell him it's RMS power. The method you're using is what all the reviewers use so where is the problem? You're being a 'purist' and it will get you NOTHING. Don't shoot yourself in the foot and then complain about the pain.   FWIW I have a little Technics receiver that the manual says is 40 Watts / channel. When I ran it up it sure SOUNDED like more than 40 Watts. When I measured the power supply Voltage of +/- 42 I had my answer. It IS more than 40 Watts under 'music' conditions. Am I upset because the 'lied' about the power? Nope, I'm just fine with it.   G²

jurb6006@gmail.com: Nov 16 02:01AM -0800 >can be used. And the gold must be 26 carat, that 24 carat stuff just >won't pass the current without high losses. >Airick "   So you are well versed in new math. How's them boffo low unemployment numbers and non-existent inflation !   Late 1970s and thereabout I used to build car amps. The design was like the mindblower amps but without the problems. The original amps would fry an output which would catch on fire and burn the cone of the speaker. I didn't care, all I wanted was the driver transformer. I found output chokes in old tube amps. Anything that had 4, 8 AND 16 ohm taps was fair game for me. I bet I scrapped some valuable amps, I mean maybe could retire on today.   Basically push pull with the center tapped output choke, one output would pull to the 12 volt rail and the action of the choke sent the other side to negative 12 volts or as close as possible depending on the efficiency of the transformer.   Theoretically that is 24 volts peak which by the math gets you about 30 REAL watts per channel. Not really efficient either, the ten amp fuses would blow from fatigue maybe once a month.   But it blew people's speakers. They say "How is that possible, these things are rated 90 watts each" to which I replied "Well these are OMWs, Old Marantz Watts". I went on to tell then that these amps 30 WPC is like the 30 WPC in your house stereo. And that was alot for a car. Remember, most people were listening to 2½ WPC, or if they were lucky, 9 WPC.   The BTL outputs had about 8.99 WPC, the single ended choke output DElcos did anywhere from 5 WPC to maybe 7 or so depending on how they're biased. The ones with the big ass DS-501 (IIRC) transistors came closer to the 9 WPC but really, the THD got pretty high being single ended.   Hmm, I bet the people who like tube sound and will discard a nice ass Sansui solid state amp for a single ended 6BQ5 based amp would really like the sound of those old Delcos.   Later, Delco got their shit together and threw together some really nice radios. Excellent everything, the DM-165 and high output chips with dynamic power limiting, and then IIRC the DM-185 had the power limiting independent for each of the FOUR channels. Made it sound a hell of alot better. And the tuners were unparalleled, seriously. If I want s tuner for in my house I want one of them. Pick up a stick in the mud from China, in fucking stereo ! And the cassette decks were good as well, with one variety in the higher end cars built by Blaupunkt. (type "D" they called it) Also, the ones with the EQ built in had the low and high controls still as normal bass and treble, which is how I think it should be and have modified EQs to be like that.   Now that I think of it, there are a few EQs out there I modified that should have the frequencies relabeled. Anyone ogt a Dymo label maker ? LOL

jurb6006@gmail.com: Nov 16 02:19AM -0800 >"FWIW I have a little Technics receiver that the manual says is 40 >Watts / channel. When I ran it up it sure SOUNDED like more than 40 >Watts. When I measured the power supply Voltage of +/- 42 I had my >answer."   Yup, 42 volt rails will give you a hair over 100 WPC, as long as they maintain 42 volts. But you do have it for a matter of milliseconds. that is called dynamic headroom. Some manufacturers gave that rating and it was based aon a short term bust of a sine wave, specified in milliseconds. However there is another factor about these "Old Marantz Watts" or OMWs as I like to call them sometimes.   The older amp topologies and the devices available limited them somewhat because of non-linearities. These happened worst when you got near clipping. Bottom line, your 40 WPC Tecnics or whater really IS about 75 WPC, but at like 2 or 3 % THD.   Later, they made really good square waves. By that I mean they got the linearity closer to the rails and that is why the older stuff sounds better. A 40 WPC amp now might only really be 50 WPC, because they could keep it linear though more of its high power range. That's why if I still had my old Marantz I could sell it for a grand, which I do believe is more than it cost new. (but not by all that much)   But yes, when you get older amps and receivers, don't be surprised if they even have double the power claimed. That would be 3 dB, that is all. The ones, maybe I can find some, that gave dynamic and clipping headroom specs could showya. If it has 1.8 dB clipping headroom and then on top of that 2 dB dynamic headroom, that amp is going to sound louder than its RMS power rating would allude to.   Only thing you can do is crank it up and enjoy, and hope your speakers can handle it. You really can't sue them for putting too much power in the amp.

zwgearbox@gmail.com: Nov 16 01:50AM -0800 ZhaoWei Machinery & Electronics, Your Trustworthy Supplier! Founded in 1997, Shenzhen ZhaoWei Machinery & Electronics Company, with a history of 20 years from R & D to production, owns more than 200 high precision processing equipment including Sumitomo injection molding machines, Swiss Agie wire cutting machines, Agie electric spark machines, Makino, FANUC, RODERS etc. and 40 automatic assembly lines. After 20 years of technical precipitation, Created the first brand of intelligent driving industry. Zhao Wei develops and manufactures a series of planetary gearbox including 6mm planetary gear box, 10mm planetary gear box, 12mm planetary gear box, 16mm planetary gear box, 20mm planetary gear box, 22mm powder metallurgical planet gear box, 24mm planetary gear box, 28mm planetary gear box, car headlights adjusting gear box and auto throttle controller gear box,etc. The gear is a mechanical device that transmits motion and power in the planetary gear box. It has a long history. It has many advantages, such as high speed ratio range, high transmission power, high reliability, long life and so on. Planetary gear box is widely used in mechanical transmission of important parts, after years of hard work and continuous exploration, ZhaoWei planetary gear box have been widely used in auto parts, intelligent kitchen, household appliances, medical equipment, communications equipment, industrial equipment, instrument and meter, model aircraft, robot, a human care, security camera, digital electronics and other industries. With 20 years professional design, development and production, provide you with one-stop service from design simulation to the production. ZhaoWei Machinery & Electronics, you are worthy of trust!   Company: Shenzhen ZHAOWEI Machinery & Electronics Co., Ltd URL: http://www.zwgearbox.com/ Contact: Anny Liu Tel：+86-755-27322652 Fax：+86-755-27323949 E-mail:sales@zwgearbox.com Add: Blk. 18, Longwangmiao Industry Park, Fuyong Tn., Bao'an Dist., Shenzhen 518103, Guangdong, China

gregz <zekor@comcast.net>: Nov 16 03:53AM > fails. I did have one burn the transformer out, after it got rained on. > I learned that the hard way! I always cover them now if they are in use > outdoors.   I had best luck with simple chargers. Most fail needing repair of clamp connection. I have a 4 amp one that's 30 years old, old trusty. I'll be looking for another.   Greg

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Nov 15 07:32PM -0800 John Robertson wrote:     > I'm with Jamie here. Have you powered up the amp with ONLY the speakers > hooked up? No other cables going to the inputs.     ** Roland Cubes are combo amps with the speaker internally wired.   > If the hum level is steady, then the problem could be a blown fuse on > one of the power amp rails (B+ or B-).   ** None that I have seen use DC rail fuses, they normally have fuses in the two AC lines coming from the transformer. If one of them fails, the amp continues to work. When both fail, it goes silent.       ... Phil

Jeroni Paul <JERONI.PAUL@terra.es>: Nov 15 12:26PM -0800 Mark Zacharias wrote: > traverse unit, if they are repaired at all.   > Most players are so cheap anymore, they simply aren't worth it.   > Mark Z.     Thanks for all the replies. I belive the problem is in the electronics and maybe inside the big IC. - There is no apparent mechanical problem with the disk clamp. - I have played with the disk height with no improvement.   There are details that do not fit with an aged laser. That was my first tought too, but I think the laser is fine. First it is able to read really weak disks, I have one I recorded in a defective burner that few players can read - and this one can. Second the unit behaves better at the outer tracks as opposed to what a weak laser would do. And third, the tracking actuator clicking to an end is not the expected behaviour, that seems to me an electronic fault.

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Nov 15 09:26AM -0800 On Sun, 15 Nov 2015 01:40:36 -0800 (PST), Phreedom Karess   >best way to 'repair' these cheap little things is to go to the dollar store and get another one.   I bought a bunch of those last year and gave them away with Christmas presents to various friends. Then, I took one apart and noticed how they were thrown together and how the sense wires on the USB connector were shorted together making it a "universal charger". When I put a 1A load on it, and looked at the noisy output, I declared them to be junk. I had to drive around to the recipients and confiscate my gifts before the chargers blew up a phone or whatever.   I think you'll find these to be suitable replacements and yes, they do cost more money: <http://www.amazon.com/PowerGen-charger-Designed-Android-Devices/dp/B0088U6OZY> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger.jpg> <http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/Powergen%20USB%20car%20charger/Powergen%20insde.jpg> Incidentally, the "A" means "Apple", and the "NA" means "Not Apple".     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this group. You can change your settings on the group membership page. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an email to sci.electronics.repair+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.