- Calculator button not working - 8 Updates
- Hysteresis on the Honeywell old-style bulb thermostat - 16 Updates
- Huge archive of manuals - 1 Update
| John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com>: Dec 27 09:04AM -0800 On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 11:07:23 AM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote: > upgrade to something new if it can be fixed reasonably easily. > Any ideas what the problem might be? > thanks. Try cleaning the rubber bubble carbon and PC board with alcohol and cue tip. Works for remote controls most of the time. Failing this buy the remote control rebuild kits , around 20 bucks , that will resurface the carbon on the rubber bubble. Good luck with it and I suspect you will be okay with the easy fix of alcohol and a cue tip. |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Dec 27 05:33PM On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 09:04:26 -0800, John Heath wrote: > remote control rebuild kits , around 20 bucks , that will resurface the > carbon on the rubber bubble. Good luck with it and I suspect you will be > okay with the easy fix of alcohol and a cue tip. Thanks, John. I'm really loathed to throw this old friend out. Babies as yet unborn when this was shipped to me have grown into men and gone out and died fighting for the Queen in Afghanistan before this calculator ever started to fail - and it's had some hard use, I can tell you. Makes you think, doesn't it? :-/ |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Dec 27 12:39PM -0600 On 12/27/2015 11:33 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote: > and died fighting for the Queen in Afghanistan before this calculator > ever started to fail - and it's had some hard use, I can tell you. > Makes you think, doesn't it? :-/ I bet you feel that everyone around you is getting old. I sure feel that way. Mikek |
| MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Dec 27 06:45PM In article <n5pb4f$n3k$1@dont-email.me>, nojunk@knology.net says... > I bet you feel that everyone around you is getting old. > I sure feel that way. > Mikek For myself, I knew it was not just me... Mike. |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Dec 27 08:33PM On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 12:39:35 -0600, amdx wrote: > I bet you feel that everyone around you is getting old. Those that haven't *already* died from old age, yes! |
| John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com>: Dec 27 01:00PM -0800 On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 3:36:09 PM UTC-5, Cursitor Doom wrote: > On Sun, 27 Dec 2015 12:39:35 -0600, amdx wrote: > > I bet you feel that everyone around you is getting old. > Those that haven't *already* died from old age, yes! We are not getting older. Its everyone one else that is getting younger. Just turn on the TV and you will see what I mean :<). |
| N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Dec 27 09:31PM On 27/12/2015 16:04, Cursitor Doom wrote: > upgrade to something new if it can be fixed reasonably easily. > Any ideas what the problem might be? > thanks. If its like my trusty solar powered fx451 from 1980s, used 20 times today. To get inside you pull the rear surround away from the case body proper, by pushing your fingers through mock leather covering on the long edge farthest fromthe hinge section. That edging traps the mock leather in the gap between the 2 case parts |
| John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com>: Dec 27 01:57PM -0800 On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 4:31:28 PM UTC-5, N_Cook wrote: > pushing your fingers through mock leather covering on the long edge > farthest fromthe hinge section. That edging traps the mock leather in > the gap between the 2 case parts This reminds me. Take a cell phone picture of the front of the calculator first before disassembling. All the buttons will fall out making it a challenge to put them all back where they belong without a picture for a guild. Been there done that and I paid the price for not taking a picture before hand. |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Dec 27 08:50AM -0800 There is a lot of information both accurate and not-so-much in the replies, so, in summary: a) correct that the mercury bulb is designed as slow on/less slow off. This allows for the over/undershoot. b) the anticipator matches the nichrome resistor load to the power available from the gas valve. Keep in mind that back in the day, many hydronic systems ran on gravity, no circulator, no mains power. So, power was supplied by a 'millivolt pile' heated by the standing pilot. The anticipator in this case would be at the lowest setting. As gravity systems were slow start-high overshoot systems, the stat would want to respond directly to ambient temps as overshoot was built in. c) systems with circulators were more capable of holding a steady temp, ran the gas valve at higher voltages, and used limit switches to manage system response. The trick noted of using the MA setting on a VOM is the way to go here. Now, if one lives as we do in a 4,200 s.f. 3 story center hall colonial built in 1890 with an hydronic heating system installed in 1928, such a stat would not be suitable unless several were used in a zoned set-up. Our system uses a gas-fired, modulating, condensing boiler with sensor for supply and return water temps, external air temp, and response time (a function of the change in return water temp over time). We use a smart-stat that also learns, so that it will reach temps 'as timed', rather than starting to heat at a set time. That, too, has a outside temp function. This can get very efficient such that even this big house is quite reasonable to heat. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| Mark Lloyd <not@mail.invalid>: Dec 27 12:28PM -0600 On 12/26/2015 02:37 PM, Kirk Landaur wrote: [snip] > hysteresis is built in? Is it in the computer? Is there a dial > that sets the temperature range of the hysteresis? Is there > a potentiometer? The mercury switch provides some hysteresis. -- Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "In fact, when you get right down to it, almost every explanation Man came up with for *anything* until about 1926 was stupid." [Dave Barry] |
| "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net>: Dec 27 12:53PM -0600 Tony Hwang wrote: > I think you are thinking backward. Spring controls the position of > bulb depending on temperature. Not the other way around. >> Kirk Landaur wrote Yep, I understand that the "Spring controls the position of bulb depending on temperature". That was, I thought, my intention to describe. When the spring bends far enough to tip the bulb, the weight of the mercury in the bulb swings the bulb a bit farther , requiring the temperature to cause a greater swing in the other direction to make it switch back. That's where the hysteresis comes from. That was the question from the OP, which is what I was trying to answer. cheers, Dave M |
| "Tom Miller" <tmiller11147@verizon.net>: Dec 27 01:59PM -0500 "Mark Lloyd" <not@mail.invalid> wrote in message news:X4Wfy.37615$kN.17621@fx11.iad... >> How do we *change* or *set* how much hysteresis there is? >> Specifically, how do I get *more* hysteresis in my furnace? > -- That's the main reason it is so important to level the t-stat. |
| thekmanrocks@gmail.com: Dec 27 10:55AM -0800 ssinzig wrote: "arrow, makes whatever you are adjusting 'LONGER'. No ambiguity there at all, except for what that 'LONGER' adjustment is specifically doing (I " Should be pretty obvious what is happening for a "longer" period of time: the boiler or furace is running longer! Moving that slider toward Shorter results in shorter, more frequent run times of the boiler or furnace. Assuming setpoint = 68.0F Longer means swing from 66 to 70, but house gets hot and cold. Shorter means swing from 67.8 to 68.2, but heat cycles on and off constantly. Just right(anticipator setting measured with meter) and you should stay between 67.5 - 68.5F. Same concept with digital "Firing length" 3-4 position menu setting. |
| "Dave M" <dgminala@mediacombb.net>: Dec 27 01:09PM -0600 Dave M wrote: > to answer. > cheers, > Dave M I forgot to add that, in more direct response to the OP's question, that the hysteresis (temperature difference required to switch the HVAC unit from off to on, and back to off) is created by the temperature characteristics of the bimetal spring, the weight of the mercury ball (both unchangeable by the user), and modified by the anticipator resistor. More Cheers, Dave M |
| ssinzig <ssinzig@outlook.com>: Dec 27 02:19PM -0500 > Just right(anticipator setting measured with meter) and you should > stay between 67.5 - 68.5F. > Same concept with digital "Firing length" 3-4 position menu setting. Okay, that seems reasonable. Although I would argue that it is not 'pretty obvious' what is happening for a 'longer' period of time, without already being familiar with its operation or consulting an operating manual. Is the scale (1.2 to .10) measured in seconds, minutes, or hours? Is it a multipler, ie. 0.8 x burn duration? Is it the time the burner stays on? Is it a time delay before the burner comes on? Is it a time delay before the burner turns off? Everything is always 'pretty obvious' when you are already familiar with how it works. S. |
| jurb6006@gmail.com: Dec 27 11:43AM -0800 >"Now, if one lives as we do in a 4,200 s.f. 3 story center hall >colonial built in 1890 with an hydronic heating system i" That changes things. In a hot water system there is little to no overhead in starting and stopping the system. Also the water has thermal mass so it evens it all out. For most places, hydronic heating is much superior to forced air. The only problem is it does not filter the air, and AC cannot be easily added. If you ever want AC don't let anyone talk you out of that system, make them put in a separate air box for it. Then you will have not only balanced heat, but balanced AC, which is extremely difficult to achieve with a combined system in a multi story house. With separate systems you will be much more comfortable. But the bottom line here is that in a hot water system, the anticipator makes little to no difference in performance or efficiency. You don't have to worry about it. |
| John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com>: Dec 27 12:34PM -0800 On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 8:14:07 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote: > > <https://customer.honeywell.com/resources/techlit/TechLitDocuments/60-0000s/60-0830.pdf> > Men never read instructions. Nor ask travel > directions. It's part of the male code. Here here , I second that. IKEA furniture being the only exception. We |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Dec 27 12:34PM -0800 There are always a few (not so few around here) outlyers. Gravity systems have a *huge* overshoot such that the stat must be set properly! Keep in mind that most (very nearly all) of these systems were built without mains power, and, of course no circulators. So it is critical that the stat responds to ambient temps fairly closely. It takes *time* before the differential on the supply side is enough to restart circulation once equalized. So, the under/over is established in part already. In such cases, the stat should respond very nearly to ambient temperatures (and should be on an inside wall not facing a radiator). When we moved into this house, I - with more than a little help - removed a 400,000 BTU steel jacket oil burner and replaced it with a Weil Mclain 230,000 BTU gas fired Ultra that also makes our hot water. The system was originally gravity, with 4" ID risers in a 2-pipe configuration. During the install, I added two circulators on the heat side, one for the hot water - the computer on board the boiler manages the dance for all three. But what it means is that all 38 radiators are at the same temperature unless otherwise managed. This allowed me to install thermostatic valves in strategic locations (17 in total) such that we have lots of flexibility. In 8 winters, we have never had a lick of trouble. But a smart stat is essential to keeping all this in balance. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Dec 27 12:36PM -0800 Yabbut.....IKEA uses *pictures*!! That is an exception! Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| "Tom Miller" <tmiller11147@verizon.net>: Dec 27 03:48PM -0500 <pfjw@aol.com> wrote in message news:ac45991f-249a-4b8d-a508-d10a3d4c653b@googlegroups.com... " In such cases, the stat should respond very nearly to ambient temperatures (and should be on an inside wall not facing a radiator)." Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And don't forget to consider what is inside the wall. Such as hot and cold water pipes, return air ducts, wiring,... |
| jurb6006@gmail.com: Dec 27 12:50PM -0800 >"There are always a few (not so few around here) outlyers. Gravity >systems have a *huge* overshoot such that the stat must be set >properly! " Except if it is a thermopile system. If so, there is no anticipator. |
| Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid>: Dec 27 09:08PM > Is it the time the burner stays on? > Is it a time delay before the burner comes on? > Is it a time delay before the burner turns off? It's the current draw for the solenoid valve. |
| Jerry Peters <jerry@example.invalid>: Dec 27 09:10PM >> starts back up. > That is why blower does not come on with flame on, does not go off with > flame off(this going off delay is usually adjustable at the control board) That depends on the furnace. MY blower comes on as soon as the burner ignites, it's a high efficiency furnace, so the blower must start to cool the secondary heat exchanger. |
| thekmanrocks@gmail.com: Dec 27 01:48PM -0800 ssinzig wrote: "- show quoted text - Okay, that seems reasonable. Although I would argue that it is not 'pretty obvious' what is happening for a 'longer' period of time, without already being familiar with its operation or consulting an operating manual. Is the scale (1.2 to .10) measured in seconds, minutes, or hours?" No time bearing whatsoever. It's VOLTAGE. "Is it a multipler, ie. 0.8 x burn duration? " No. "Is it the time the burner stays on? " Yes!! "Is it a time delay before the burner comes on? " Sort of. You're starting to get it. "Is it a time delay before the burner turns off? " Getting warmer!(pardon the pun). It's function is determined by voltage(the numbers on the anticipator slider are in Volts). A heat anticipator generates 'false heat' - it tricks a traditional bulb-stat into firing the boiler in a more energy efficient manner, by generating a small amount of local heat within the wall unit itself. The correct amount of false heat both prevents the thermostat from calling for heat too soon after it drops below set point(what you the user set it for), and prevents thermostat from running so long that it overshoots that set point by significant amount. At its extremes, a heat anticipator could cause too frequent and short boiler runs, or not so frequent boiler runs between which the house gets too cold, and then gets too hot before the boiler turns off. Set properly, the anticipator will turn the unit off just before reaching the setpoint, so that remaining hot water(or air) in the system can be pushed through the system without a significant overshoot. Succinctly, you want neither a scenario where the boiler turns on and off every three minutes, nor where it turns on for one half hour, and is then off for nearly one half hour. The anticipator, when properly calibrated, prevents both situations, and keeps the temp. within a tolerable range. "Everything is always 'pretty obvious' when you are already familiar with how it works. " S. " That's why we're here to share knowledge. ;) |
| John Heath <heathjohn2@gmail.com>: Dec 27 09:16AM -0800 On Sunday, December 27, 2015 at 7:54:25 AM UTC-5, N_Cook wrote: > collection of paper manuals with that and other similar indexed > resources, ie not unfortunately elektrotanya/eservice , and scan in and > upload somewhere the non-duplicates. Nice find. I bookmarked it. I would add http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/ Its free schematics for older radios. |
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