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| "Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@sbcglobal.net>: Mar 26 06:22AM -0500 "Trevor Wilson" <trevor@SPAMBLOCKrageaudio.com.au> wrote in message news:dlmorsFg49tU2@mid.individual.net... > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus If I recall correctly that procedure used a variac and the test stopped an a certain current (I think it was 4 amps) through the amp meter which was the only "load". A modern amp would pass that test as well, but the microprocessor-based turn-on and protection circuits would have to be bypassed. Mark Z. |
| "Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@sbcglobal.net>: Mar 26 06:11AM -0500 "Jeff Liebermann" <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in message news:m4sbfbtj3k3b1hcjnca9t86o566tel84o4@4ax.com... > 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com > Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com > Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 You, sir - are an evil Genius! mz |
| Tim Schwartz <tim@bristolnj.com>: Mar 26 08:52AM -0400 On 3/25/2016 11:52 PM, John Heath wrote: >> Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com >> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 > I have heard this argument too many times as if the costumer is responsible for electrical engineering issues. The customer paid for the amplifier leading a profit for the manufacturer. It is the manufacturer that is responsible to made sure the amplifier is idiot proof. Amplifiers have current limiting circuits which means you can sort the outputs all day long without any damage. If the manufacturer can not be bothered to be responsible for their own engineering leading to output transistor failure than they are in the wrong business. There is no such thing as a costumer that is wrong as he is the one that is paying the money. The failure is always up stream from the costumer. I will now get of my soap box. I'll have side with the manufacturer here. It is not possible to make any product 'idiot proof' as someone will come up with a bigger idiot. By these this standard, car manufacturers should build a car that won't sustain any damage because the driver is reading the newspaper, texting or talking on a phone rather than driving. Or from a mechanical side, not add oil when the light comes on. Not possible, at least not yet. The end user must also take reasonable care. Shorting speaker leads is NOT something that the manufacturer can make idiot proof without significantly increasing cost and/or compromising performance. Regards, Tim |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Mar 26 06:08AM -0700 On Friday, March 25, 2016 at 11:53:02 PM UTC-4, John Heath wrote: > I have heard this argument too many times as if the costumer is responsible for electrical engineering issues. The customer paid for the amplifier leading a profit for the manufacturer. It is the manufacturer that is responsible to made sure the amplifier is idiot proof. Amplifiers have current limiting circuits which means you can sort the outputs all day long without any damage. If the manufacturer can not be bothered to be responsible for their own engineering leading to output transistor failure than they are in the wrong business. There is no such thing as a costumer that is wrong as he is the one that is paying the money. The failure is always up stream from the costumer. I will now get of my soap box. There is what I define as the Great Aunt Esmeralda issue: Great Aunt Esmeralda is typically in her late 80s, but not frail. She has each and every one of her marbles, and is in full control of same. She is set in her ways, but neither stupid nor fearful. She resists change, but only because at her stage in life she has things right where she wants them. She also votes, every time for every election at every level and is known to do so. As a concept, she is directly responsible for the delay of the shut-off of Analog TV in the US, until its advocates could develop a more intuitive interface. If Esmeralda had to diddle around to turn on her soaps, and missed the first five minutes of the show because the interface was not fully intuitive, she would make dammed sure her congressman knew it! Starting with her Alderman. At the same time, Great Aunt Esmeralda understands that as a consumer, she has some responsibility to 'read the directions' as it were. And as a consumer/customer, to seek clarification when in doubt - and make damned sure that the provider of her goods and services writes directions that are able to be followed by any reasonable consumer with normal intelligence - NO MORE! I have legacy amplifiers from AR, Dynaco, Revox and HK-Citation. EVERY ONE OF THEM cautions against shorting the outputs. Two manufacturers (AR & Dynaco) cautions against running their amplifiers with input, but no connected load. Each, in its own way, also cautions against shorting the two channels together. Several of them add protection circuits (Revox & Dynaco), some add fuses, internal or external (AR & HK) and so forth. And in every case, the directions are clear and unambiguous. Great Aunt Esmeralda would have no difficulty with them, and if she screwed up the connections resulting in a melt-down, she would be fully OK with accepting the consequences. What you suggest is similar to making an automobile manufacturer liable for the consequences of the fact that the accelerator and brakes may be applied at the same time.... Driver error (pilot error/user error) is a real phenomenon such that reasonable accommodations must be made, but the danger of same cannot be obviated. Against stupidity the very gods Themselves contend in vain. Schiller. |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Mar 26 09:27AM -0700 On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 06:11:45 -0500, "Mark Zacharias" >> doesn't stink very much, but white mineral oil really reeks. >You, sir - are an evil Genius! >mz Thank you. Think of it as a VERY slow blow fuse with a built in "indicator". I suspect that even the most dense customer will recognize smoke as an indication that perhaps something is very wrong. Many years ago, when I was an aspiring juvenile delinquent, I removed one end of a 3AG cartridge fuse, stuffed it with cotton, added a few drops of 3-in-1 oil, installed a 0.5 ohm resistor, and somehow soldered it back together without starting a fire. I'll pretend not to remember how I did that. The plan was to make some sort of bomb to irritate some of my friends. Instead of exploding, it produced a substantial amount of smoke and attracted some unwanted official attention. While I don't believe that the world needs a smoking fuse, a similar leaded component might sell to like minded dangerous individuals, such as myself, as an over current alerting system. With some additional complexity, I could add a chemical timer set to slightly longer than the warranty period. I have some ideas on how to do an SMT version. Hmmm.... Kickstarter perhaps? -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Mar 26 09:47AM -0700 On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 20:52:58 -0700 (PDT), John Heath >There is no such thing as a costumer that is wrong as he is >the one that is paying the money. The failure is always up >stream from the costumer. I will now get of my soap box. In the past, when I needed some entertainment, I would read product liability horror stories. It eventually became somewhat of a hobby until I was overwhelmed with horror stories. Your position is quite among customers and product liability attorneys. The legal responsibility is a moving target, varying depending on court decisions, commercial law, and both state and federal laws. Over the years, it has swung in both directions, but at no time has it ever been absolute. The manufacturer, retailer, and customer all have their areas of responsibility with considerable overlap. Very briefly, the courts have recognized that manufacturers cannot produce a 100% safe and reliable product. If they did, nobody could afford it anyway. One compromise is that if a manufacturer can show due diligence in informing the end user that there are some hazards involved in using the product, and the customer is assumed to have been so informed, then the customer cannot claim that they destroyed the product or injured themselves in the manner specified in the documentation. This is where the ever growing mass of legal documents and "read me first" papers originate. If the manual warns that shorting the speaker output is a bad idea, the court will not award the customer damages if they ignore the warning and short the speaker leads. The other side of this coin is whether a "reasonable person" expects products to operate in some manner. In this case, if literally every other audio amp manufacturer includes speaker short circuit protection in their products, but this one does not, a reasonable person would probably expect that every amp is short circuit proof. Depending on the court, that could be considered sufficient for the customer to claim that they did not receive a product "suitable for the intended purpose". With today's low cost of electronic manufacturing, it is often cheaper for a manufacturer to replace the few amps that a few clueless customers manage to blow up, than to include protection circuitry in every product. For example, if adding the protection circuitry required an additional $5 in parts and Yamaha made 250,000 of these amps, then that's $1.25 million in "excess" cost. However, replacing perhaps 1,000 amplifiers, at a cost to sales of about $50/ea or $50,000 is much cheaper. This is probably why Yamaha honored the warranty. If you have an questions, please consult a real attorney. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Mar 26 03:02PM On Sat, 26 Mar 2016 10:43:40 -0400, bitrex wrote: > Is there any way to easily detach this thing without desoldering it from > the board? > http://tinyurl.com/j5cpgu2 Not sure what you mean, but have x-posted this to a more appropriate group. |
| dansabrservices@yahoo.com: Mar 26 08:40AM -0700 On Saturday, March 26, 2016 at 11:06:14 AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote: > > http://tinyurl.com/j5cpgu2 > Not sure what you mean, but have x-posted this to a more appropriate > group. Near as I can tell from the picture, this is an unsolder job only. This is a convenient way to solder a bunch of wires in a single coordinated way. Unsolder the connections and mark one side to be sure you get the orientation correct. Dan |
| chrisdac@gmail.com: Mar 25 12:23PM -0700 Dear Mr. Horne, A sincere THANK YOU for your post. Your details and explanation were spot on. I googled "sharp microwave R-1410A" and this was the first link. I followed your instructions to a T except for the order pizza part. I felt as though thanking you first was more important. -Chris in Massachusetts |
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