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etpm@whidbey.com: Apr 25 10:28AM -0700 On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 01:37:59 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico   >It was bought in 2008 and it gets used about once a week or so (a bit more >now that we have my sister and her kids living with us).   >Any suggestions? Can you open the door to the washer? If not it may be the door interlock has failed. The sound could have been mechanical. If the door interlock doesn't work properly then it is likely the switch in the interlock is preventing the washer from working. I had a similar experience when the door seal failed and squirted water into the interlock switch. Eric

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 25 06:35PM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:33:18 +0800, Rheilly Phoull wrote:   > Google is your friend   > http://applianceassistant.com/Washer-Repair/Duet/Duet-Washer-Error- Codes.php   > Try that and google first before posting.   Thanks for the pointer, but I can't get any codes out of the Whirlpool duet Sport Washer WFW8410SW even though I have the following manuals as described on this post from more than two years ago on the same washer (but for a different problem).   https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.home.repair/whirlpool$20duet$20danny/alt.home.repair/3Q0hbYtmEJI/tN1jjcJdeugJ   Troubleshooting manuals, https://www.whirlpool.com/manuals/   (WFW8410SW) Use & Care Guide: https://www.whirlpool.com/digitalassets/MLPDF/Use%20and%20Care%20Guide%20-%20W10235940.pdf   Parts list: https://www.whirlpool.com/digitalassets/MLPDF/Repair%20Part%20List%20-%20W10238202.pdf   BTW, all the lights light, but nothing works; even the door is locked shut (with the clothes still imprisoned inside).

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 25 06:53PM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:28:12 -0700, etpm wrote:   > similar experience when the door seal failed and squirted water into > the interlock switch. > Eric   You are correct in that the door is locked shut, under all conditions. Whether the washer is plugged in or not, or if the start and cancel are operated, the door won't open.   There is no water because the wash never started, so, it could be the door interlock. Right now I'm searching for a model-specific troubleshooting manual that can give me diagnostic codes.   The model number is WFW8410SW, Whirlpool duet Sport Washing Machine. My last thread on this washing machine was more than two years ago, which I found by going to http://tinyurl.com/alt-home-repair and typing in the washer model number WFW8410SW.   https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.home.repair/WFW8410SW|sort:relevance/alt.home.repair/3Q0hbYtmEJI/FsLs2j_8N58J

etpm@whidbey.com: Apr 25 12:45PM -0700 On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 18:53:58 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico >which I found by going to http://tinyurl.com/alt-home-repair and >typing in the washer model number WFW8410SW.   >https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/alt.home.repair/WFW8410SW|sort:relevance/alt.home.repair/3Q0hbYtmEJI/FsLs2j_8N58J   There should be a manual release of the interlock. Look in the manual. Once the interlock is manually disengaged the washer should try to function normally. If the manual door unlock doesn't work even when actuated then the mechanical linkage may be broken which is what the noise may have been. Or it may be that the switch in the interlock has corroded contacts like mine did from water squirting directly at the switch from a leaky tub seal. On my washer I carefully took apart the switch and cleaned the contacts inside. This fixed the washer operation. I still had to replace the belt, tub pulley, and tub seal. And my nice maple floor is warped under the washer from that damn seal leak. GRRR. If it is the interlock and if your washer is anything like my GE then you are in for some fun. If you enjoy fixing washers. I was pissed off at GE for the lousy construction. Still am for that matter. Eric

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu>: Apr 25 02:46PM -0500 Danny DiAmico wrote:       > There is no water because the wash never started, so, it could > be the door interlock. Right now I'm searching for a model-specific > troubleshooting manual that can give me diagnostic codes. There is a place you can slied a screwdriver or table knife to unlock the door, if you need to.   The smarts are usually just one small PC board in the "console" at the back of the washer. Often there are a few angled screws and the while thing lifts straight up. (OK, looks like yours is a front load, so the construction is a bit different.)   Most of the newer machines, and I'll bet all of the recent front-loads, use 3-phase motors and VFDs integrated into the controller board. I suspect the load pop was something in the VFD blowing. You ought to pull the board and inspect for burst components or traces burned off the board. If you find any of that, it may be best to just replace the whole board (although it will be expensive.)   We have one of the super-efficient top loaders, and I've done quite a bit of maintenance on it.   Jon

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 25 11:10PM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:02:30 -0400, clare wrote:   > If the latch blew up holding the door closed but the switch was thrown > to the other side of the washer and thinks the door is open, you would > have that situation.   I finally got an error code, after fiddling with the buttons. You press any button, rinse cycle is a good one, for 3 to 4 seconds on and then off for the same amount of time, for 3 to as many as it takes times. After a dozen times, I finally saw the error code F28.   F28 appears to be a communications error in the Whirlpool duet sport WFW8410SW where the Main Control Board (CCU W10679602, $300) isn't communicating with the Motor Control Board (MCU W10163007 $265) or if the front or back panel "grounding switches" are open.   Apparently the motor control board (MCU) converts single-phase power to 3 phases to run the motor; it also slows down the motor by braking it electrically.   According to this article, the solution might be as simple as rebooting the computer! http://www.ehow.com/how_8052747_fix-f28-code-whirlpool-duet.html

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 02:16AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:15:03 -0700, Oren wrote:   > A one inch wide flexible putty knife might git under and it a git it > done. Don't use Mon's butter knives for screwdrivers. You have been > warned.   Hi Oren, Opening the door turned out to be easy.   In the WFW8410SW, Whirlpool duet Sport Washing Machine, there is a special pull tab for opening the door.   Here is a picture of it in my washing machine: http://c74i.imgup.net/pulltab19b0a.gif

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 03:26AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:28:49 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:   > It appears that an engineer was thinking the day that was added. > I wonder how hard he/she/it had to argue with the bean counters to > justify the extra cost? ^_^   Yeah. It was nice the door opened so easily with that pull tab made expressly for that purpose. http://c74i.imgup.net/pulltab19b0a.gif   All I needed to do was remove the lower panel, which contained this instruction manual, hidden inside: http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif   Then, there was this drain plug: http://t23i.imgup.net/drain27a1.gif   Which, when loosened, leaked very little water (1/4 inch or so): http://t41i.imgup.net/leak5a84.gif   Unfortunately, the drain plug broke in half when I twisted it out: http://b28i.imgup.net/broken_plu6163.gif   So I will have to deal with that problem later.

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 03:40AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:04:50 -0400, clare wrote:   > Except when I posted the OP had not been able to find any error codes.   That was my mistake to not have the F28 error code earlier, and I'm sorry I didn't have that information for you when I last posted. The instructions given were for a *newer* model washer, so I had to wait until I found the instructions hidden inside my washer to generate that F28 code. http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif   That one error code for the Whirlpool duet sport WFW8410SW washer was F28, which is a communication error between the computer board (CCU) and the motor control board (MCU) and perhaps the lower and back panel grounding switches. http://g31i.imgup.net/f28d702.gif   The ground straps seem to have good contact, so, I think it's the MMU or the CCU but I don't know yet what to do next. http://u33i.imgup.net/groundstraebd1.gif   I wiggled all the wires of the CCU, to no avail: http://h65i.imgup.net/ccub218.gif   And I wiggled all the wires around the surprisingly small motor noting that the belt seemed to be intact and in good shape: http://a26i.imgup.net/motor8386.gif

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 03:51AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:38:21 -0700, Don Y wrote:     > "FAILURE/ERROR DISPLAY CODES Communication of failure codes will > be displayed on the washer console by all cycle lights flashing > and standing status lights."   I found the manual for the WFW8410SW hidden inside the lower panel: http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif   You are indeed correct that the F28 error I have is a "communications error", most likely between the main computer and the motor controller (which converts single-phase AC voltage to three phase). Right now I'm just trying to identify the parts I see so that I can piece together how the darn thing works - so that I can then piece together how to test what's not working.   For example, these are clearly the hot and cold water valves: http://k55i.imgup.net/watervalve2761.gif   This round thing is in the back right top corner, near where the electrical power comes into the washer, but I don't know what it is yet (maybe a vacuum valve of some sort?): http://w48i.imgup.net/roundthingd36d.gif But this is a black object where the power comes into the washer that I don't know what it does and where the wife said the sound seemed to have come from. http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif It doesn't seem burnt though but what is it?

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 04:06AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:07:35 -0400, clare wrote:   > I wouldn't buy the duet anyways - there were too many reported > problems with the model when we bought our new washer/drier pair about > 5 years ago.   Besides the drain cap breaking in half when I removed it today (leaving the important half stuck solid inside the drain tube): http://b28i.imgup.net/broken_plu6163.gif I noticed why the detergent dispenser hasn't been working for the past two years! http://p82i.imgup.net/dispenser5571.gif   The dispenser arm had completely come off its pivot point! http://u13i.imgup.net/diispenser3376.gif   That's not the problem, but, it does show a bad design for the arm. I don't know how it goes back but it looks pretty easy to put together (after I clean it up with some vinegar later).   Here's how I "think" it goes back together, but I'm not gonna worry about it right now as that is not the problem I'm trying to solve at the moment: http://s48i.imgup.net/armputback931f.gif   BTW, does anyone know if there is anything holding the lever to the pivot point? Is it just a press fit? No bolt?

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 04:09AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:10:42 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:   > According to this article, the solution might be as simple as rebooting > the computer! http://www.ehow.com/how_8052747_fix-f28-code-whirlpool-duet.html   That was just wishful thinking.   So was hoping there was something wrong with the power supply: http://r65i.imgup.net/120vb16b.gif

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 04:23AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:52:14 -0700, Don Y wrote:   > Did you run all of the other "tests" to see which pass and > which fail? And, what they have in common?   I have the diagnostic manual that was hidden under the bottom cover but NONE of the subsequent tests do a thing after I get the F28 communications error. http://d04i.imgup.net/diagnostic43d3.gif   > the 120VAC from your mains to ~160VDC) and "switching logic" (FETs) > to control the application of that power to the windings of the > motor -- in a controlled fashion (a "variable frequency drive").   Maybe this black object where the power comes in is the rectifier? http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif   The box doesn't look burnt, but the wife said the popping sound came from that right top back corner - so it may have blown without showing any ill effects on the outside.   > the resistance between each pair of pins AND THE MOTOR CASE. > You'll expect to see a low reading (5-10 ohms). If you see anything > higher, a winding is "open". Anything lower (esp '0'!) is a short.   I can see the motor, but I might need to remove the back in order to better access the motor. The manual that I found inside does give me ohms to look for in the wiring continuity: http://a26i.imgup.net/motor8386.gif > Point of this is to decide if you ALSO need a new motor (chances are, > you DO need a new motor controller).   My task now is to identify all the objects I can see inside, and then to figure out what they fundamentally do and then to figure out how to test them.   > to notice. Compare similar components to each other, carefully > (there are probably 3 or 4 identical circuits driving the motor > and a "chip"/computer driving those circuits.   The motor controller is hard to snap a photo of because it's down low and deep in back so I may need to remove the back panel to access its wires. http://l00i.imgup.net/motorcontr3723.gif   > It's possible that you just have a bad connection in one of the > cables (water can be very corrosive; things can vibrate loose, etc.) > but SOMETHING gave up the ghost.   I wiggled all the connections, but nothing changed.   Here's the CCU controller near the top front right corner: http://h65i.imgup.net/ccub218.gif   I think the most likely thing is that the "black box" in the top left back right corner blew internally - but I need to figure out what it is before I can even think of testing it. http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 04:26AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:14:52 -0700, Don Y wrote:   > - press (and hold) it for 4 seconds > - release for 4 seconds > - press (and hold) it for 4 seconds   That did the trick. F28. Communications Error. No other errors. http://g31i.imgup.net/f28d702.gif

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 04:26AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:05:49 -0400, hubops wrote:   > .. with power on - to generate an error code ? > Pop the lid & examine the door lock mechanism - > carefully - in case the spring is waiting to bite you ..   Door lock appears to be working perfectly. http://w25i.imgup.net/doorlockc3d4.gif

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 04:28AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:54:30 -0700, Oren wrote:   > Guest are like trash -- take it out every three (3) days ...   > Seriously. Have you mentioned to the kids about the rattlesnakes, > yet?   Ah, you remember that rattler, you do. I wish I had a picture of her.   I have found a half dozen since, but now I know EXACTLY what to look for!   I almost got bit by the pool, bending over to clean out the pool pumps, but I catch them now and throw them about a mile away from a five gallon bucket so that they can live, but somewhere else.

Danny DiAmico <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Apr 26 04:31AM On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:45:36 -0700, Oren wrote:   > I'm talking about the washer control panel. Look behind it for > evidence of scorched areas. Directly behind the start / cancel button > pads.   I tried removing that panel, but they must have put the NSA wire tap there because I can't figure out how to remove that front panel yet. http://v52i.imgup.net/frontpanel5fd7.gif   What I need to find are disassembly instructions for the Whirlpool WFW8410SW.

Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com>: Apr 25 10:50AM -0700 On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:59:19 -0000 (UTC), Roger Blake >the old standby and picked up another similar charger at a flea market. >That one also works great.   >"New" and "improved" are not always the same thing.   Hear Hear!!

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Apr 25 07:15PM -0700 On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 22:29:34 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison > the cells in short order by overcharging and hence > overheating them. Ones that rely on sensing the temp > of a cell or run for a fixed time are the main offenders.   The temperature sensing chargers are the worst. I used to deal with them in Kenwood handheld radios. There was a translucent red window in the bottom of the radio battery pack and another in the base of the drop in charger. When the NiCd battery got hot, the IR radiation would go through the windows to a sensor of some sorts in the charger and turn off the charging. At least that was the theory.   The problem was that by the time the surface of the NiCd battery cells were hot enough to register a temperature increase, it was already too late. For NiCd chemistry, the battery only gets hot AFTER it overheats. This system was really good for killing battery packs.   However, there was another problem. When the charger recognized that the battery was hot, it would shut down. After a while, it would cool down, start charging, and repeat the cycle over and over until the battery was finally truly and totally dead.   When NiMH arrived, things changed for the worse. Using a temperature sensor wouldn't work because NiMH normally would get warm while charging. Instead, there was a tiny drop in voltage just before the battery reached full charge. The smart charger chip would detect this drop in voltage and declare the battery to have been successfully charged. That works well until you drop a fully charged battery into the charger. There's no drop in voltage and the charger just keeps charging until the battery overheats and is truly dead.   LiIon chargers are all smart and do a good job of preventing overcharging. You can create a problem with dirty battery contacts, but that's rare. However, LiIon cells deteriorate when left at full charge for too long: <http://www.mpoweruk.com/lithium_failures.htm> Same with leaving it discharged or too hot. The main culprits are desktop replacement laptops, which tend to be left on charge 24x7. Many newer laptop have a charge control that stops charging at 50 to 60% to extend battery life. <http://www.apple.com/batteries/maximizing-performance/> <http://www.howtogeek.com/169669/debunking-battery-life-myths-for-mobile-phones-tablets-and-laptops/> The next generation of LiIon chargers just might have an adjustable EoC (end of charge) control.     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Martin Eastburn <lionslair@consolidated.net>: Apr 25 10:36PM -0500 Right.   I have an old school, run over and bent charger. Heavy due to a Transformer. It charges.   I have a new school, plastic wonder and Electronic. Light as a box. It 'measures' the battery and trashes a battery when the old one fixes it. It will fix sulfur plates by using AC charging. Hard to beat a transformer.   Martin   On 4/25/2016 12:50 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:

MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Apr 25 06:04PM +0100 In article <nflagp$hjf$1@dont-email.me>, diverse@tcp.co.uk says... > "mandrel" for "Dremmels" would do the job if there was a way to extend > the shaft. I'll try the core of a "choc block" connector as a coupler, > but any other ideas?   Strip the insulation off the batteries so they fit?   Mike.

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Apr 25 06:38PM +0100 On 25/04/2016 18:04, MJC wrote: >> but any other ideas?   > Strip the insulation off the batteries so they fit?   > Mike.   Even after shrinking on , its very thin. Don't tell any mechanical engineer. A core of a choc-bloc, 10A?, is just right to join 3/32" shafts together. Luckily I save worn down "dremmel" grinding discs for when I need to cut the narrow edge of a slot in steel plate. So using one of them, a bit smaller than the bores of the GPS, did a great job of material removal to depth, not very pretty and probably not very concentric. Will tidy up with one of those sandpaper cylinder things hot melt glued o nthe end of a hotmelt glue stick , manually turning and sliding.

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Apr 25 06:46PM +0100 Because of the off-axis coupler, I had to wrap 8 turns of 1mm copper wire around non-protruding side of the couple, and grind the screws down to grub screws, to balance things up a bit

Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca>: Apr 25 07:26PM -0400

avagadro7@gmail.com: Apr 25 11:03AM -0700 On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 9:30:32 AM UTC-4, legg wrote: > establishing multiple grounding point integrity.   > Google earth busbar.   > RL   AHA ! busbar busbar .......   a related item.

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