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"Danny D. " <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 08 11:22PM Debugging advice requested. I have never debugged a refrigerator in my life. I never even looked at the back of one before.   2010 Sears Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 refrigerator/freezer just stopped working at the same time that a periodic "humming and then clicking" noise started happening.   Inside temperature this morning was 59F degrees in the frig and 49F in the freezer (outside temperature is about 70F).   Both dial settings are on cold (mid range) where they were always left. There is no on/off switch that we know about. Electricity is working (fan and lights are working).   Fan is blowing full time (dunno if it always did that). http://i.cubeupload.com/dQOTKL.jpg   Coils are at room temperature and are dusty: http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg   Compressor may not be turning on (how can we tell)? http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg   No reason to suspect icemaker water supply yet: http://i.cubeupload.com/myOvgH.jpg   Top of compressor is hot to the touch but not so hot as to burn (but pretty hot otherwise): http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg   We hear a humming noise kick on every five minutes for about 10 or 20 seconds and then a click when it shuts off: http://tinypic.com/r/e6abk7/9   The only things new are the humming noise, and the fact that the refrigerator and freezer aren't working.   First aim is to figure out how this thing works. I was expecting to see a "motor" for the black compressor "bulb" but there is no motor I can see - but the top of the black compressor "bulb" is hot to the touch - but the coils are not.   I think the solenoid at the compressor "bulb" is what is making the noise. Any debugging advice?

"Terry Coombs" <snag_one@msn.com>: Jul 08 06:40PM -0500 Danny D. wrote: > "bulb" is hot to the touch - but the coils are not.   > I think the solenoid at the compressor "bulb" is what is making the > noise. Any debugging advice?   Might be the start cap on the compressor unit - what you're calling a "bulb" is a hermetically sealed compressor with the motor inside . The click you're hearing is probably the overload relay .   -- Snag

Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com>: Jul 09 07:43AM +0800 On 9/07/2016 7:40 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:   > Might be the start cap on the compressor unit - what you're calling a > "bulb" is a hermetically sealed compressor with the motor inside . The click > you're hearing is probably the overload relay .   +1

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 08 07:47PM -0400 On 7/8/2016 7:22 PM, Danny D. wrote: > to the touch - but the coils are not.   > I think the solenoid at the compressor "bulb" is what is making the noise. > Any debugging advice?   Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay on the compressor. This is considered "sealed system". If you have the owners manual, see how long is the sealed system warranty. Probably five years, so you're out of warranty.   If it's out of warranty, are you any good with electrical repairs? Please write back, and we'll continue the discussion.   -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

"tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net>: Jul 08 08:31PM -0400 "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:tYWfz.64194$w13.29910@fx22.iad... > continue the discussion.   > -- > .   I would add that you should unplug the unit until you figure out what is wrong. In the current condition the OC protection is greatly stressed and will not last long.

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Jul 08 08:42PM -0400 On 7/8/2016 7:22 PM, Danny D. wrote: > Compressor may not be turning on (how can we tell)? > http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg > ...   As Terry/Snag said, it's very likely that the start cap is bad & the click you hear is the overload protector opening. (It will cycle back on after it has cooled.)   In that picture, the capacitor is the black module under the connector. Sears parts calls it a "run cap", but even so it is very likely the bad part. You should hope that it is because it's cheap & other possible bad parts are not.   http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-part/10659422801/0582/0165000/k0902005/00009.html   Bob   BTW - you should unplug the fridge.

"Danny D. " <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 09 12:49AM On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 19:47:38 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:     > If it's out of warranty, are you any good with > electrical repairs? Please write back, and we'll > continue the discussion.   Thanks for the advice. The last thing I fixed with your help was the washing machine, who had an F28/F11 which meant the motor control board was fried.   Before that, it was a non-operational furnace (bad thermistor), and before that there were a host of things, most of which are working just fine now.   I have the frig unplugged to cool the black compressor "sealed system" down (right now the black top of the "sealed system" is warm to the touch but not hot).   A few questions of what I should expect, since I'm not sure that I understand how the thing works yet.   Of course, I know that decompressing fluid freon (or whatever it uses) to a gas makes the freon cold which makes the pipes that run through the refrigerator cold, and then recompressing that recirculating gas back to a liquid creates heat which is blown off by the fan - but I don't know the mechanics of what I should expect (e.g., what pumps the fluid/gas through the system? Gravity?).   So I have questions if I may ask...   0. Are there 3 things inside the "sealed unit"? a. Motor b. Compressor c. Solenoid   1. Is the sealed unit a replaceable part? http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg (same pic as before)   2. Why would the top of the black sealed unit be hot to the touch?   3. Is there a motor overheat safety switch that may have tripped?   4. Are those black coils in the bottom supposed to be warm or cold? http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg (same pic as before)   5. I don't see motion, but the vibrating can be felt on the solenoid on the OUTSIDE of the sealed unit (it may be translating from inside though). What is the purpose of that solenoid on the outside of the sealed unit? http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg (same pic as before)   In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back in and report back.

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Jul 08 08:50PM -0400 Also - the 10 or 20 seconds of humming that you hear is the motor TRYING to start. It can't without the cap & that that why the "bulb" is hot.

"Danny D. " <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 09 01:26AM On Fri, 8 Jul 2016 18:40:55 -0500, Terry Coombs wrote:   > Might be the start cap on the compressor unit - what you're calling a > "bulb" is a hermetically sealed compressor with the motor inside . The click > you're hearing is probably the overload relay .   Is this black rectangle the start cap? http://i.cubeupload.com/aOLfge.jpg   I disconnected the spring (what is it there for?). I disconnected the wiring. I tried to pull the black cap outward. I tried to pull the gray base outward.   Neither would budge. Have you removed them before?   Is there a trick to removing them?

"Danny D. " <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 09 01:36AM On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 07:43:45 +0800, Rheilly Phoull wrote:   >> "bulb" is a hermetically sealed compressor with the motor inside . The click >> you're hearing is probably the overload relay .   > +1   Does this 20-second video sound like what you'd expect if the start cap wasn't working?   http://tinypic.com/r/e6abk7/9

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 08 10:16PM -0400 On 7/8/2016 8:31 PM, tom wrote:   > I would add that you should unplug the unit until you figure out what is > wrong. In the current condition the OC protection is greatly stressed and > will not last long.   You are so, so right. The compressor will eventually over heat and might burn out.   Thank you, well said.   -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 08 10:24PM -0400 On 7/8/2016 8:49 PM, Danny D. wrote: > F28/F11 which meant the motor control board was fried.   > Before that, it was a non-operational furnace (bad thermistor), and before > that there were a host of things, most of which are working just fine now.   CY: Glad to be some help. Any time (well, figuratively speaking).   > liquid creates heat which is blown off by the fan - but I don't know the > mechanics of what I should expect (e.g., what pumps the fluid/gas through > the system? Gravity?).   CY: The big black thing in the back is a compressor.   > a. Motor > b. Compressor > c. Solenoid   CY: No, the motor and compressor are inside. The start relay (and some have a relay and a capacitor) outside the sealed unit. The relay and cap should never contact refrigerant. That said, the company probably considers the relay and cap to be part of the sealed system.     > 1. Is the sealed unit a replaceable part? > http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg (same pic as before)   CY: Yes. Though, it's often not cost effective. Requires refrigerant pump, brazing, electrical, and more than that. Takes about three hours.     > 2. Why would the top of the black sealed unit be hot to the touch?   CY: The black sealed unit contains electric windings for the motor. The unit keeps trying to start the compressor. Amp draw, turns the electric watts into heat.     > 3. Is there a motor overheat safety switch that may have tripped?   CY: Yes, that combination amp and temp safety switch is what gives you the repeated hum click.     > 4. Are those black coils in the bottom supposed to be warm or cold? > http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg (same pic as before) CY: When the refrig is running, warm. They should NEVER get cold.   > OUTSIDE of the sealed unit (it may be translating from inside though). What > is the purpose of that solenoid on the outside of the sealed unit? > http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg (same pic as before)   CY: The compressor has two windings. Start, and run. The relay supplies power to the start winding, and then later power to the run winding.       > In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back > in and report back.   CY: I'm guessing it will do exactly the same hum click routine. It's late on the east coast, I'm going to bed. -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 08 10:25PM -0400 On 7/8/2016 8:49 PM, Danny D. wrote:   > In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back > in and report back.   As a Kenmore, you may be able to buy OEM parts, but if it were my unit, I'd use a universal hard start kit. Seeing as how I carry them in my vehicle and use the universal kits at work.   -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 08 10:27PM -0400 On 7/8/2016 9:26 PM, Danny D. wrote:   > Neither would budge. > Have you removed them before?   > Is there a trick to removing them?   To keep these parts from coming off.   Pull straight out from compressor. Might need to pry with slotted screw driver. Wiggle them back and forth while pulling.     -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . .

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Jul 08 10:37PM -0400 On 7/8/2016 9:26 PM, Danny D. wrote: >> you're hearing is probably the overload relay .   > Is this black rectangle the start cap? > http://i.cubeupload.com/aOLfge.jpg   Yes     > Neither would budge. > Have you removed them before?   > Is there a trick to removing them?   The spring is there to hold the cap in place. It is simply plugged into the overload/relay body. See: http://www.searspartsdirect.com/kenmore-refrigerator-parts/2264017/0046/106/model-10659422801/0582/0165000.html   It's not clear how the base is fastened, but you probably won't have to remove it anyhow.   Bob

"Danny D. " <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 09 02:40AM On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 20:42:33 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:   > As Terry/Snag said, it's very likely that the start cap is bad & the > click you hear is the overload protector opening. (It will cycle back > on after it has cooled.)   Thank you for that advice. The start cap does not look damaged from the outside, but it may be damaged from the inside.   I'm not sure how to debug if it's the start cap or if it's the "overload and start relay" though.   > possible bad parts are not.   > http://www.searspartsdirect.com/model-part/10659422801/0582/0165000/k0902005/00009.html   > Bob   Thank you for that diagram Bob.   Since understanding what it is that I'm looking at helps to begin debugging, I took the liberty of annotating all the parts on it.   How does this look? http://i.cubeupload.com/5z2J05.gif   Are these the primary suggested parts to consider debugging? - #16=Refrigerator overload and start relay Part #: W10189190 Substitution: WPW10189190 $45.17 - #17=Refrigerator run capacitor Part #: 2264017 Substitution: WPW10662129 $10.39 - #28=Refrigerator compressor assembly Part #: W10183575 Substitution: W10233961 $358.40   Is it even possible for a homeowner to replace the compressor #28?

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Jul 08 10:54PM -0400 On 7/8/2016 10:40 PM, Danny D. wrote: >> on after it has cooled.)   > Thank you for that advice. The start cap does not look damaged from the > outside, but it may be damaged from the inside.   Caps go bad without looking damaged (except electrolytics will bulge).   > debugging, I took the liberty of annotating all the parts on it.   > How does this look? > http://i.cubeupload.com/5z2J05.gif   How did you do that?   > - #28=Refrigerator compressor assembly Part #: W10183575 Substitution: > W10233961 $358.40   > Is it even possible for a homeowner to replace the compressor #28?   Those are them. The cap is the easiest, cheapest, and most likely to be bad. "Easy" in the sense of removing & replacing. Testing for bad is not real easy, but doable.   The overload/relay is probably just plugged onto 2 prongs sticking out of the compressor can. Debugging it might be a challenge.   Replacing the compressor is definitely not a homeowner job.

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 09 05:27AM On Fri, 08 Jul 2016 22:54:05 -0400, Bob Engelhardt wrote:   >> How does this look? >> http://i.cubeupload.com/5z2J05.gif   > How did you do that?   I just saved the diagram you pointed me to, which also had the parts name and prices, and I annotated the diagram with the parts name and price using a freeware editor (Paint.NET on Windows).   > Those are them. The cap is the easiest, cheapest, and most likely to be > bad. "Easy" in the sense of removing & replacing. Testing for bad is > not real easy, but doable.   You guys gave me the confidence on the cap to use more force, and when I did, the cap came right off (thanks!): http://i.cubeupload.com/uHWsBd.jpg   The relay is still stuck on the compressor. http://i.cubeupload.com/EnZxki.jpg   The cap looks good and doesn't smell burnt, but, for $10, it's not worth testing the cap: http://i.cubeupload.com/PiHwXk.jpg   Besides, there's ten times that in food waiting to be spoiled! http://i.cubeupload.com/36h0Z0.jpg   Note to Oren: Those aren't huckleberries; 'dems elderberries!   > The overload/relay is probably just plugged onto 2 prongs sticking out > of the compressor can. Debugging it might be a challenge.   > Replacing the compressor is definitely not a homeowner job. I was afraid of that.   So are these my basic choices? a) capacitor, or b) relay, or c) new frig?   Any idea how to test the relay?

makolber@yahoo.com: Jul 08 12:10PM -0700 > Other than replace the 2 core mains cable with 3 core ,any ideas ?   add a suitable safety rated Y cap.   Google Y cap.   M

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jul 08 08:36PM -0700 > > Other than replace the 2 core mains cable with 3 core ,any ideas ?   > add a suitable safety rated Y cap.   ** Bad idea.     .... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jul 08 08:59PM -0700 N_Cook wrote: > between Tx and chassis under the 2 mounting flanges, held with 2 steel > bolts and washers, damps acoustic resonanace/vibration? > Other than replace the 2 core mains cable with 3 core ,any ideas ?   ** The mains noise is being injected BECAUSE the chassis is not earthed.   Having no earth allows the chassis to float at about half the AC voltage - due to primary/secondary leakage capacitance in the AC tranny. Any guitar plugged into the amp will also be floating at the same voltage, about 120 VAC above ground.   Now, unless that guitar has *perfect* shielding on all its wiring and pickups ( they never do ) the high frequency part of the mains voltage wave will be injected direct into the wiring by any stray capacitance to ground - then amplified by 60 to 80dB.   Non earthed guitar amps are only noise free IF they are run from battery power.     .... Phil

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu>: Jul 08 02:47PM -0500 >> When the alarm is activated the 24VDC is removed from the coils and the >> doors are supposed to be automatically pulled closed by the force of the >> pneumatic unit. This doesn't always work   Try putting one layer of wide vinyl tape over either the electromagnet or the door plate. (A couple parallel strips of ordinary electrician's tape could also be used to test this idea.) If it now releases, remanent magnetic field is certainly the problem. Possibly you could get a thin durable material that could permanently replace the tape, which will eventually wear down and cause the problem to recur.   Jon

Rheilly Phoull <rheilly@bigslong.com>: Jul 09 07:47AM +0800 > Not true. Most of the systems that I have seen will automatically release the doors during a power fail. Since these are fire doors, the default is to close them in any "emergency". A power failure is considered an emergency and the doors are released.   > As matter of fact, during a fire inspection we will trigger these doors in one of two ways: 1) Fire alarm trip and 2) power failure. In order for the facility to pass the inspection, both methods need to work.   > Dan   True, but we were discussing the mechanism's operating power.

avagadro7@gmail.com: Jul 08 05:16PM -0700 Clean hinges with CRC Spray Silicone/\...use the spray as a cleaning hose..   then lube hinges with a drop or 2 of     http://www.3inone.com/images/3in1/product-lock-dry-lube.jpg   at HD

Micky <NONONObobbyburns1111@gmail.com>: Jul 08 01:48PM -0400 >> http://www.gizmag.com/killerdrone-chainsaw/42605/?li_source=LI&li_medium=default-widget   >> Good for another episode of some horror movie.   >I you're talking about removing hard-to-get tree branches that you can't reach, then a remote-controlled might be good,   My MASER is in the shop, but a drone chainsaw reminds me of the part in the Superman movie from arounnd 1970. Lois is falls or is pushed off the edge of a tall building and she's falling, of course, and Superman swoops over, grabs her, and says, "Don't worry. I've got you." Lois looks around and says "Who's got you!"   When the chain saw chain hits the branch, the chainsaw/drone will be flung forward before it can cut anything. I think that applies to the one in the url above, and nothing in it shows that they actually cut anything. To have a chain saw fixed in position enought to cut, you'd need a drone the size of a small car. Maybe a big tree service could afford one. They'd need a big flatbed truck to carry it.

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