| frank <frank@invalid.net>: Dec 10 04:44PM > ** A sustained overload, high ambient temp or both will cause that. Isn't the overload likely to blow the main AC fuse? >> to some external equipment that is earthed. > ** One way to make the amp safe is to fit a 3 core AC lead to it and remove > the double square symbol. I'll do this. Thanks Frank |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Dec 09 02:44PM -0600 On 12/9/2016 11:20 AM, John Harmon wrote: > http://i.cubeupload.com/RubZhV.gif > http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg > Clearly I'm confused how to do the conversion. Ya, I am to. But first let me say this, The first spec you posted, 0* 14' plus or minus 10', seems this isn't as critical as some posters are making it. For toe, it is still a trig problem, but the problem is defining, side b (a reference point). > http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp I wonder do the shops attach a laser and measure on a wall scale a defined distance away? I don't know this, is it a single adjustment that moves both wheels or do you adjust both wheels separately? (makes a reference even more important) Sorry just thinking on the keypad. You have a trig problem and a measurement problem. The measurement problem is more difficult. It is not be hard to convert the 14 minutes to inches using the wheel diameter as one line. The angle is how much more is the front of the wheel turned in more than the rear of the wheel. I'll call the wheel 16" from front to rear. (just realized this almost the same trig problem for camber, just rotated 90*) I'm using the trig calculator above, this time the orientation is correct. Put the following numbers in, (side c) = 16, (angle A) = .233. The angle is .233 because 14min/60min = .233. Your answer is (side a) which is 0.065". So, you want the rear of a 16" wheel stick out 0.065" more than the front. Not real easy to measure, But, if you could extend the 16" to 12 ft (192") with a laser pointer, then (side a) is 0.781". The laser must be perfectly square with the wheel. Just some thinking. Hope it makes some sense. Mikek |
| jurb6006@gmail.com: Dec 09 01:35PM -0800 >"Meanwhile, the Toyota is a dream child to repair when something does go wrong (which is almost never) simply because Toyota knows something BMW doesn't know, which is how to design a complete vehicle. " It gets better than that. I used to work with a guy from Poland. Said he could not believe how many tools you need for cars in the US, which includes Toyotas. Says the ones they sell over there come apart with like a half dozen wrenches while here you need all kinds of Torx and whatever else they can invent. For reasons beyond the scope of this text which is already beyond the scope of this thread, people over there have more of a tendency to fix their own stuff. Seems people in the US are getting lazy, to the point where they will jiggle the handle on the toilet for ten years rather than to adjust it. |
| jurb6006@gmail.com: Dec 09 01:53PM -0800 >"You have a trig problem and a measurement problem. The measurement problem is more difficult. " I was wondering when someone was going to mention trig. What he needs is something to act as a really huge caliper. Looking at the bottom of most cars there is no centerline to be found. Actually is you can be absolutely sure the car is on a level surface, something like a plum bob could work. Measruing it accurately is still a problem, from the rim to a string ? And adjusting to minutes with only like 16" to work with ? No thanks. But the good news is that you don't need the BMW alignment machine, they are not really brand specific. That means he does not have to go to the dealer and pay three times what an independent would charge. On older cars I did set the toe in a few times. There was enough clearance to measure underneath wheel to wheel. Whaddya think the odds of that are here ? Did Slim leave town ? I never set caber or caster in the old backyard, but usually you don't heave to, even after replacing ball joints. They have to pretty far out of spec to affect it enough, really. Still, usually I would just pay the damn forty bucks and have it aligned. Of course that forty bucks is now a hundred, but how much is a set of tires ? A nice set of Dunlops or Michelins is worth the cost of an alignment, plus the car handles better. Plus with really good tires it rides better and quieter. But some people are penny wise and pound foolish. |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Dec 09 04:14PM -0600 >> "You have a trig problem and a measurement problem. > The measurement problem is more difficult. " > I was wondering when someone was going to mention trig. You just haven't read all the posts, I have at least 3 maybe 4 posts that mention trig and I posted a calculator, with the problem to solve. > What he needs is something to act as a really huge caliper. Looking at the bottom of most cars there is no centerline to be found. I mentioned finding the reference is the hardest part. > Actually is you can be absolutely sure the car is on a level surface, something like a plum bob could work. Measuring it accurately is still a problem, from the rim to a string ? And adjusting to minutes with only like 16" to work with ? No thanks. I also mentioned if you could mount a laser square to the wheel, then you could measure at 16ft on a wall and use 0.781" instead of 0.065". I said 12ft in my post, that was wrong. > But the good news is that you don't need the BMW alignment machine, they are not really brand specific. That means he does not have to go to the dealer and pay three times what an independent would charge. > On older cars I did set the toe in a few times. There was enough clearance to measure underneath wheel to wheel. Whaddya think the odds of that are here ? Did Slim leave town ? I never set camber or caster in the old backyard, but usually you don't have to, even after replacing ball joints. They have to pretty far out of spec to affect it enough, really. Still, usually I would just pay the damn forty bucks and have it aligned. Of course that forty bucks is now a hundred, but how much is a set of tires ? A nice set of Dunlops or Michelins is worth the cost of an alignment, plus the car handles better. Plus with really good tires it rides better and quieter. > But some people are penny wise and pound foolish. And sometimes people are penny wise and also pound wise. It really ads up over 30 years. Mikek |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 10 03:54AM amdx actually said: > Ya, I am to. But first let me say this, The first spec you posted, > 0* 14' plus or minus 10', seems this isn't as critical as some posters > are making it. Now that I've done some more research, I have a better handle on 'toe' so I'm going to agree with you that getting toe precise to 2 minutes isn't all that important, in all likelihood. For *setting* toe, especially in the rear, it could easily be that 0 toe (degrees or inches) would be just fine, or, maybe, to take up some suspension slop, a "smidgeon" of toe (maybe 1/16th of an inch or less in linear dimension no matter what the wheel/tire diameter). This is to take up the slop in the suspension (perhaps slightly more in the front if it's a typical RWD like all my vehicles are). > For toe, it is still a trig problem, but the problem is defining, > side b (a reference point). > > http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp I'm still confused how to convert toe from degrees to inches, but luckily, there are web sites that will do it for us. https://robrobinette.com/ConvertToeInchesToDegrees.htm > I wonder do the shops attach a laser and measure on a wall scale a > defined distance away? Interesting you mention that, because the reason for the *far away* wall is simply that the angle is small, right? > do you adjust both wheels separately? (makes a reference even more > important) > Sorry just thinking on the keypad. If you are talking about toe, I'm no expert, but the way I understand it is that you lock the steering wheel in the center position first (which has nothing, per se, to do with alignment but with esthetics) - and then - you pick a side, and twist a tie-rod ever so slightly - which - depending on the direction of twist, moves the front of the wheel in toward the centerline of the vehicle - or outward. So it's one wheel at a time, measured to the centerline. Of course, you can assume all sorts of symmetries and do both wheels at the same time, but conceptually I think of toe as a wheel-to-centerline thing, to be done one at a time. > You have a trig problem and a measurement problem. > The measurement problem is more difficult. That's an interesting observation that the measurement problem is more difficult, but I think only if we try to measure degrees of toe. If we measure inches of toe, the measurement problem is conceptually trivially simple. > It is not be hard to convert the 14 minutes to inches using the wheel > diameter as one line. I'm trying to find the triangle in the equation of toe in order to figure out how to convert the distance measurement to an angle. Here I just drew what is my first pass guess at where that triangle lies: http://i.cubeupload.com/ZmdfeN.gif Is *this* the trigonometric angle everyone is talking about? > in more than the rear of the wheel. I'll call the wheel 16" > from front to rear. (just realized this almost the same trig problem for > camber, just rotated 90*) You make a good point here in that we really have a 3-dimensional X, Y, and Z axis, each of which is rotated by 90 degrees (caster, camber, and toe). > The laser must be perfectly square with the wheel. > Just some thinking. Hope it makes some sense. > Mikek Just to ask to get me more firmly grounded, is *this* the triangle everyone is talking about? http://i.cubeupload.com/ZmdfeN.gif |
| tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>: Dec 09 11:20PM -0500 On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 15:14:34 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon wrote: > The problem, for my bimmer, is that the manufacturer specifies the toe in > degrees, yet we measure in inches. So don't measure in inches. If you have tools to measure camber in degrees, you can surely repurpose them to measure toe-in in degrees also, no? HTH. Cheers, -- tlvp -- Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP. |
| Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>: Dec 10 05:46AM +0100 Am 09.12.16 um 20:11 schrieb John Harmon: > My japanese vehicle is sort of like Android; it just works. > The bimmer is more like my iPad; it constantly can't do basic stuff. > :) The problem is obviously not the hardware; it is the user. *SCNR* -- http://www.albasani.net/index.html.de Ein freier und kostenloser Server fuer Usenet/NetNews (NNTP) |
| Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch>: Dec 10 05:46AM +0100 Am 09.12.16 um 20:46 schrieb nospam: >> The bimmer is more like my iPad; it constantly can't do basic stuff. > only because you're too stupid to figure out how, particularly after > people repeatedly explain to you exactly how. *FACK* -- http://www.albasani.net/index.html.de Ein freier und kostenloser Server fuer Usenet/NetNews (NNTP) |
| tlvp <mPiOsUcB.EtLlLvEp@att.net>: Dec 10 12:04AM -0500 On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 17:58:43 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon wrote: > ... certainly I am confused about how to > convert a toe specification that is given in degrees to a toe measurement > which will be made in inches. Same here, but about temperatures using wall thermometers: people always spec out temperature in degrees but all I see is how many inches the column of mercury is, no idea how to convert degrees into inches here either :-) . Can you help :-) ? Cheers, -- tlvp -- Avant de repondre, jeter la poubelle, SVP. |
| Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>: Dec 10 09:58AM tlvp wrote: > Same here, but about temperatures using wall thermometers: people always > spec out temperature in degrees but all I see is how many inches the column > of mercury is, no idea how to convert degrees into inches here either Smartphones contain 3-axis accelerometer chips and magnetic compass chips, but AFAIK (unlike digital levels) they don't contain an inclinometer chip, so the accuracy from a phone is not likely to be high, the "bubble level" apps you can get for phones are a bit of a joke, they'll probably be influenced by large chunks of metal nearby. The spec of the MEMS inclinometers in digital levels seems to be +/-6 minutes when measuring horizontal or vertical and +/-12 minutes for other angles, so even they would be marginal. |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 09 06:17PM nospam actually said: >> But angles are the units that the manufacturer provides for toe while I'm >> almost certainly going to measure toe with a distance measurement. > not if you want to do it correctly, you won't. This article states that you can get as accurate at home as you need to: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/wheels-tires/modp-1010-diy-wheel-alignment/ Here's how they measured toe-in, for example: http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/30286048+w+h+q80+re0+cr1/modp_1010_06_o%2bdiy_wheel_alignment%2bstring_box.jpg Notice they measured toe in linear measurements. |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 09 07:11PM nospam actually said: > buy another >> My bimmer always breaks. > sell it or give it away My japanese vehicle is sort of like Android; it just works. The bimmer is more like my iPad; it constantly can't do basic stuff. :) |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 09 07:09PM > combined with a very tight grip on your money (although how that goes > along with driving a wiener wagon, I cannot for the life of me figure > out) I appreciate your advice. Here are the diagrams I made for toe based on your pragmatic advice. 1. This shows why toe is specified as an angle to the centerline: http://i.cubeupload.com/rtvi9L.gif 2. This shows why an *angle* is better than a distance specification: http://i.cubeupload.com/BzNqBY.gif 3. This shows that Total Toe is a distance while toe is an angle: http://i.cubeupload.com/kYxrgm.gif If that is correct, the only problem I have understanding in the spec is why the total toe is specified in angles when it should be the difference in the distance between the front and rear tracks to the centerline: http://i.cubeupload.com/RubZhV.gif http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg |
| nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Dec 09 02:46PM -0500 In article <o2evkp$hl2$1@news.mixmin.net>, John Harmon > > sell it or give it away > My japanese vehicle is sort of like Android; it just works. > The bimmer is more like my iPad; it constantly can't do basic stuff. only because you're too stupid to figure out how, particularly after people repeatedly explain to you exactly how. |
| Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au>: Dec 10 11:16PM +1100 On 10/12/2016 5:17 AM, John Harmon wrote: > Here's how they measured toe-in, for example: > http://image.superstreetonline.com/f/30286048+w+h+q80+re0+cr1/modp_1010_06_o%2bdiy_wheel_alignment%2bstring_box.jpg > Notice they measured toe in linear measurements. You might find these links useful http://tinyurl.com/jdas8oy http://tinyurl.com/jud2p3b Note, if you alter camber, toe will alter and you will need to check and adjust if required. HTH -- Xeno First they ignore you, Then they ridicule you, Then they fight you, Then you win. Mahatma Ghandi |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Dec 10 06:40AM -0600 On 12/9/2016 12:14 PM, John Harmon wrote: > http://i.cubeupload.com/XocXQ9.jpg > Here's an even better camber jig setup for home use: > http://i.cubeupload.com/J0UuYd.png If either of those devices had a laser pointer in them that point up, you could do a trig problem using the ceiling for camber, and on the front wall by rotating the device 90* for toe. Hey, just noticed your link, http://i.cubeupload.com/XocXQ9.jpg has the sears level shown here, http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-in-digital-lasertrac-reg-level/p-00948292000P?sid=BVReview The Sears level does have a laser in it. That will do what I suggest, rotate it 90* and point it forward to see a spot on the wall. Find the centerline of your car and then it's a simple trig problem. The hard part, finding the centerline of your car. I'm not sure this helps you though, I saw no evidence that you understood how the trig solves turning the angle into inches. Mikek |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Dec 10 05:44AM -0800 After all this - consider the implication: An individual with the comprehension of the common garden slug has taken tools to the suspension of a heavy machine capable of significant speed and will then put it on the road amongst similar machines. Worse, that same slug will likely be operating the machine, perhaps with others in it. Anyone here wish to be on the road nearby? Not I, certainly. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this group. You can change your settings on the group membership page. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an email to sci.electronics.repair+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. |
No Response to "Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 18 updates in 2 topics"
Post a Comment