| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 08 05:00PM Practical advice (helpful hints & suggestions) requested from those of you who have successfully checked camber at home (to sufficient accuracy). If you have never checked your automotive alignment camber at home, you probably won't be able to add much practical value to this thread; however if you have actually measured your wheel camber with sufficient accuracy at home, you almost certainly can add valuable pragmatic hints to this thread (such that we'll all learn from your experience). I am researching whether automotive alignment camber quick checks are yet possible to a reasonable degree of accuracy using a free app on a common mobile device (either iOS or Android, both of which I own). A search does find a variety of methods to check camber at home: https://www.google.com/search?q=check+camber+at+home where some of those articles used mobile phone apps (e.g., XXXXXX) Here I am just asking for advice from those of you who have successfully checked your camber at home using your smartphone to measure the angles to sufficient accuracy. To find apps which measure angles to sufficient accuracy, I have already run a variety of Google searches of the general form: 1. review best ios free app angle automotive alignment camber accurate 2. review best android free app angle automotive alignment camber accurate Some hits from the iOS searches are as follows: A. Wheel Align for ALiSENSOR Wheel By Gloi AB https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/wheel-align-for-alisensor/id513879710 B. iHandy Level Free By iHandy Inc. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/ihandy-level-free/id299852753 C. Clinometer + bubble level + slope finder (3 in 1) By Peter Breitling https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/clinometer-+-bubble-level/id286215117 Some hits from the Android searches are as follows: A. Clinometer + bubble level By plaincode https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.plaincode.clinometer B. iHandy Level Free By iHandy Ltd. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.ihandysoft.carpenter.level C. Angle Meter PRO By nakhon phagdeechat https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=iyok.com.anglemeterpro The amount of useless responses to this thread can be minimized simply by asking those who don't care to or who haven't ever successfully checked their camber at home to NOT respond (they're not going to be able to tell us anything we don't already know - all they're going to do is clutter up this thread to make it harder to be useful to others). However, if you have ever attempted to check your camber at home using a smart phone angle measuring tool, your insight, hints, and advice would be greatly appreciated (and would be generally useful to many people). |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Dec 08 09:10AM -0800 Horatio Alger and/or one of his many clones is trolling again. Just check the source. As to checking Camber "at home". When it comes to vehicular safety, when it comes to the lives of my wife, kids and grandkids, not to mention me, my advice is DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME - as no matter how smart the phone, the operator will be an idiot. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 08 05:23PM Ooooops. > A search does find a variety of methods to check camber at home: > https://www.google.com/search?q=check+camber+at+home > where some of those articles used mobile phone apps I had forgotten to link to a descriptive photo of the desired task: http://i.cubeupload.com/6CPUl7.jpg I'm sure there are gotchas (e.g., is the garage floor really flat?), but it seems doable to measure camber at home if we can answer the main obvious questions which are (I think): Q: What accuracy is *needed* to measure camber at home? Q: What accuracy can be *attained* with a typical mobile device? Q: Is the repeatability sufficient in a typical home measurement setup? Q: How do we compensate for typical errors (e.g., ride height, flat floor)? What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup? |
| "Steve W." <csr684@NOTyahoo.com>: Dec 08 01:32PM -0500 John Harmon wrote: > seems doable to measure camber at home if we can answer the main obvious > questions which are (I think): > Q: What accuracy is *needed* to measure camber at home? .01 degree or better. > Q: What accuracy can be *attained* with a typical mobile device? ?????????? don't use one myself > Q: Is the repeatability sufficient in a typical home measurement setup? > Q: How do we compensate for typical errors (e.g., ride height, flat floor)? Same way you do with the machines, Measure the floor and level the machine prior to use. Using an app you could check the floor span where you plan to do the work and zero it out. > What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel > camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup? How to attach the device to the wheel/hub. -- Steve W. |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Dec 08 11:21AM -0800 On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote: > How to attach the device to the wheel/hub. Not possible centered on the axle and neutral in two axis without additional (and expensive) tooling. Hence the "Idiot Operator" requirement. Once again, Harmon/Alger is trolling for a Darwin Award. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Dec 08 11:50AM -0800 On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 1:32:37 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote: > How to attach the device to the wheel/hub. Not possible centered on the axle and neutral in two axis without additional (and expensive) tooling. Hence the "Idiot Operator" requirement. Once again, Harmon/Alger is trolling for a Darwin Award. NOTE: Azimuth accuracy in smart-phone devices (departure from the vertical) is typically less than 10 degrees. OK for orienting the picture on the phone, not so much for measuring tire camber. Pushing right up against the "Idiot Operator" requirement for trusting such a device for such a purpose. It would be quite useful were the OP to actually make adjustments based on such a device - if we could only be sure when he inevitably wraps himself around a tree thereafter that he does so without any collateral damage. Yes, I am being snarky - but if ever there was a situation for such - this is one. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 08 08:12PM > 0.01deg ?? I don't think so... We really must know to what accuracy we need the measurements to be becuase every measurement tool ever made has this as its basic issue. Do you think it's less, or more accurate that we need for camber measurement? As just one reference, page 8 of this document says that camber (and toe) measurements must be accurate to "2 angular minutes". http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/snitch740i/original/BMW_Wheel_Alignment_System%5B1%5D.pdf The question then becomes how to translate 2 angular minutes into inch measurements. On page 10 of that document it says the camber tolerance of another vehicle model is ? 10' (plus or minus 10 minutes). So what is 10 minutes in inches? > If your car doesn't pull to one side and the tire is not wearing un-evenly, > the camber is fine. I realize there are many ways to measure things, and I understand that you're using the tire wear and handling to measure camber, but I would like to try to get a bit finer in granularity (especially since lots of other things can cause both those issues). > I have used an ordinary carpenters bubble level to check it. I have plenty of carpenters bubble levels, one with digital output, so that's also another option. > If it is within 1/4 bubble it should be OK. I understand what you're saying which is that the negative camber on my rear tires can be anywhere between 0 and minus 2 degrees. But I would like to get a bit more accurate than 1/4 bubble! :) One of my cars specifies the following static camber range, for example: Front (non-adjustable) camber = -0.7? minimum, 0.3? maximum Rear (adjustable) camber = -2.2 ?mimimum, -2.0? maximum ( http://www.bmwdiy.info/alignment/index.html ) > Most roads have crown so the camber is not as critical as you might think. Some cars compensate for that by specificying cross camber specs, but mine are symmetric. The static negative camber is "supposed" to increase lateral grip. At the same time, it certainly increases inner tire edge wear and decreases straight-line braking traction. On uneven road surfaces, you can get camber thrust (where the tire moves toward the camber). > Problems with this method are: > 1 ground where the car is parked needs to be both flat and level Yup. That's a measurement and calibration issue for sure, but luckily, my garage is extremely flat (I measured it once long ago). > 2 ordinary tire bulges out on the bottom, need to set the level > against the tire away from the buldge That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to? > Sometimes you can simply compare the reading on the front wheels > to the back wheels. This is a good hint, which is that we can just note what the *delta* is between the front and back, and measure that delta, over time, with a handy instrument. > Also note many cars are designed to have the front wheels tilted > inward at the top slightly for stability Mine has negative camber on both front and rear, but front isn't adjustable without adding camber plates. > Unless you like this as a hobby, it probably doesn't pay to DIY. I disagree but I understand your point. On sheer economy, there are only 3 measurements I need for my sedan: 1. toe front 2. toe rear 3. camber rear So all I need, to do a "pragmatic" alignment check, is to check those three. A. If they're off, then I can get the car aligned for $100 or more. B. If they're on target, then I save $100 each time I measure them. > Measuring toe in is much more fun. On page 14 of the document above, it tells me that the static toe and camber accuracy needs to be: Toe measuring accuracy ?2' in measuring range ?2? in total range ?18? Camber measuring accuracy ?1' in measuring range ?3? in total range ?10? http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches? |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 08 08:12PM Steve W. actually said: >> Q: What accuracy is *needed* to measure camber at home? > .01 degree or better. Thanks for that answer because this is a critical number we must know to do any aligment reasonably well. If everyone concurs that 0.01 (one hundredth) of a degree is the desired accuracy, I can work with that. One problem with alignment is that we have to be intelligent about converting units because I found this document where, on page 11, it says: [quote] Quick-acting clamp + measuring sensor + computer = 1' at a measuring range of ? 3? (all BMW vehicles are within that ? 3? measuring range). [/quote] http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/snitch740i/original/BMW_Wheel_Alignment_System%5B1%5D.pdf But I don't (yet) know how to convert 1 minute to inches. Does anyone want to take a stab at how to run that conversion? >> What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel >> camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup? > How to attach the device to the wheel/hub. It seems to me that a "jig" of some sort needs to be made so that there is a plane on the wheel that is (very precicely) parallel to the wheel to the same 0.01 inches that we need for accuracy. My initial idea is to take this concept to that 0.01 degree: http://i.cubeupload.com/6CPUl7.jpg Maybe bolt a flat steel plate to the wheel lugs (luckily, one of my cars uses lug bolts so I can just use longer bolts but my other car uses lug nuts which may make that flat plate bolting on more difficult). |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Dec 08 02:12PM -0600 On 12/8/2016 11:23 AM, John Harmon wrote: > Q: How do we compensate for typical errors (e.g., ride height, flat floor)? > What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel > camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup? I assume that is the wheel and not a hub cap. I'm guessing your looking for something between 0.5* and 2*, but I want to know. Someone said you need accuracy within .01 degrees, that's 1% of 1 degree. Good luck getting the 18 year old at the tire shop to do that. I'd be happy with 10%, being that it is an adjustable characteristic that can depend on how you want to drive the car, comfort or cornering. I don't have a clue about phone app accuracy, but you can check it. But hey, I've never done it, so don't read my response. Mikek |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 08 08:17PM amdx actually said: > I assume that is the wheel and not a hub cap. The car I will test this out first on is a bimmer with alloy wheels and lug bolts so both those traits make the task of bolting on a jig easier than if it were a steel wheel with lug nuts. > I'm guessing your looking for something between 0.5* and 2*, but I want > to know. I later found this BMW spec which shows that I need accuracy in 1 or 2 minutes ( http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg ) but how do I convert that 1 and 2 minutes to inches? > Someone said you need accuracy within .01 degrees, that's 1% of 1 > degree. I think he meant inches though. > Good luck getting the 18 year old at the tire shop to do that. > I'd be happy with 10%, being that it is an adjustable characteristic > that can depend on how you want to drive the car, comfort or cornering. I understand that the alignment shop guy might not care all that much to get as accurate as he can. Right now, I think the accuracy needs to be plus or minus one minute for toe and 2 minutes for camber. I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches. |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 08 08:37PM Tekkie? actually said: >> Measuring toe in is much more fun. > +1 at least According to this graphic, I need to repeatably measure toe to plus or minus 2 minutes of accuracy and camber to plus or minus 1 minute of accuracy: http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg Static camber will be measured in degrees, so the plus or minus 1 minute of accuracy is easy enough for me to understand. But sttic toe is usually measured in inches, so a problem is how do I convert the 2 minutes of accuracy to a plus or minus inch figure? |
| "Phil Kangas" <pkangas@upalphacomm.net>: Dec 08 03:56PM -0500 "John Harmon" > I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches. You can't. Minutes of angle are a function of a triangle. Inches are simply a scalar measurement of distance. |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Dec 08 02:58PM -0600 On 12/8/2016 2:12 PM, John Harmon wrote: >> against the tire away from the buldge > That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best > to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to? A jig, if you can't use the actual wheel. > Camber measuring accuracy ?1' in measuring range ?3? in total range ?10? > http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg > Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches? No, But 30 min is equal to 0.5 degrees. Mikek |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 08 09:13PM Phil Kangas actually said: > You can't. Minutes of angle are a function of a > triangle. > Inches are simply a scalar measurement of distance. That's bad news because both the toe and camber are specified in degrees but when I measure toe, it will be in inches. At least when I measure the camber it will be in degrees so I won't be switching units back and forth. I know how to physically measure toe in inches (e.g., with a string); but I don't (yet) know how to measure toe in degrees with a smart phone or digital level. |
| John Harmon <HarmonJohn@example.com>: Dec 08 09:13PM amdx actually said: >> That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best >> to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to? > A jig, if you can't use the actual wheel. I agree that, for our purposes, we should assume I jury rig a jig of some sort so that there is a flat completely perpendicular plate bolted onto the axle somehow (probably placed on the outside of the wheels using the lug bolts or lug nuts). >> Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches? > No, But 30 min is equal to 0.5 degrees. Right. And the 1 and 2 minutes are 1/60th and 1/30th of a degree respectively. But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches? |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Dec 08 03:18PM -0600 On 12/8/2016 2:17 PM, John Harmon wrote: > Right now, I think the accuracy needs to be plus or minus one minute for > toe and 2 minutes for camber. > I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches. Something wrong, 30 minutes is equal to 0.5 degrees. 1 minute is 0.0167 degrees, I don't think that's what you are after. You might play with a trig calculator. > http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-trigright.asp I put in a 1 degree angle for (angle a) and 16" for (side B) Then hit calculate to find (side a). This says you need 0.279" of tilt top to bottom on a 16" wheel. Note: this triangle is rotated 90* to your wheel. So take that into account when thinking about the calculation. Bottom line, for a 1 degree angle you need a tilt of 0.279" over 16". That's measurable, but you need a post 90* off the floor. Mikek |
| amdx <nojunk@knology.net>: Dec 08 03:19PM -0600 On 12/8/2016 3:13 PM, John Harmon wrote: > Right. And the 1 and 2 minutes are 1/60th and 1/30th of a degree > respectively. > But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches? That depends on the length. Mikek |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Dec 08 01:35PM -0800 On Thursday, December 8, 2016 at 3:12:14 PM UTC-5, John Harmon wrote: > makolber@yahoo.com actually said: > > 0.01deg ?? I don't think so... You are well-and-truly an idiot! The measuring device must be accurate to one one-hundredth of a degree, or two decimal places. The measurement itself will be far less sensitive than that, probably to a single degree, no more. But if I am staring (for instance) at 90 degrees and want to get to 89.75 degrees - hence the need for that level of accuracy. Azimuth on the typical smart-phone (how accurate is it a measuring off the vertical) is typically somewhere between 8 (at best) and 15 degrees - and that only if it has a screen-orientation function. Many do not. And many more have only a 90-degree function and only in one direction. Put another way, the phone is smart enough not to even attempt the process. The idiot owner who insists that it is possible - with the right app/software - deserves exactly what he gets. Minutes are a circular unit-of-measure. Not a linear unit. So, "inches" will be measured at some point on a diameter as compared to another point along that diameter using a fixed radius. If 'vertical' minutes, one endpoint of that radius will be the center of the earth. If other than vertical, the determining endpoint will be something hopefully more nearby such as the axle or some specified point. And the diameter on which the distance is measured will be specified. But, minutes do not convert to inches other than the chord defined by the starting point and the end point of the measured distance along the total arc. False premises lead to false conclusions. I am calling you an idiot as you seem congenitally unable to understand the most basic geometry - previously most basic physics - yet insist on some sort of false precision to draw others into your idiocy as an actual problem. It isn't. Otherwise, you are a simple (very simple) troll. Yeah, I am responding - in the same way that our grandkids enjoy Wack-A-Mole at the penny arcade. You will probably never go away, but well-turned invective can be enjoyable, even if against a helpless target. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org>: Dec 08 04:51PM -0600 On 12/8/2016 2:12 PM, John Harmon wrote: > Camber measuring accuracy ?1' in measuring range ?3? in total range ?10? > http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg > Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches? Sort of mixed units. For a circle with radius about 286.5 feet your circumference will be about 21,600 inches so each minute of arc will be one inch. I don't think that helps you here. -- Andrew Muzi <www.yellowjersey.org/> Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Dec 08 06:38PM -0500 On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 17:00:41 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon >Practical advice (helpful hints & suggestions) requested from those of you >who have successfully checked camber at home (to sufficient accuracy). The accuracy of the level application on my one phone is out bt over 7 degrees. That is a simple "level" app.. The "rigid" level application on my Blackberry PlayBook is very accurate - How you reference it to the wheel will be the biggest variable that can through your accuracy off. A trammel type setup made from a straight bar of metal (or "straight" hardwood) with 2 screws protruding to reach the edge of the rim, adjusted to be identical in protrusion, will transfer the wheel angle accurately to the "level". You can determine if the rim is true to the spindle by checking the level with the bar upright with the wheel turned 180 degrees to make sure the reading is the same with the wheel turned. >if you have actually measured your wheel camber with sufficient accuracy at >home, you almost certainly can add valuable pragmatic hints to this thread >(such that we'll all learn from your experience). WITH CARE you can check your camber to a reasonably high level of accuracy. To get the camber "normalized" you need to roll the car back and forth a few feet so the car "settles" on it's suspension. A professional setup uses a "slip plate" that allows the wheels to slide in and out with little resistance. Normal procedure is to bounce the car on the slip plates to "normalize" the suspension. >I am researching whether automotive alignment camber quick checks are yet >possible to a reasonable degree of accuracy using a free app on a common >mobile device (either iOS or Android, both of which I own). I've done it long pre-smart-phone using a simple bubble level to verify the alignment was "close enough" afterr an accident in central Africa severely damaged the front of my Peugeot. I've also done hundreds of alignments with "pro" equipment. |
| Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>: Dec 09 12:02AM > Right. And the 1 and 2 minutes are 1/60th and 1/30th of a degree > respectively. > But what is 1/60th of a degree in inches? For small angles sin(A) = A (provided A is in radians) and d times sin(A) (hence d times A) is the displacement at a distance d caused by an angle a. To convert to radians, multiply degrees by .0174532925199 (pi/180). For example, 2 minutes = 1/30 deg = .0005817764173 radians so 8 inches from the hub that corresponds to a displacement of 8 * .0005817764173 = .00465 inches or 4.65 thousandths of an inch (0.118 mm). I image that's hard to measure. The suggested accuracy of 0.01 degrees corresponds to a displacement of 3.5 micrometres at 8 inches. That's less the typical width of a human head hair. -- Ben. |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Dec 08 07:03PM -0500 On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:12:12 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon >http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/snitch740i/original/BMW_Wheel_Alignment_System%5B1%5D.pdf >The question then becomes how to translate 2 angular minutes into inch >measurements. Well, 2 angular minutes is 1/30 degree, 03 0.03 degrees. >On page 10 of that document it says the camber tolerance of another vehicle >model is ? 10' (plus or minus 10 minutes). >So what is 10 minutes in inches? It is .01 degrees >> Most roads have crown so the camber is not as critical as you might think. >Some cars compensate for that by specificying cross camber specs, but mine >are symmetric. And the caster has an offset instead. >> against the tire away from the buldge >That's excellent advice. Since the tire bulges, I wonder if it's best >to use the wheel lugs to mount a jig which is what we measure to? Like I said in an earlier post - make a "jig" - a kind of trammel device - that contacts the lip of the rim and transfers the measurement out to a straightedge that spans the rim fiving a flat surface parallel with the wheel centerline. Best to use this for toe adjustments as well. >Camber measuring accuracy ?1' in measuring range ?3? in total range ?10? >http://i.cubeupload.com/cfaDWp.jpg >Does anyone here know how to convert the 1 and 2 minutes to inches? minutes are 1/60th of a degree.. Converting that to inches requires offset and trig. The farther you can extend the "offset" the more accurate you can be. I use a laser level on the trammel jig to extend the line out about 10 feet from the spindle. Then do the calcs to find out how much toe-in you want at 10 feet for the angle specified. If the toe is specified in inches it is the difference between the front and back of the tire circumference. Again, some calculations will allow you to measure farther out for more accuracy. |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Dec 08 07:15PM -0500 On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:12:14 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon >http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/snitch740i/original/BMW_Wheel_Alignment_System%5B1%5D.pdf >But I don't (yet) know how to convert 1 minute to inches. >Does anyone want to take a stab at how to run that conversion? Pythagorus' theorem -, or better yet, trigonometry. Or a triangle calculator like http://www.cleavebooks.co.uk/scol/calrtri.htm Solve a triangle. You know (from your measurements) the base of the triangle (distance from spindle) and the height (difference between the projected line and "straight"), or the base and 2 angles (the desired angle and 90 degrees) to calculate the height. One way tells you what angle you have, the other gives you the distance measurement you WANT. >>> What other gotchas will we need to look at to successfully measure wheel >>> camber using a mobile device in a typical garage setup? Your biggest problem is getting your head around all the concepts. >same 0.01 inches that we need for accuracy. >My initial idea is to take this concept to that 0.01 degree: >http://i.cubeupload.com/6CPUl7.jpg On some vehicles it CAN be that simple -- On others it is definitely a wee bit more complex, but you have the idea. >Maybe bolt a flat steel plate to the wheel lugs (luckily, one of my cars >uses lug bolts so I can just use longer bolts but my other car uses lug >nuts which may make that flat plate bolting on more difficult). And the length of the studs/bolts gets critical - not to mention it works best with 4 or 6 studs - not so good on odd numbers like the common 5, or the less common 3 stud wheels. |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Dec 08 07:24PM -0500 On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 20:17:43 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon >Right now, I think the accuracy needs to be plus or minus one minute for >toe and 2 minutes for camber. >I just don't know how to convert minutes to inches. There is a saying about Bimmers. If you have to ask how much - for anything - you can't afford to drive a bimmer.. There are enough things that can go wrong in the front end of one of those kraut-wagons that I think you are definitely being penny wise and pound foolish trying to save $100 on the maintenance of a late model Bimmer. Don't be such a cheap-ass. - or drive a Chevy. You want to know if anything is worn or bent - and measuring CASTER is required as well to know. You really don't have your head around the concepts well enough to understand WHY an alignment check should be done properly. Your "quick check" is just that - and if you are at all in tune with your car as a driver you will know there is something wrong just as well by simply driving the car. If you are not "in tune with the car" the Bimmer is wasted on you --- (as it is on the vast majority of Bimmer owners) |
| clare@snyder.on.ca: Dec 08 07:30PM -0500 On Thu, 8 Dec 2016 21:13:31 -0000 (UTC), John Harmon >I know how to physically measure toe in inches (e.g., with a string); but I >don't (yet) know how to measure toe in degrees with a smart phone or >digital level. If you are going to measure the toe with a string, you may as well forget about it. You can NOT get enough accuracy or repeatability to determine if the toe is correct or not. Without pro equipment, to get that granular in your measurement you NEED to extend your measurements 5 or 10 feet and measure with a goor steel tape measure, or extend the displaced centerline accurately and measure with a steel rule. Using the simple tape measure will give you the total toe - which will be double the specified toe per wheel, and will not tell you if you are off-center. |
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