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Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 03 02:49PM -0800 On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 16:21:44 -0600, Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu> wrote:   >transmission and no torque converter. They use a wet-pack clutch like on a >motorcycle to do the initial start. So, it has all the advantages of a >stick shift, but my family can drive it, too.   Thanks. I'm told there's little difference between the gas mileage of a stick versus an automatic. For example, my current 2001 Subaru Forester is rated at 21 mpg with either transmission. <https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=17279&id=17278> Left column is manual transmission while the right column is automatic. My Acar Android program has about 8 years of mileage records and shows an average of 22.673 mpg over a distance of 47,215 miles and 2,000.50 gallons of the cheapest regular I can find. This is a 16 year old vehicle, which does not have the benefits of the technology you mention, yet still has identical rated gas mileage for manual and automatic. I suspect the reason lies elsewhere.   Even if the gas mileage was better for an automatic, I would still prefer driving a manual transmission. I don't feel like it's driving without the stick. There's probably some symbolism there, but I'll pretend not to notice.     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 03 03:15PM -0800 On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 13:26:28 -0500, Phil Hobbs >Takata airbag mess, so the dealer couldn't sell it for ages.) Got a >nice discount too--it wound up being the price of my daughter's Kia >econobox. :)   He must have been glad to get rid of it after five years depreciating in storage. Congratulations.   I once bought a new 1967 Mustang (after I trashed my mother's car). 200 cid engine, 3 speed manual transmission (of course), and zero options. It was truly an economy car. At the time, I was working part time at a local Ford dealer, so I got a good deal and was later able to economically deal with the inevitable broken parts. It was the worst car I had ever owned. All the weight was over the engine. If I tried hard, I could spin the wheels in any of the 3 speeds. Traction in snow or mud was non-existent. Because the rear end was so light, the leaf springs on the rear were not very stiff. When I loaded the trunk with about 250 lbs of Motorola 40V, 80D, and 160D radios, the rear end sank. The range of adjustment for the headlights was not enough to make the light beams level again. I could go on forever complaining about the Mustang. However, that was 1967 and presumably Ford has learned a few things in the intervening 50 years.   >Newer cars are full of surveillance devices, which I cordially dislike.   Yep. One of the casualties in the rush towards progress is the loss of privacy. I'm told that this is now the "information age" which makes little distinction between public and private information. The loss of privacy sucks, but is survivable. Think of it like the Japanese shoji paper curtains. There's little real privacy with those, but if everyone pretends not to notice what's happening on the other side, one can get the illusion of privacy. I think that's where we're heading. Every data collecting entity knows what's happening, but as long as they don't do anything with the data, you have the illusion of privacy. When those entities abuse your information is where the problems begin. I don't believe we can stop the collection of information, but we might have a chance stopping anyone from using what it collects.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

etpm@whidbey.com: Feb 03 03:42PM -0800 On Fri, 03 Feb 2017 14:49:36 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:   >prefer driving a manual transmission. I don't feel like it's driving >without the stick. There's probably some symbolism there, but I'll >pretend not to notice. I tend to drive my cars almost into the ground because I keep them so long. I gave my last car away when it had 280,000 miles on it and it still ran well so I guess it wasn't quite driven into the ground. I always bought sticks but my most recent car purchase, which will probably be my last, is an automatic. I chose automatic because they now, and for some time, have been more reliable than a clutch. They just plain require less maintenance and last longer. On top of that, it used to be you could bump start a car with a manual transmission and a low battery but modern fuel injection requires too much juice for a bump start with a low battery. So another advantage of the manual transmission goes away. Besides, I'm not a kid anymore and don't tend to let my battery go dead or run out of gas because I'm a little more responsible that I used to be. Eric

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Feb 03 06:50PM -0500 In article <g82a9ctqen77inns5arhr1q4b9kq5oj5mn@4ax.com>, jeffl@cruzio.com says... > what it collects.   > >Cheers > >Phil Hobbs   From things I have read it seems that some of the onboard computers are getting to be about like the 'black boxes' on airplanes. There was some talk of letting the police download the data in accidents to see what the speed of the car was and other things.

"tom" <tmiller11147@verizon.net>: Feb 03 08:49PM -0500 "Ralph Mowery" <rmowery28146@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:MPG.32fee140610671f998982b@news.east.earthlink.net... > getting to be about like the 'black boxes' on airplanes. There was some > talk of letting the police download the data in accidents to see what > the speed of the car was and other things.   It's been that way for at least the last ten years.

"Benderthe.evilrobot" <Benderthe.evilrobot@virginmedia.com>: Feb 03 10:28PM <oldschool@tubes.com> wrote in message news:1pv99cptj879dqmtmc9hhh5hg46aibs1hu@4ax.com... > safe, with the current state of the world and the current US president. > It seemed a lot safer before, even though the world in general seems a > lot worse than it was in the last few decades.   Trump is using executive orders for everything, that's basically ruling by decree - I don't know how that's any different to a dictatorship.

oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 03 04:38PM -0600 On Thu, 02 Feb 2017 18:36:08 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:   >>capacitors, (just arthritis). :)   >I'm 69 years old. My body mechanic says I have pump and inside >plumbing problems. Perhaps I should replace him with a plumber?   Definitely sounds like you need a plumber :)   >resulting the electrolyte leaking or evaporating. Temperature also >has a big effect. There are graphs on the capacitor data sheets that >approximate the lifetime characteristics.   OK   >For electrolytics, try polymer caps: ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymer_capacitor#Lifetime.2C_service_life> ><http://www.mouser.com/pdfdocs/Panasonic_Capacitors_WP_final.PDF>   So, what are the BEST ones? For example, I am getting a Hallicrafters sx-99 radio, to recap it, what should I use for the small caps (not electrolytics)? Should I use the "orange drops", or is there something better? I'd rather spend a few bucks more and get the best.   By the way, why are all the caps now rated at some oddball figure. For example, instead of .05, it's ,047? or instead of .003 it's .0033.   Same for the 'lytics instead of 30mf, they are 33mf and so on.....   >>I know the mica and ceramic caps are reliable and last almost forever.   >Not all ceramics are that reliable. MLCC (multi-layer ceramic caps) >are rather fragile and microphonic.   What do those look like? Are they the ones with colored dots that look like dominos? (But I think those are mica caps, if I'm not mistaken).   I remember those squarish brown ones with the leads on the bottom, those were supposed to be superior. (Silver mica, maybe?)   And the round ceramics were said to be good too. >>shorter life than the old ones did.   >Nope. The old ones filtered at 120 Hz. The new caps filter at 100 to >300 KHz. Internal dissipation follows frequency.   Can you explain that. I dont understand... (I would think that a 'lytic in a power supply would only need to filter at 120hz, or would some filter at 60hz also, depending on the configuration?   >the warranty period is deemed to be "over-designed". It is then >redesigned using lower rating or cost components so that everything >blows up at the same time. I've seen it happen.   I totally agree. You cant identify parts anymore and if you can, you cant get them. Especially ICs.   In the 60s and 70s, I loved to work on electronics. Mostly tube stuff. The early transistor stuff was not too bad, but as soon as they began using ICs, I lost interest in working on it.   Now, 40+ years later, I am gtting back into it, but only working on antique tube stuff, which is what i enjoy. Modern stuff is far too complicated, far too small (hard to see with my aging eyes too), and does nothing but frustrate me.   Sure, I have built every computer I have owned (or rebuilt from parts of thrown away ones). But with computers you just change boards, not individual components.   I guess going back to the tube stuff makes me feel young again!

Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net>: Feb 03 05:45PM -0500 > safe, with the current state of the world and the current US president. > It seemed a lot safer before, even though the world in general seems a > lot worse than it was in the last few decades.   It's a very complex issue. Your feelings are just that, yours.

Look165 <look165@numericable.fr>: Feb 03 11:51PM +0100 They call it "preventive maintainance".

oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 03 04:50PM -0600 On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 21:05:19 -0000, "Benderthe.evilrobot" >leaky.   >There are plenty of other types of dry capacitors that don't last forever in >the high temperature around tubes.   I have been reading alot of websites about caps. One of them said the wax coated ones were less leaky (for moisture), than the old plastic coated ones. I am referring to the ones called "black beauties", that have color code bands on them.Yet, back in the early 70's, I knew a guy who was a retired radio-tv repairman as well as a Ham operator, and he used to say those "black beauties" were far better than the wax ones. (as well as the other plastic encased ones with the numbers on them instead of the color bands).   That's conflicting info. Yet I know that all of them are paper caps.

oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 03 04:57PM -0600 On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 16:18:02 -0500, Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net> wrote:   >> new president singlehandedly advanced the Doomsday Clock by 30 seconds >> just last week. Heck of a job!   >Get off of it. You lost.   Lets NOT go there.....   In all honesty, I think WE ALL LOST. But we would have lost with either of the lousy candidates we had to pick from.   Enough politics..... Lets stick to electronics. A lot more fun, and likely a lot safer too.... I'd rather get zapped by a high voltage power supply than a president with his fingers on the nuclear botton.

oldschool@tubes.com: Feb 03 05:01PM -0600 On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 21:12:30 -0000, "Benderthe.evilrobot"   >This got worse with ever increasing PC monitor resolutions.   >AFAICR; mica caps were pretty reliable - in most of the places I found them, >they were used for precision and a specific tempco.   I could see them failing in the HV sections of ol CRT televisions and monitors. Alot of stuff seemed to fail at those high voltages.   But in radios and audio amps, they seem darn near fail proof....

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Feb 03 06:09PM -0500 In article <4a0a9cli8rpk4puapomqfkn7lpmhmhgq0i@4ax.com>, oldschool@tubes.com says... > thrown away ones). But with computers you just change boards, not > individual components.   > I guess going back to the tube stuff makes me feel young again!     Capacitors such as .047 have been around a long time. I don't know why it is such an odd value as I doubt the extra .003 would be noticable in the circuits most of them are used in. As the tollorance on most of the electrolytics are very broad I don't understand the odd values either.   The capacitors operating at 100 KHz and over are in the switching supplies that are most often used now. That puts a lot of strain on them that the old 60 Hz didn't.   I have started working on some of the surface mounted devices. It does take different equipment, but not hard to replace the bad components in most cases. You just have to invest in a stereo mcroscope for about $ 200 and a hot air rework station. For just the hobbiest there are some that have the hot air bun and soldering iron for less than $ 100. Tweezers instead of needle nose and very small solder and liquid flux. Lots of good info and how to on youtube.   I only started doing the SMD after I retired at 62.   I did put together my computers up to about 10 years ago. Then found I could get a used one off ebay for almost nothing that will do what I want. That is almost less than MS wants for some of the operating systems and the used ones have the operating system on them.

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 03 03:35PM -0800 >>maintenance was performed, the indicator would be replaced as it could >>not be reset.   > Something like a coulometer???   Sorta. The timer was basically a miniature electroplating bath, which used a the current flow to move ions of something, from one end of a glass cylinder to the other. A coulomb is 1 amp for 1 second and can count both electrons and ions, as in the bath. <http://www.electrolytics.org/faradaysLaw.html> I have a box buried somewhere with the project notes which might have the data sheet. Meanwhile, I think I may have found the patent, or rather a later patent as the one I used was in about 1976: <https://www.google.com/patents/US6198701> I'll dig through the citations later...     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Feb 03 03:53PM -0800 In article <MPG.32fed7a04e3c916a989829@news.east.earthlink.net>, >it is such an odd value as I doubt the extra .003 would be noticable in >the circuits most of them are used in. As the tollorance on most of the >electrolytics are very broad I don't understand the odd values either.   If you look at the standard values used for resistors and capacitors and inductors, you can see that they tend to be spaced in a way which creates something approximating a geometric ratio - that is, each value in the series is 1-point-something times the previous value. The higher-precision value "kit" has a total of 24 values over each decade. The common lower-precision value kit has six values (every fourth, from the 24-value higher-precision range).   The relationships aren't exact - 0.047 would be 0.046415... and some of the other "traditional" values are even further off of the geometric curve. But, that's the basics of it.   I imagine that when picking the values which would go in the lower-precision set, it was easier to just choose the same nominal values as were used in the higher-precision set, and specify a lower tolerance (e.g. +/- 10% for a cheap film cap, or +100/-20 for a 'lytic).

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 03 04:26PM -0800 >sx-99 radio, to recap it, what should I use for the small caps (not >electrolytics)? Should I use the "orange drops", or is there something >better? I'd rather spend a few bucks more and get the best.   I'll defer to the those from the antique radio forum, who have more experience with this than me.   I have helped various friends rebuild old HF radios. I tend to replace parts involving RF with parts that have the same temperature coefficient. So, mica caps get replaced with silver mica caps. Ceramics get replaced by ceramics of approximately the same value, voltage, and tempco. Film caps are potentially a problem, but I've seen few of those in old tube radios. Bumble bee, black beauty, and orange drop caps are junk. There's no temperature coefficient involved with those, so just whatever I can find that has similar values in polycarbonate or polypropylene. This should help: <http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/set/messages/7/75075.html>   >By the way, why are all the caps now rated at some oddball figure. >For example, instead of .05, it's ,047? or instead of .003 it's .0033.   Get out your calculator and estimate the acceptable range of values based on the tolerance. For example, a 0.047uF +/- 10% cap can vary between 0.042 and 0.052uF. Therefore, a 0.050uF is just fine. Actually, if you measure the caps involved with an LRC meter, you'll find that they vary well outside of the original specifications. Just because a capacitor is marked +/-10% doesn't mean that the circuit requires the same tolerance range.   >Same for the 'lytics instead of 30mf, they are 33mf and so on.....   Most cheapo electrolytics are +100% -20%. So for 30uF, anything between 60uF and 24uF should work. Again, electrolytics are not that critical (or very accurate). Occasionally, there will be an electrolytic in some kind of audio filter that has to be fairly accurate. You can use the schematic to find those. The rest (power supply, decoupling, interstage audio coupling, cathode bypass, etc), can be fairly loose with the tolerances.   >>are rather fragile and microphonic.   >What do those look like? Are they the ones with colored dots that look >like dominos? (But I think those are mica caps, if I'm not mistaken).   You won't find any MLCC caps in tube radios. You'll find them in computah equipment in the form of large SMT chip caps, sometimes with leads and dipped in epoxy: <https://www.google.com/search?q=mlcc+capacitor&tbm=isch> The caps are evil and fragile. They vary in capacitance with mechanical pressure and make a tolerable capacitance microphone. Touch one end, but not the other, with a soldering iron, and the temperature differential will cause internal cracking and eventually a short.   >I remember those squarish brown ones with the leads on the bottom, those >were supposed to be superior. (Silver mica, maybe?)   Silver mica. They're very good parts and rarely die unless you cram too much power through them as in a transmitter. <https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=silver+mica+capacitors> Watch out for the tempco on those. It's printed on the case as NPO, N750, N1500, Y5V, Y5P, etc.   >And the round ceramics were said to be good too.   Those are called "disc ceramic" capacitors: <https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=disc+ceramic+capacitor> Same warnings are silver mica.   >(I would think that a 'lytic in a power supply would only need to filter >at 120hz, or would some filter at 60hz also, depending on the >configuration?   Well, ok. I don't know of any tube radios that use switching power supplies, so yes, the highest frequency a tube radio power supply will see is 120 Hz. However, you comment was "for electrolytic caps, it seems that the newer ones have a much shorter life than the old ones did". By "newer one's", I assumed newer capacitors in newer circuits, namely switching power supplies. My guess(tm) is that newer capacitors will have the same long life as the originals (20+ years) when used as a replacement in a 120 Hz power supply.   >I guess going back to the tube stuff makes me feel young again!   Sigh. My collection of test equipment looks more like a museum than a working test bench. I also find myself fixing 40+ years old test equipment as I do fixing radios etc. Looking at the old stuff, all it does is make me feel old and tired.   Good luck.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 03 04:40PM -0800 >(as well as the other plastic encased ones with the numbers on them >instead of the color bands).   >That's conflicting info. Yet I know that all of them are paper caps.   Nope. The black beauty caps are di film dielectric, which is a sandwich of mylar and paper. I think they might have been injected with oil after assembly, but I'm not certain. You must have missed something in your youth as everyone I knew that was fixing TV's would break one open to see what was inside.   The preceding caps were bumble bee caps, which were oiled paper dielectric. The succeeding caps were orange drop caps which are metalized mylar dielectric.     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Feb 03 07:56PM -0500 In article <vnhfmd-hbg.ln1@coop.radagast.org>, dplatt@coop.radagast.org says... > values as were used in the higher-precision set, and specify a lower > tolerance (e.g. +/- 10% for a cheap film cap, or +100/-20 for a > 'lytic).     I had forgotten that the resistors were valued at some math function. Did not know the capacitors and inductors were the same, but seems reasonable. As pointed out, almost nothing in electronic components is exact for normal circuits.

Nick Danger <nick@third.eye.net>: Feb 03 08:47PM -0500 >>> by electricity which won't be available. Solar cells are also >>> semiconductors and the inverters used with them also use semiconductors. >>> So, if there is a WW3, don't count on ANYTHING electrical working.   On 2/3/2017 2:08 PM, Nick Danger wrote:   >> Seeing as you brought up WW3, for those of you that may not know it, a >> new president singlehandedly advanced the Doomsday Clock by 30 seconds >> just last week. Heck of a job!   On 2/3/2017 4:18 PM, Tom Biasi wrote:   > Get off of it. You lost.   Sorry that you totally missed the point. Losing has NOTHING to do with it. The current president would be just as great of a danger to the country and world if he were a Democrat. Creating an additional nuclear threat in today's unstable world was not the smartest thing to do.   You won -- but what did you win?   A vindictive, vengeful, thin-skinned, unstable*, erratic* person with his finger on the nuclear button. Sounds like a "win" to me.   NOT!   * BTW, these two words were used by the Wall Street Journal when describing the current president.

Carter <k8vt@ameritech.net>: Feb 03 08:47PM -0500 >> safe, with the current state of the world and the current US president. >> It seemed a lot safer before, even though the world in general seems a >> lot worse than it was in the last few decades.   On 2/3/2017 5:45 PM, Tom Biasi wrote:   > It's a very complex issue. Your feelings are just that, yours.   Sorry, personal, individual "feelings" has NOTHING to do with moving the Doomsday Clock ahead. The whole world might take exception, do ya think?

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu>: Feb 03 04:41PM -0600 Had two circuit breakers do something odd at home. One tripped, and I assumed somebody had a space heater and a hair dryer on at the same time or something. Then, a breaker for my computer room tripped when I turned on a laser printer. No unusual loads that I haven't done a hundred times before. I unplugged the laser printer, thinking it might have given up the ghost. When I reset the breaker, it was noticeably warm, which seemed odd, as it was not feeding a heavy load. The laser printer and everything else was just fine. It took a couple hours for the breaker to cool. I can't remember for sure if the breaker that tripped earlier had also been warm, but it might have.   So, anyway, it seems these breakers developed poor contact after just staying turned on for several years, and needed the contacts cycled to wipe them clean. I have some other breakers in the shop that are used as shutoffs for various machines, and they never do this, I guess because the contacts are exercised routinely.   Jon

Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Feb 03 06:11PM -0500 In article <8IOdnWLPLNJPmwjFnZ2dnUU7-LvNnZ2d@giganews.com>, jmelson@wustl.edu says... > shutoffs for various machines, and they never do this, I guess because the > contacts are exercised routinely.   > Jon   Can't help with the hot breakers.   Are the ones you are sing to cut off the machines designed to be used as breakers and switches ? Some are and some are not. Then may become weak and trip below he ratings if not over the years.

dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Feb 03 03:41PM -0800 In article <8IOdnWLPLNJPmwjFnZ2dnUU7-LvNnZ2d@giganews.com>, >just fine. >It took a couple hours for the breaker to cool. I can't remember for sure >if the breaker that tripped earlier had also been warm, but it might have.   Is this a plug-in breaker, or one that's wired in?   In either case, it seems possible that its connection to the wiring has deteriorated (oxidized, worked loose, etc.) and it might be heating up at that point. If your home has any aluminum wiring, I'd be _very_ concerned about this possibility.   I'd recommend a full re-check, with the mains power entirely disconnected.

Massoud <mass110@yahoo.com>: Feb 03 11:05PM etpm@whidbey.com wrote in > grinder. I'm concerned the long starting time might lead to > overheating the windings after many starts. > Eric   First concern should be loosing the torque, meaning slows down when loaded. They are AC cap and no polarities. Generally, oil filed can which if they don't leak, survive many many years.   The start spin also is related to inertia and load of the rotor, so if they are not exactly the same, don't expect the same time.   Mass

etpm@whidbey.com: Feb 03 03:29PM -0800 On Fri, 3 Feb 2017 23:05:58 +0000 (UTC), Massoud <mass110@yahoo.com> wrote:     >The start spin also is related to inertia and load of the rotor, so if >they are not exactly the same, don't expect the same time.   >Mass Greetings Massoud, Thanks for your replies. I decided to run some numbers. The moment of inertia of the 8 inch grinder wheels is approximately 3.16 times the moment for the 6 inch grinder wheels. The grinders with 8 inch wheels have twice the HP of 6 inch wheel grinder, but must accelerate 3 times the inertia. And they still accelerate more than twice as fast as the 6 inch machine. Hmmm. It seems to me that the smaller grinder is taking too long to spin up. Am I wrong? Did I goof the numbers? I do that kind of thing. Eric

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