sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Google Groups

Stijn De Jong <stijndekoning@nlnet.nl>: Feb 17 12:01AM On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 22:35:35 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:   > found. The app lists all towers found, and timestamps them. Apparently > only one is active, but somehow it displays how many are within range, > and in another window lists them.   Thanks for the suggestion of MyProfiles. There seems to be one from "Llab01 Inc." https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.fancy01.myprofiles.lite   It certainly asks for a *lot* of permissions upon installing (luckily, each one can be turned off individually) - Device & app history - Cellular data settings - Identity - Calendar - Contacts - Location - SMS - Phone - Photos/Media/Files - Wifi Connection information - Bluetooth connection information - Device ID & call information   But after using it for an hour, I can see that it's a powerful tool that can "do stuff" (I'm not sure what yet) depending on what towers it is near.   I'll play with it a bit more, because it seems overall like a powerful autoamtic doer of things. However, it's not a scanner, at least not only a scanner.

"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@invalid.es>: Feb 17 01:25AM +0100 On 2017-02-17 01:01, Stijn De Jong wrote:   > I'll play with it a bit more, because it seems overall like a powerful > autoamtic doer of things. However, it's not a scanner, at least not only a > scanner.   No, it certainly is not a scanner, but it uses scanning to do its own stuff. I think the phone tries to connect to each tower, till it finds the most appropriate one, and this tool records the activity to find the approximate location with the minimal battery usage.   I just meant it as a proof that scanning all towers is possible.   I use it to turn off automatically the WiFi when I get out of home, or when it detects the car bluetooth. Previously I also used it to temporarily disable Internet while sleeping, for 8 hours, say. Unfortunately this is no longer possible on Android 6, no permission to turn off the data network.   -- Cheers, Carlos E.R.

Stijn De Jong <stijndekoning@nlnet.nl>: Feb 17 12:58AM On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 14:14:49 -0800, Savageduck wrote:   > and signal data. I manages to do all I need of it. > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/Demo/File%20Feb%2016%2C%2014%2010%2045.png> > <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/opensignal-speed-test-3g-4g/id598298030?mt=8>   I think, as Jeff Liebermann noted, that the apps only query the phone to figure out what signal strengths and tower iD information the phone has.   So that seems to be why all the apps can only see one tower at a time, and, that one tower is only the tower of the current cellular provider.   If I popped in an AT&T SIM card, then I'd see the one AT&T tower I'm connected to. I don't know if a phone can connect to two towers at once though.   Can it?

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 16 08:18PM -0500 In article <o85hs3$8mc$3@gioia.aioe.org>, Stijn De Jong   > I don't know if a phone can connect to two towers at once > though.   > Can it?   it can and does.

Stijn De Jong <stijndekoning@nlnet.nl>: Feb 17 01:41AM On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 01:25:36 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:   > stuff. I think the phone tries to connect to each tower, till it finds > the most appropriate one, and this tool records the activity to find the > approximate location with the minimal battery usage.   I think you're right that the suggested app is a very nice app as it has been running for a few hours now, where the list of 8-digit and 14-digit "cell tower IDs" is growing, even though I have been in the same location all this time.   > I just meant it as a proof that scanning all towers is possible.   I thank you for bringing up that app, as it does seem to locate more towers than most of the other apps do.   The app that Jeff Liebermann suggested, Netmonitor, also seems to list a ton of cell towers by number.   So, those two apps seem to do "something" different than the rest of the apps seem to do, as the   > temporarily disable Internet while sleeping, for 8 hours, say. > Unfortunately this is no longer possible on Android 6, no permission to > turn off the data network.   I think the app is a decent app which seems to be focused toward "doing something" when it encounters a specific tower.   It's all new to me, so, it takes a while to correlate the 14-digit and 8-digit numbers it reports for cell towers to actual towers though.   The 14-digit numbers it reports seem to be composed of two components: a) The 5-digit LAC (local area code) b) The 9-digit CID (long cell id)   I'm not yet sure what the 8-digit numbers are since the short cell id is only 5 digits (at least the one I'm currently connected to is).

Stijn De Jong <stijndekoning@nlnet.nl>: Feb 17 02:01AM On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:18:06 -0500, nospam wrote:   >> though.   >> Can it?   > it can and does.   On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:18:06 -0500, nospam wrote:   >> though.   >> Can it?   > it can and does.   Thanks.   Figuring out what these apps report is a bit confusing for the apps that report more than one tower.   The bulk of the apps only report the one tower they're connected to at the moment. They report that tower with a variety of (supposedly unique) numbers.   For example, using Network Signal Info, at this moment, I have: 1. T-Mobile (both the net operator and the sim operator) 2. HSPA * 14.4 Mbps (sometimes it reports "EDGE * 220kbps") 3. -103dBm * 4ASU 4. 5-digit Cell ID, short 5. 9-digit Cell ID, long 6. 3-letter mobile network code 7. 3-letter mobile country code 8. WLAN IP address 9. WiFi IP address   Slowly I'm correlating that blizzard of numbers with the ones reported by the two apps that report multiple cell towers.   I think the only difference between the apps that report one number and the ones that list multiple numbers is logging.   Is there an easy way, with freeware, to self-video the screen?

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 16 09:09PM -0500 In article <o85li4$ijb$1@adenine.netfront.net>, Stijn De Jong   > Is there an easy way, with freeware, to self-video the screen?   use a gopro

The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>: Feb 16 07:06PM -0800 On 02/16/2017 02:14 PM, Savageduck wrote: > and signal data. I manages to do all I need of it. > <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/Demo/File%20Feb%2016%2C%2014%2010%2045.png> > <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/opensignal-speed-test-3g-4g/id598298030?mt=8>   I just installed it, but as soon as the opening black-text-on-white screen (I guess I need to give some sort of permission) appears it blinks out and the 'OpenSignal has stopped..." error message pops up.   I emailed the OpenSignal people, who want to know specifics...   I really want to know WHERE the cell towers are. T-Mobile has piss-poor coverage in out-of-the-way places and rather than driving around in circles I'd like to at least head toward a tower. Will this do what I want?   -- Cheers, Bev Self Test for Paranoia: You know you have it when you can't think of anything that's your own fault.

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 16 07:06PM -0800 On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 20:44:09 +0000 (UTC), Stijn De Jong >is how WiFi apps work).   >Why can't a cellular app work like a wifi app works (e.g., InSSIDer or >Fritz! Wlan, or WiFi Analyzer, etc.)?   Your smartphone is an SDR (software defined radio) that is capable of receiving all of the worlds cellular bands and sub-bands, and can demodulate most any flavor of cellular protocol. However, this is not a feature that the cellular providers find worthy of providing. Were they to do so, you would have the equivalent of a hand held spectrum and protocol analyzer. Such devices do exist, but not built onto a smartphone platform, which lacks the horsepower to do the job: <http://www.gl.com/protocol-analyzer-for-wireless-and-ip-networks.html>   So, you're stuck with only hearing what your smartphone is programmed to hear, which I think means your cellular providers mode (GSM,UMTS,CDMA, etc) and possibly filtered to limit reception to your cellular vendors SID and NID numbers. I gotta play with Netmonitor later to see if my Verizon phone will "see" Sprint sites. Verizon roams onto Sprint when desperate. Both are CDMA, but on different RF sub-bands. So far, I'm only seeing Verizon, but that might be because I'm in a lousy location.   Also, the reason you can see any wi-fi access point that is broadcasting its SSID, is that as newer and faster protocols are added, compatibility with hearing management packets from the older slower protocols is written into the spec so that the slower protocols won't collide with the faster protocols. However, that can be disabled with the Greenfield mode: <http://www.summitdata.com/blog/wi-fi-and-greenfield-mode-functionality/> where an AP can only hear other 802.11n AP's. There have also been some casualties among the slower protocols, such as where 802.11n requires that 802.11 and 802.11b speeds NOT be supported. However, since the broacasts are always sent at the slowest speeds for that protocol, a higher speed 802.11n AP can always hear if an 802.11 or 802.11b AP is present.   Bottom line. Wi-Fi downward compatiblity and scanning works because it was designed to work that way. Not so with cellular frequencies, modes, protocols, vendors, and instruments.     -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Feb 16 07:21PM -0800 On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:06:07 -0800, The Real Bev   >I really want to know WHERE the cell towers are. T-Mobile has piss-poor >coverage in out-of-the-way places and rather than driving around in >circles I'd like to at least head toward a tower. Will this do what I want?   I've been thinking of building (and selling) such a device. It can be done if: 1. You have an RF direction finder. 2. You know the sub-band where to expect the vendors transmissions. 3. You know the SID (system ID) of the vendor. 4. You have a map or database of the vendors service areas.   I used to design direction finders, so I have more than an average clue as to how this MIGHT be done. I'm not up to speed on cellular, but I think I can catch up. Basically, an SDR receiver that scans, looks for a signal direction, identifies it by RF sub-band and service area, draws a line on a map, and records the line. Drive around a little and soon you'll have many lines that cross at one point, which is the cell site. You won't get any ID numbers, but you can get those from any phone that can display the field service mode.   Marketing research: How much would pay for such a device?       -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Stijn De Jong <stijndekoning@nlnet.nl>: Feb 17 03:37AM On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:06:23 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:   > roams onto Sprint when desperate. Both are CDMA, but on different RF > sub-bands. So far, I'm only seeing Verizon, but that might be because > I'm in a lousy location.   Thanks Jeff for that detailed explanation of why I seem to only see the one tower's cell id that I'm currently connected to.   My problem set is that I installed two different types of local microtowers and I just wanted to know which ones I'm connected to, and at what strength.   I have both iOS and Android devices, so it doesn't matter to me which I use (the iOS devices have far larger screens, so they're preferable).   After running the various programs since last night, I can say that there are two ways, overall, to get a "survey" of local towers.   1. The real-time apps, such as Network Signal Info, will constantly change their cellid as they move from tower to tower, so, with screenshots, I can capture that information for later use. (The tower changes seem to happen more when I have lousy signal strength than when I have stronger signal strength.)   2. The logging apps, such as Netmonitor & MyProfiles, seem to log the various celltower IDs so that we can see a history over time of the cell towers we have connected to.   Since they only show towers as numbers, it's hard at the moment to correlate these logs to the two microtowers I have installed. So I'm going to have to run a few surveys, near home (with and without the microtowers powered up) and away from home (to remove from the logs the towers that aren't within 1,000 feet or so of the house).   Over time, I should be able to figure out what the unique cellid of the microtowers is (which may be a function of their MAC address or serial numbers for all I know).

Stijn De Jong <stijndekoning@nlnet.nl>: Feb 17 03:37AM On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:06:07 -0800, The Real Bev wrote:   > I really want to know WHERE the cell towers are. T-Mobile has piss-poor > coverage in out-of-the-way places and rather than driving around in > circles I'd like to at least head toward a tower. Will this do what I want?   Following up on what Jeff Liebermann had suggested, and depending on your operating system, the Network Signal Info app seems to show you what cellular tower you're connected to, which then can be found on the maps within the app.   There are two important tabs: 1. Mobile tab 2. Cell Location tab   Here's the "Mobile" tab original screenshot: http://i.cubeupload.com/2zK8Ys.jpg   And here's a screenshot of the "cell location" tab: http://i.cubeupload.com/uHE3lA.jpg   Given the unique tower cell id, you can also look up its location independently on the web, even down to the specific sector antenna that you're connected to.

Stijn De Jong <stijndekoning@nlnet.nl>: Feb 17 03:53AM On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 19:21:40 -0800, Jeff Liebermann wrote:   > is the cell site. You won't get any ID numbers, but you can get those > from any phone that can display the field service mode.   > Marketing research: How much would pay for such a device?   Jeff, As an aside, I know extremely well a long-ago retired entrepreneur who made a few dozen millions on Google stock who lives a couple homes away who often funds enterprising people.   He runs a successful company that makes, sources, and sells technooid things, so, he might be interested in funding you (for a cut, I would guess). He also runs a local entrepreneur group that meets weekly on the peninsula and he's always invited by Google to the Google fairs.   He's extremely technical, if a bit liberal in his politics, so he'll understand everything technically that you'll be doing. At the very worst, he'll give you suggestions for improvement.   If you're interested, just say so, and I'll drop you an email. Otherwise, just ignore.

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>: Feb 16 07:55PM -0800 >> the vicinity of my home out at Lake Nacimiento. It also provides usage >> and signal data. I manages to do all I need of it. >> <https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1295663/Demo/File%20Feb%2016%2C%2014%2010%2045.png> <https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/opensignal-speed-test-3g-4g/id598298030?mt=8>   I   > just installed it, but as soon as the opening black-text-on-white > screen (I guess I need to give some sort of permission) appears it > blinks out and the 'OpenSignal has stopped..." error message pops up.   I have not had any issues running OpenSignal.   > piss-poor coverage in out-of-the-way places and rather than driving > around in circles I'd like to at least head toward a tower. Will this > do what I want?   I can only tell you that while Verizon has good coverage with at least two towers where I live, T-Mobile is mediocre and shows no towers, and both AT&T and Sprint are poor to non-existant, also showing no local towers. This leads me to believe that T-Mobile, At&T, and Sprint are actually roaming in my location, using the Verizon towers. -- Regards,   Savageduck

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 16 10:58PM -0500 In article <2017021619553985684-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, > both AT&T and Sprint are poor to non-existant, also showing no local > towers. This leads me to believe that T-Mobile, At&T, and Sprint are > actually roaming in my location, using the Verizon towers.   sprint probably is, but att/tmo aren't.

Stijn De Jong <stijndekoning@nlnet.nl>: Feb 17 04:04AM On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 22:58:07 -0500, nospam wrote:   >> towers. This leads me to believe that T-Mobile, At&T, and Sprint are >> actually roaming in my location, using the Verizon towers.   > sprint probably is, but att/tmo aren't.   The Network Signal Info app has three fields that may indicate which carrier "owns" the network you are using: 1. Net operator (that has two fields currently T-Mobile / T-Mobile) 2. Sim operator (that has one field currently T-Mobile)   Here's a screenshot from the original post of those three fields: http://i.cubeupload.com/2zK8Ys.jpg   All three of those fields, currently, are showing T-Mobile on my phone, but, it might be that the net operator could show roaming by showing different carriers in the first two fields?   There is also a "Roaming" section at the bottom, where, in mine it says: Roaming: Roaming is OFF   It may be that, when you're roaming, you can see that roaming is on, and then you might see a net operator of something like: Verizon / Sprint Instead of Verizon / Verizon

Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com>: Feb 16 08:13PM -0800 >> towers. This leads me to believe that T-Mobile, At&T, and Sprint are >> actually roaming in my location, using the Verizon towers.   > sprint probably is, but att/tmo aren't.   AT&T coverage out here at Lake Nacimiento, West of Paso Robles, is mostly bad to non-existant. That was my reason to not having an iPhone until Verizon came onboard, and I seriously doubt that they are making any effort to solidly establish their presence here in any competitive way. T-Mobile does have much better rural coverage than AT&T, but nowhere as good as I get with Verizon. As to whether or not any of them are using Verizon towers for roaming, that is only conjecture on my part. -- Regards,   Savageduck

nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>: Feb 16 11:41PM -0500 In article <2017021620135464924-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>, > good as I get with Verizon. > As to whether or not any of them are using Verizon towers for roaming, > that is only conjecture on my part.   it's not conjecture on my part.   sprint/verizon have roaming agreements, as does att/t-mobile.   historically, sprint/verizon used cdma while att/tmo were gsm/hspa. the two air interfaces are not compatible, so they *can't* roam on each other's network.   now that all four carriers support lte, it's technically possible, except that each carrier uses their own set of lte bands and not all phone models have all of them (i can think of only 3-4 that do), so it's not a realistic option. if they did offer it, most people would not benefit.   roaming is usually just for voice/text, not data, however, it depends on the specific plan, and there may be additional fees in some cases.   tl;dr - coverage varies. choose the carrier who has coverage in the areas in which you travel and at a fair price. do not count on roaming. there is no single 'best' for everyone.

Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies>: Feb 17 06:31AM > This leads me to believe that T-Mobile, At&T, and Sprint are actually > roaming in my location, using the Verizon towers.   That is not possible.   -- I thank my lucky stars I'm not superstitious.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net>: Feb 16 10:58PM -0500 Michael Black wrote: >> for $15. They are .015", 63/37. Just keep your eyes open.   > The closest I got to that was finding a small roll of quite thick solder > at a garage sale, but it wsa branded "IBM", so an element of novelty to it.   I wasn't even looking for solder when I found it. Someone I know at 'Markets of Marion' sells used DVDs. The spools of solder were sitting on one of his tables, along with a genuine 'Camilus Electrician's knife'. I bought the solder, and he gave me the knife because the finish was bad. It took me 15 minutes to make it look right. :)     -- Never piss off an Engineer!   They don't get mad.   They don't get even.   They go for over unity! ;-)

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu>: Feb 16 05:54PM -0600 > was the original part number? Perhaps there are existing substitutions > available.   > Dan The part on the board was a Fairchild FMT1190. The part on the schematic was an A430, which I can't even find a datasheet for.   I patched in an MPSH10, which has a different pinout, but twisted the leads around to make it fit, and it seems to work well (so far). I'm kind of worried as 3 out of 3 transistors in the same location of the circuit have failed. This board was built about 1979, so the replacement might just outlive me. The complementary transistor in the differential common-emitter pair (same transistor type) are all fine. I've looked for an obvious circuit goof, and can't really find anything.   Jon

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu>: Feb 16 06:05PM -0600 Dave Platt wrote:       > Maybe a short inverse spike condition during powerup, which > reverse-biases the base and makes it avalanche?   Analyzing the bias supply for the base, I can't really SEE how it could get a reverse voltage spike. I certainly thought about this on power-up. OHHH, wait! Maybe it could be on power DOWN! There is a bias network on the base with a capacitor to ground, and the supply to the emitters is connected to a reference supply that might dump VERY quickly when power is cut off. That could maybe put about -6 V bias on the base when the emitter supply drains back toward zero. I could probably stick a diode there to limit the reverse bias.   > Or, is there any chance that when the one-shot fires, the transitions > are slow enough that the transistor passes outside of its SOA while > turning on or off? Well, maybe. But, it is only 23 mA, and differential pairs are usually pretty benign when they transition. We just got this module out of a pile of stuff, it is the only one we have, and we have no history on it. It might have sat in some setup for 30 years powered on. Or, it might have experienced some kind of transient failure of the power supply that powered it in the past. This one-shot can't go over 100 ns, and the transition should be REALLY sharp, just a couple of ns.   So, the only way to know if it will be reliable is to test it a bit.   Thanks,   Jon

dansabrservices@yahoo.com: Feb 16 04:47PM -0800 An A430 crosses to an NTE 161 which is a UHF-VHF amp. Since the FMT1190 is an RF-IF AMP, this should work as well. I know that these are available (NTE160).   While I am not a fan of NTE devices, they will work in a pinch. Give this a try.   If you can't find one, let me know. I have some in stock.   Dan

dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Feb 16 05:30PM -0800 In article <GdOdnWKz-pOsozvFnZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@giganews.com>, >cut off. That could maybe put about -6 V bias on the base when the emitter >supply drains back toward zero. I could probably stick a diode there to >limit the reverse bias.   Probably a good idea, and (assuming that the diode's capacitance when biased-off isn't a problem) it should be good cheap protection.   Thinking about it... I wonder whether those poor old transistors might not just have been Plumb Tuckered Out? A friend of mine has told stories about the early generations of Fairchild transistors - the mushroom-shaped ones with a plastic case - and said that a lot of them he'd dealt with had failed over the years as a result of problems with the encapsulations. Apparently the plastic didn't seal to the leads very well, allowed oxygen to infiltrate, and the internal wire-bonds or metallization would oxidize and fail over time.   Possibly this is something which might have affected those old parts of yours, with the (modest) amount of heat in the "on at idle" transistors having the effect of accelerating the aging process.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Feb 16 04:39PM -0800 >">I do question everything. (...)   No problem as long as you don't question my advice. "   Yeah.   >"The default IP is 192.168.1.254. Point your browser at this IP address and see what you find on the status and diagnostics pages. "   Did it months ago when this was an ongoing problem. Everything was fine. It said anyway...   Then later there was a real outage and I somehow screwed something up royal because then it took my sister over half an hour on the phone to get it back up. tha tis when the network cable to the Man cave failed and I saw the MODEM was turned upside down. Looking it the really poor condition of the wires going into the RJ45 connectors and knowing the cable has beeen throgugh hell led me to believe it has an open wire. That plus the Man cave PC says "A network cable is unplugged". Amd I ean that cable really has been through hell. tomorrow I find out if they recrimped it for me. If not I might jjust walk out of work and tell them I am going to Walmart to get one or some shit. I no longe put up wioth lip service from employers. In fact even when I was a teenager the boss once said "You act like you are doing us a favor coming in here" to which I replied "Isn't that why you pay me ?", and since then I have only grown bigger. And badder, and more sharp. Actually, iot is almost time to contact my old employer, after a year when he pissed me off, see if maybe they could use some of my time. these people were a trip, nice I guess, mostly, but dumb. Bring me an effects box that is clearly meant to work in an effects loop of a mixer r amp and trying to use it straight off the guitar, and the complaint ? "Noise and clicks when changing modes".   Usenet is different, but out here in the real world I have very little respect for anyone. Out here I have only met one tech I could really havee a discussion with.   >"I just checked out Google Groups on my DSL line using Firefox. It seems to be going VERY slow. I click on s.e.d. to list the available messages and it's taking 2 minutes to load a page. Some of the obscure groups never seem to load."   My problem doesn't seem to be speed, but that error. But then I have probably a doifferent OS, Vista here, you probably have 10. But I am actually on IE8 right now and it does bitch, but then it works. My FF is a very old version, below 20. What I have heard is tht 23 is about the best version to have but I was having trouble finding it. Even the places that have older versions said here is the file but then when I went ot install it it says "Veersion 45" or whatever it is in. I want 23, no higher from things I have heard. Plus the fact alll I see in newer versions of software are features remove that I used to use.   But then sometimes FF works jusrt fine. I'll have those numbers soon. should I close al browsers and start fresh or will this work OK with my usual half dozen or more tabs open, and now two browsers because of this horseshit ?   >"Like I said, I don't want to go into a public troubleshooting exercise on this, at least not now. Bizzzeeee. "   Fine. So far so good, you gave me some pointers and now I have to use them. I'll get back to you, that is if I can of course.

You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this group. You can change your settings on the group membership page. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an email to sci.electronics.repair+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.