- Decimal Time - 12 Updates
- Convert a 45 RPM record to Metric - 12 Updates
| rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Sep 01 01:57PM -0400 Tom Biasi wrote on 9/1/2017 12:03 PM: > the United States Metric Board (USMB) in 1975. > I don't see why you needed to bring in the President, I don't wish a > political discussion. I have no idea what you are talking about. Where did I mention the President? -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
| Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net>: Sep 01 02:18PM -0400 On 9/1/2017 1:57 PM, rickman wrote: Here: |
| Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>: Sep 01 10:06PM +0200 >We presently have a large number of convenient time increments >which would not be so convenient in the new system. The human animal has a very strong preference to continue to do what it is used to. It probably has a psychological name and also an evolutionary significance. In some cases, it may be a good thing, but in other cases, it hampers our progress tremendously. Your post demonstrates this perfectly. You are trying to invent something new, but you keep getting stuck in your old ways, the ways that you are so used to. Here in Norway, we used to read numbers between 20 and 100 with the tens before the ones, like the Danes and Germans still do. So, 24 would read as "four and twenty". 23,795 would read as "three and twenty thousand seven hundred and five and ninety". Imagine the number of mistakes that were made when trying to write down a number that someone spoke. As the phone system made its introduction, the need to write down long numbers increased, so the problem became more apparent. In 1951, the government decided that we would end the insanity and convert to the system that the Swedes and English use, where the digits are read in the same order they are written. Since then, the school children have been thought the new system, and the state broadcaster has used the new system exclusively (except quite a few slip-ups, of course). There is a clear trend, where the old method is more prevalent among older people. Even still, people who were born twenty years after the change was officially made, still often use the old way today. As you can see, changes take huge amounts of time. Even a small, simple change like that, after more than 60 years, we are probably not even half way there. One morning in the early fifties, a military officer spoke to his battalion: "As of today, we no longer say four and twenty, but two and forty". He was simply so set in his ways that he was unable to break free of them, even when he tried. As I mentioned in another post, we keep the second, the day and the year. Hours, minutes weeks, months all get thrown away. We may need to introduce a couple of new units, but that will work itself out automatically. -- RoRo |
| Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>: Sep 01 10:12PM +0200 On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:28:49 +0200, Look165 <look165@numericable.fr> wrote: >The animal bodies are regulated by the 24h system. No animal has any concept of what an hour is. If we humans decide to divide the day into 173 in stead of 24, the animals wouldn't even notice any difference. Of course, the cows expect to be milked at the same time every day, but they don't care if the farmer calls it 6 o'clock or 32.4 o'didly. -- RoRo |
| Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Sep 01 11:08PM +0100 In article <4ffjqc95c83i9np8982hqpff89cruj20v3@4ax.com>, fake@ddress.no says... > Of course, the cows expect to be milked at the same time every day, > but they don't care if the farmer calls it 6 o'clock or 32.4 o'didly. And probably on solar time, too. Except that cows get used to the drift if the farmer insists on using clock time... Mike. |
| rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Sep 02 12:59AM -0400 Tom Biasi wrote on 9/1/2017 2:18 PM: > Here: >> I will rephrase my statement. The resistance to metric was less than the >> resistance we have to our current President. Lol! Discussion ended and I didn't even have to mention Nazis. ;) -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
| rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Sep 02 01:03AM -0400 Robert Roland wrote on 9/1/2017 4:06 PM: > year. Hours, minutes weeks, months all get thrown away. We may need to > introduce a couple of new units, but that will work itself out > automatically. You still haven't explained how any of this will be better than what we have now. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
| Look165 <look165@numericable.fr>: Sep 02 09:42AM +0200 The sun comes back nearly every 24h ! Animals , like us, live based on circadian rythm. rickman a écrit : |
| Look165 <look165@numericable.fr>: Sep 02 10:05AM +0200 Have you been thinking of the induced cost (around 1000 billion $) Who would pay ? And practically : Clocks and watches replacement (What about Big Ben and others ? ) Reprogramming BIOS or human time clocking on PC. TV and radio station should fix up the problem. Redefine a reference second. Enterprises should have to update their payment bulletin. Redefine geographic meridians And what about the travels (planes, boats... ? ). ... rickman a écrit : |
| Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Sep 02 12:09PM +0100 In article <oodonq$m0c$1@gioia.aioe.org>, look165@numericable.fr says... > Clocks and watches replacement (What about Big Ben and others ? ) Big Ben would be a deferred problem: it has just been stopped for 4 years for maintenance! Mike. |
| Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net>: Sep 02 10:15PM +1000 On 01/09/17 22:55, Tim R wrote: > During the time of the pyramids and pharaohs, the Egyptian calendar had 5 days "out of time" at the beginning of the year, then 12 months of 30 days each. > That still makes more sense than what we do now. 5 day week, 7 week month, ten months in the year, a week and a day (two on leap years) for New Year. 11% more free time, assuming we still have a 2 day weekend. Or more, if the robots are doing all the work anyhow. Boom! |
| rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Sep 02 12:14PM -0400 Look165 wrote on 9/2/2017 3:42 AM: >> definition of the second in the same way to a different number of >> vibrations of the cesium atom. >> Has anyone pointed out that top posting is hard to reply to? So what does that have to do with hours, minutes and seconds??? You do know there are 24 hours in a day, right? Changing the length of the hour won't change the length of the day. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
| Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>: Sep 01 08:08PM +0200 On Fri, 1 Sep 2017 06:28:09 +1000, Trevor Wilson >> The metric part of the world also measures time in oddball units. >**Huh? You mean 'seconds'? Oddball? Yes, the second is totally weird. Its original definition is one 86,400th of a day. Who in their right mind would divide something into 86,400 parts? There are two basic units of time; the day and the year. Those are astronomically defined. We pick one of those as the base unit. This can be split into thousandths or millionths or whatever is practical for the application. What we today know as a second is simply 11.6 microdays, or 31.7 nanoyears. I sleep about 300 millidays each night. As you suggest, the second is so ingrained in everything that there is no realistic way to get rid of it. But at least, let's abolish the minute and the hour. Introduce a new unit that is 100 seconds. Let's call it a "dol". There are 864 dols in one day. I go to work around 250 dols, but today I was almost 20 dols late. >> think we are stuck with it. Switching to a new system would be >> essentially insurmountable. >**RPM? The 24 and 60 fractions. Don't get me started on the way we divide the year. -- RoRo |
| Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>: Sep 01 08:51PM +0200 >Six foot skis are very convenient, but 180 cm are not >so much. Why do you think that is? Because that's what you are USED TO, of course. If you told me you skis are "six foot" long, I would have no clue if they were too long or too short for me. If you told me they are "one eighty", I'd know right away. If you told me they are 1800 mm long, I'd still know right away. If I told you they are 72 inches, you'd have to think about it for a second. It is more convenient to move a decimal separator than to divide by 12. >Another example, PCB traces are still measured in thousandths of >an inch even when working with metric sized boards because the numbers are >much more convenient, i.e. 6/6 vs. 0.1524 mm. You've got it all backwards. I would make that trace 0.15 mm, which is much more convenient than 5.90551181 thousandths of an inch. Obviously, the inch is more convenient when you choose an example that is a nice, round fraction of an inch. Your example uses a unit that is ONE THOUSANDTH of an inch. You can't do that. The thousand (and the hundred and the ten) belongs to the metric system. The imperial system uses halves, quarters, eighths and so on. Your trace is roughly 3/512 of an inch if you were to stick to your system. -- RoRo |
| rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Sep 01 03:07PM -0400 Robert Roland wrote on 9/1/2017 2:51 PM: > course. If you told me you skis are "six foot" long, I would have no > clue if they were too long or too short for me. If you told me they > are "one eighty", I'd know right away. I'm not talking about the familiarity of the units, I'm talking about the convenience. Just like the Brits still use stones for weight because they don't need the precision of knowing they are 224 pounds, but 16 stone is very handy. > told you they are 72 inches, you'd have to think about it for a > second. It is more convenient to move a decimal separator than to > divide by 12. Now you are getting close. I buy stuff on ebay and it is not uncommon to see dimensions of 4 digits in mm when it would be more convenient in dm or even just meters, but easily more convenient in feet or inches. mm are far more precise than needed for most measurements and awkward to scribe on rulers since the lines need to be so thin they are hard to see. I expect tape measures are graduated in 2 mm divisions. If they aren't, they should be. > much more convenient than 5.90551181 thousandths of an inch. > Obviously, the inch is more convenient when you choose an example that > is a nice, round fraction of an inch. I would love for all PCB measurements to be metric since the parts on the board are all metric. But I don't write the software and I don't design the web interfaces that 90% use mils and not metric. Now that trace/space measurements are getting to be fractions of mils, we may see that change, but small unit numbers are always more convenient than fractions or large numbers. That's why we have wire gauge, etc. > metric system. The imperial system uses halves, quarters, eighths and > so on. Your trace is roughly 3/512 of an inch if you were to stick to > your system. Ok, I'll inform the world. World! Consider yourself on notice!!! No more use of mils or micro-inches! -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
| rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Sep 01 03:23PM -0400 Robert Roland wrote on 9/1/2017 2:08 PM: > minute and the hour. Introduce a new unit that is 100 seconds. Let's > call it a "dol". There are 864 dols in one day. I go to work around > 250 dols, but today I was almost 20 dols late. To what advantage exactly??? >> **RPM? > The 24 and 60 fractions. > Don't get me started on the way we divide the year. Don't worry, we won't. -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Sep 01 12:58PM -0700 Guys and gals, Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens. Personally, I spend some years in a metric country and learned in short order how to shift my thought process, as well as to read (modern) Arabic numbers. And, "thinking about it", should it avoid a Mars-type screw-up is, perhaps, not a bad thing. Any unit may be sufficiently divided to achieve necessary precision. I also spent a number of years working as a machinist for a company that made the liquid sodium pump seals for French breeder reactors. And the same machinist would make SAE parts on the same machine as he would make Metric parts - using the same measuring sticks, keeping all the while in his head how they divided and compared. That is what those guys did, and did it exceedingly well. Me, I was mostly QC - and signing off (literally acid-etching my name on a part or assembly) on their work. Yes, we did think of dimensions and measurements. Every day. And we lost no sleep whatsoever on which was 'better'. As long as the parts fit. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Sep 01 11:12PM +0100 In article <f276d223-93b1-443d-9c23-9e14dd90f895@googlegroups.com>, pfjw@aol.com says... > Guys and gals, Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens. I thought that was a USA mission. (Assuming by "corresponding units" you really mean _not_ corresponding units!) Which mission was it? Mike. |
| Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Sep 01 11:17PM +0100 In article <oocbrv$jhc$1@dont-email.me>, gnuarm@gmail.com says... > There are two basic units of time; the day and the year. Those are > astronomically defined. ... Except IIRC the "day" is ambiguous astronomically is you don't distinguish solar day (in usual parlance, e.g. between the sun being due south) and stellar with the stars returning to their same positions overhead. These two have to have a difference that adds up to a whole day over the course of the year. Mike. |
| Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>: Sep 02 12:33AM +0100 Mike Coon wrote: > pfjw@aol.com says... >> Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens. > I thought that was a USA mission. Which mission was it? <https://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/> |
| rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Sep 01 10:06PM -0400 > Guys and gals, Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens. Lol! How many millions went up in smoke? -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
| rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com>: Sep 01 10:09PM -0400 Mike Coon wrote on 9/1/2017 6:17 PM: > south) and stellar with the stars returning to their same positions > overhead. These two have to have a difference that adds up to a whole > day over the course of the year. Is that a solar year or a sidereal year? ;) -- Rick C Viewed the eclipse at Wintercrest Farms, on the centerline of totality since 1998 |
| Mike Coon <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com>: Sep 02 08:52AM +0100 In article <f0u91oFdchfU1@mid.individual.net>, usenet@andyburns.uk says... > >> Europe lost a Mars mission due to a lack of corresponding units. It happens. > > I thought that was a USA mission. Which mission was it? > <https://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/> Thanks for that: it is described as "NASA?s Mars Climate Orbiter" which sounds like a USA mission to me! Mike. |
| Adrian Caspersz <email@here.invalid>: Sep 02 09:10AM +0100 On 31/08/17 20:55, Mark Storkamp wrote: > The French for a time tried decimal time where there were 10 hours in a > day and 100 minutes in an hour. So in decimal minutes, or dm, it would be > 64.8 rpdm or 6.48 drpdm. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time -- Adrian C |
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