- World's Worst Soldering! - 25 Updates
| Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz>: Oct 08 02:13AM > https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted- > public/ Eek! I'd like to see some insulator other than air between the AC nodes of that bridge rectifier, it doesn't look like the gap is very much at all. -- Notsodium is mined on the banks of denial. |
| John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>: Oct 07 07:34PM -0700 >left the mfgr, I took this photo immediately after opening the enclosure >and pulling the PCB (it had stopped working! can you believe it) ><https://www.dropbox.com/s/65km6pbq8wzch54/IMG_20171005_104357775.jpg?dl=0> This is pretty bad. The box doesn't work. https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0 -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics |
| Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Oct 07 07:44PM -0700 On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 20:06:40 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom >> by too low power or too fine a tip. 75 watt seems about right. >I have 15W, 25W, 40W and 80W irons. This atrocity was carried out with >the 15W one which has a pointed tip for some reason. There's your problem. 15 watts is far too small for the heavy gauge wire you're using. The pointed tip is too small to retain enough heat to solder some of the larger parts in your photos. You also didn't bother to disclose whether you're using a temperature controlled soldering iron or a crappy wood burner. I'll guess(tm) a wood burner, probably with unplated rusted iron tips that can't be cleaned, wetted, or tinned. If my guess(tm) is correct, you don't have a prayer making a decent solder connection even with a keen hand and a steady eye. The trick to soldering is to use decent equipment, a clean tinned tip, and the correct temperature. Use a hot tip set to the temperature for the type of solder you're using. Get the work hot quickly, solder quickly, and remove the iron as soon as possible. If you use a stone cold 15 watt iron, you'll end up lingering on the joint for far too long, which will dramatically increase the size of the heat affected zone, which will likely burn the PCB, vaporize the flux before it's needed, and possibly run some parts. By fast, I mean something like 1 second or less. >You're very kind in attributing this train wreck of a repair to my having >the wrong tools, Jeff. Sadly I don't believe it's the case. This kind of >work requires a steady hand and a keen eye and I possess neither. A friend of mine lived long enough to get Parkinsons Disease. Near the end, his hands shook bad enough that soldering was impossible. However, before that, they were steady enough to hold the iron, but not the work (wire and components). So, he build a fixture with an articulated battery terminal clamp to hold the joint together while he soldered it. For the soldering iron, he build something similar that only required that he leaned on the iron to push it into the connection. The process wasn't graceful, but it worked. If you have vision problems, get a proper magnifier or microscope. My eyesight is becoming bad enough that I need to use a microscope for SMD work, and a magnifier for ordinary work. Good lighting also helps. My soldering would look as bad as yours if I didn't have these aids. If you're not sure that decent soldering equipment will improve your miserable soldering, then borrow someone's decent equipment and try it for a day or three. If it's hopeless, look into the possibilities of using a soldering robot: <https://www.google.com/search?q=soldering+robot&tbm=isch> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BJMnk7maUVs> (1:33) >5500uF, 30VDC and 85C. I couldn't get the right capacitance within the >space available so used 33's in parallel. The old 85C's lasted for >decades so your 6 month assessment may be a bit pessimistic. I had problems finding can type electrolytics so I used axial leaded electrolytics as a substitute. They fit inside the old can, so I just ripped out the guts from the defective capacitor and crammed the axial caps inside. I used 85C caps which lasted about 6 months. I replace them with 105C caps and they've been running for about 2 years. >> 4. Clean the enamel off the wires with sandpaper before you solder. >> Tin the wire ends before attaching to a lug or PCB rivet. >Yes, I did do that. I know what I *should* do but it doesn't help. If you know it's not going to work, why bother doing it? You're not going to get a decent solder connection if it's covered with melted or burnt insulation, no matter how nice your tools or technique. A decent solder connection requires that ALL the parts of the puzzle are clean before you apply heat and solder. Do it. >> time to get one because they often include an adjustable temperature >> controlled soldering iron. >Can you imagine the carnage I'd leave behind attempting SMD stuff?? :-D It takes a bit of practice, but once you understand how it works, it's quite easy. Soldering SMD devices with solder paste is easy because the part self-aligns itself on the pads once the solder melts. There are plenty of videos on YouTube showing various ways to use a hot air SMT desoldering station. Instead of declaring defeat and surrendering before you start, watch a few and decide if you can handle it. -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
| bitrex <user@example.net>: Oct 07 10:58PM -0400 On 10/07/2018 10:34 PM, John Larkin wrote: >> <https://www.dropbox.com/s/65km6pbq8wzch54/IMG_20171005_104357775.jpg?dl=0> > This is pretty bad. The box doesn't work. > https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0 Haha, I actually saw a small pile of those on the shelf at the local (well, only) brick and mortar components retailer in the Boston area, on sale for $8 each in kit form. I think I'll pick one up next time I don't think I've ever owned a capacitor substitution box before, or really needed one (it's easy to substitute capacitors in Spice) but might come in handy someday, and I mostly trust my own soldering. Maybe I'll splurge on some better quality through-hole caps for it than those ceramic disk....things |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 07 08:02PM -0700 > 60/40 is for plumbing. ** You are thinking of " 40/ 60 " solder that is used by plumbers. 60/40 is ( or was) standard electronics solder. > the electronics industry settled on and proved to be the best 63/37 and > for decades it was. > This RoHS shit is the worst thing the world ever did. ** Hate the stuff !!!! To rework a PCB you HAVE to clean ALL of it off before applying 60/460 or 63/37. .... Phil |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Oct 07 11:30PM -0400 In article <19flrd597vqu0is1kvbkgh94lu7r85479a@4ax.com>, jeffl@cruzio.com says... > are plenty of videos on YouTube showing various ways to use a hot air > SMT desoldering station. Instead of declaring defeat and surrendering > before you start, watch a few and decide if you can handle it. I have been building kits and repairing electronics for about 50 years and stayed away from the SMD up to about 3 years ago when I was about 65. I looked at Youtube and with a few simple items it seemed very easy. I bought an inexpensive hot air rework station for about $ 70 at the time and the best thing was an Amscope $ 200 10 power microcsope. After playing around with it for a while on old junk computer boards I started on the 'good stuff'. That microscope was the best piece of shop equipment that I have bought in many years. I seem to use it all the time now. |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Oct 07 11:36PM -0400 In article <ppea6l$ipf$1@gioia.aioe.org>, DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org says... > The electronics industry settled on and proved to be the best 63/37 and > for decades it was. This RoHS shit is the worst thing the world ever did. > Metallic form lead is not dangerous to the environment. The standard is for the tin content to be first and then the lead. The 60/40 is most common for electronic solder, but 63/37 is slightly better. The plumbing is often 50/50, or was before the RoHS and lead free stuff started. I do agree the solders other than the tin/lead is very bad and hard to work with. As I just do it for a hobby and in the US, anything I do is with the tin/lead. If the area of a board I am working on has the RoHS type solder on it, I remove it from the part I am working on. It is going to be interisting to see if the devices have the 'tin whisker' problem that high tin no lead content solder can have in a few years. |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Oct 07 11:39PM -0400 In article <cda34813-55f1-4d14-9417-ef06dcd0b423@googlegroups.com>, pallison49@gmail.com says... > ** Hate the stuff !!!! > To rework a PCB you HAVE to clean ALL of it off before applying 60/460 or 63/37. Sometimes it helps to put some tin/lead solder on the parts you are trying to remove and then get rid of all the old RoHS type solder. |
| John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>: Oct 07 08:59PM -0700 >substitute capacitors in Spice) but might come in handy someday, and I >mostly trust my own soldering. Maybe I'll splurge on some better quality >through-hole caps for it than those ceramic disk....things I also have their resistance box, which is very good! I tossed the cap box. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics |
| John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>: Oct 07 09:26PM -0700 On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 20:06:40 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom >You're very kind in attributing this train wreck of a repair to my having >the wrong tools, Jeff. Sadly I don't believe it's the case. This kind of >work requires a steady hand and a keen eye and I possess neither. I have terrible eyesight, so I got a used Mantis microscope thing. https://www.dropbox.com/s/fp88o2rqgr87g9d/Mantis2.JPG?raw=1 I steady my hand on a table or something when I solder, especially super fine pitch surface-mount parts. The Metcal iron really, really helps. You're fine, you're just using cruddy tools. For really small surface mount stuff, I use a big wedge tip and slop solder on all the pins, shorting everything, then wick it. A q-tip and acetone cleans things up pretty. >> time to get one because they often include an adjustable temperature >> controlled soldering iron. >Can you imagine the carnage I'd leave behind attempting SMD stuff?? :-D I was afraid of 1206 parts when they first arrived. Now a US8 creates only mild anxiety. 0805's look gigantic. Desoldering is trickier than soldering surface mount parts. The part is a goner, but you don't want to damage the board. My production people are brilliant, so I let them do the hard ones. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics |
| The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com>: Oct 07 10:33PM -0700 On 10/07/2018 09:08 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote: > https://www.flickr.com/photos/128859641@N02/44247281105/in/dateposted- > public/ > As you can see, the "world's worst" tag was no exaggeration! Not even close. I hold that honor. Long ago I soldered a 25-pin RS232 cable. The blobs were so big I couldn't get the housings on. I didn't think any of the pins were shorted, but I wasn't positive. I brought the cable along when we visited a friend with hardware skills. While we were talking he casually unsoldered my botched job and resoldered it nicely. I probably never soldered again :-( -- Cheers, Bev When you stop bitching you start dying. |
| John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Oct 07 10:53PM -0700 On 2018/10/07 7:34 PM, John Larkin wrote: > This is pretty bad. The box doesn't work. > https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0 You bought that NEW? Or was it second/third/fifth hand? It looks like an idiot tried to modify it. I have trouble imagining a legitimate company letting something that hacked out for sale. John :-#(# |
| bitrex <user@example.net>: Oct 08 02:20AM -0400 On 10/08/2018 12:26 AM, John Larkin wrote: > For really small surface mount stuff, I use a big wedge tip and slop > solder on all the pins, shorting everything, then wick it. > A q-tip and acetone cleans things up pretty. Denatured alcohol is my go-to PCB cleaning fluid now, acetone is a better solvent but seems to also aggressively maul a lot of different plastics and resins as well. I absent-mindedly poured a bit in a Styrofoam cup one day, the bottom instantly disintegrates into goop, fun times |
| <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org>: Oct 08 07:42AM John Larkin wrote >This is pretty bad. The box doesn't work. >https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0 Strange, in https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0&file_subpath=%2FElenco_CS-440_5.JPG I see a position marked as R5 with a capacitor in it... Maybe they use the same board for resistor bank and capacitor bank? It is a good argument (the other pics) to use flexible wires from switches etc to the PCB, not use PCB mounted / soldered user controls. After some switch rotations the solder joints will make bad contact. |
| John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>: Oct 08 01:08AM -0700 On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:53:10 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote: >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0 >You bought that NEW? Or was it second/third/fifth hand? New, from Amazon. It arrived that way. I opened it because it didn't work right. >It looks like an idiot tried to modify it. I have trouble imagining a >legitimate company letting something that hacked out for sale. It's Chinese. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics |
| John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com>: Oct 08 01:12AM -0700 On Sun, 7 Oct 2018 22:33:49 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley101@gmail.com> wrote: >the cable along when we visited a friend with hardware skills. While we >were talking he casually unsoldered my botched job and resoldered it >nicely. I probably never soldered again :-( My uncle Sheldon had a TV repair shop and used to babysit me, but he couldn't solder because he always had a beer in one hand and a cigarette in the other. So I sat in his lap and soldered for him, starting about the age of 3. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics |
| Look165 <look165@numericable.fr>: Oct 08 11:08AM +0200 Some professional soldering people do that far worse. The only problem for me in a possible shortcut between the two connections of the rectyfier bridge, an insulation pipe should be welcomed. It surely is the mains rectyfier, so a high voltage that could spike. Cursitor Doom a écrit : |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Oct 08 10:39AM On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 02:13:12 +0000, Jasen Betts wrote: > Eek! I'd like to see some insulator other than air between the AC nodes > of that bridge rectifier, it doesn't look like the gap is very much at > all. You can't see it properly from that angle which I admit looks alarming. If you could view it in 3D, you'd see there's plenty of clearance between those leads and they're very rigid, plus this is the low voltage/high current one and the applied voltage from the mains transformer across that secondary winding is only around 3.3V. I admit it's ugly, but it does the job fine and should last much longer than the failed monolithic bridge it replaces. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Oct 08 10:49AM On Mon, 08 Oct 2018 11:08:32 +0200, Look165 wrote: > connections of the rectyfier bridge, an insulation pipe should be > welcomed. > It surely is the mains rectyfier, so a high voltage that could spike. It's actually under 4V AC entering that "hand-crafted" rectifier. -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Oct 08 10:55AM On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 19:44:55 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote: > soldering iron or a crappy wood burner. I'll guess(tm) a wood burner, > probably with unplated rusted iron tips that can't be cleaned, wetted, > or tinned. These are just bog-standard soldering irons with no fancy temp control. But their tips are in much better condition than you imagined above, thankfully! > ripped out the guts from the defective capacitor and crammed the axial > caps inside. I used 85C caps which lasted about 6 months. I replace > them with 105C caps and they've been running for about 2 years. Maybe it was the additional 'jacketing' that caused the issue? You'd be trapping a layer of warm air in there causing a build up of heat, I'd guess? Thanks for the pep-talk btw. :-) -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Oct 08 10:57AM On Sun, 07 Oct 2018 21:26:58 -0700, John Larkin wrote: > You're fine, you're just using cruddy tools. That's very nice of you, John, but if you actually saw me in action you couldn't miss a distinct lack of dexterity on my part!! Anyway, 'tis said a bad workman always blames his tools.... -- This message may be freely reproduced without limit or charge only via the Usenet protocol. Reproduction in whole or part through other protocols, whether for profit or not, is conditional upon a charge of GBP10.00 per reproduction. Publication in this manner via non-Usenet protocols constitutes acceptance of this condition. |
| Look165 <look165@numericable.fr>: Oct 08 01:05PM +0200 OK, but a shortcut mai lead to some amperes. Cursitor Doom a écrit : |
| "pfjw@aol.com" <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: Oct 08 04:12AM -0700 37/73. True-eutectic solder where RHoS is not an issue. Anyone who uses 60/40 solder for other than plumbing and direct chassis connections on vintage radios deserves exactly what they get. Full Stop. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| <698839253X6D445TD@nospam.org>: Oct 08 03:01PM >couldn't solder because he always had a beer in one hand and a >cigarette in the other. So I sat in his lap and soldered for him, >starting about the age of 3. That is nothing, even before I was borm I would stick my hand out of mama's and grap the iron to practice soldering. |
| tabbypurr@gmail.com: Oct 08 08:25AM -0700 On Monday, 8 October 2018 03:34:36 UTC+1, John Larkin wrote: > This is pretty bad. The box doesn't work. > https://www.dropbox.com/s/cja04ohlswjt1ig/Elenco.zip?dl=0 nor does the website |
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