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Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 18 09:06PM On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 15:31:27 -0400, Paul wrote:   > And I was imagining pjp doing this... > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Instalacion_de_antena_en_Napo,_Iquitos_(Marzo_2007).JPG > You can see his tower, clears the treetops.   Hi Paul,   Other than you and perhaps Dan, notice how fantastically SILENT the very many "semantic experts" are when pjg pactually needs real-world advice...   There are three types of people on this thread: 1. Purposefully helpful people adding value (a handful, at most) 2. What I'll call "semantic experts" (who post nothing of value) 3. People accusing everyone else of being a troll (they're all trolls)   All the trolls can do, is accuse everyone else of being a troll o Which, you have to admit, is kind of classically humoroous. (if it wasn't so sad that they "think" they're adults)   All most of those "semantic experts" can do, is play silly games. o That's why I come down hard on them - because they're not at all helpful   As for your humorous photo, if that's pjp climbing that antenna, then pjp is a lot younger than most of us Usenet'sters seem to be!   Back to help pjp, I am envisioning, for pjp, more like something like this: <https://www.flamelily.co.uk/2018/11/Community-broadband-project-in-Worcestershire/>   Where they threw WiFi from a pub roof to a tree 1.8 miles (3 Km) away. o With speeds of about 115Mbps at 5500MHz with about -62dBm signal strength   They seem to have used two "LiteBeam" radios to connect their community. <https://www.ui.com/airmax/litebeam-ac/>   Which, pjp can get, today, in a two-pack for $65 each: <https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LiteBeam-LBE-5AC-Gen2-US-airMAX-450Mbps-2PACK/dp/B0752Y57SB>   They mounted the "source" $65 Ubiquiti Litebeam 5AC to the roof <https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-LBE-5AC-GEN2-US-LiteBeam-Wireless-Bridge/dp/B06Y2JH7PV>   Just as pjp would, and the "receiver" twin on the trunk of a tree. <https://www.amazon.com/LiteBeam-LBE-5AC-Gen2-Ethernet-Protector-High-Speed/dp/B07GT2Y5GN?>   o Given a puny 7dBm transmit setting where I don't know the antenna dBi: <https://www.flamelily.co.uk/img/blog/airos.png>   Despite the fact that even William Unruh implied radio waves can't penetrate 'solid' structures (as did a few other "semantic experts"), pjp can penetrate trees to his RV, but penetrating foliage always makes the calculations far more dicey.   BTW, here's a group of folks who explained how to get through the foliage: <https://community.ui.com/questions/Wireless-Bridge-through-some-trees/1da09a2d-43c4-455d-8650-72c6891ed13c> Where they went about 500 feet from the house to the barn thru trees: <https://img.community.ui.com/d1ab1f62-229f-42fb-8584-b6396ce142f8/questions/1da09a2d-43c4-455d-8650-72c6891ed13c/3946f29d-c5f5-45cb-9d91-76fa4e648e55>   -- Always posting purposefully helpful adult technical value to share on the Usenet potluck, at the same time as pointing out what the worthless "semantic experts" post, which is of absolutely zero adult value.

Markymark <mtrmark@sonic.net>: Oct 18 02:32PM -0700 Why all the hateful disparaging remarks?

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 18 09:35PM On Thu, 17 Oct 2019 23:19:27 -0700, Johann Beretta wrote:   > It's not the same. A ski mask is for skiing. You can't accidentally use > it to rob a bank.   Hi Johann,   Let's focus our insight on helping people do what we do all the time, OK? O We throw WiFi easily for a dozen miles, without blinking, Johann   They can certainly paint an RV with WiFi when it's only a mere km away!   My point is that when pjp asks for help in throwing WiFi a kilometer from his house to his RV, I don't endlessly harp on what there is zero evidence for - which is that I feel it's suspicious that his RV is parked a kilometer away from his house - I don't like that - I think that's suspicously - highly suspicious in fact - so - instead of helping the guy - I endlessly harp on WHY he parks his RV a kilometer way from the house. o Maybe he's parking his RV a kilometer from his house to break the law!   You think that way, and that's OK. o But I just think the guy wants to paint the RV with Internet.   We think differently, Johann. o I'm more trusting than you Johann. More innocent. o I'm always purposefully helpful.   Which is why it bothers me that the common trolls who infest this newsgroup are the opposite of me, which is that nothing they posts adds any value whatsoever - and - even ignorning them - doesn't stop them from infesting the USenet potluck (just look at what the trolls wrote in this thread).   > An uneducated person can buy a powerbeam, intend to use it for wifi, and > accidentally (because they don't know better) choose the wrong option in > the configuration, and break the law.   I think differently than the trolls (e.g., I never troll). o I think differently than the "semantic expert" (e.g., I add value).   And, I think differently than anyone who harranges us on "legal" issues o When there is zero evidence that pjp is attempting to break the law   It doesn't even occur to me to think the way you think. o Since you clearly think that way - all you have to do is say it once.   And then we can get back to adding value on Usenet. o Deal?   The guy needs advice on how to throw his WiFi a kilometer o From his house to his RV o Where there is only a "hole" in the trees back at the RV o And where the RV has generator power.   One place you can help advise pjp (and the rest of us as a result) is how you'd recommend he "power" the tree radio at the RV.   For example, would you recommend just mooching off the RV battery?   > It's a drop down menu. It can be clicked on accidentally. These devices > are not, and have never been, meant for the general public. The rockets > are even worse.   Let's stop harranging on the legality issue. o You said it once; we agreed ... can we move on to helping people?   Another question you can help advise pjp on, and, in the process, the rest of us learn from your advice, is how much power loss is calculatable for penetrating less-than-dense foliage a distance of a kilometer.   I documented in this post just now a case where someone went about 500 feet through what appears from the pictures to be all foliage, where I'm curious what you think, from your experience, is possible to penetate with typical Ubiquiti equipment such as that described in this post just now: <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sci.electronics.repair/mfFaPuRWHmg/6TZUzxc1CAAJ>   -- The whole point of Usenet is for adults to helpfully share on-topic value.

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Oct 18 06:08PM -0500 On 10/18/19 4:32 PM, Markymark wrote:   > Why all the hateful disparaging remarks?   Because Arlen just can't handle being corrected when he's wrong. Much like our current President.     -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

Roger Blake <rogblake@iname.invalid>: Oct 18 11:12PM > Because Arlen just can't handle being corrected when he's wrong. > Much like our current President.   At least our current President is not addicted to peppering everything he says with annoying bullet points.   -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Roger Blake (Posts from Google Groups killfiled due to excess spam.)   NSA sedition and treason -- http://www.DeathToNSAthugs.com Don't talk to cops! -- http://www.DontTalkToCops.com Badges don't grant extra rights -- http://www.CopBlock.org -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 19 01:36AM On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 00:52:31 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:   > the sort most people use to allow them to use laptops, fobile moans, > etc. around the house, or whether you need special kit like the > companies who provide WISP use, which I imagine costs a _lot_ more.   Hi J.P. Gilliver,   I think you haven't been reading all the posts, which is ok. o So I will just gently "set you straight" on some of your advice to pjp   Where, I THANK YOU immensely for being purposefully helpful o As you are wont to be (which is a good thing - as you're an adult)   The main takeaway of of this thread, for this newsgroup, is that the far "better" equipment costs about the same as the "crappy" consumer stuff.   That is, for the same amount of money pjp would spend for anemic consumer stuff at the local box stores, online, if pjp knows what he needs, he can get far better "pro" equipment.   Also bear in mind, _all_ the CPE we're talking about is weatherproof. o The consumer stuff might not be weatherproof.   As you know, we're always purposefully helpful, so I first want to THANK YOU for being helpful to pjp (9/10s of these posts are purposefully unhelpful, always from the _same_ set of people who post for amusement).   To attempt to answer your question indirectly, pjp 'can' use anything that has the power to go one kilometer with a result on each end of, oh, say, -60 dBm at each radio (other things being considered such as SNR, sensitivity, etc.).   To answer your question directly, as far as we can tell, the transmit power of most $100 home routers is miniscule, at around 15 dBm, where the omni's attached add only about 3 dBi (at most) for a rather puny less than 20 decibels EIRP.   If we pick the midrange aforementioned $100 Ubiquiti PowerBeams, <https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-PowerBeam-High-Performance-airMAX-PBE-5AC-Gen2-US/dp/B071DV94TJ>   Then pjp gets, for about the price of a home router, something like ten to one hundred and maybe even one thousand times the power, where we'd have to look at the specific equipment to make the exact calculation.   Hence, I would argue, for the same price, why bother with what will end upo being crappy equipment with crappy signal when you can have good equipment with good signal?   > I can't see the distance - 1 km represents an extra about 3 ěs - causing > a problem;   In practice, the latency & jitter on this stuff seems to NOT be a problem for most purposes, where, for example, my Internet comes from 6 miles away and the aren't many issues (VOIP is a bit jittery though).   > the cabling up to the aerials probably more so, since most > wifi kit I'm aware of is USB, and USB is limited to a few metres   THERE IS ZERO USB INVOLVED! o None.   Nobody is talking USB (not that I'm aware of, anyway).   All the "cabling" is cat5 (or cat6), outdoor, grounded if you like. o The cabling works for hundreds of feet, so it's not an issue.   A bigger issue with long cabling is that animals chew it up, but in pjp's case, the cabling is only going to be a hundred feet (or so) on each end.   Let me sketch it out for you to understand that there is zero USB involved! 1. Internet signal starts at pjp's modem (or router) home Ethernet port. 2. With cat5, it goes from that modem (or router) to the POE. 3. The POE is usually right next to the router (in almost all cases). 4. From that POE, another cat5 cable goes up to the rooftop radio. --- that's it for the house --- A. At the treetop radio, there's a cat5 cable running down the tree B. That cat5 runs to the POE inside the RV (most likely) C. That POE has another cat5 that goes to the laptop Ethernet port --- that's it for the rv ---   If, perchance, pjp wants to innervate a handful of laptops a. Then the cat5 goes into a switch inside the RV b. Where pjp can plug in a handful of laptops over cat5   If, perchance, pjp wants to feed a handful of mobile devices c. Then the cat5 goes into a spare Wi-Fi router inside the RV d. Where all the mobile devices connect to the AP of that router   It's really that easy. o Notice NOTHING is USB.   Nothing.   > "cables" as I understand the term, as they have a lump of electronics in > them), or some out of the ordinary home-style wifi kit, that uses > ethernet rather than USB.   Hi J.P. Gilliver. It's just normal cat5 cable. o The outdoor stuff should be better quality, and grounded   But it's still just normal cat5 stuff. o There are no "electronics" in the middle to speak of.   The "POE", which is almost always right next to the router at home, and in the RV, is all the "electronics" you need.   Each radio comes with its own POE which is usually 12 to 24 volts at 1 to 2 amps (they are essentially interchangeable in most cases).   Some POE's have the reset switch built into them, which is handy because you can reset the radio from the ground without having to climb the tree!   > I _suspect_ that'll still be cheaper than > "professional" WISP kit, but I'm not sure.   Hi J.P. Gilliver,   I appreciate that you're one of the few here who are actually trying to purposefully help the OP, so I'll explain the whole point of this thread.   The professional equipment is "about the same price" as consumer stuff. o And yet, the professional stuff is hundreds of times better   For one, it's all weatherproofed. o For another, the power difference attainable is astronomical.   With Wi-Fi, decibels are everything.   > around farm buildings or similar; I can't see why such can't be used for > a longer hop, if you're as isolated as you say, so interference from > other users of the band is unlikely.   Hi J.P. Gilliver, Did you see the post from Johann who owns a WISP company? o He thinks that consumer stuff is utter crap.   So do I.   Let me repeat: o If you know what we know (i.e., what equipment to use) o Then you can pay about the same as you would for consumer crap o But end up with HUNDREDS of times the power o And weatherproofing   If I didn't mention it yet, decibels are everything.   > a chimney, or in particular a tree, will be susceptible to wind and > similar - you don't want to be climbing up to realign the aerial every > time it's a bit windy.   Hi J.P. Gillver, I don't think you read the specs. o Each antenna has a spec for how it handles in the wind.   These things don't blow about in the wind like you think they do. o We get 100 mph gusts here on top of the mountain   And I've NEVER had to re-align my antenna. o Not even once.   And mine is three times the diameter of the one I'm suggesting for pjp.   The point is that there is zero chance that a properly installed antenna will blow in the wind because these things are DESIGNED for the wind.   You'd be amazed at how well built they are o My Rocket M5, for example, is almost all stainless steel bolts.   The home repair folks would have orgasm just holding it in their hands. <https://i.postimg.cc/yNXw0TZS/antenna02.jpg>   > you can get (certainly for 2.4 GHz, I assume for 5 by now) Yagi beams, > i. e. a long rod with directors, like a TV aerial; these might be less > susceptible to wind than a dish.   Again, do NOT worry about wind. o Don't you think they THOUGHT about wind when they designed the mounts?   > (Last time I looked, the name Swann > seemed to be significant - better known for home video [security cameras > and the like]; I think they're Australian.   We already had people like Johann suggest manufacturers. o Swann _never_ once came up.   Dunno anything about them ... but if they make CPE, then check them out. o I wouldn't suggest pjp waste _any_ time on the manufacturer.   It's Ubiquiti that most WISPs around here use ... o For good reasons.   Price and performance and reliablity and weatherproofing o Being just some of them.   > There may be a company, or > distributor, in your country.)   Hmmm... Do you know what country pjp is in? o The country might make a differenc if Amazon won't ship to them.   All the stuff I'm advocating is sold left and right. o I usually buy from Streakwave; but Amazon sells all this stuff.   Why waste time on the manufacturer when pjp's problem isn't that?   > significantly, but let wind through a fair bit. I don't know if such are > easily available for 2.4 or 5 GHz, though (I know they are for satellite > TV).   That seems like logical advice, where, you'll note, I have quite a few grid antennas, but in practice, we use the dishes all the time and they work fine.   Methinks you have no experience with the wind resistance of these things. o That's OK as you bring up good points.   However, if wind was a problem then the WISPs would be spending all their time re-aligning antennas, which, in practice, just doesn't happen.   > (Though compared to UK, I envy your having that much land to play with! > Few here other than remoter parts of Scotland have anywhere near that > much!)   Out here, on our Silicon Valley mountaintops, you can't built two houses on 79 acres, becuase we have 40 acre zoning.   So everyone has tons of acres. Tons and tons and tons of acres.   That's why we keep all these radios lying around: <https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg>   -- It's great when people are purposefully helpful to each other on Usenet.

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 19 01:59AM On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 00:54:35 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:     > Even if you find some "regular soho AP" that'll have the necessary > connectors for antennas for cheap, you still need the outdoor antennas, > and so on that ends up eating into the "savings".   Hi Dan,   I'm suggesting that even the PowerBeams are overkill for what pjp needs. o They're #200 for the set   Amazon sells them (do they ship to wherever pjp lives?): <https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-PBE-M5-400-2-pack-PowerBeam-AirMAX/dp/B00UZ03UUW>   These are hundreds of times more powerful than any consumer equipment you're likelty to find in any local box store, I wager.   These things go for many miles, so 1km is child's play. o You can always dial down the transmit power as desired   As you've seen in my photos, these radios have a way of multiplying over time, so you will always appreciate that you can re-purpose them any time you like (e.g., if pjp sells his RV, he can re-use the radios).   One example of radio re-use is for him to mount the radio on a pole OUTSIDE his house, where he can feed his own Internet signal BACK into the house, so that he can paint a far off corner of the house.   Running the cat5 cable outside is usually a lot easier than running it inside, which is why we do this neat trick all the time where I live.   All this stuff is weather proofed like you can't believe, besides.   -- Bringing useful ideas to Usenet for discussion by intelligent adults.

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 19 02:22AM On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 02:28:09 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:   > aerial socket (they come with a stubby "rubber duck" type aerial, but > removable) - this sort of thing: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27241640286. > The router end _often_ has aerials on removable sockets.   Hi J.P. Gilliver,   That might be a neat idea for pjp (and others) to explore.   Unfortunately, that link shows up "dead" when I just tried it: <https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27241640286>   Do you have a working link so we can take a look at it for pjp? o What's important is the transmit power & antenna gain!   Also, does anyone know what COUNTRY pjp is in?   > For the aerials, this doesn't look too bad > https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233366568286:   Let's look at that antenna, where, I entered its description into Google: o 2.4Ghz Wifi Antenna 25Dbi Rp Sma Outdoor Wireless Yagi Antenna Directional B S2P Which found it for $18 at Amazon:   To see what my favorite distributor, Streakwave, sells like it: <https://www.amazon.com/2-4GHz-RP-SMA-Antenna-Wireless-Outdoor/dp/B075TGCR3G>   And $14 at Walmart: <https://www.walmart.com/ip/TSV-RP-SMA-2-4GHz-25dBi-Directional-Outdoor-Wireless-Yagi-Antenna-WiFi-For-Router-VP/784752332>   Where this has a nice photo of the connector, which seems to be, on first inspection, to be an "N-connector" (like those the bullets have): <https://www.amazon.com/Antenna-Booster-802-11b-GETWIREDUSA-US70/dp/B01BTE2WCY>   Given you need to reduce losses when connecting these things, the $75 "bullet" should plug right in, and that gives you 630mW of transmit power: <https://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Bullet-M2-HP-Wireless/dp/B00HXT8DNM>   Note: You do NOT want to be futzing around with the connectors! (You can lose decibels in just the connection, even when done right!)   > pole or wall. Obviously, you'd need the pole (and a lot more cable, > which not to lose signal at those frequencies isn't going to be cheap), > but I would hope a lot less than 300.   Hi John, You have to consider that the user doesn't TOUCH the RF cabling.   The "cable" for RF is always as short as it can possibly be. o Notice there is ZERO cable in my powerbeams, for example. <https://i.postimg.cc/CLBXc080/antenna03.jpg> o And notice my bullet attached to a planar antenna has zero cable <https://i.postimg.cc/cHLndnbY/antenna.jpg>   Your setup costs about the same as my setup pictured above does. o Depending on how much your radio costs, of course   > are harder to search for on ebay, but the few I found seem also to be 24 > or 25 dBi, but a lot more expensive (and I suspect would be more > wind-susceptible).   The wind is NOT a problem for any of these dish antennas properly mounted. o Neither is the rain.   I wouldn't choose my antenna based on worrying about what won't happen. o I'd choose the antenna based on gain and location   I'd also diligently MATCH the RF connector!   > [Those, as I see them, are post free, about 2 pounds for the dongle and > 8 for the aerial; if they come out differently where you are, search for > "wifi yagi" and "USB wifi dongle" (or similar) on your local ebay.]   John, The USB dongle "might" be a good idea o But your link didn't work for me.   Do you have a description of it? o Particularly the transmit power & antenna gain   -- When Usenet works like it should, adults share valueable information.

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 19 02:40AM On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 02:18:54 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:   > antennas can lead to headaches. Not to mention that the signal will > attenuate somewhat heavily in a coax cable between the transmitter and > the antenna (30 dB per 100 feet in RG6).   Hi Dan,   I like JP Gilliver's suggestion to use less expensive equipment than the $100 PowerBeams I'm suggesting that pjp use to throw his WiFi from his house to a puny 1 kilometer away - where JP's link was dead so we don't yet know the transmit power of the suggested radio.   But on the antenna connections, I wouldn't suggest extending the length.   o Remember I asked the group WHY my $75 bullet had zero Rf cable? <https://i.postimg.cc/cHLndnbY/antenna.jpg>   It's the same reason my $100 PowerBeam also has zero RF cable: <https://i.postimg.cc/CLBXc080/antenna03.jpg>   About six inches is the longest RF cable I have, in my $150 rockets, Dan: <https://i.postimg.cc/nrkz5mgs/antenna01.jpg>   There is a really good REASON the RF coax is short to nonexistent, Dan. o Paul already said why, when I asked him why this is the case.   When you need distance by wire, you use cat5 cable. o It's what I've seen all the professionals do.   The only thing pjp needs to do with the RF coax is MATCH the connector. o Everything else is done with cat5 cable.   I like John's idea of less expensive equipment - but we don't yet know the cost or power of the suggested "USB" radio transmitter so we can't do a comparison yet for pjp.   -- Usenet is a potluck where people from all backgrounds mix & share ideas.

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 19 03:06AM On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 02:28:15 -0000 (UTC), Dan Purgert wrote:   > Which is why I said "Nanobeam" and not "Powerbeam". I also specified > the higher end "AC" models. The older NBE-M5 is quite a bit less.   Hi Dan, Thanks for pointing that out, where I apologize if I misunderstood. (it happens to the best of us on Usenet, from time to time).   I'm all for the cheapest best solution that does the job for pjp.   And, Lord knows, I have experience with those nanobeams, one of which is in my photo below, where you see it at the far left on the shelf (it's the dark tan steel dish to the left of the plastic dish powerbeam, and to the right of the T-Mobile cellular repeater on the shelf): <https://i.postimg.cc/XJChDCPr/spare-access-points.jpg>   I've even written a tutorial on Usenet (of many) to help people set it up: o How to set up Ubiquiti Nanobeam M2 as an Access Point, wired to a wired extender, on WISP? <https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.internet.wireless/bntXcBthi7o/sRvoqauSCQAJ>   That tutorial was written in 2017, but since then, as I already noted to Johann, we've soured on the steel-dish nanobeams, in favor of the newer plastic-dish PowerBeams (which, we replaced with much larger 2GHz rockets, and then we replaced them with less-noise susceptible 5GHz rockets).   In fact, perfectly apropos for the topic of this thread, here is that same nanobeam connected to my IBM Thinkpad laptop, to vastly extend the WiFi range of that ThinkPad laptop so I could work outside by the pool. <https://i.postimg.cc/Hs0NWSKr/laptopnanobeam.jpg>   Notice that you get hundreds of times the power of the laptop WiFi simply by plugging that nanobeam into the Ethernet port on the Thinkpad!   Maybe even thousands. o It's that simple to extend the WiFi range of a computer with Ethernet.   BTW, I have a few nanobeams myself in use, but I hate them, as we had to replace ALL of them, over time, for the powerbeams and then the rockets.   They're just unreliable in our use model (which I said prior to Johann): o Even so, how much cheaper are nanobeams than the newer $100 powerbeams?   If the NanoBeams are appreciable less expensive than the PowerBeams o I'm all for it since a kilometer for any of these radios is child's play   -- People converse on Usenet to exchange ideas with other helpful adults.

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 19 03:26AM On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:06:15 -0000 (UTC), Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:   > nanobeam connected to my IBM Thinkpad laptop, to vastly extend the WiFi > range of that ThinkPad laptop so I could work outside by the pool. > <https://i.postimg.cc/Hs0NWSKr/laptopnanobeam.jpg>   BTW, as Johann Beretta noted prior, you "could" pull the horn out of that radio, and it would be a LOT smaller, and still be a LOT more powerful than the utterly puny 30mW (or whatever) 1/2 dBi (or whatever) Wi-Fi output of that anemic IBM ThinkPad WiFi. <https://i.postimg.cc/Hs0NWSKr/laptopnanobeam.jpg>   Notice that simply by plugging the Ethernet cable coming out of the horn into the Ethernet port of the IBM ThinkPad, the WiFi range of that laptop is instantly extended (by a LOT).   That's a key point of this thread, is that this power is availble to all. o If you simply know what to buy & what it can do for you when you have it

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 19 03:37AM On Sat, 19 Oct 2019 03:04:45 -0000 (UTC), Arlen _G_ Holder wrote:   > If the NanoBeams are appreciable less expensive than the PowerBeams > o I'm all for it since a kilometer for any of these radios is child's play   Hmm... the AC NanoBeam is about the same price as the PowerBeam...   Here's a set of two, for $198, for example, on Amazon: o NanoBeam AC Gen2 NBE-5AC-Gen2-US 5GHz airMAX CPE with Dedicated Management Radio Bridge (2 Pack) <https://www.amazon.com/NanoBeam-NBE-5AC-Gen2-US-airMAX-Dedicated-Management/dp/B07NNWY9Y8>   But, it doesn't really matter all that much, since pjp can choose almost _any_ radio that Ubiquiti sells, and it will throw Wi-Fi a puny kilometer.   All he has to do, essentially, is: a. Mount the antennas (they're designed to be mounted to a "J arm" or pole) b. Plug in the Ethernet cable on each end c. Enjoy his Intenet over WiFi, easily a kilometer away from where started   While pjp can certainly do the job for less than $200, I'd suggest he compare every option to the $200 PowerBeams, in terms of: o Transmitter power o Antenna gain o Weatherproofing standards   Bearing in mind, the more powerful the radio, the more re-uses you end up finding for it (you can always dial the transmit power down or use the horn without the antenna, for example).   Here's an example of me using the NanoBeam to extend the WiFi of a laptop: <https://i.postimg.cc/Hs0NWSKr/laptopnanobeam.jpg>   Where, it didn't occur to me at the time, but I could have used just the "horn", which would have been more convenient while wardriving.....   -- Usenet is a public potluck where adults share items of technical value.

Arlen _G_ Holder <_arlen.george@halder.edu>: Oct 19 03:57AM On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 23:33:35 -0400, Paul wrote:     > "600Mbps USB WiFi Adapter Dongle Card Wireless"   > https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600Mbps-USB-WiFi-Adapter-Dongle-Card-Wireless-Network-Laptop-Desktop-PC-Antenna/383004055738   > Paul     Hi Paul,   Thanks for locating the dongle that JP (presumably) had suggested: <https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/600Mbps-USB-WiFi-Adapter-Dongle-Card-Wireless-Network-Laptop-Desktop-PC-Antenna/383004055738>   Those things certainly are damn cheap, that's fer' sure! o If they work for pjp ... then that's a GREAT idea.   As you can see from this photo, I'm all for just plugging stuff into a typical laptop like my IBM ThinkPad to instantly extend its WiFi range: <https://i.postimg.cc/Hs0NWSKr/laptopnanobeam.jpg>   I didn't think about it at the time I took that photo (in 2017), but, I could have pulled out the horn, as Johann Beretta noted, and then it would have been a LOT smaller also.   Those "dongles" list the "Mbps" but what about what really matters? o We need the transmit power & antenna gain   That's really what matters. o Whenever they won't say it ... I start worrying.   But I have to easily admit - those things are damn cheap! o If only they work!   Dunno.   Does anyone have experience with these things?   For example, one option for pjp is to only put the Ubiquiti radio on his roof and then use one of those dongles at the RV.   The limitation would be in the weakest equipment which, of course, would be the WiFi dongle so that's why it's critically important to ascertain: o What is the transmit power & antenna gain of those dongles?   -- Usenet is great as a public potluck where adults helpfully share ideas.

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Oct 18 12:41PM -0400 > neutral is also tied to a ground at the pole. There is at least one > pole before mine that has a wire going to ground from the neutral. And > yes, I did have 220 while the neutral wire was down.   That's pretty scary, actually. If the ground at the pole was broken, or marginal, the primary would be grounded by your & your neighbor's service ground rods. I.e., your service would be part of the 17,000 volt circuit. In the very worst case, if your grounds were broken, you would have 17,000 volts on your houses' circuits, just waiting for a path to ground.   ----- 17,000 -----) (----- 240 ---- ) (___.________ Neutral _____ ) ( | | X Neutral --+-) (---|--240 ---- | |________| Gnd | Gnd     > I am amazed that the ground could work so well. Maybe it's because the > ground here is so wet. > Eric   Part of it working so well is that most of the current in one leg returns through the other leg. It's only the difference that returns through the ground. E.g., if there were 10 amps of load on 1 leg and 12 on the other, only 2 amps would flow through the ground.

Bob Engelhardt <BobEngelhardt@comcast.net>: Oct 18 12:48PM -0400 On 10/18/2019 12:41 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote: ... >                 |________|                     Gnd >                 | >                 Gnd   Oops ... those "240" legs are really 120 each.

etpm@whidbey.com: Oct 18 01:14PM -0700 On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 12:41:25 -0400, Bob Engelhardt >returns through the other leg. It's only the difference that returns >through the ground. E.g., if there were 10 amps of load on 1 leg and 12 >on the other, only 2 amps would flow through the ground. When I first saw the line down I was leaving my place. I saw a cable on the ground and thought it was a stay that broke. But then I looked up and could see the neutral was broken, not a cable stay. When I called PSE I told them I had a neutral line down. They told me to treat it as if it was a live wire. I then said "Does that mean I shouldn't lick my finger and touch it?". The woman I was talking to just got silent for a couple beats and then repeated her admonition. Eric

Tom Biasi <tombiasi@optonline.net>: Oct 18 10:27PM -0400 > shouldn't lick my finger and touch it?". The woman I was talking to > just got silent for a couple beats and then repeated her admonition. > Eric   Do you also joke with TSA at airports?

Al <iqbalali898@noreply.com>: Oct 18 11:51PM On Fri, 18 Oct 2019 14:48:36 +0000, Cursitor Doom wrote:   > Any suggestions? I don't really want to pull individual transistors at > random for out-of-circuit testing on a 40 year old board if I can avoid > it.   How about.... power the board up and hold a thermocouple up against each of those transistors in turn looking for one that's got a higher or lower temp than the others? Or..... measure the voltages on the pins of each of those 6 transistors. Determine the transistor with the least out-of-whack voltages then pull the one _furthest_ away from it. So for example say Q13 is closest to normal expected values..... then pull Q10 out for testing. Best I can come up with. :/           --   Some mothers do have 'em!

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 18 05:05PM -0700 Cursitor Doom wrote:   --------------------- > Greetings, gentlemen,     ** Very funny ...     > Any suggestions? I don't really want to pull individual transistors at > random for out-of-circuit testing on a 40 year old board if I can avoid > it.   ** Have you checked the junctions of each transistor with an analogue multimeter on the ohms X1 range?   Sometimes you will find one or more with an open B-E junction or higher than normal resistance readings. Was very common with high voltage types in TO92 or TO5 packs from that era.   I used to pull dozens from Phase Linear amplifiers back in the day.   Check all the resistors too, not impossible for one to go high or open.   If any of the transistors show signs of heat stress, they should be your prime suspects.     .... Phil

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Oct 18 07:28PM -0500 On 10/18/19 7:05 PM, Phil Allison wrote: > ** Have you checked the junctions of each transistor with > an analogue multimeter on the ohms X1 range?   *laughs* Maybe a tube tester will help.     -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 18 05:56PM -0700 Fox's Mercantile Lunatic wrote:   ---------------------------   Phil Allison wrote:     > > ** Have you checked the junctions of each transistor with > > an analogue multimeter on the ohms X1 range?   > *laughs* Maybe a tube tester will help.   ** If you have a point - then post it.   Make my day.   If you have nothing but a brainless snipe   then go fuck yourself       ..... Phil

Fox's Mercantile <jdangus@att.net>: Oct 18 08:56PM -0500 On 10/18/19 7:56 PM, Phil Allison wrote:   > then go fuck yourself   > ..... Phil   Aw come on Phil, it was a fucking joke.       -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Oct 18 07:14PM -0700 Fox's Mercantile wrote:   --------------------------   > Aw come on Phil, it was a fucking joke.   ** Really ???   On whom ?   About what ?   How exactly was it meant to be funny ?   You know my opinion of commercial "tube testers" but an analogue ohmmeter on the X1 range is invaluable as a primary check on PCBs with faulty BJTs - cos it works fine in circuit.   DMMs do not.     .... Phil

Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com>: Oct 18 02:04PM -0500 On Sat, 12 Oct 2019 17:57:51 -0700, MouseUser wrote:   > Buttons double-click on a single-click and sometimes do not click at > all.   > Is it possible to do my own refurbishment ? Yes, you can get replacement switches for the buttons, this is the classic symptom of worn-out switches. It seems all the mice and trackballs use essentially the same micro-switch, so you can salvage them from other mice or buy from Digi-Key, Mouser or whoever your electronic parts supplier is.   Jon

Jim Horton <jhorton@nospam.net>: Oct 18 01:09PM -0400 On 10/15/19 11:24 AM, Jim Horton wrote: >  However, I am left with mineral oil residue, not only on the > components to be wax embedded, but any spills, etc, and I'm wondering > what the best way is to remove it?  Thank you!     Just to follow up here, I found that the following did an excellent job not only removing almost all of the oil, but not damaging any surface it contacted or leaving any residue:   CRC 5103 Quick Dry Electronic Cleaner     It took 3 cans for the amount of oil I had to remove, but it did a great job. You can find it online, auto stores, or Walmart. I got mine at Walmart as it was cheapest.   I've been well past oil removal for several days and actually on my second wax potting attempt. By the way, the cleaner cleaned well enough that when I peeled away any remaining wax from my first try, some of it all of it was well in place with no oil residue anywhere. I could easily reuse the paraffin, but I am now going to try a beeswax/ rosin mix as I found that the paraffin shrank too much and had microcracks when cooled. The beeswax/ rosin will not be cheap, however. I had read a thread where someone added low temperature hot glue sticks to standard melted paraffin to increase its strength, but unfortunately I couldn't find any specifics on it, such as mix ratios, etc, and determining whether or not the hot glue is EVA seems a big task since the market packaging doesn't indicate it.

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