- Toyota wires are thinner - 21 Updates
- It pays to save electronics scrap. - 1 Update
| micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>: May 05 01:10PM -0400 The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my American cars were. I've had GM and Chryslers built from 1950 to 1995, and Toyotas from 2000 and 2005. I'm not saying they are too thin, just thinner. Do you know why? I see two poassible reasons. 1) Increased efforts to save money and help the environment, by using thinner and thus cheaper wire. Perhaps wires in American cars are thinnner now too?? 2) Japan and the Japanese domestic auto industry after WWII was short of money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they see no reason to change. It matters only when I'm trying to splice wires, and I have to be more careful not to cut the wires while stripping the insulation. But the wires are so thin that there have been connections I don't try to make, because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard, for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes it harder to repair it. |
| "ohg...@gmail.com" <ohger1s@gmail.com>: May 05 10:54AM -0700 On Wednesday, May 5, 2021 at 1:10:43 PM UTC-4, micky wrote: > because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard, > for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes > it harder to repair it. I don't think it matters as long as the wiring lasts the life of the car. I've seen crappy wiring in Japanese consumer electronics, but again, as long as it lasts the product's lifetime and can carry the required current at the rated voltage, what does it matter? |
| "Peter W." <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 05 10:57AM -0700 I expect that the wires are thinner because they are carrying far less current than they once did. Why? a) LED lamps instead of incandescent lamps. b) Digital gauges (if any at all) instead of analog gauges. c) Chip driven diagnostics. I also expect that Toyota would not move to thinner-gauge wire purely as a matter of first-cost economics if one considers the cost of even a single recall vs. the heavier gauge wire. I also doubt if it is a 'green' decision any more so than any other realized efficiency due to refinements in technology and/or execution. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| krw@notreal.com: May 05 03:16PM -0400 On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote: >money and had to economize any way it could. Thinner, cheaper wires >were one way, and now, even though they are making plenty money, they >see no reason to change. 3) Copper is expensive. 4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously. IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don't remember but Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car. |
| Tekkie© <Tekkie@comcast.net>: May 05 04:44PM -0400 On Wed, 05 May 2021 13:10:37 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest... > because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard, > for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes > it harder to repair it. Did you ever consider that much of what a car operates on is computer controlled? The wire sizes are set for load by the SAE which any manufacturer would seemingly not violate. If you have trouble cutting the wire while stripping insulation you are using a notch size too small, cheap stripper or a knife. The trick is to start with a bigger wire size and if that doesn't work go one size smaller. Let the stripper do the work. Wire gauge is opposite of size i.e. 22 gauge is smaller than 18 gauge. If you have the green crusties then you have water ingress. Put the wire back in the loom when done making sure it is as close to the location as it was. Some situations may require the loom/wire be relocated due to manufacturers defect /-( -- Tekkie |
| "tschw...@aol.com" <tschw10117@aol.com>: May 05 03:35PM -0700 The wires in your Toyota may not be thinner. Every manufacturer uses the same formulas and guidelines for determining wire gauge based on load. Some manufacturers will have a minimum size they will use, based mostly on the types of connectors that they want to use/have qualified for their vehicles. Your Toyota wiring may have thinner insulation. Recent advances in insulation materials have allowed for smaller diameter / thickness insulation that saves weight and bulk, and therefore fuel and possibly cost, although some of the newer insulation types are significantly more expensive than the older materials. So in fact, it's possivble that your wire harness is of better quality and more expensive than some other makes.... There is so much cross pollination between manufacturers now that the differences between foreign & domestic, or even just maker1 to maker2.... are essentially meaningless. |
| micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>: May 05 08:21PM -0400 In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 05 May 2021 15:16:19 -0400, krw@notreal.com wrote: >4) Weight. Every pound counts towards EPA fuel ratings. Seriously. >IIRC, domestic cars use mostly 20Ga wire. I don't remember but >Japanese may use 22Ga. There is a *lot* of wire in a car. So you're agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the Americans do? Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan? Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's? |
| "Peter W." <peterwieck33@gmail.com>: May 05 05:43PM -0700 > So you're agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the > Americans do? > Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan? Are you capable of reading for content? The war (WWII) is 75+ years done. Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA |
| "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com>: May 06 11:25AM +1000 "micky" <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com> wrote in message news:5jd69g9f9akaci99nvvd8lk2pcv3lmudtc@4ax.com... > So you're agreeing that the Japanese use thinnner wire than the > Americans do? > Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan? Nope, it took them quite a while before they did cars after the war and they included stuff that was optional on the local cars to get people to buy unknown cars. > Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's? Dunno. I've added another newsgroup, Jim in there prefers american cars, not sure if its recent ones tho. |
| williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com>: May 06 03:02AM +0100 On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote: >>>> because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard, >>>> for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes >>>> it harder to repair it. The wires on 24V vehicles are thinner than them on 12V vehicles. Yes I do know why. "Dad, why are the wires made of lots of little thin wires?" "There's one for each volt son." "Dad, I've counted the thin wires in this thick one and there's 84. So is that 84 volts?" "It's your bedtime." Bill |
| rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: May 05 09:55PM -0600 On 05/05/2021 02:44 PM, Tekkie� wrote: > bigger wire size and if that doesn't work go one size smaller. Let the stripper > do the work. Wire gauge is opposite of size i.e. 22 gauge is smaller than 18 > gauge. I bought a trailer light harness for the Toyota. When I looked at the gauge of the taillight wiring and the tight location I decided I might do it some other day if I really wanted to hook up the trailer. That model is rated for towing in the US so a Y connector wasn't available. Oddly in the Canadian manual it is rated for 500 lb max. |
| Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>: May 06 06:15AM +0100 micky wrote: > The wires in my Toyota are much thinner than the wires in any of my > American cars were. I think it's probably a modern vs older, rather than japanese vs american thing? Car manufacturers seem to use "thin wall" cables now, using a tougher grade of PVC so that a greater %age of the overall volume of the wire is copper rather than plastic. Probably reduced copper too due to lower current requirements, as others have mentioned. |
| Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com>: May 06 05:57AM > because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard, > for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes > it harder to repair it. I thought it was to to with everything being CAN BUS now. Most of the wires just carry signals, essential power is carried by fewer thicker wires. https://tekeye.uk/automotive/can-bus-cable-wiring Tim -- Please don't feed the trolls |
| micky <NONONOmisc07@fmguy.com>: May 06 02:32AM -0400 I put back the other two groups or William will never see it. ;-( In alt.home.repair, on Wed, 5 May 2021 19:52:26 -0700 (PDT), Dean >> "Dad, I've counted the thin wires in this thick one and there's 84. So >> is that 84 volts?" >> "It's your bedtime." Very good. >> Bill > Yeahbut, I've never seen a 24 volt system on a car. My 50 Olds had room for a second battery, but it would have been a 2nd 6-volt battery. When you only have 6 volts, you often need a secodn battery, but I never got one. One December night it wouldn't start and for some reason I called AAA or something, and they couldn't start it either. They sold a device that would rearrange the connections of the two batteries. Never had one but I think it went from parallel for charging to series for starting. |
| Peeler <trolltrap@valid.invalid>: May 06 09:26AM +0200 On Wed, 5 May 2021 21:55:50 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling, troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again: > I bought a trailer light harness for the Toyota. Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did! > When I looked at the gauge of the taillight wiring and the tight location > I decided I might do it some other day if I really wanted to hook up the trailer. Yeah, he did! Yeah, he did! > That model is rated for towing in the US so a Y connector wasn't > available. Oddly in the Canadian manual it is rated for 500 lb max. No, it isn't! No, it isn't! |
| Peeler <trolltrap@valid.invalid>: May 06 09:34AM +0200 On Thu, 6 May 2021 11:25:43 +1000, cantankerous trolling geezer Rodent Speed, the auto-contradicting senile sociopath, blabbered, again: >> Do you think it had to do with post-war poverty in Japan? > Nope Simply unbelievable! LOL >> Have the Americans made their wires thinner than in the 1990's? > Dunno. I've added another newsgroup, I troll in. You are one pathetic trolling senile idiot indeed, senile Rodent! LOL -- Kerr-Mudd,John addressing the auto-contradicting senile cretin: "Auto-contradictor Rod is back! (in the KF)" MID: <XnsA97071CF43E3Fadmin127001@85.214.115.223> |
| rbowman <bowman@montana.com>: May 06 07:50AM -0600 On 05/05/2021 11:57 PM, Tim+ wrote: > I thought it was to to with everything being CAN BUS now. Most of the > wires just carry signals, essential power is carried by fewer thicker > wires. I'm guessing the tail light wires on the Toyota are 22 or 24 gauge. No problem for the application but considerably smaller than on my old ('86) pickup. I have no complaints with the car but it is not over-engineered as was typical in Detroit's golden years. |
| Rob <nomail@example.com>: May 06 01:51PM > "Dad, why are the wires made of lots of little thin wires?" > "There's one for each volt son." Wrong, of course. You should have said "there is 10 for every amp" or similar. |
| Rob <nomail@example.com>: May 06 01:52PM > ('86) pickup. > I have no complaints with the car but it is not over-engineered as was > typical in Detroit's golden years. Over-engineering is not good for the world as a whole. To do it "just right" saves on resources. Also in a modern car thje tail lights will be LED and use less power, so the wires can be even thinner. |
| Michael Chare <mUNDERSCOREnews@chareDO.Torg.uk>: May 06 04:30PM +0100 On 06/05/2021 02:25, Rod Speed wrote: >>>> because, where it's difficult to reach a wire, up under the dashboard, >>>> for example, that makes it even more likely I'll cut the wire and makes >>>> it harder to repair it. What I know is that my VW has LED lights at the rear and the wires going to these lights are thinner than what would have been used in the past for incandescent bulbs. The lights are controlled by a Can Bus signal. Car manufacturers have had problems buy computer type chips! -- Michael Chare |
| legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>: May 06 12:13PM -0400 >('86) pickup. >I have no complaints with the car but it is not over-engineered as was >typical in Detroit's golden years. Tail lights used to draw a couple of amps, requiring larger fuses, hence thicker wire. You'll find that modern trailer harness assemblies, with built-in protection circuitry, sometimes have trouble with old incandescent bulb turn-on surge current in older trailers. New cars may also have other kinds of limiters (faster), besides fuses. |
| Abandoned_Trolley <fred@fred-smith.uk>: May 06 09:59AM +0100 On 03/05/2021 21:32, Andrew Smallshaw wrote: > joints) although there are some theoretical advantages at high > frequencies I would generally consider the wire unsuitable at those > speeds. I was referring to "normal" multi stranded hook up wire - theres a different set of rules for wire wrapping. In some wrapping systems the insulation is left on the wire, and pierced by the shapened corners of the post - similar to IDC technology. I guess in those cases the trick is to pierce the insulation, but not the plating ? AT |
| You received this digest because you're subscribed to updates for this group. You can change your settings on the group membership page. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it send an email to sci.electronics.repair+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. |
No Response to "Digest for sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com - 22 updates in 2 topics"
Post a Comment