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Today's topics:

* Paralleled Amplifier Wiring - 11 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d586ede5490acff1?hl=en
* hissing sound coming from behind woofer on one side AR11 - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3a9cce9766f809ce?hl=en
* Zenith 25CC25 horizontal sweep problem - 3 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f0f84fb8db596265?hl=en
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* C Audio Pulse 2x 1100 watt amp - 1 messages, 1 author
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* THOMASWYLDE Handbags ((http://www.cntrade09.com ) ) - (paypal payment) - 1
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Paralleled Amplifier Wiring
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d586ede5490acff1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 5:33 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> Have you tried simply using a pair of 8-ohm speakers
>> with the amp? Chances are they'd work (less power,
>> but shouldn't harm the amp).

> I have, but then the audio output is too quiet for my requirements.

I'm not being sarcastic -- but how do you know that paralleling the outputs
will produce a significant increase in power? Ignoring the very pertinent
question of how to do this /correctly/, the most you could get is a 3dB
increase, which is plainly audible, but hardly a large increase.

== 2 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 5:56 pm
From: "j r powell"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i283ln$l13$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Have you tried simply using a pair of 8-ohm speakers
>>> with the amp? Chances are they'd work (less power,
>>> but shouldn't harm the amp).
>
>> I have, but then the audio output is too quiet for my requirements.
>
> I'm not being sarcastic -- but how do you know that paralleling the outputs
> will produce a significant increase in power? Ignoring the very pertinent
> question of how to do this /correctly/, the most you could get is a 3dB
> increase, which is plainly audible, but hardly a large increase.

A small increase is better than nothing.

== 3 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 6:07 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>>>> Have you tried simply using a pair of 8-ohm speakers
>>>> with the amp? Chances are they'd work (less power,
>>>> but shouldn't harm the amp).

>>> I have, but then the audio output is too quiet for my requirements.

>> I'm not being sarcastic -- but how do you know that paralleling the
>> outputs will produce a significant increase in power? Ignoring the
>> very pertinent question of how to do this /correctly/, the most you
>> could get is a 3dB increase, which is plainly audible, but hardly
>> a large increase.

> A small increase is better than nothing.

No, it isn't. Not when it requires a lot of work, and will be only slightly
audible.

"Forget about the whole thing." -- The Lady from Philadelphia

== 4 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 6:10 pm
From: "j r powell"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i285k5$s14$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> Have you tried simply using a pair of 8-ohm speakers
>>>>> with the amp? Chances are they'd work (less power,
>>>>> but shouldn't harm the amp).
>
>>>> I have, but then the audio output is too quiet for my requirements.
>
>>> I'm not being sarcastic -- but how do you know that paralleling the
>>> outputs will produce a significant increase in power? Ignoring the
>>> very pertinent question of how to do this /correctly/, the most you
>>> could get is a 3dB increase, which is plainly audible, but hardly
>>> a large increase.
>
>> A small increase is better than nothing.
>
> No, it isn't. Not when it requires a lot of work, and will be only slightly
> audible.

Fitting resistors is hardly a lot of work. I just need someone who knows their
stuff, to answer my original question.

== 5 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 6:38 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 7/21/2010 6:10 PM j r powell spake thus:

> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:i285k5$s14$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>>>> I'm not being sarcastic -- but how do you know that paralleling the
>>>> outputs will produce a significant increase in power? Ignoring the
>>>> very pertinent question of how to do this /correctly/, the most you
>>>> could get is a 3dB increase, which is plainly audible, but hardly
>>>> a large increase.
>>
>>> A small increase is better than nothing.
>>
>> No, it isn't. Not when it requires a lot of work, and will be only slightly
>> audible.
>
> Fitting resistors is hardly a lot of work. I just need someone who knows their
> stuff, to answer my original question.

So, William, what is the correct answer here (value of resistors)? I'm
curious now, too.

--
The fashion in killing has an insouciant, flirty style this spring,
with the flaunting of well-defined muscle, wrapped in flags.

- Comment from an article on Antiwar.com (http://antiwar.com)

== 6 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 6:53 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>>>>> I'm not being sarcastic -- but how do you know that paralleling the
>>>>> outputs will produce a significant increase in power? Ignoring the
>>>>> very pertinent question of how to do this /correctly/, the most you
>>>>> could get is a 3dB increase, which is plainly audible, but hardly
>>>>> a large increase.

>>>> A small increase is better than nothing.

>>> No, it isn't. Not when it requires a lot of work, and will be only
slightly
>>> audible.

>> Fitting resistors is hardly a lot of work. I just need someone who knows
their
>> stuff, to answer my original question.

> So, William, what is the correct answer here (value of resistors)? I'm
> curious now, too.

I don't see where I'm obliged to provide an answer, but here's what I
believe, to the best of my understanding...

Assuming that both channels have the same output impedance, and the output
levels are closely matched, then (if the outputs are directly paralleled)
there will be /no/ current flow from one channel into the other, and the
total amount of current that /could/ be delivered will be doubled. But if
the load impedance remains the same, there will be no increase in current
flow and no increase in volume level. You would need a speaker of half the
impedance to gain more power.

I think that's correct. Anybody want to agree or disagree?

== 7 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 7:09 pm
From: "tm"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i288c2$65c$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> I'm not being sarcastic -- but how do you know that paralleling the
>>>>>> outputs will produce a significant increase in power? Ignoring the
>>>>>> very pertinent question of how to do this /correctly/, the most you
>>>>>> could get is a 3dB increase, which is plainly audible, but hardly
>>>>>> a large increase.
>
>>>>> A small increase is better than nothing.
>
>>>> No, it isn't. Not when it requires a lot of work, and will be only
> slightly
>>>> audible.
>
>>> Fitting resistors is hardly a lot of work. I just need someone who knows
> their
>>> stuff, to answer my original question.
>
>> So, William, what is the correct answer here (value of resistors)? I'm
>> curious now, too.
>
> I don't see where I'm obliged to provide an answer, but here's what I
> believe, to the best of my understanding...
>
> Assuming that both channels have the same output impedance, and the output
> levels are closely matched, then (if the outputs are directly paralleled)
> there will be /no/ current flow from one channel into the other, and the
> total amount of current that /could/ be delivered will be doubled. But if
> the load impedance remains the same, there will be no increase in current
> flow and no increase in volume level. You would need a speaker of half the
> impedance to gain more power.
>
> I think that's correct. Anybody want to agree or disagree?
>

Well, you sure don't want to use resistors to match it. Any gain would just
be
converted to heat.

ASSuming the impedance's were the same and you paralleled the outputs, you
would need a 1.5 to 8 ohm transformer to match the speaker.

But I agree with the first premise, it's hardly worth the 3 dB you might
gain.

T

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

== 8 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 7:18 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Jul 21, 5:56 pm, "j r powell" <nos...@invalid.xy> wrote:
> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:i283ln$l13$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >>> Have you tried simply using a pair of 8-ohm speakers
> >>> with the amp? Chances are  they'd work (less power,
> >>> but shouldn't harm the amp).
>
> >> I have, but then the audio output is too quiet for my requirements.
>
> > I'm not being sarcastic -- but how do you know that paralleling the outputs
> > will produce a significant increase in power? Ignoring the very pertinent
> > question of how to do this /correctly/, the most you could get is a 3dB
> > increase, which is plainly audible, but hardly a large increase.
>
> A small increase is better than nothing.

The increase will be 0. Changing from 4 ohms to 8 will cut the power
in half because the voltage stayed the same and the current cut in
half because of the impedance change. Paralleling the amps raises
current capacity - which you don't need - and does nothing to increase
the voltage. In fact, your resistors will reduce it slightly. You need
a bigger amp.

G²

== 9 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 7:20 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"j r powell"
>
> I have a small stereo amplifier which came with two tiny 4ohm 3watt
> speakers.
> I'd like to combine the two channels of the amp in order to drive one,
> slightly larger, 8ohm 4watt speaker.
> The amp is of the non-bridgeable type, so I assume parallel wiring would
> be required - combining the two outputs together.

** The only way to go here is to use "bridge mode".

Parallel wiring of the outputs is not only 100% useless it will almost
certainly destroy both amplifier channels.

> I have read that small resistors are required in parallel configuration,
> to enable proper current sharing between the amplifiers,

** Complete crap.

There is such of lot of it on the net you know.

.... Phil

== 10 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 7:28 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

I made a mistake -- for some reason I assumed this was a tube amp. (I don't
know why.)

Regardless, if the output levels are closely matched, one amp /will not/
pump current into the other. But to gain any increase in power, you'd have
to use a lower-impedance speaker.

There is also the possibility that, even with the levels matched, the amps
might not "like" looking at each other.

"Buy a decent amplifier that delivers the power you need." -- The Lady from
Philadelphia

== 11 of 11 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 7:38 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Jul 21, 7:28 pm, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> I made a mistake -- for some reason I assumed this was a tube amp.
(I don't
> know why.)
>
> Regardless, if the output levels are closely matched, one amp /will
not/
> pump current into the other. But to gain any increase in power,
you'd have
> to use a lower-impedance speaker.

You are VERY WRONG on this.

> There is also the possibility that, even with the levels matched,
the amps
> might not "like" looking at each other.

Virtually a certainty.

> "Buy a decent amplifier that delivers the power you need." -- The
Lady from
> Philadelphia

This is good advice.

G²

==============================================================================
TOPIC: hissing sound coming from behind woofer on one side AR11
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/3a9cce9766f809ce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 7:15 pm
From: "Phil Allison"

"Amanda Ripanykhazov"

And for some reason I have never
understood, the surrounds in those old speakers aren't made of rubber
which disintegrates so that isnt a problem

** The AR11 woofer has a FOAM surround - all foam surrounds disintegrate
after about 10 to 20 years.

Most woofers made these days use rubber (aka roll) surrounds which have an
indefinite life excepting the odd case of adhesive failure.

.... Phil

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Zenith 25CC25 horizontal sweep problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f0f84fb8db596265?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 7:26 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Jul 20, 5:28 pm, Jim Adney <jad...@vwtype3.org> wrote:
> Thanks to everyone who took the time to respond. I'll try to respond
> to each of your comments.
>
> I've measured the 2nd anode voltage twice, with 2 different meters,
> one analog and one digital, both with 10 MOhm input impedance. In each
> case I got low answers, 7 kV and 13 kV. I really do know what I'm
> doing here, so I'm puzzled by the low readings and I can't explain
> them. I took the probe and one meter to work to check them and they
> checked out perfectly at 5 kV. My picture isn't as bright as I'd like,
> but it really doesn't seem like it could actually be down to half
> voltage or less. There's no blooming, either. Right now I'm going with
> operator error....
>
> I have tried different hor out (20LF6) hor osc (6U10) and dampers
> (19DQ6.) None improved the problem. I didn't swap in vert output tubes
> (10JA5) since the vertical seems to be fine. Those are the 4 tubes in
> this set.
>
> This is a hybrid set. The hor signal coming out of the 9-48 Duramodule
> measures 21 V p-p. Sam's says it should be 16 V but the Zenith manual
> says it should be 24 V. Swapping in another 9-48 doesn't help the
> problem. There are differences in the schematics shown in the 2
> manuals, specifically in the 24 V supply for the solid state modules.
> My modules are getting about 22.5 V, but that's one of the options
> that Sam's shows. That bus is dead quiet: less than 0.1 V p-p of
> ripple, exactly as it's supposed to be.
>
> It appears that some of these sets fed 22.5 V to the Duramodules and
> some supplied 24 V. I'm tempted to rewire this set to supply 24 V, but
> the fact is that it worked this way for 40 years, so that would be
> skipping over the real problem. Nevertheless, I'd be interested in
> hearing from those of you with real world experience about which
> version is actually better.
>
> So far, I've just been working from the top of the chassis, picking up
> test points that correspond to tube pins that I can get a DVM or scope
> probe on. Tomorrow I'll clear off the junk that's sitting on top of
> the set, flip it over, and dive into the belly. Yes, the first thing I
> plan to do is check for carbon resistors that have gone high. Unless I
> find the smoking gun that way, I'll then look at voltages at each of
> the test points shown in both the Sam's and Zenith manuals.
>
> One of the signal voltages I found late in the hor circuit was low, so
> I'm pretty sure the problem is somewhere in the 6U10 or 20LF6 circuit.
> With all the connections to the convergence and the HV, there's so
> much going on there that I'm really not sure about what parts can
> affect which other parts.
>
> I very much appreciate everyone who made suggestions. I'll try each
> one of them. I'm skilled at electronics, but I have little practical
> experience with TVs. It's good to get input from real experience.
>
> thanks,

Are you sure about that 10 meg load? That would way overload the EHT
supply. The Fluke EHT probe is around a GIG ohm load.

Why do you care about TV experience? Are you expecting a resurgence in
analog CRT standard def sets? It's good to know stuff but why this?

G²

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 8:43 pm
From: Jim Adney

On Jul 21, 9:26 pm, stratu...@yahoo.com wrote:

> Are you sure about that 10 meg load? That would way overload the EHT
> supply. The Fluke EHT probe is around a GIG ohm load.

The meter has 10 MOhm input impedance. The probe adds 990 MOhm to
that, for a total of 1 GOhm. That makes it a x100 probe. IIRC, the
Fluke probe is actually a x1000 probe.

> Why do you care about TV experience? Are you expecting a resurgence in
> analog CRT standard def sets? It's good to know stuff but why this?
>
> G²

I was just trying to express gratitude for those of you who have been
willing to donate your experience to help me out.

;-)

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Jul 21 2010 9:22 pm
From: Jim Adney

Okay, the problem has been solved. As usual, I'm embarrassed at how
long it took me to find it.

The key was in the FACT that the HV was low. It really was. There is a
HV adjust pot, but I had not tried it because it was quite hard to
access and I knew I had adjusted it carefully, years ago. Once I tried
it, to see what it would do, I found that I got no response for most
of the rotation, but at about 90% rotation the HV suddenly jumped from
~10 kV to ~23 kV. That pot was open near the end of its travel.

This was a 4 MOhm pot which applies a bit of pos input to the HOT grid
bias. Without this input, grid current tends to bias the HOT off. So I
had low HV and low hor sweep. Once I fixed that, things got a LOT
better.

It turns out that as the HV goes up, the hor sweep goes up slightly
faster, so that by the time you get to 20 kV, the picture fills the
screen. The vert deflection shrank as the HV came up, but I was able
to adjust it back up to fill the screen.

Unfortunately, I still can't get the HV to the 25-26 kV that this set
is supposed to have. I replaced a 27 kOhm resistor in the hor osc grid
circuit that had gone to 35 kOhm, but that didn't help. I tried
several 20LF6s and they all worked the same except for one which was
clearly worn out. I finally installed a 26LX6, which is also correct
for this set, and that gave me the same 22-24 kV that the others gave.
And the HV pot is still cranked all the way up.

Finally, I checked the DC bias on the HOT. The Zenith manual says it
should be -80 V, so I was expecting it to be lower. It's actually -65
V. So there must be something else wrong in that circuit.

At this point, I've got a working set that looks great, but I'm
troubled by the HV dilemma. I'd like to know what's wrong, so I can
fix it and turn the HV pot down a bit.

BTW, in this process I came across a component I've never seen before.
Zenith call it a "voltage dependent resistor" and doesn't give ANY
specs, just a Zenith part number. Sam's doesn't even try to offer any
subs. Any clue what this might be? The particular VDR in this circuit
is Zenith #63-5440. Anyone got one of this in stock? It just looks
like a big resistor with 2 wide color bands on it. A Google search
comes up with some places that seem to have these in stock. They seem
to be calling these varistors, which makes sense, but this would be
the first time I've seen a cylindrical, axial lead, varistor.

Thanks, everyone, for all your help.

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TOPIC: cheap wholesale Parmigiani Fleurier watch
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d2fc5e782caf08e1?hl=en
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: C Audio Pulse 2x 1100 watt amp
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c3528d48b1472472?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 12:13 am
From: "N_Cook"

Gareth Magennis <sound.service@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:urJ1o.2844$FM1.1896@hurricane...
>
>
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:i26v0g$l9b$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > Looks like all 4 off 1M , need replacing, all those matching
operational
> > position of R182.
> > Has 80 V in normal use over 1/3W 1Meg and used in dampish conditions is
> > enough to make it go high or even o/c., not removed it yet. In an area
of
> > circuit not easy to measure or even compare ch for ch. Hooking another
1M
> > across it is enough to give amp operation without disabling the DCsense
> > error protection.
> > Its this R that takes the central biasing section low at power up before
> > the
> > Tr25+C53 section becomes operational.
> >
> >
>
>
> You're a braver man that I am Mr Cook. I've seen 2 of these and decided
on
> both occasions not to touch it with a barge pole.
>
>
> Perhaps that's a sign of getting older and wiser. - some jobs you really
do
> need to refuse for your own personal well being.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Gareth.
>

At least the schema are around. Some notes in passing, you have to be
careful how you pick up that large pcb , by the heatsinks and front
metalwork not by the edge or rear as those large piercings make it weak.
Discharging the rectified mains DC cap of course. Maybe all component
oles( certainly the 4 off 1Meg Rs) are the size for power transistor legs or
IC-pin eyelets so although plated through holes , minor components like 1/3W
Rs have a lot of solder around the leads so libility to cracking I would
think.

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/768e1745d04e41e4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 12:33 am
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