sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 17 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair?hl=en

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TOPIC: Paralleled Amplifier Wiring
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/d586ede5490acff1?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 5:00 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> Regardless, if the output levels are closely matched, one amp /will
>> not/ pump current into the other. But to gain any increase in power,
>> you'd have to use a lower-impedance speaker.

> You are VERY WRONG on this.

Why? You haven't changed the output voltage. If the amps are solid state,
their source impedance is much lower than that of the load, so there
wouldn't be any significant increase in current flow (that I know).

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 6:04 am
From: Allodoxaphobia

On Wed, 21 Jul 2010 18:53:58 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

<- snippage->
>
> Assuming that both channels have the same output impedance, and the output
> levels are closely matched,

.. and, assuming both outputs are _exactly_ in phase,

> then (if the outputs are directly paralleled)
> there will be /no/ current flow from one channel into the other, ....

Jonesy

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 7:36 am
From: whit3rd

On Jul 21, 6:55 am, "j r powell" <nos...@invalid.xy> wrote:

> I have a small stereo amplifier which came with two tiny 4ohm 3watt speakers.
> I'd like to combine the two channels of the amp in order to drive one, slightly
> larger, 8ohm 4watt speaker.
> The amp is of the non-bridgeable type,

The power limit might not be the amplifier output stages,
but the common power supply. So, you'd just connect
to the left channel and ignore the other.

Alternately, you could transformer-couple and put the
left and right channel outputs in series (not parallel), to
get good drive into an 8 ohm speaker. Transformers,
though, aren't cheap. Doing this only gains you 3 dB,
it's scarcely worth the effort.

More efficient speakers (two of 'em, not one) is the
preferred solution if you don't like what you've got.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 11:15 pm
From: stratus46@yahoo.com

On Jul 22, 5:00 am, "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgee...@comcast.net>
wrote:
> >> Regardless, if the output levels are closely matched, one amp /
will
> >> not/ pump current into the other. But to gain any increase in
power,
> >> you'd have to use a lower-impedance speaker.
> > You are VERY WRONG on this.
>
> Why? You haven't changed the output voltage. If the amps are solid
state,
> their source impedance is much lower than that of the load, so
there
> wouldn't be any significant increase in current flow (that I know).

If the output voltage is _slightly_ not matched, each amp will attempt
to correct it and push large currents into each other. HEAT. BANG.

G²

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TOPIC: C Audio Pulse 2x 1100 watt amp
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 6:31 am
From: "N_Cook"

Not actually the 1meg failed it was the TO92 over the complementary 1meg
gone 35uA leaky, pulling the zero point upwards

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 5:45 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:i29h5a$m4p$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Not actually the 1meg failed it was the TO92 over the complementary 1meg
> gone 35uA leaky, pulling the zero point upwards
>
>

So, how did your lead-free lecture turn out last week ? Well received ? Did
you video it ?

Arfa

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 23 2010 12:21 am
From: "N_Cook"

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:aD52o.256076$vB5.100403@hurricane...
>
>
> "N_Cook" <diverse@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:i29h5a$m4p$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > Not actually the 1meg failed it was the TO92 over the complementary 1meg
> > gone 35uA leaky, pulling the zero point upwards
> >
> >
>
> So, how did your lead-free lecture turn out last week ? Well received ?
Did
> you video it ?
>
> Arfa
>

outline from the .ppt here
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/scicaf2.htm
interested enough to have 3/4 hour of Q&A afterwards.
Someone from one of the PbF exempted industries there saying they were
having horrendous problems specifying and actually obtaining lead-free-free
components , there is a lot of fraudulent specification paperwork around
apparently.

And someone else from gas-fitting, no problem there as such, they just
charge the customers £250 for a new controller board when it is just PbF
solder failings on the not so old previous board, subjected to normal
in-service conditions but too much heat for pbf.

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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 7:50 pm
From: "Mark Zacharias"

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:gwL1o.42479$AS4.26491@hurricane...
>
>
> "steventhomas42" <steventhomas42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:53f07156-fdc9-45d5-a54e-3586f23064d5@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> Back in November 2001, I posted a message to this group about my PD-
>> M551 and got the right answer on the first try:
>>
>> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/browse_thread/thread/547ab9dd5a0973cb/5a1a82b5a16e6477?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=steventhomas42#5a1a82b5a16e6477
>>
>> I acquired and installed that ribbon cab;e and used the CD changer for
>> a couple of more years, but it developed another quirk that I have not
>> taken the time to research until now. When you insert the 6-disc
>> cartridge and press play, it pulls in each disc, rejects it without
>> playing anything and moves to the next disc until it fails all of
>> them.
>>
>> I was under the impression that the new pickup cable I put in was
>> actually an improved cable over the original. Was I mistaken, and
>> will another cable repair the problem, or do I have a different
>> problem now?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Steve
>
> There are two very common problems on all of the Pioneer players from that
> era. First is the spindle motor. When a disc has loaded, does it spin ? If
> not, does it start if you 'help' it ? Second problem on ones with the deck
> mounted on top of the mech upside down, is the laser lens having fallen
> out of its carrier. Try gently shaking the player or tipping it around to
> see if you can hear anything rolling about. The lens can be re-attached,
> but it's a bit of a delicate job, and there are a couple of pitfalls to
> look out for. If it turns out to be either of these problems, post back,
> and one of us should be able to guide you through the repair process.
> FWIW, I think it is unlikely that you would have a problem again with the
> flexiprint cable.
>
> Arfa

Also, collapsed rubber insulators allow the disc to scrape while playing.
Very common, and causes skipping.

Mark Z.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 9:41 pm
From: steventhomas42

On Jul 22, 9:50 pm, "Mark Zacharias" <mark_zachar...@sbclobal.net>
wrote:
> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>
> news:gwL1o.42479$AS4.26491@hurricane...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "steventhomas42" <steventhoma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:53f07156-fdc9-45d5-a54e-3586f23064d5@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> >> Back in November 2001, I posted a message to this group about myPD->> M551and got the right answer on the first try:
>
> >>http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/browse_thread/t...
>
> >> I acquired and installed that ribbon cab;e and used the CD changer for
> >> a couple of more years, but it developed another quirk that I have not
> >> taken the time to research until now. When you insert the 6-disc
> >> cartridge and press play, it pulls in each disc, rejects it without
> >> playing anything and moves to the next disc until it fails all of
> >> them.
>
> >> I was under the impression that the new pickup cable I put in was
> >> actually an improved cable over the original. Was I mistaken, and
> >> will another cable repair the problem, or do I have a different
> >> problem now?
>
> >> Thanks,
>
> >> Steve
>
> > There are two very common problems on all of the Pioneer players from that
> > era. First is the spindle motor. When a disc has loaded, does it spin ? If
> > not, does it start if you 'help' it ? Second problem on ones with the deck
> > mounted on top of the mech upside down, is the laser lens having fallen
> > out of its carrier. Try gently shaking the player or tipping it around to
> > see if you can hear anything rolling about. The lens can be re-attached,
> > but it's a bit of a delicate job, and there are a couple of pitfalls to
> > look out for. If it turns out to be either of these problems, post back,
> > and one of us should be able to guide you through the repair process.
> > FWIW, I think it is unlikely that you would have a problem again with the
> > flexiprint cable.
>
> > Arfa
>
> Also, collapsed rubber insulators allow the disc to scrape while playing.
> Very common, and causes skipping.
>
> Mark Z.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It's not skipping because it never plays anything. The discs stay in
for about 5 seconds before they are returned to the cartridge and the
next disc is pulled.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 23 2010 12:15 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"Mark Zacharias" <mark_zacharias@sbclobal.net> wrote in message
news:4c490364$0$17883$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:gwL1o.42479$AS4.26491@hurricane...
>>
>>
>> "steventhomas42" <steventhomas42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:53f07156-fdc9-45d5-a54e-3586f23064d5@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>> Back in November 2001, I posted a message to this group about my PD-
>>> M551 and got the right answer on the first try:
>>>
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/browse_thread/thread/547ab9dd5a0973cb/5a1a82b5a16e6477?hl=en&lnk=gst&q=steventhomas42#5a1a82b5a16e6477
>>>
>>> I acquired and installed that ribbon cab;e and used the CD changer for
>>> a couple of more years, but it developed another quirk that I have not
>>> taken the time to research until now. When you insert the 6-disc
>>> cartridge and press play, it pulls in each disc, rejects it without
>>> playing anything and moves to the next disc until it fails all of
>>> them.
>>>
>>> I was under the impression that the new pickup cable I put in was
>>> actually an improved cable over the original. Was I mistaken, and
>>> will another cable repair the problem, or do I have a different
>>> problem now?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> There are two very common problems on all of the Pioneer players from
>> that era. First is the spindle motor. When a disc has loaded, does it
>> spin ? If not, does it start if you 'help' it ? Second problem on ones
>> with the deck mounted on top of the mech upside down, is the laser lens
>> having fallen out of its carrier. Try gently shaking the player or
>> tipping it around to see if you can hear anything rolling about. The lens
>> can be re-attached, but it's a bit of a delicate job, and there are a
>> couple of pitfalls to look out for. If it turns out to be either of these
>> problems, post back, and one of us should be able to guide you through
>> the repair process. FWIW, I think it is unlikely that you would have a
>> problem again with the flexiprint cable.
>>
>> Arfa
>
>
> Also, collapsed rubber insulators allow the disc to scrape while playing.
> Very common, and causes skipping.
>
> Mark Z.

Oh yeah. Forgot that one, Mark ! :-)

Arfa

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 23 2010 12:22 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"steventhomas42" <steventhomas42@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ffc7805b-4553-43a8-9df1-a1781b2a1967@l14g2000yql.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 22, 9:50 pm, "Mark Zacharias" <mark_zachar...@sbclobal.net>
> wrote:
>> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.da...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:gwL1o.42479$AS4.26491@hurricane...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > "steventhomas42" <steventhoma...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >news:53f07156-fdc9-45d5-a54e-3586f23064d5@x21g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> >> Back in November 2001, I posted a message to this group about myPD->>
>> >> M551and got the right answer on the first try:
>>
>> >>http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/browse_thread/t...
>>
>> >> I acquired and installed that ribbon cab;e and used the CD changer for
>> >> a couple of more years, but it developed another quirk that I have not
>> >> taken the time to research until now. When you insert the 6-disc
>> >> cartridge and press play, it pulls in each disc, rejects it without
>> >> playing anything and moves to the next disc until it fails all of
>> >> them.
>>
>> >> I was under the impression that the new pickup cable I put in was
>> >> actually an improved cable over the original. Was I mistaken, and
>> >> will another cable repair the problem, or do I have a different
>> >> problem now?
>>
>> >> Thanks,
>>
>> >> Steve
>>
>> > There are two very common problems on all of the Pioneer players from
>> > that
>> > era. First is the spindle motor. When a disc has loaded, does it spin ?
>> > If
>> > not, does it start if you 'help' it ? Second problem on ones with the
>> > deck
>> > mounted on top of the mech upside down, is the laser lens having fallen
>> > out of its carrier. Try gently shaking the player or tipping it around
>> > to
>> > see if you can hear anything rolling about. The lens can be
>> > re-attached,
>> > but it's a bit of a delicate job, and there are a couple of pitfalls to
>> > look out for. If it turns out to be either of these problems, post
>> > back,
>> > and one of us should be able to guide you through the repair process.
>> > FWIW, I think it is unlikely that you would have a problem again with
>> > the
>> > flexiprint cable.
>>
>> > Arfa
>>
>> Also, collapsed rubber insulators allow the disc to scrape while playing.
>> Very common, and causes skipping.
>>
>> Mark Z.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> It's not skipping because it never plays anything. The discs stay in
> for about 5 seconds before they are returned to the cartridge and the
> next disc is pulled.

Yes, but what Mark is saying, is that if they collapse badly enough, the
disc can 'catch' enough to stop it rotating at all, which gives you the 'no
play' condition. It's probably a bit confusing that you use the word "skip"
in your post's subject. So now you have the three commonest problems which
cause the 'no play' condition, as you describe, defined for you.

So, does the disc spin at all, or is the lens rolling around inside the
player ?

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Midiverb ii issues?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/aaedd7aef36420d1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 22 2010 10:16 pm
From: El Grillo

Hello,

I'm an new electronic technician TRYING to grasp a hold of my
troubleshooting skills.
I have two Midiverb 2's on my bench currently.

One I was able to repair by replaceing some bad Filter caps, but the
other is still giving me all the indicator diodes are lit and the 2
digit screen is dead.

I tested all caps with an ESR meter and all is good.
Noticed one small decoupling cap looked funky and replaced, but no
luck.
(I'm also a bit unsure if I replaced with the right cap. I had a few
104 film caps in the shop).

SO...I'm asking for a bit of help from you all, if willing.

Any idea where I should be looking?

Thanks in advice for any help you can send my way.

nicholas

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Zenith 25CC25 horizontal sweep problem
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f0f84fb8db596265?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Jul 23 2010 12:58 am
From: Mike WB2MEP

On Jul 22, 12:22 am, Jim Adney <jad...@vwtype3.org> wrote:
> Okay, the problem has been solved. As usual, I'm embarrassed at how
> long it took me to find it.
>
> The key was in the FACT that the HV was low. It really was. There is a
> HV adjust pot, but I had not tried it because it was quite hard to
> access and I knew I had adjusted it carefully, years ago. Once I tried
> it, to see what it would do, I found that I got no response for most
> of the rotation, but at about 90% rotation the HV suddenly jumped from
> ~10 kV to ~23 kV. That pot was open near the end of its travel.
>
> This was a 4 MOhm pot which applies a bit of pos input to the HOT grid
> bias. Without this input, grid current tends to bias the HOT off. So I
> had low HV and low hor sweep. Once I fixed that, things got a LOT
> better.
>
> It turns out that as the HV goes up, the hor sweep goes up slightly
> faster, so that by the time you get to 20 kV, the picture fills the
> screen. The vert deflection shrank as the HV came up, but I was able
> to adjust it back up to fill the screen.
>
> Unfortunately, I still can't get the HV to the 25-26 kV that this set
> is supposed to have. I replaced a 27 kOhm resistor in the hor osc grid
> circuit that had gone to 35 kOhm, but that didn't help. I tried
> several 20LF6s and they all worked the same except for one which was
> clearly worn out. I finally installed a 26LX6, which is also correct
> for this set, and that gave me the same 22-24 kV that the others gave.
> And the HV pot is still cranked all the way up.
>
> Finally, I checked the DC bias on the HOT. The Zenith manual says it
> should be -80 V, so I was expecting it to be lower. It's actually -65
> V. So there must be something else wrong in that circuit.
>
> At this point, I've got a working set that looks great, but I'm
> troubled by the HV dilemma. I'd like to know what's wrong, so I can
> fix it and turn the HV pot down a bit.
>
> BTW, in this process I came across a component I've never seen before.
> Zenith call it a "voltage dependent resistor" and doesn't give ANY
> specs, just a Zenith part number. Sam's doesn't even try to offer any
> subs. Any clue what this might be? The particular VDR in this circuit
> is Zenith #63-5440. Anyone got one of this in stock? It just looks
> like a big resistor with 2 wide color bands on it. A Google search
> comes up with some places that seem to have these in stock. They seem
> to be calling these varistors, which makes sense, but this would be
> the first time I've seen a cylindrical, axial lead, varistor.
>
> Thanks, everyone, for all your help.

Yeah, Zenith used those VDRs in various places in the horiz. sweep
circuits in their late 60's - early 70's tube sets. I had one that
caused a width problem similar to yours. I discovered the open VDR
when the width improved while I measured voltage at a certain point
with my DMM. From the schematic, I found my DMM was in parallel with a
VDR. If the 10 meg DMM input improved things, it must be open. That
one I was able to use a plain resistor for, I started with a few meg
ohms and went lower until the width was satisfactory.
Another Zenith had one in the HV regulator circuit that went open and
lost regulation. The HV was running around 30 kV on a 19" set. A
regular resistor did't work on that set and I had to get the correct
part.

It looks like www.moyerelectronics.com has a 63-5440 sub. in stock.

Mike WB2MEP

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