sci.electronics.repair - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

sci.electronics.repair
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 60/40 vs. 63/37 Solder
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/4620260930cd06a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 8:42 am
From: John Larkin

On 15 Jul 2010 08:04:55 GMT, John Doe <jdoe@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:

>none given.now (Joe) wrote:
>
>> Why are there these two very similar solders? Is there any
>> situation where one is better than the other?
>
>Dunno, but... If you do detail work, try water-soluble flux
>solder. You just wipe off the residue for a sparkling clean
>circuit.

And one that makes a great humidity sensor.

John

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 9:29 am
From: Smitty Two

In article <i1mtb8$8u4$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote:

> The only reason 60/40 was ever manufactured in the first place is that tin
> is more expensive than lead, so 63/37 solder costs more.

Cite, please? (and I don't mean a link to commodity prices)

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 10:31 am
From: "Robbie Hatley"

"Joe" wrote:

> I wonder if ... 60/40 might ever be better to use.

No.

For hand soldering, I recommend Sn63Pb37 wire solder with an activated
rosin flux core. Use thin solder, about 23AWG; it melts the faster, for less
chance of cold joints. For surface mount, use even thinner, about 28AWG.

Avoid organic or water-soluable flux unless you're going to wash the board
thoroughly after soldering.

Rosin flux can be removed with 99pct isopropyl alcohol ($1 a bottle at your
corner drug store). But frankly, I recommend NOT removing the rosin flux
scum. Leave it on; it's inert, airproof, waterproof, sweatproof, so it protects
the joint.

--
Been soldering stuff since 1973,
Robbie Hatley
lonewolf [[at]] well [[dot]] com

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 10:42 am
From: "William Sommerwerck"

>> The only reason 60/40 was ever manufactured in the first place is
>> that tin is more expensive than lead, so 63/37 solder costs more.

> Cite, please? (and I don't mean a link to commodity prices)

I can only cite "common sense". 63/37 has always been more-expensive than
60/40.

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 12:20 pm
From: George Herold

On Jul 15, 11:42 am, John Larkin
<jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
> On 15 Jul 2010 08:04:55 GMT, John Doe <j...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>
> >none given.now (Joe) wrote:
>
> >> Why are there these two very similar solders? Is there any
> >> situation where one is better than the other?
>
> >Dunno, but... If you do detail work, try water-soluble flux
> >solder. You just wipe off the residue for a sparkling clean
> >circuit.
>
> And one that makes a great humidity sensor.
>
> John

Yeah, My prototype of a board with several high meg resistors (up to 1
gig.) was put together by myself with old Kester "44" (rosin flux.)
Worked great. Production did a few with their favorite water based
flux... No good! Now I have to convince them to go back to the old
standard. The new ROHS fluxes seem to be even worse. I measured a
few meg ohms between pads that had been 'cleaned'.... NOT.

George H.

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 12:40 pm
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <7a307a68-f754-413e-8113-4b9d0ce7a236@c10g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, George Herold <ggherold@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jul 15, 11:42=A0am, John Larkin
><jjlar...@highNOTlandTHIStechnologyPART.com> wrote:
>> On 15 Jul 2010 08:04:55 GMT, John Doe <j...@usenetlove.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >none given.now (Joe) wrote:
>>
>> >> Why are there these two very similar solders? =A0Is there any
>> >> situation where one is better than the other? =A0
>>
>> >Dunno, but... If you do detail work, try water-soluble flux
>> >solder. You just wipe off the residue for a sparkling clean
>> >circuit.
>>
>> And one that makes a great humidity sensor.
>>
>> John
>
>
>Yeah, My prototype of a board with several high meg resistors (up to 1
>gig.) was put together by myself with old Kester "44" (rosin flux.)
>Worked great. Production did a few with their favorite water based
>flux... No good! Now I have to convince them to go back to the old
>standard. The new ROHS fluxes seem to be even worse. I measured a
>few meg ohms between pads that had been 'cleaned'.... NOT.
>

I had a lot of problems with high Z circuitry. Got under the pads.
Some boards I had to clean/dry 10 times. In the interim, some of the cleaner
I used got into some caps and started their own circuit mess.

greg

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 12:49 pm
From: David Eather

On 15/07/2010 5:54 PM, Joe wrote:
> Why are there these two very similar solders? Is there any situation
> where one is better than the other?
>
> I understand the eutectic nature of 63/37, and I wonder if/when 60/40
> might ever be better to use.
>
> --- Joe

PeterD mentioned the significant parameter in his post. because it is a
eutectic mixture 63/37 does not have "much of a plastic state" this
means it is more sensitive to movement in the joint while the solder is
cooling - if the connections are unstable it forms more dry joints. This
was important with point to point wiring but is now less important with
PCBs.

You can normally use either solder for any job but the "old timers"
experience would suggest 60/40 is the better choice for wiring front
panels, flying leads and the like and 63/37 would be better for heat
sensitive components.

(for the obnoxious who will claim there is no difference - please note
that those doing the jobs *did* find a difference and thought it
significant enough to bother about)

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 1:06 pm
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)

>Why are there these two very similar solders? Is there any situation
>where one is better than the other?
>
>I understand the eutectic nature of 63/37, and I wonder if/when 60/40
>might ever be better to use.

My understanding is that 60/40 has somewhat better wetting properties
than 63/37, at least with some contact materials. Some people prefer
it for that reason.

63/37 makes a sharp transition between liquid state and solid state at
a single, well-defined temperature. 60/40 goes through a transition
between these two states over a significant range of temperature - in
between the fully-solid and fully-liquid states it can have a somewhat
mushy texture. Some people feel that 60/40 brings with it a somewhat
higher risk of creating a "cold" solder joint (inadequate fusion with
the contact surfaces) if the joint is moved or stress while the solder
is dropping through its mushy-state temperature region.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 1:19 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> Because it is a eutectic mixture, 63/37 does not have "much
> of a plastic state". This means it is more [sic] sensitive to
> movement in the joint while the solder is cooling -- if the
> connections are unstable it forms more [sic] dry joints.

I don't what you meant to say, but what you did say is backwards. Eutectic
solder is less likely to produce a dry or crystallized joint.

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 2:35 pm
From: Jim Yanik

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in
news:i1nqh7$7qt$1@news.eternal-september.org:

>> Because it is a eutectic mixture, 63/37 does not have "much
>> of a plastic state". This means it is more [sic] sensitive to
>> movement in the joint while the solder is cooling -- if the
>> connections are unstable it forms more [sic] dry joints.
>
> I don't what you meant to say, but what you did say is backwards.
> Eutectic solder is less likely to produce a dry or crystallized joint.
>
>
>

I agree;
the eutectic joint solidifies faster and thus less likely to move while the
solder is still "plastic".

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Valve/tube, A/R fault
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/51967f830b2ca3c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 8:50 am
From: Meat Plow

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 11:20:03 +0100, N_Cook wrote:

> Well that is what Avo calls it, I've never come across one before. ECC83
> with curious cyclic swirling breaking-surf whitish-noise and clicks.
> Putting on Avo 160 tester showed <>short in A/R setting, I've never had
> before, A/R here stands for cold checking Anodes To Remaining
> electrodes. DVM cold resistance checking pin to pin showed about 9K
> between an anode and its grid. I will replace it but is there any point
> in blasting with some high voltage to vaporize whatever is bridging, for
> a known unreliable/short-term spare. I'm aware that a valve with leaky C
> to H, then running the valve with 10 or 12V on the heaters insted of
> 6.3V so they glow like bulbs for a few seconds, will knock back the
> bridging deposit for a few months or even years.

Used to do that with a TV CRT rejuvenator. It had a specific function to
remove shorts. Sometimes worked, sometimes didn't.

--
Altopia.com $12/m 10 unlimited connections

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Diode symbol confusion
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c797e2c1bcaa92d5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 8:53 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:i1n54b$9pf$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> What does the symbol mean with 2 barbs to the bar...?
>
> It's supposed to look something like the letter Z -- hence, a Zener diode.
>
>

I have seen the two barbs being each at an angle to the horizontal bar,
representing a zener, and the two barbs perpendicular to the bar,
representing a Schottky diode. Schottky diodes also seen as the more
elaborate curl at each end of the bar, as shown in the Wiki reference.

Arfa

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 9:17 am
From: Meat Plow

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:53:04 +0100, Arfa Daily wrote:

> "William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:i1n54b$9pf$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> What does the symbol mean with 2 barbs to the bar...?
>>
>> It's supposed to look something like the letter Z -- hence, a Zener
>> diode.
>>
>>
>>
> I have seen the two barbs being each at an angle to the horizontal bar,
> representing a zener, and the two barbs perpendicular to the bar,
> representing a Schottky diode. Schottky diodes also seen as the more
> elaborate curl at each end of the bar, as shown in the Wiki reference.
>
> Arfa

Shotts look more like an S for an obvious reason :)

--
Altopia.com $12/m 10 unlimited connections

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Soundcraft Spirit Folio F1 mixer ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c171dc39766fe377?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 9:14 am
From: "Arfa Daily"

Anyone by any chance got any schematics for this ? I've tried all the usual
freebie sources, but without luck. Couple of places are offering them for
sale, but owners don't want to spend a lot on the repair, so I'm reluctant
to go down that route.

Problem is fairly straightforward, and is around the final mixdown / master
area, so that's the bit that I need a schematic for. Buried down between the
master sliders, are two s.m. dual opamps. Outputs are equal at the two
halves of one of them, but one side is low at the other. Around these two
opamps, the area is littered with gnat's-bollock-sized s.m. resistors, and
I'm pretty sure that one of these is o/c or high (it's not the opamp
itself - I changed it just in case) but because of the awkwardness of the
location and the size of the R's, it's a might difficult to see what's
connected to where, or to 'buzz' them to the IC pins. It's one of those jobs
that 'feels' as if it would resolve in a few minutes, with the benefit of a
schematic of the area :-)

Ta all !

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: See Hot Sexy Star KAJOL Latest Sex Videos In All Angles.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/f91c8af461ef065e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 9:20 am
From: Angelina Jolie

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http://ukcitygirls.co.cc

Due to high sex content, i have hidden the videos in an image. in
that
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unknown SM 5-pin device.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/96d26a26d61e6bb7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 10:49 am
From: "Robbie Hatley"

Greetings, group. I'm trying to identify a surface mount device on some
boards I'm repairing, but not having much luck.

The device is a small black plastic rectangular surface-mount device,
about 1.5mm x 2.5mm in size.

The pins are in a 5-pin DIP arrangement (basically a 6-pin DIP with pin 5
missing, leaving just pins 1,2,3,4,6).

The markings on the device include "T1|3", where I'm assuming the third
character is a vertical bar, though it's possible it might be an upper-case
letter "i", or a lower-case letter "L". There's a band on the pins 1/6 end,
and 3 small square marks near pins 2,3,5.

I'm assuming this is some sort of IC rather than a discrete component,
because the board manufacturer has designated it "U22" (rather than,
say, "Q22" or "D22").

Functionally, it seems to be processing a signal and feeding it into
the input side of an optoisolator, which then gets fed to a microprocessor.

Any clues on what this is, or how to go about finding out? Searching
Google, Arrow, Mouser, Digikey have proven unfruitful. I'm stumped.

(Nope, I can't ask the board manufacturer about it; they consider that
"proprietary information". Basically I'm trying to "reverse engineer"
the board and make a partial schematic of it.)

--
Cheers,
Robbie Hatley
lonewolf [[at]] well [[dot]] com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 11:39 am
From: PlainBill47@yahoo.com

It's only a little help, but the package sounds like a SOT23-5.

PlainBill

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:49:25 -0700, "Robbie Hatley"
<see.my.sig@for.my.contact.info> wrote:

>
>Greetings, group. I'm trying to identify a surface mount device on some
>boards I'm repairing, but not having much luck.
>
>The device is a small black plastic rectangular surface-mount device,
>about 1.5mm x 2.5mm in size.
>
>The pins are in a 5-pin DIP arrangement (basically a 6-pin DIP with pin 5
>missing, leaving just pins 1,2,3,4,6).
>
>The markings on the device include "T1|3", where I'm assuming the third
>character is a vertical bar, though it's possible it might be an upper-case
>letter "i", or a lower-case letter "L". There's a band on the pins 1/6 end,
>and 3 small square marks near pins 2,3,5.
>
>I'm assuming this is some sort of IC rather than a discrete component,
>because the board manufacturer has designated it "U22" (rather than,
>say, "Q22" or "D22").
>
>Functionally, it seems to be processing a signal and feeding it into
>the input side of an optoisolator, which then gets fed to a microprocessor.
>
>Any clues on what this is, or how to go about finding out? Searching
>Google, Arrow, Mouser, Digikey have proven unfruitful. I'm stumped.
>
>(Nope, I can't ask the board manufacturer about it; they consider that
>"proprietary information". Basically I'm trying to "reverse engineer"
>the board and make a partial schematic of it.)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Telephone wiring 101.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/c2d228c87bcf04bd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 10:57 am
From: greenpjs@neo.rr.com

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 07:35:51 -0700, "David Farber"
<farberbear.unspam@aol.com> wrote:

>AC Me wrote:
>> On Jul 14, 9:02 pm, "David Farber" <farberbear.uns...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> I moved into a new house and have new voip phone service via the
>>> local cable company. The way it's configured is the cable from
>>> outside goes into the modem, model number Arris TM502G, then the
>>> output of the modem, labeled Tel 1/2 goes into a telephone line
>>> splitter, then the single ended part of that splitter, goes into a
>>> telephone wall jack which is supposed to feed the rest of the house.
>>> The third connection of the splitter goes to my Uniden portable
>>> phone system, model EXAI3428, which I will call system #1. It works
>>> fine.
>>>
>>> To avoid confusion with another Uniden system, a model EXAI5688-3,
>>> I'll call that system #2. I want to hook up system #2 at a different
>>> wall jack in another room. When I did, there was no dial tone.
>>> System #2 was working last week in another home so I am fairly
>>> certain that it was ok. I have a telephone line polarity checker
>>> probably better known as, "The Fox," made by Triplett Corporation.
>>> The l.e.d. lights up when I plug it into the back of the modem. When
>>> I remove the telephone line from system #1 and plug in the Fox into
>>> the splitter, it doesn't light up. I disassembled the wall jack and
>>> sure enough, if I hook up the red test lead to the green wire and
>>> vice-versa for the green test lead, the l.e.d. lights up. Question
>>> 1, does it make sense that system #1 can work if the polarity is
>>> reversed? I removed the Fox and plugged system #2 in the same jack.
>>> System #2 didn't work. Then I reversed the red and green wires in
>>> the wall jack and tried system #2 in the wall jack in the other
>>> room. Still no dial tone. So I disassembled the wires in that wall
>>> jack. The wires were so snug that I could only pull it out from the
>>> wall about 1 inch. I looked behind the jack and saw that the phone
>>> wires were the old style red, green, yellow, black wiring. When I
>>> reversed the wires in the wall jack back in the room where system #1
>>> was, I noticed the wires were a white/blue pair. I then plugged the
>>> Fox into a jack in a third room. The Fox lit up. I plugged in system
>>> #2 into the third room and got a dial tone. Question #2, is there a
>>> way to get the red and green wires in the wall jack that isn't
>>> working tied into the blue/white pair at the outside box? And
>>> finally, why does the telephone line splitter reverse the polarity?
>>> I tried another splitter and it did the same thing.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your reply.
>>> --
>>> David Farber
>>> Los Osos, CA
>>
>> Hi David.
>>
>> Polarity shouldn't matter, as far as I know. Many telephone leads have
>> the wires reversed. I discovered this many years ago when trying to
>> use off-the-shelf telephone leads for a 1-Wire cabling system. 1-Wire
>> needs 'straight-through' wiring while 'phones seem to work with either
>> straight-through or crossed. If you look at the 'phone leads that you
>> have on-hand (e.g. those leads that connect the 'phone to the wall
>> socket) I would be surprised if some of these were not crossed.
>> One other point to bear in mind is loading. Each device loads the
>> telephone network, if I might describe it as such. As far as I know a
>> standard telephone end-use system is designed to work with a load of
>> up to four units where a unit is a theoritical 'phone load. Any
>> individual telephonic device may have a load of several units. For
>> instance a particular 'phone (perhaps with fax an/or answering
>> machine) might provide a load of 2 units. The loads of all 'phone type
>> devices need to be added to get the total load. It is easy to forget
>> modems in PCs and the like. Just something to bear in mind should you
>> get your wiring sorted out.
>>
>> Take care.
>>
>> Mike
>
>Hi Mike,
>
>As I pointed out, the polarity did matter because system #2 did not work
>until I reversed the wires in the phone jack. Regarding the load on the
>line, does a portable phone system which has its own power supply place the
>same amount of load on the line as a stand-alone telephone?
>
>Thanks for your reply.
Hi David,
I tried posting yesterday, but never saw my post. To answer your
recent question, only the designers know the load placed on the line
by a phone. However, they usually list it somewhere as the REN or
ringer equivalency number. 1.0 is the same as an old fashioned phone.
Newer phones are often less than 1.0. The ringer is the only thing
that matters when the phone is not being used to talk.

What I said yesterday that you may or may not have seen is the thing
you call a splitter is probably not a splitterat all. If the jack on
the modem allows for 2 lines, they probably use the middle two wires
for line one (often associated with red and green wires) and the outer
two wires for line two (often yellow and black). The "splitter" thing
connects the middle two wires from the jack to the middle two of one
output (line 1). It then connects the outer two wires to the middle
two of the other output (line 2). If you want multiple phones on one
line, only use the one output of the "splitter" thing. Get another
dual adapter to connect multiple phone to that one output.

Pat

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Repairing an expensive speaker
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8fc3fa133c100ac4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 11:55 am
From: zekfrivo@zekfrivolous.com (GregS)

In article <ilnb361h0p8jm7btj7jolui1l27cf5becn@4ax.com>, John <Ya@you.com> wrote:
>I am repairing two 15" Tannoys of the Gold series. A $5k unit if we
>could get them.
>
>Un oscillation in a cassette deck I was using, produced a very lowed
>sound that damaged the speakers.
>
>One of them has 6 turns of the voice coil, lose and can be glued back.
>
>On the old days I used to repair speakers using the same type of glue
>that was used on the assembling of models. A type of glue that use
>acetone as a solvent.
>Today we have better types of glue like epoxy and I believe the harder
>the glue the better the performance, the disadvantage is that using
>epoxy will make a future repair very difficult.
>
>Any suggestions ?
>
>The coil on the second speaker is open and in very bad shape. I am
>looking for a replacement.
>
>Tannoy does not carry parts for this type of speaker but there is a
>place in England that will sell me a cone assembly for about $300 usd.

I noticed Parts Express also does reconing. Pretty cheap.

greg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gm auto radio swap problems
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/e773cc257f7237ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 11:56 am
From: klem kedidelhopper

I have been trying to do something that used to be so simple but in
today's world it seems has become an exercise in futility. I own a
2000 Chevrolet express van which has a factory AM/FM radio installed.
I would like to replace it with an equivalent AM/FM/cassette unit. I
got the first one from the junk yard, installed it and found that the
only thing it would do is display 12:00 for about 3 seconds each time
power on is attempted. The second one was an AM/FM/cassette/CD radio.
It does the same thing and in addition it has a small red blinking led
on the front panel which blinks continuously. These radios are
reasonably priced at 25.00 and 40.00 which is a far cry from dealer
price for a new one. The dealer tells me that junk yard radios will
not work as they go into theft mode as soon as you remove them from
the vehicle. If that is so why didn't my original radio do this when I
removed it and reinstalled it numerous times? And what about when the
battery goes completely dead? They tell me that these radios have to
be programmed for the vehicle that they are going into. Is this true
or are they just trying to get 85.00 out of me for the programming? If
there is in fact a compatibility problem can I reset the radio myself?
I'm ready to pull the radio/cassete out of the 1990 I have sitting in
the woods, custom install it in my 2000 and do away with all this
bullshit. Can anyone please advise me further on this? thanks, Lenny

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 4:21 pm
From: Jamie

klem kedidelhopper wrote:

> I have been trying to do something that used to be so simple but in
> today's world it seems has become an exercise in futility. I own a
> 2000 Chevrolet express van which has a factory AM/FM radio installed.
> I would like to replace it with an equivalent AM/FM/cassette unit. I
> got the first one from the junk yard, installed it and found that the
> only thing it would do is display 12:00 for about 3 seconds each time
> power on is attempted. The second one was an AM/FM/cassette/CD radio.
> It does the same thing and in addition it has a small red blinking led
> on the front panel which blinks continuously. These radios are
> reasonably priced at 25.00 and 40.00 which is a far cry from dealer
> price for a new one. The dealer tells me that junk yard radios will
> not work as they go into theft mode as soon as you remove them from
> the vehicle. If that is so why didn't my original radio do this when I
> removed it and reinstalled it numerous times? And what about when the
> battery goes completely dead? They tell me that these radios have to
> be programmed for the vehicle that they are going into. Is this true
> or are they just trying to get 85.00 out of me for the programming? If
> there is in fact a compatibility problem can I reset the radio myself?
> I'm ready to pull the radio/cassete out of the 1990 I have sitting in
> the woods, custom install it in my 2000 and do away with all this
> bullshit. Can anyone please advise me further on this? thanks, Lenny
Yes, its true.. The dealers are suppose to have tools or know how to
do this which allows the radio to work.. You most likely have a CAN
network or something like that in your car that is talking to the
computer. Most likely a process that isn't in your manual to force
the Radio to work with your cars computer..

You'd be better off just putting in a after market..

==============================================================================
TOPIC: audio attenuator headphone to line
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/b3898a02f147d683?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 12:29 pm
From: "tg"

"Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:79t%n.190989$vB5.75730@hurricane...

> I'm glad what I said helped you to get a result that you were pleased
> with, but I'm a little confused. Are you sure that the resistor values
> that you've stated are correct, and the bottom one wasn't 4.7k rather than
> 47k ? <snip>

nope, just checked and the bottom resistor is 47K.
in your previous post you did say 'a ratio of 2 : 1 might be more
appropriate,' and you were right, this - as it turned out - is a 2:1 ratio.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 4:22 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"tg" <nospam@nospameverever.net> wrote in message
news:4c3f61e5$0$12168$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
>
>
> "Arfa Daily" <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
> news:79t%n.190989$vB5.75730@hurricane...
>
>> I'm glad what I said helped you to get a result that you were pleased
>> with, but I'm a little confused. Are you sure that the resistor values
>> that you've stated are correct, and the bottom one wasn't 4.7k rather
>> than
>> 47k ? <snip>
>
> nope, just checked and the bottom resistor is 47K.
> in your previous post you did say 'a ratio of 2 : 1 might be more
> appropriate,' and you were right, this - as it turned out - is a 2:1
> ratio.

Not quite. As stated that your series resistor is the lower value of 22k,
and the shunt one is the higher value of 47k, this is a 1 : 2 ratio ...

Still, if it does the job that you were looking for, not worth getting
bogged down in maths and definitions :-)

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PowerWare 9110 UPS schematic??
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/8b7a20f044b334c4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 3:02 pm
From: PeterD

On Thu, 15 Jul 2010 14:35:13 +0300, "Jack"
<jankroPOISTA@dnainternet.net> wrote:

>I have this UPS that had dead batteries, so I put in fresh new one's all
>charged up.
>I plugged it in and red ALARM led lights up, the fan turns on and batteries
>are being charged up, but it will not turn on, nothing comes out of the
>outlets.
>All fuses are OK, nothing appears to be burned.
>
>Anyone got any idea of what to do next or anyone have schematic?
>
>-Jan
>Finland
>
>
>
>--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---

Do you have a manual for this unit? My PowerWare UPS has a specific
startup sequence that must be followed to power it up. Otherwise it
just charges the batteries and waits.

Also check Eaton's customer support pages. They (Eaton) provide
excellent support, though you may have to register the unit to get
specific answers to your questions.

Also, do you have a computer connected to it (if it supports a
computer interface)? is that giving any info?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Is it just me or...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/406a9aeafad00ad9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Jul 15 2010 4:15 pm
From: Jamie

Robert Baer wrote:

> Jamie wrote:
>
>> JW wrote:
>>
>>> So there you are, working on something that you don't have any
>>> schematics
>>> for; (in this case a Datron 1281 8.5 digit DMM) This one wouldn't power
>>> up. Poking around I noticed some (TTL) circuits were not getting +5VDC.
>>> Traced it back through a three terminal linear regulator to it's AC
>>> input.
>>> Hmmm... Only getting about 5.5VAC, not enough there. Isolate the AC
>>> output
>>> from the transformer to make sure it wasn't a loading issue; it's not.
>>> Gets to about 5.8VAC. This unit has two toroid transformers, and the one
>>> I've traced the problem to has 8 wires on the secondary and another 8 on
>>> the primary (sheesh)
>>>
>>> I have no idea what the primary voltages should be (As it turns out,
>>> about
>>> 16VAC. Weird!)
>>>
>>> BUT, suddenly I hear a metallic sounding "tick!" and the unit begins
>>> running. (I quickly measure the primaries and note the voltages JIC.)
>>> sounds a bit like a relay, but there's nothing like that in any of the
>>> power supplies (there's a number of them) that I can see. Figuring an
>>> intermittent somewhere I begin jiggling connectors, tapping around
>>> with a
>>> screwdriver handle, etc. Nothing. Meter keeps working.
>>>
>>> Cold blasts from freeze spray, Heat gun, etc. Nothing.
>>> Turn it off for an hour and back on repeating what I did above. Still
>>> working.
>>>
>>> Turn it off for a day and back on. Wash, rinse, repeat. still working
>>> perfectly.
>>>
>>> Things like this seem to happen to me often. Is it just me, or do you
>>> have
>>> faults like this that drive you nuts?
>>>
>>> I don't suppose anyone might have any schematics for this meter, would
>>> they? I think at some point Datron sold off to Wavetek then Fluke
>>> ended up
>>> with it, as the user manual is available from Fluke.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>>
>> Electrolytics will intermit like this. Change all that are in the
>> power supply section.
>>
>>
> Yah, i have run into wierd operation / no operation; back and forth;
> more than enough to drive anyone nuts (maybe that is why i am so weird?)_.
> At one place i worked, there was this HP programmable automatic
> tester, tied to (an added) keypunch for data logging.
> Worked for months then stopped working.
> Started signal tracing with a VOM starting at the keypunch.
> Back in those dayz that is all the was, but i would have chosen to use
> a VOM over a DVM so i would not miss data pulses.
> Got a few feet from the keypunch solenoids to input connector and then
> (no sound) it worked; for weeks.
> Next time it failed, i checked the cable from keypunch toward the ATE,
> but it immediately started working as i started the cable test AT the
> keypunch; worked for weeks.
> Next time, i started with the interface circuitry at the ATE; you
> guessed it - 15 seconds later it worked; yup! for weeks.
> And so on; testing creeping to the middle: the cable.
> Never got there; was about two inches away from the cable connector at
> the ATE the last time i tested the beast.
> Never failed again.
>
> All you can do, is leave the damn thing alone as long as it is
> working, ignore the hassles, forget them and go on.
> But to keep Mister Justin Case mollified, do not totally forget what
> you did so that you can pickup the testing gauntlet where ever you
> previously left off.

We had a coil in a reversing relay that would intermittently not work
and cause the mechanical drive train to push off in never never land,
thus damaging some very expensive rotor cones. It finally got bad enough
at one point where we were able to fine it.

It turns out that this "GE" reversing contact assembly used pushed on
spades in side to make it's wire termination to the coil instead of
soldering them!>. And you had to unassembled parts not intended to be
unassembled to find this. The mechanical vibration of the unit would
cause a connection issue and not switch on the coil for the reverse
operation when needed... The other controls would just keep cranking the
motor trying to find the correct location when it was actually pushing
it out of sight! And no, there were no limiting sensors in this machine ;)

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