sci.electronics.repair@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Intel "asked" to sell faulty chips - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/cf4be05bbe67d3b2?hl=en
* Deoxit on "pots"? - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a3f743a7dd8ff4bf?hl=en
* SIMPLE HACK TO GET $2000 FROM YOUR PAYPAL. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/dbf98f47836f4132?hl=en
* What is the fifth transistor likely for? - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/cbdab6f7f9577f6d?hl=en
* And today's little bit of time-wasting lead-free nonsense ... - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6de2b1df275b761d?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Intel "asked" to sell faulty chips
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/cf4be05bbe67d3b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 3:41 pm
From: Sylvia Else

On 9/02/2011 5:40 AM, bob urz wrote:
> http://www.mbtmag.com/Content.aspx?id=1986
>
> bob

Well, a chip is only faulty if it does not meet its specification, or
will have an abnormally high failure rate if used within its specification.

So if Intel changes the spec on these chips, sells them for use within
the revised spec, and the chips won't then fail at an abnormal rate,
then they are not faulty.

Sylvia.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 6:18 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:40:54 -0600, bob urz <sound@inetnebr.com>
wrote:

>http://www.mbtmag.com/Content.aspx?id=1986
>bob

Intel wiggle-around (from Newegg):
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJcE2alQPvY>
<http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/682006.aspx>
Basically, ports 0 and 1 are fine (at 6Mbits/sec).
Ports 2 thru 5 (at 3Mbits/sec) are defective and should not be used.
No software or firmware fix possible.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 6:46 pm
From: Jeff Liebermann

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 18:18:50 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 12:40:54 -0600, bob urz <sound@inetnebr.com>
>wrote:
>
>>http://www.mbtmag.com/Content.aspx?id=1986
>>bob
>
>Intel wiggle-around (from Newegg):
><http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJcE2alQPvY>
><http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/682006.aspx>
>Basically, ports 0 and 1 are fine (at 6Mbits/sec).
>Ports 2 thru 5 (at 3Mbits/sec) are defective and should not be used.
>No software or firmware fix possible.

How to tell if you have a problem (from Intel):
<http://www.intel.com/consumer/products/processors/chipset.htm>
and Gigabyte:
<http://www.techspot.com/news/42293-gigabyte-releases-sandy-bridge-sata-checker-utility.html>

Gigabyte motherboards:
<http://gigabytedaily.blogspot.com/2011/02/intel-6-series-chipset-issues-q.html>

AsusTek motherboards:
<http://service.asus.com/notice/>

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com jeffl@cruzio.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 10:26 pm
From: Fred

bob urz <sound@inetnebr.com> wrote in news:iis2nv$2kn$1@speranza.aioe.org:

> http://www.mbtmag.com/Content.aspx?id=1986

"Computers can be designed in a way that avoids the problem."

Yeah, only buy ones that have AMD processors...hee hee.

Can you imagine that Toyota is doing this to family cars?.....(c;]

What about Boeing?

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 10:37 pm
From: Fred

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:04u3l6hd7oislvm3r7chnjoupt6f47enjl@4ax.com:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJcE2alQPvY

Of course, the net responds......with a new Hitler video......

Hilarious, unless you own Intel stock or are involved in the upcoming
engineer PURGE....(c;]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yEQSX4biR4

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 10:39 pm
From: Fred

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in
news:flv3l6lrqskh7hqkoqmlc8hahd2suqdto1@4ax.com:

> How to tell if you have a problem

Your only problem is to identify the board in your computer for the next 8
years until all the defective boards have been dumped by the
discounters.....

Then, the problem becomes THEIR problem as you RETURN THE JUNK for a full
refund......or else.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Deoxit on "pots"?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/a3f743a7dd8ff4bf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 3:53 pm
From: David Nebenzahl

On 2/8/2011 9:36 AM Fred spake thus:

> Decades ago, I met an old organ repair technician at a Roland tech
> seminar to become a certified Roland repair station. Most of the rest of
> the participants were much younger than us, so we gravitated together and
> had lunch.
>
> I was spending a fortune each year buying products like DeOxit to clean
> organ controls, the thousands of metal to metal contacts before
> everything became conductive rubber. Talking about the price of this
> stuff, which would make you think a pharmaceutical company produced it in
> a lab, he said something to me that simply shocked me.
>
> "Hell, you're wasting your money on all that crap. I've been cleaning
> hifi, PA and organ contacts with WD40, which is very cheap and easy to
> find without going to the most expensive electronic repair company and
> paying their exhorbitant prices. I've been doing it for lots of years
> with no returns or complaints. I think because it leaves a lube residue
> on anything it touches the contacts stayed cleaner because they weren't
> exposed to the moisture in the air."

While not the same application, I've had good luck also using WD-40, or
at least WD-40-like substances on pots.

Someone gave me a 3/8" variable-speed drill that had a flaky speed
control. Since it was a freebie, I thought what the hell, sprayed the
control with some stuff I had for lube jobs (something called "EZ-Lube"
that I picked up several years ago, similar to WD-40 but a little better).

That drill works fine still, and is my go-to drill. So no need to use
that expen$ive cleaning product.

--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 4:42 pm
From: dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt)

> "Hell, you're wasting your money on all that crap. I've been cleaning
> hifi, PA and organ contacts with WD40, which is very cheap and easy to
> find without going to the most expensive electronic repair company and
> paying their exhorbitant prices. I've been doing it for lots of years
> with no returns or complaints. I think because it leaves a lube residue
> on anything it touches the contacts stayed cleaner because they weren't
> exposed to the moisture in the air."

Well, let's see.

WD-40 is basically petroleum oil, diluted with a mixture of more
volatile hydrocarbons (the current MSDS says "Aliphatic hydrocarbon"
and "LVP aliphatic hydrocarbon", and I believe older versions said
"Stoddard solvent"). There's some carbon dioxide as a pressurizer,
and some surfactant. It was originally designed as a penetrating oil
and a moisture-barrier, not primarily as a lubricant.

Using it as a contact-and-control cleaner does seem to be a popular
use. It would probably do a decent job as a flush-out (thanks to the
volatile hydrocarbons and the CO2) and would leave a surface barrier
of petroleum oil on the contact surfaces (which would reduce wear and
perhaps act as an oxygen and moisture barrier). I doubt that it has
any substantial ability to strip oxide and tarnish off of the
contacts, though... it seems as if it'd be rather chemically inert.

I've had some people say that the oils in WD-40 can become somewhat
gummy over time, and thus might attract and hold dust, and thus cause
re-contamination in the future.

As to DeOxIt - the ingredients list is proprietary, and I'm not sure
that anyone outside the company is certain of what's in it. However,
it appears to be similar to the "Cramolin Red" product, and I've read
articles which strongly suggest that this is oleic acid, diluted in a
solvent/carrier of some sort. Metal workers (e.g. watch- and
clock-makers) used to use a dilution of oleic acid in acetone or
naptha as a gentle-but-effective cleaner for brass and copper, so this
would make sense.

Cramolin used to (and perhaps still does) come in a matched-pair set
of bottles - a "red" formula for cleaning the contacts, and a "blue"
formula for an after-treatment and preservative. The instructions
recommended *not* to leave the "red" formula on the contacts after
cleaning... and since oleic acid can have some long-term corrosive
effects on certain metals, this could make sense. I think I read that
the "blue" Cramolin was simply a lubricant and partial oxygen barrier
(somebody suggested palm oil was involved) which would not have
long-term ill effects.

I don't think I'd use WD-40 as a cleaner and residual treatment (due
to its possible tendency to gum up), *or* leave DeOxIt on the contacts
long-term (due to possible active effects from the active ingredients).

A three-step process might be best:

- Flush and clean the control using DeOxIt (or a 10% dilution of
oleic acid in naptha or in a nonflammable and generally-
considered-safe chlorinated solvent).

- Flush out the residues (straight naptha or other solvent)

- Lubricate with a light, high-quality, stable hydrocarbon oil or
grease... maybe Fader Lube, or perhaps sewing machine or
watchmaker's oil. An oil could be diluted in a suitable solvent to
allow a suitably-small amount to be applied evenly.

--
Dave Platt <dplatt@radagast.org> AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 10:13 pm
From: Fred

GS <zekor@comcast.net> wrote in news:77d6df9a-ff2d-4a31-b045-43308597e734
@c10g2000vbv.googlegroups.com:

> If you like WD-40 you will LOVE CRC 2-26
>
> greg
>
>

Bought a couple of cases of CRC at a hamfest when EPA banned it for CFCs...

Most of the cans leaked propellant before I could get to use it....useless.

Some of them leaked product with the propellant, not sure how. Good thing
the cans were in the box. CRC is far more expensive than WD40 which works
great. Does the cheap price cause you to resist using it?

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 10:20 pm
From: Fred

dplatt@radagast.org (Dave Platt) wrote in news:ih4928-a76.ln1
@radagast.org:

> I don't think I'd use WD-40 as a cleaner and residual treatment (due
> to its possible tendency to gum up), *or* leave DeOxIt on the contacts
> long-term (due to possible active effects from the active ingredients).
>
>

I'll put your mind at ease. It's simply not true. Expression pedal pots
in old organs are run CONSTANTLY up and down by the organists foot the
whole time it's being played, especially in spinet organs with one octave
of pedals for only the left foot. They pump those volume level pedals
even fast to get Leslie-like effects. The pots are the sealed, heavy use
types in "some" organs. Others, they're just pots with specially made-
for-that-model shaft lenghts that lock to a plate to keep them spinning
around pumped too hard. They all go through hell if the organist is
halfway decent.

I sprayed WD 40 into those sealed pots by removing the shell 10, 20, 30
years ago! They're still pumping them! Many of them, I never heard from
again and only checked the pots when I was fixing other problems with the
organs having their keys beaten off!

Not a single one of those pots was all gummed up with WD40 in all those
years. It's bunk.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SIMPLE HACK TO GET $2000 FROM YOUR PAYPAL.
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/dbf98f47836f4132?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 4:59 pm
From: Hot Hot

How to get $2000 from your Paypal account monthly.You see at
http://182newvideos.co.cc

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is the fifth transistor likely for?
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/cbdab6f7f9577f6d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 5:10 pm
From: "William Sommerwerck"

> There shouldn't be a need to compensate for temps in
> something that doesn't put out a lot of wattage in the
> first place.

Not so -- not for germanium transistors, anyway, which were very
temperature-sensitive. Look at the schematic for any early transistor
radio -- there's a diode or thermistor in the output stage.

I was the first to suggest temperature compensation -- but also pointed out
it was unlikely.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 5:37 pm
From: Meat Plow

On Tue, 08 Feb 2011 17:10:20 -0800, William Sommerwerck wrote:

>> There shouldn't be a need to compensate for temps in something that
>> doesn't put out a lot of wattage in the first place.
>
> Not so -- not for germanium transistors,

Grow up Bill. Poster said circa 1998. How many combos from then had Ge
outputs?

--
Live Fast, Die Young and Leave a Pretty Corpse

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 8 2011 5:44 pm
From: "Arfa Daily"

"William Sommerwerck" <grizzledgeezer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:iispii$tmi$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> There shouldn't be a need to compensate for temps in
>> something that doesn't put out a lot of wattage in the
>> first place.
>
> Not so -- not for germanium transistors, anyway, which were very
> temperature-sensitive. Look at the schematic for any early transistor
> radio -- there's a diode or thermistor in the output stage.
>
> I was the first to suggest temperature compensation -- but also pointed
> out
> it was unlikely.
>
>

Many modern amps still have temperature compensation for the output
stage(s). However, it's very unusual to see it made from any transistor
package larger than a TO92 in a typical 10 to 60 watt hifi rig. These will
often be clamped to the heatsink on their 'flat' side, with a sizeable
dollop of white heat goop. They may also be encountered pushed into a hole
in the heatsink, or sometimes just pushed or glued against it. Occasionally,
they can be found clamped between the heatsink, and the PCB. You will also
see the same mounting tricks used with glass (1N4148) silicon diodes, and
sometimes with them just sticking up from the board and close to - but not
actually touching - the heatsink. Very occasionally, you will find a tiny
bead thermistor doing the job.

I have only seen flatpack transistors being used for this purpose where
we're talking big power levels, such as in PA amps.

However, repairing this Chinese crap every day of my working life, I can say
that it is extremely common to find one or more flatpack devices, additional
to those being used for the output stage, mounted on the same heatsink. I
guess this is to cut down on cost. Invariably, these 'extra' devices, are
simple linear voltage regulator pass transistors, and that is what I would
be fairly sure that the OP's fifth transistor would be.

Arfa

==============================================================================
TOPIC: And today's little bit of time-wasting lead-free nonsense ...
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.electronics.repair/t/6de2b1df275b761d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 9 2011 12:26 am
From: "N_Cook"

Arfa Daily <arfa.daily@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Qnf4p.45514$837.38425@newsfe19.ams2...
> A big heavy Quad sub. It's been so long since I've seen anything new with
> the Quad name on it, I wasn't even sure that they were still going.
Anyway,
> this thing always worked in that the amplifier kept producing output, but
> there was, at the very least, a background 'rustle' and at worst an
> alarmingly loud crackle, that can't have been doing the internal bass
driver
> any good. Not affected by volume setting, so output or PSU. Nothing really
> conclusive to be seen on a 'scope. When it was doing it, you could 'see'
it
> virtually anywhere, including on the output stage power rails, which were
> bouncing around all over the place. It had a 'feel' of an intermittent
> output transistor about it. Nothing physical such as heat, cold or
vibration
> would provoke it, so I initially rejected thoughts of bad joints. There
are
> four output Tr's in it - 2 x PNP and 2 x NPN , paralleled up, so I removed
> one pair. No difference. Still worked perfectly well, and still had the
> random crackle. So I swapped the first two transistors back in. No change.
> Some time was then spent trying to prove where the noise was coming from,
> without any positive results, Eventually, I decided that it might
actually
> be a bad joint. There was no indication that the board was built with
> lead-free solder, other than the fact that the joints were conical and
dull.
>
> I set about doing a blanket re-solder, and quickly ran into trouble. I
don't
> know what on earth sort of solder they had used, but even on small joints,
> my temperature controlled bench iron was struggling. I even wound it up
full
> to 450 deg, and it still wasn't good. On larger joints like the smoothing
> caps and the very chunky rectifier diodes, it wasn't having any of it at
> all. Eventually, I had to dig out my 45 year old 140 watt Weller gun. At
> least that made short work of reflowing the joints, but of course, you've
> got to then be twice as careful about running joints into one another, as
> the tip is really too big for this sort of job.
>
> In the end, when it was all back together, it was silent, so I have to
> conclude that it *was* a bad joint. But what makes it so frustrating from
a
> commercial 'let's make some money from this repair' point of view, is that
> unlike conventional leaded solder joints when they go bad, you just can't
> provoke lead-free bad joints to show themselves by any of the time-tested
> and trusted methods.
>
> I hate the stuff with a passion >:-(
>
> Arfa
>

Is one of your inducers an engraving tool with an insert of a nylon bolt
with "sharpened" end/tip? to pcb only , no direct contact to any SMD of
course as likely to flip them off.
Unfortunately you have to monitor the o/p with phones because of the noise
of the engraver. So what sort of solder do you think it was ? high Cu and
tin ? at those sorts of temp very high probability of temp induced Si
failures. Manufacture date?

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