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Ignoramus7945 <ignoramus7945@NOSPAM.7945.invalid>: Apr 24 07:55AM -0500 I have a lot of things, most of which have batteries, and therefore I have a lot of battery chargers.   My experience with them has been generally negative. The worst are the so called "smart" chargers.   The problem is that they are often the opposite of "smart". They go crazy and stop charging for no reason, or worse, drain the batteries. Additionally, they fail due to things such as cold weather or whatever, things any decently made item should handle.   The chargers, at least for lead acid batteries, would really be better off, if they simply tried to maintain 13.3 volts or some such.   My question is, is my experience unique and atypical, or have you also had bad experience with battery chargers.   Thanks   i

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com>: Apr 24 08:37AM -0500 Ignoramus7945 <ignoramus7945@NOSPAM.7945.invalid> fired this volley in > had bad experience with battery chargers.   > Thanks   > i   Ig, The problem with most consumer lead-acid battery chargers (and most of the pro versions, too) are built on 30-to-40-year-old technology.   The 'smartest' consumer lead-acide smart-charger isn't nearly as adaptable as the chargers on most kids' hand-held toys.   There are some smart 'maintenance' type chargers out there. But even those are 10-year-old tech.   LLoyd

legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca>: Apr 24 09:56AM -0500 On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 07:55:52 -0500, Ignoramus7945 >had bad experience with battery chargers.   >Thanks   >i Most simple lead-acid chargers do just that, and only for one battery voltage. The larger the charger, the more likely it is designed for one specific application.   The more elaborate they are, the more things that can go wrong to confuse the controller and trigger protective circuitry.   Smart chargers and particularly smart chargers intended to charge 'smart' batteries have the worst record. If you examine their state-machine organization, you will see innumerable vectors that result in incomplete charging functions, or cyclical fault loops, with little regard for completion of the intended task.   This is getting better, with time, but there is poor emphasis on battery charging integrity in the development of most new products that offer rechargeable battery options. It is considered as an add-on, or a feature that can be handled in firmware, despite the lack of experience that programmer's may have in the power electronics field.   As a result, established products can be expected to operate more reliably, as they benefit from their previous iterations, similar to other software-dependent applications.   RL

Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com>: Apr 24 08:04AM -0700 On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 07:55:52 -0500, Ignoramus7945 >had bad experience with battery chargers.   >Thanks   >i   There are good battery chargers, there are fair battery chargers and there are a large...large number of Junk battery chargers.   Most common battery chargers are designed for the homeowner. These tend to be more or less... junk, make in China, of materials/components that are apparently designed to have a minimal life span. Personally..I think its a crime to sell them. False advertising at best.   Here is a listing of the best homeowner type chargers, per reviewers   http://car-battery-charger-review.toptenreviews.com/   Here is a brand that is quite good.   http://www.usabatterychargers.com/commercial_battery_charger.htm   And another   https://www.batterystuff.com/battery-chargers/12-volt/gel-cell/ICS1225.html   Some..some of Schumachers chargers are quite good. Some.   http://www.batterychargers.com/blog/schumacher-sc10030a-battery-charger-rated-1two-years-in-a-row/   That being said....USING battery chargers Can be more involved than hooking up 2 leads and plugging it in. You need to know if the battery itself can actually be recharged. You said something about the charge indicator needle banging back and forth.... you do know that USUALLY indicates either a badly calcified battery or one that has broken plates...IE..an internal short...right? Batteries need to be charged in certain environmental conditions as well. Trying to get a marginal charger to charge a battery that has been sitting stone cold dead for 4 yrs after being removed from an off road pickup truck, in the dead of winter....is an exercise for someone with nothing better to do with their life. Etc etc etc. Trying to jump/charge a diesel truck battery in the Freightliner, with a float charger meant for small cars...simply wont work very well either.....   Ive got about 4 -6 chargers at the moment..most of them purchased at yard sales. Each one of them has been beat to hell by the previous owners. Ive had to take them apart, straighten out internal bends and breaks that happened when they fell off tall shelves, were kicked into the corner, were run over and so forth. An elderly Schumacher is the oldest..and has given me the best service for at least 15 yrs. I also have a floor model that is in the To Do pile..its older than dirt but should be easy to restore when I get the time to fuck with it.   Ive used 12volt forklift chargers with great sucess over the years. Some are very good indeed. Others..older ones...are simply larger versions of home use chargers. They will charge a battery in good condition and not run flat and left sitting for 5 yrs, quite well. Other batteries less well treated...not so much.   Gunner

Ignoramus7945 <ignoramus7945@NOSPAM.7945.invalid>: Apr 24 10:25AM -0500 > Here is a brand that is quite good.   > http://www.usabatterychargers.com/commercial_battery_charger.htm   I like those chargers, thanks.   i > That being said....USING battery chargers Can be more involved than > hooking up 2 leads and plugging it in. You need to know if the > battery itself can actually be recharged.   And this is why, any decent battery charger needs to have both amps AND volts displays. With these two you can figure out what is going on very quickly.   i

whoyakidding@gmail.com: Apr 24 08:36AM -0700 On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 08:04:01 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:     >Ive got about 4 -6 chargers at the moment.   I love the variable number! Typical Wieber. LOL So are you a crazy hoarder, or are you the classic don't-fix-it-if-you-can-get-away-with-constantly-charging type of battery expert?   1. Get a job so you can afford new batteries when needed. 2. Learn how to diagnose electrical issues so that you're not dealing with dead batteries all the time.   Then you'll find you only need one decent battery charger for emergencies, or for helping people who ignored 1. and 2. Bonus, you can hold a yard and earn between $15 and $25 selling your fleet of chargers.

whoyakidding@gmail.com: Apr 24 08:45AM -0700 On Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:25:19 -0500, Ignoramus7945 >volts displays. With these two you can figure out what is going on >very quickly.   >i   DC clamp multimeters are cheap and any serious DIYer should have one. Duplicating that functionality on a charger is more of a want than a need.

Heisenberg <Barry@saymyname.com>: Apr 21 06:25PM +1000 On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 09:15:55 +0100, MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:     >When you write "affect"/"effect" I take it you mean altering the >resonance. It would be foolish to measure only resonance without also >measuring Q, which would certainly be altered by metals.   To effect radio tuned circuits is to cause them to exist.   >Mike.   =-=- "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Heisenberg <Barry@saymyname.com>: Apr 21 06:31PM +1000 On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 09:24:15 +0100, MJC <gravity@mjcoon.plus.com> wrote:   >> <http://stores.ebay.com/22newcentury/_i.html?_nkw=wire+hooks>   >Perhaps someone should invent caiman clips. Ideally they would be sold >duty-free (=Cayman; geddit?).   In Telstra we used EZed hooks.     >Mike.   =-=- "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

Heisenberg <Barry@saymyname.com>: Apr 22 05:35AM +1000 On Thu, 21 Apr 2016 11:18:00 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote:   ><https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=pogo+pin+receptacle> >Lots of different sizes and tip types.   >Once you get into using these pins, you'll find yourself addicted.   Are you familiar with IDS and wirewrap?   =-=- "Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM*." David Melville (*Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders)

hrhofmann@att.net: Apr 23 08:46PM -0700 <The resistor or NTC limits the surge current to a value that is tolerated <indefinitely by fuses, diodes and switches used in the PSU - ie something like <20amps peak for a couple of milliseconds.   I think that since the surge current occurs during the peak of the 120V 60Hz power waveform, I think the timing is more like several milliseconds or a few 10's of milliseconds at most, but not just a couple of milliseconds.

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Apr 24 12:48AM -0700 hrho...@att.net wrote:     " The resistor or NTC limits the surge current to a value that is tolerated indefinitely by fuses, diodes and switches used in the PSU - ie something like 20amps peak for a couple of milliseconds. "     > 60Hz power waveform, I think the timing is more like several milliseconds > or a few 10's of milliseconds at most, but not just a couple of > milliseconds.   ** The surge occurs soon as the PSU is switched on - the magnitude depends on the timing relative to the AC wave. My comments referred to the worst case surge, when the switch on is at or near an AC voltage peak. When this happens and if the total series resistance is say 5 ohms and the main electro is 220uF, the time constant is 1mS.   Remember, the context was all about *SMALL* SMPSs.     .... Phil

Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Apr 24 11:35AM I suppose the advantage of the resistor solution - apart from the fact that I already have lots of suitable ones in my junk box - is that the PSU remains protected even when the power supply is temporarily interrupted, say when someone turns it off and on again over a short interval.

DaveC <not@home.cow>: Apr 23 10:31PM -0700 "How do I turn off the bathroom light?"   https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbXWbQ-W8AAwSA8.jpg

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