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dplatt@coop.radagast.org (Dave Platt): Jul 13 11:08AM -0700 In article <93e94a98-82b6-480f-8ee8-7c2376405b7a@googlegroups.com>, >zero evidence of this on the net but you can prove it yourself. Just >leave some milk out of the fridge and let it go bad. It no longer goes >sour, it goes bitter.   That's scarcely proof... and a claim that's made on the basis of "zero evidence of this on the net" isn't really to be taken seriously, I think.   Have you not heard of "pasteurization"? It is standard procedure in the U.S. to require that commercially-sold milk products be pasteurized, and has been for roughly a century.   Standard milk pasteurization temperatures kill almost all pathogenic bacteria in the milk, and also kill most of the bacteria which cause milk to sour naturally. These temperatures are *not* high enough to kill all of the bacteria in raw milk... and some relatively slow-growing heat-tolerant bacteria will survive and will cause the milk to go bad after a few days.   It's possible to buy ("ultra-heat-treated") milk, which has been heated briefly to well above boiling temperature for a few seconds. It can be stored at room temperature for months.   The details of this process haven't changed very much in decades. I learned about this in microbiology class, in high school, back in the late 1960s. My teacher made the distinction between "goes sour" and "goes bad" way back then. It's nothing new.   Pasteurization is a more thorough process than your proposed "virus attacks the bacteria" treatment would be. Heat treatment kills or stunts most species of bacteria and archaea in the milk. Viruses would very probably attack only a limited range of the bacteria... even if they killed the "souring" bacteria such as Lactobacillus, they would leave other species untouched (e.g. E. coli) and the milk would still require pasteurization to be sold legally and safely.

jurb6006@gmail.com: Jul 13 01:14PM -0700 >"That's scarcely proof... and a claim that's made on the basis of >"zero evidence of this on the net" isn't really to be taken >seriously, >I think. "   Don't believe it then, but I don't make shit up. There WAS evidence of it which has all been removed. How do you think I found out ?   I did NOT imagine this.

"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Jul 13 01:44PM -0700 > Don't believe it then, but I don't make shit up. There WAS evidence of it which has all been removed. How do you think I found out ?   > I did NOT imagine this.   No, you did not. However, it is quite common knowledge and you have seriously misplaced the application.   My wife makes yogurt from whole milk and active cultures she saves from the previous batch. She makes it Asian style (thin as light cream) and Euro style - thick as pudding. It is a matter of the culture, cure time and base used. Were there the "virus" as you suggest in the milk, this simply would not happen.   http://www.listex.eu/product/   I think you conflated this product with paranoid imaginings, perhaps some mind-altering substances and a few other imagined conspiracies.   Here is the basic failure point of _ALL_ serious conspiracies from the faked moon landing to the Masons and Knights Templar ruling the earth. In order for any such thing to be true, uncounted thousands must be "in" on the secret. Human nature being what it is, at least a hundred or so of these uncounted thousands are going to let the secret escape, and with real, credible proof. It may be impossible to prove the negative, but it is laughingly easy to prove what actually exists.   As to "removing" all the proof from the net - that would be yet another impossible conspiracy.   Or, in the immortal words of Stephen Stills:   There's something happening here But what it is ain't exactly clear There's a man with a gun over there Telling me I got to beware   I think it's time we stop Children, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?   There's battle lines being drawn Nobody's right if everybody's wrong Young people speaking' their minds Getting so much resistance from behind   It's time we stop Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?   What a field day for the heat A thousand people in the street Singing songs and carrying signs Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"   It's time we stop Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?   Paranoia strikes deep Into your life it will creep It starts when you're always afraid Step out of line, the men come and take you away   We better stop Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?   We better stop Hey, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?   We better stop Now, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?   We better stop Children, what's that sound? Everybody look - what's going down?

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jul 13 03:52PM -0700 On Tue, 12 Jul 2016 23:07:52 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison   >> I stand half way corrected. Y'er right. Most of the tarnish is >> silver sulphide.   >** There is simply no silver oxide formed at room temp.   <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarnish> Tarnish is a thin layer of corrosion that forms over copper, brass, silver, aluminum, magnesium and other similar metals as their outermost layer undergoes a chemical reaction. Tarnish does not always result from the sole effects of oxygen in the air. For example, silver needs hydrogen sulfide to tarnish, although it may tarnish with oxygen over time.   I'm not sure how much time is required, but my guess is that it's in months.   >Even the smallest leakage current can be a disaster with electronics - >track to track on PBCs or between plate and grid pins of a vacuum tube >or its socket.   Good point. However, I couldn't find anything on the electrical conductivity of oleic acid. <https://www.ebi.ac.uk/chembldb/index.php/compound/inspect/ChEMBL8659> <https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/445639> If I feel ambitious, I'll try some on a glass slide with my antique hand crank Megger meter. Something like this: <http://www.richardsradios.co.uk/megger.html> Last time I used it, I managed to zap myself, so I'm not thrilled with doing this. Still, it's handy for measuring leakage resistance and torturing customers to pay my exorbitant fees.   >Products like WD40 are certain to cause no leakage.   Well, at least you have the correct approach. If you don't know, try it and see what it really does. It's much better to test than to speculate. However, my opinions and experiences with WD40 are somewhat different than yours. I'll use it for all kinds of mechanical devices, but I keep it away from electronics for the same reason you seem to dislike oleic acid. Both tend to migrate to where they don't belong.   Drivel: No matter what the topic of the discussion, if it is about chemicals for electronics, the discussion will inevitably gravitate down to WD40.   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>: Jul 13 03:56PM -0700 On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 03:03:31 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison   >> If true, what is that shit on my silver candy bowl ?   A layer of sugar eating bugs perhaps?   > ** As already explained, it's "Silver Sulphate" or Ag2S !!!   Minor correction. Ag2S is silver sulphide, not sulphate: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_sulfide>   > Just like all the other half wit, WD40 paranoids   "Only the paranoid survive". (Andrew Grove)   "Trust no one". <https://www.google.com/search?q=trust+no+one&tbm=isch>   -- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jul 13 04:28PM -0700 On 07/13/2016 3:52 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: >>>> ** The dark coating that forms on silver is *silver sulphate* (aka Ag2S).   >>> I stand half way corrected. Y'er right. Most of the tarnish is >>> silver sulphide.   ...   > Drivel: No matter what the topic of the discussion, if it is about > chemicals for electronics, the discussion will inevitably gravitate > down to WD40.   I think we will call this Jeff's Law.   John ;-#)#   -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>: Jul 13 11:06AM -0700 On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 8:09:30 AM UTC-7, Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:   > Yes, I figured that there was some heat related reason why the halogens were blowing so often and taking the transformers with them and i keep a stock of them in reserve. But can I render those transformers MORE reliable by putting LEDs in ...   Mostly, LED replacements will take less current and won't tolerate high temperatures. That's a problem, because taking less current means the transformer will hum, and halogen fixtures are designed to keep the lamps hot (for the self-healing filament chemistry to work).   For best results, replace a halogen fixture with an LED fixture. Bulb 'replacement' is really a kind of redesign, and not optimal from a lighting engineering standpoint.

Baron <baron@linuxmaniac.net>: Jul 13 07:49PM +0100 >>> blows. I also have an Ikea fitting supporting three 12v halogen >>> bulbs on which the bulbs dont blow as often but the whole >>> supporting transformer seems to blow every few years.   I replaced all the 50W halogen bulbs in my kitchen and bathroom with 240V GU10 LED bulbs. Rip the transformers out and replace the bulb holder. I bought my LED lamps from "Pound Stretcher" at £2.45p each, and the holders came in packs of ten, about £4.00p three years on and I've yet to replace one. A lot less hassle then having to get the steps out three or four times a year...   -- Best Regards: Baron.

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu>: Jul 13 02:46PM -0500 Amanda Ripanykhazov wrote:   > for LED bulbs, can I render those transformers MORE reliable by putting > LEDs in and adding (say) one or two bulbs to the Ikea unit to compensate > for the lower current draw? Can you get LED drop-in replacements for these bulbs? The Halogen lamps run off constant-voltage AC. the LEDs (internally) run off constant-current DC. The "bulbs" would need to have a rectifier/regulator built into them. You certainly can get these for 120 V Edison-base sockets, not so sure about track lighting systems.   Jon

Amanda Riphnykhazova <licensedtoquill@gmail.com>: Jul 13 03:10PM -0700 Thanks guys: The LED vendors (in China) all tout their MR16s as being direct replacements for the MR16 12v halogens

Jon Elson <jmelson@wustl.edu>: Jul 13 02:41PM -0500 N_Cook wrote:   > Tried cleaning plug and socket of coarse,and contact treatment oil and > nothing obviously wrong with line plug plating/surface, but before > trying to replace plug and socket , what to try?   Is this the triple-coaxial plugs they use on Dells? The outer barrel is gnd, the inner side of the barrel is +19.5 V, the center pin is some resistor or something that classifies the power supply's capacity.   I'm not exactly sure what kind of contacts are in the laptop's socket, the supply's plug doesn't have any springy parts in it. I'd guess the laptop's socket contacts have gotten worn or lost their spring temper.   Jon

N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Jul 13 09:22PM +0100 On 13/07/2016 20:41, Jon Elson wrote: > supply's plug doesn't have any springy parts in it. I'd guess the laptop's > socket contacts have gotten worn or lost their spring temper.   > Jon   Although the pin of the chassis socket is shrouded so could be 3 wire, I think the line plug is 2 contact. Taking a closer look at the line plug its probably a plating problem on the patch where the cable would normally have lane "o'clock" sense. I'll try and confirm the plug is 2 contact only and try finding a replacement and fudge-jumper that in initially.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>: Jul 13 10:23PM +0100 Jon Elson wrote:   > Is this the triple-coaxial plugs they use on Dells? The outer barrel is > gnd, the inner side of the barrel is +19.5 V, the center pin is some > resistor or something that classifies the power supply's capacity.   More than just a resistor, I think it's a 1-wire bus.

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 05:03PM On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 02:01:44 -0600, 90 psig wrote:   > So every 2 years I empty the fridges, roll them > outside on the deck and give the coils a good 90 > psig blow job.   That gave me an idea!   I hooked a 100-foot air hose to my wheeled 100psi 220VAC compressor in the garage, and found that it's exactly 100 feet from the bottom of the garage steps to the refrigerator condenser coils!   They're all clean now! http://i.cubeupload.com/q1fSgx.jpg   But, while I was lying on my stomach on the floor behind the frig, I suddenly heard my sister scream for my wife to come to the kitchen quick!   Oooh oooh busted! http://i.cubeupload.com/Vvbex9.jpg   PS: My wife wants her kitchen back! :)

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 05:09PM On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 07:56:28 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:   > If you'd done what I said, and played along, > this could have been fixed last week. Hope > you are enjoying your self.   I don't see why you're so angry.   I'm trying to fix the frig while keeping my sister from saying "I told you so" and while my wife is constantly asking me when she can have her kitchen back.   I've never even *looked* at the back of a frig before (although I know basic refrigeration theory from high-school chemistry).   The 1/2-to-1/3HP hard-start cap isn't working. Half the time it starts the compressor, and half the time it does NOT start the compressor.

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 05:54PM On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 05:48:41 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote:   > From your new testing, it would seem that you've confirmed what you > already thought. Something is wrong with either the compressor or a > restriction in the lines.   Thanks for that suggestion.   All   All I know, at this point, is that half the time the compressor starts and half the time it won't start, even with the hard-start cap installed.   > More likely it's a bad compressor, so it's harder to start than it should be.   It sure is!   > The hard start kit gave it the > additional kick it needed to get going, but ultimately it failed > anyway because after some time it overloads and trips.   That seems to be the case. This morning, after sitting overnight, it did NOT start with the hard start cap, and pulled 13.5 Amps. http://i.cubeupload.com/Wo2RvQ.jpg   > That is assuming the hardstart kit has the correct cap size for the > motor.   Let's hope that the cap is just too small for the motor horsepower.   Unfortunately, the motor doesn't say the horsepower (which is odd for a motor but this is a motor/compressor combo): http://i.cubeupload.com/34bCaq.jpg   Given it takes about 3 amps of current when running, googling, I find the formumla for horsepower (for single phase?) to be: (Volts x Amps x 1.732 x Eff x PF)/746   I assume an efficiency of, oh, I don't know, maybe 0.65?   I don't really understand power factor for a single-phase motor: http://ecmweb.com/content/power-factor-correction-single-induction-motors   So I will just assume a power factor of 1. 120volts x 3amps x 1.732 x 0.65efficiency x 1 power factor)/746   I think that makes it about 1/2 HP motor, but, I also think it pulled 1.5 amps before, so that makes it really about 1/4 horsepower (I think).   So, I'll split the difference (not knowing any better yet), and call it between 1/3 and 1/4 horsepower, which means it is the correct sized capacitor.   Going back to the package, hmmm... it seems to be for that size: http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jpg > the cold air? If the fan is shot or blocked, it will ice up and > the compressor will probably have an increased load on it that > could cause trouble, resulting in it shutting down.   The fan "inside" the frig? There's a fan inside the frig?   I opened the frig, and didn't hear or see any fan or feel air movement, but, the freezer seems to have a fan, which seems to be working. I don't know *where* that freezer fan is, but it's near the top (I think) behind the bulkhead somewhere, I think. It seems to be working from sound alone.   Is there another fan I'm missing?   Even so, the compressor won't start now. It started once out of about 10 tries, and it went off only because the wife wanted the wires cleaned up (snaking across the kitchen floor) and I accidentally unplugged it. http://i.cubeupload.com/Dio9Uz.jpg

"Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 13 06:03PM On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 07:44:12 -0700, Oren wrote:   > Um... "NO START WITHOUT STARTING DEVICE" :-\   Hi Oren,   I guess that means you're actually looking at the pictures!   We know the cap is needed, based on that, so, it makes sense that the test jig without the cap wouldn't ever have worked.   This morning it wouldn't start, even though it was cool, so I started wondering if the power coming out of the refrigerator cord was being shunted in some other circuit, since the hard-start cap was hooked to the same power as the rest of the refrigerator: http://i.cubeupload.com/62T0dG.jpg   To give the compressor its own dedicated power, I created a test cord with alligator clamps so that I could have a dedicated power for the compressor.   Note in this picture the open refrigerator leads: http://i.cubeupload.com/VsCyzM.jpg   But, nothing seems to have changed by giving the compressor its own dedicated wall outlet: http://i.cubeupload.com/Dio9Uz.jpg   When it works (which right now is about 1 out of 10 times), it draws only a couple of amps, but when it fails (which is most of the time), it draws a whopping 13.5 amps! http://i.cubeupload.com/Wo2RvQ.jpg   I am trying to understand what makes the compressor start sometimes, and what makes it not start most of the time, all under essentially the same conditions.   To debug what's going on, I need to CHANGE some condition. But what condition can I change that will lead me to a diagnosis of what's really wrong?

Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Jul 13 11:10AM -0700 On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 17:54:27 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."   >All I know, at this point, is that half the time the compressor starts and >half the time it won't start, even with the hard-start cap installed.   Could be a bad part out of the box? Known to happen.   My HVAC Tech replaced a Supco SPD (surge protector device) on my AC compressor. Warranty, no cost. Changed brands I think.

"pfjw@aol.com" <pfjw@aol.com>: Jul 13 11:18AM -0700 On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 1:54:31 PM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:   > tries, and it went off only because the wife wanted the wires cleaned up > (snaking across the kitchen floor) and I accidentally unplugged it. > http://i.cubeupload.com/Dio9Uz.jpg   Forgive me for being a bit strident here.   a) Either your time is worth about US$0.35/hour, or you are willing to expend vast amounts of time to avoid landfill. b) I am guessing that the unit is pushing 8 years old, possibly more. c) Replacing a compressor in a home refrigerator is not for the faint of heart or for the uncertified technician. The unit alone is costly, evacuating the lines and flushing out any debris requires complicated tools, and you really will not get your money back as even with all this, the unit will never be "like new".   With all that in mind, and the fact that this will not get any better, start looking for a new refrigerator. Now. Your wife deserves better than this, and for a fact, Home Depot is having one helluva sale on LG & Samsung, and if you are anywhere near Delaware, the Sears Scratch-Dent store has always treated us well - we have a now 10-year old GE that had a list price of $1,299 that we got for $699. Sure it has a gouge on the back, but no torn sheet-metal, and it works fine. I am sure you have other local resources as well. So, ask yourself: $300 for compressor and related parts. A vacuum pump, rent or purchase. Refrigerant, oil, flush kit and so on. Gonna be at least half the cost of a brand new unit *at retail*. Now, try purchasing the extended warranty this time if you really want to avoid this crap in the first place.   Peter Wieck Melrose Park, PA

FrozenNorth <frozennorth.ask@gmail.com>: Jul 13 02:19PM -0400 On 2016-07-13 2:03 PM, Danny D. wrote:   > To debug what's going on, I need to CHANGE some condition. > But what condition can I change that will lead me to a diagnosis of what's > really wrong?   Good Lord, replace the cap, they are not that expensive, otherwise buy a new fridge, that costs more money. If the light comes on inside when you open the door the power works, why look beyond that?   -- Froz....

Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Jul 13 12:50PM -0700 On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 17:09:41 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D." >> this could have been fixed last week. Hope >> you are enjoying your self.   >I don't see why you're so angry.   He gets mad if your thread count is higher than his.   And he doesn't know you are a bean counter accountant with size 11.5 sneakers.

Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Jul 13 01:12PM -0700 On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 14:19:30 -0400, FrozenNorth   >If the light comes on inside when >you open the door the power works, why look beyond that?   The bulb inside is burnt out?

FrozenNorth <frozennorth.ask@gmail.com>: Jul 13 04:15PM -0400 On 2016-07-13 4:12 PM, Oren wrote:   >> If the light comes on inside when >> you open the door the power works, why look beyond that?   > The bulb inside is burnt out?   If the light come on power is working, if the compressor does not power is still working. If both are out then there are other issues.   -- Froz....

capitan <capitan@privacy.net>: Jul 13 03:23PM -0500 Danny D. wrote: >> this could have been fixed last week. Hope >> you are enjoying your self.   > I don't see why you're so angry.   ...   Because he has the emotional maturity of a toddler in the terrible 2s. Just ask DerbyDad03, he had a cow on him for no reason, and I'm sure there are others in this group also.

Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk>: Jul 13 09:47PM +0100 En el artículo <nm19hs$51n$1@news.mixmin.net>, Danny D.   >What do you make of these results?   1) you're obsessive-compulsive   2) you're extremely boring   3) you won't take a hint even when it's delivered with a sledgehammer   4) you need help from a mental health professional   5) you need a new fridge   6) if she hasn't already, your latest wife is about to divorce you   HTH. HAND.   -- (\_/) (='.'=) systemd: the Linux version of Windows 10 (")_(")

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