- Debug advice Kenmore coldspot 106-59422801 stopped refrigerating - 8 Updates
- Could this be power supply related? - 3 Updates
- LM317 Votage Regulator Instability? - 9 Updates
- Extech DC clamp meter, large DC offset developed. - 5 Updates
| "Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 14 06:01PM On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 08:44:27 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote: > it would have been fixed several days ago. > I'm also fairly sure I know why your compressor > keeps going off. I'm not sure why the repeatedly cryptic riddles, but I don't understand them. I did *every* single thing that people, including you suggested. I answered *every* single question that people, including you, asked. The compressor only went on twice out of a few dozen tries, after the hard-start cap. Either the hard-start cap 'went bad', or something else is wrong. I left no stone unturned that was suggested and no question unanswered that was asked. Not one. So you can remain cryptic with riddles or you can ask a simple question or suggest a test - but the cryptic riddles you're repeating are not useful in and of themselves, except to amuse you but they don't amuse me. I do realize I'm asking you for help, but I'm asking you to stop with the riddles becuase I don't understand the puzzles you are purposefully proposing. If you *really* wanted me to answer a question, you'd simply ask it instead of providing riddle (after riddle after riddle). I mean, how hard can your question be? I answered *EVERYTHING* asked of me. I tried *EVERYTHING* suggested. I can't be any more blunt (and I don't do riddles). No more riddles please. Just straight talk. 1. What is your question? 2. What is your suggestion? |
| Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Jul 14 11:34AM -0700 On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 01:52:34 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D." >> sneakers. >You know me better'n my mother does! >:) When I say the huckleberries are ripe, grab your bucket and run! I made a living studying people. |
| Oren <Oren@127.0.0.1>: Jul 14 11:45AM -0700 On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 18:01:56 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D." >I'm not sure why the repeatedly cryptic riddles, but I don't understand >them. He wants to make you grovel, gnash teeth and beg for his advice. Can I call it a Usenet drive by shittin'? |
| Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 14 08:25PM -0400 On 7/14/2016 2:01 PM, Danny D. wrote: > I answered *every* single question that people, including you, asked. Nope. And, I asked twice. -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . . |
| Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 14 08:28PM -0400 On 7/14/2016 2:01 PM, Danny D. wrote: > No more riddles please. Just straight talk. > 1. What is your question? > 2. What is your suggestion? It's under this header, and also under subject line of "Debug advice, and a question for Danny D". -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . . |
| Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 14 08:31PM -0400 On 7/12/2016 11:36 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: > If it's out of warranty, [*are you any good withelectrical repairs*]? > Please write back, and we'llcontinue the discussion. Not that Danny reads my posts, you see. |
| Stormin Mormon <cayoung61@hotmail.com>: Jul 14 08:32PM -0400 On 7/14/2016 8:31 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: >> If it's out of warranty, [*are you any good withelectrical repairs*]? >> Please write back, and we'llcontinue the discussion. > Not that Danny reads my posts, you see. Fourth time I've posted the question. Or maybe fifth time. -- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus . www.lds.org . . |
| "Danny D." <dannydiamico@yahoo.com>: Jul 15 01:10AM On Wed, 13 Jul 2016 07:53:43 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote: > When you go back and answer my question, > I'll consider answer yours. As you know, I don't read every thread here. I just read the threads that I author. And I respond to EVERY valid question and point. You know this because I have done this for years. I just went (again) through each of the two dozen posts you made in this thread, and I don't see any suggestion that I didn't already do on my own, nor any question that is unanswered. Since I prove everything I say, below are the two dozen posts from you in this thread. a. Where is a suggestion that I didn't try? b. Where is there a question I didn't answer? ====================================================================== On 7/8/2016 7:22 PM, Danny D. wrote: > to the touch - but the coils are not. > I think the solenoid at the compressor "bulb" is what is making the noise. > Any debugging advice? Sounds just exactly like a bad start relay on the compressor. This is considered "sealed system". If you have the owners manual, see how long is the sealed system warranty. Probably five years, so you're out of warranty. If it's out of warranty, are you any good with electrical repairs? Please write back, and we'll continue the discussion. ====================================================================== On 7/8/2016 8:31 PM, tom wrote: > I would add that you should unplug the unit until you figure out what is > wrong. In the current condition the OC protection is greatly stressed and > will not last long. You are so, so right. The compressor will eventually over heat and might burn out. Thank you, well said. ====================================================================== On 7/8/2016 8:49 PM, Danny D. wrote: > F28/F11 which meant the motor control board was fried. > Before that, it was a non-operational furnace (bad thermistor), and before > that there were a host of things, most of which are working just fine now. CY: Glad to be some help. Any time (well, figuratively speaking). > liquid creates heat which is blown off by the fan - but I don't know the > mechanics of what I should expect (e.g., what pumps the fluid/gas through > the system? Gravity?). CY: The big black thing in the back is a compressor. > a. Motor > b. Compressor > c. Solenoid CY: No, the motor and compressor are inside. The start relay (and some have a relay and a capacitor) outside the sealed unit. The relay and cap should never contact refrigerant. That said, the company probably considers the relay and cap to be part of the sealed system. > 1. Is the sealed unit a replaceable part? > http://i.cubeupload.com/wAX37P.jpg (same pic as before) CY: Yes. Though, it's often not cost effective. Requires refrigerant pump, brazing, electrical, and more than that. Takes about three hours. > 2. Why would the top of the black sealed unit be hot to the touch? CY: The black sealed unit contains electric windings for the motor. The unit keeps trying to start the compressor. Amp draw, turns the electric watts into heat. > 3. Is there a motor overheat safety switch that may have tripped? CY: Yes, that combination amp and temp safety switch is what gives you the repeated hum click. > 4. Are those black coils in the bottom supposed to be warm or cold? > http://i.cubeupload.com/jgkVXv.jpg (same pic as before) CY: When the refrig is running, warm. They should NEVER get cold. > OUTSIDE of the sealed unit (it may be translating from inside though). What > is the purpose of that solenoid on the outside of the sealed unit? > http://i.cubeupload.com/p2OiCZ.jpg (same pic as before) CY: The compressor has two windings. Start, and run. The relay supplies power to the start winding, and then later power to the run winding. > In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back > in and report back. CY: I'm guessing it will do exactly the same hum click routine. It's late on the east coast, I'm going to bed. ====================================================================== On 7/8/2016 8:49 PM, Danny D. wrote: > In an hour or so, when the "sealed unit" has cooled down, I'll plug it back > in and report back. As a Kenmore, you may be able to buy OEM parts, but if it were my unit, I'd use a universal hard start kit. Seeing as how I carry them in my vehicle and use the universal kits at work. ====================================================================== On 7/8/2016 9:26 PM, Danny D. wrote: > Neither would budge. > Have you removed them before? > Is there a trick to removing them? To keep these parts from coming off. Pull straight out from compressor. Might need to pry with slotted screw driver. Wiggle them back and forth while pulling. ====================================================================== On 7/8/2016 10:40 PM, Danny D. wrote: > Is it even possible for a homeowner to replace the compressor #28? No. Sorry, but that takes a lot of skills that the average HO does not have. ====================================================================== On 7/9/2016 1:27 AM, Danny D. wrote: > b) relay, or > c) new frig? > Any idea how to test the relay? d) the suggestion Stormy gave yesterday. I've never tested a relay. Just replace, and see if the unit comes back to life. You may also answer my question, if you wish. The one I asked yesterday. ====================================================================== On 7/9/2016 12:29 PM, Danny D. wrote: > http://i.cubeupload.com/ewhAUP.jpg > The "courage" here is better than a shot of whiskey because you give me the > confidence that I just need to try harder! :) And, won't prevent you from being a Mormon. ====================================================================== On 7/9/2016 12:49 PM, Danny D. wrote: > On Sat, 9 Jul 2016 12:41:11 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote: >> And, won't prevent you from being a Mormon. > If I become a Mormon, do I have to tell my Italian wife? CY: Yes, many Italians are Mormons. > Maybe I'll make a deal with her: > Mormon for the refrigerator? CY: She'll love it! > PS: Is polygamy still allowed? CY: Not since 1890. ====================================================================== On 7/9/2016 12:47 PM, Danny D. wrote: > it in a few times. Here is a video of what happened. > http://tinypic.com/r/20ubk3d/9 > Can anyone tell, from that video, what is happening? Yes. I can. Totally what I diagnosed yesterday. ====================================================================== On 7/9/2016 6:50 PM, Danny D. wrote: > He really talked me out of buying both parts. They were each about 50 > bucks, and he said I'd just be unhappy. So he sent me home to do some more > diagnostics with a test cable, which I'm gonna make now. Danny, are my posts making it through your server? ====================================================================== On 7/9/2016 6:48 PM, Danny D. wrote: > 5. Yank off the start wire as soon as the compressor starts > If the compressor starts, then it's good. > If not ... Danny, are my posts making it to you, through your server? You've not answered my question. And you're going through a lot of bother which isn't really needed. But, did you ever do any thing simple? I leave you to your complications. ====================================================================== On 7/9/2016 6:48 PM, Danny D. wrote: > 5. Yank off the start wire as soon as the compressor starts > If the compressor starts, then it's good. > If not ... Danny, are my posts making it to you, through your server? You've not answered my question. And you're going through a lot of bother which isn't really needed. But, did you ever do any thing simple? I leave you to your complications. ====================================================================== On 7/12/2016 3:22 PM, Danny D. wrote: >> piston. > I don't know any other way to test for "mechanical" operation of the > compressor. Pump out all the refrigerant. Saw the top off the compressor. After the inspection, weld the compressor using a gas tight "bead" of weld. Replace the refrigerant. No problem for you, right? ====================================================================== On 7/12/2016 5:26 PM, tom wrote: > There are "hard start" compressor starters available that might be worth > looking at. Don't bother. I suggested that a week ago, and Danny totally ignored me. And ignored my hints and reminders. ====================================================================== On 7/12/2016 7:08 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote: >> my hints and reminders. > Actually, I don't think that you did. You probably meant to, but were > too pissed from his ignoring you. Think I remember at least one reminder. Well, moot point. He's gone so far afield on so many directions, there's no contacting him, now. ====================================================================== On 7/12/2016 10:57 PM, Danny D. wrote: > I think I tried *every* suggestion ever made in this thread. > Here's yours, but I don't remember it being suggested until today. > http://i.cubeupload.com/ja5XaK.jpg You never answered my question, and I never made any suggestions what to do. Other than suggesting you answer my question so we can move on. ====================================================================== On 7/12/2016 10:47 PM, Danny D. wrote: >> my hints and reminders. > You mean this? > http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jp "not found" is what the web page says. ====================================================================== On 7/12/2016 10:47 PM, Danny D. wrote: >> my hints and reminders. > You mean this? > http://i.cubeupload.com/VD0haS.jpg I added a g to the end of the URL, and got a picture. I can't comment on that, until you answer my question. ====================================================================== On 7/12/2016 11:21 PM, Danny D. wrote: > How do you respond so quickly? > I have to sit down at the computer to even see a message, so, I don't see > them in real time. Do you have something that goes to your phone? Coincidence. I'm on the east coast, and spend a bit of time on the computer in the evenings. What question? I only asked twice. ====================================================================== On 7/13/2016 12:56 AM, Danny D. wrote: > Is it OK to have the frig temporarily on two power cords? > a. One for the fan and the rest of the frig > b. One just for the compressor If you'd done what I said, and played along, this could have been fixed last week. Hope you are enjoying your self. ====================================================================== On 7/13/2016 1:09 PM, Danny D. wrote: > The 1/2-to-1/3HP hard-start cap isn't working. > Half the time it starts the compressor, and half the time it does NOT start > the compressor. Yes, it's obvious that you don't see. ====================================================================== On 7/13/2016 10:00 PM, Danny D. wrote: > I had never looked at the back of a frig in my life before. > I ask you guys for help because the frig is a riddle to me. > I don't need more riddles though. When you run into a problem, you can either do things differently, or force harder, using the technique which has failed up to that point. I offered you (repeatedly) a chance to do differently, and you ignored me repeatedly. This post is an example of trying to force your failing techniques even harder, and trying to force me to participate with your failings. I'll have you know, that I viewed NONE of the links, and barely read your text. By way of references, I've been working on domstic refrigerators for over 10 years. I'm fairly sure that if you'd done what I said, it would have been fixed several days ago. I'm also fairly sure I know why your compressor keeps going off. ====================================================================== On 7/14/2016 2:01 PM, Danny D. wrote: > I answered *every* single question that people, including you, asked. Nope. And, I asked twice. ====================================================================== On 7/14/2016 2:01 PM, Danny D. wrote: > No more riddles please. Just straight talk. > 1. What is your question? > 2. What is your suggestion? It's under this header, and also under subject line of "Debug advice, and a question for Danny D". ====================================================================== On 7/13/2016 2:02 AM, Danny D. wrote: > I was throwing away the frig as of this morning, so, there was no need to > clean the condenser coil. I guess I'll clean it now - although do you > really thing *that* is what is making the compressor cycle? When you go back and answer my question, I'll consider answer yours. ====================================================================== ====================================================================== |
| Ralph Mowery <rmowery28146@earthlink.net>: Jul 14 04:27PM -0400 In article <33ofob9nbm5l60cua18nirm836u856mqaa@4ax.com>, etpm@whidbey.com says... > video card too? Could the flaky power supply be affecting the video > card too? > Eric Some of the computers have been known to have capacitors that go bad after a few years. The classic symptom is the computer comes on when hot. Look at the larger capacitors that have leads going through the board. If the top of them is rounded off like a dome they are bad. They should be flat. This could be on the motherboard or video board. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
| dansabrservices@yahoo.com: Jul 14 02:12PM -0700 On Thursday, July 14, 2016 at 4:27:21 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote: > Look at the larger capacitors that have leads going through the board. > If the top of them is rounded off like a dome they are bad. They should > be flat. This could be on the motherboard or video board. Could be in the power supply too. Check all caps on the 5V or 3.3V lines. |
| mike <ham789@netzero.net>: Jul 14 04:22PM -0700 >> If the top of them is rounded off like a dome they are bad. They should >> be flat. This could be on the motherboard or video board. > Could be in the power supply too. Check all caps on the 5V or 3.3V lines. Put an oscilloscope on all the power supply lines and see if they look good. A typical voltmeter won't always see the problem. You can read 5V on the voltmeter and have horrible spikes on the line. Don't forget 5VSB. I've had several systems where the cap on the 5V standby supply went. Nothing else would run without it. |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Jul 14 08:39PM On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 15:50:43 -0400, Phil Hobbs wrote: >> though. > 100nF is guaranteed to make a 317 oscillate. Microfarads, me lad, > microfarads. I'll certainly give it a try first thing tomorrow, Phil. But I'm not optimistic given this confident pronouncement which I quote from the datasheet: "Typically, no capacitors are needed unless the device is situated more than 6 inches from the input filter capacitors, in which case an input bypass is needed. An optional output capacitor can be added to improve transient response. The adjustment terminal can be bypassed to achieve very high ripple rejection ratios that are difficult to achieve with standard 3-terminal regulators." So the manufacturers don't seem to think it's of any great importance at all. BTW, on the input side, the filter capacitor is less than one inch from the the reg's Vin terminal. |
| Lee <cyberwitch@ukonline.net>: Jul 14 09:46PM +0100 On 14/07/2016 19:40, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> a "crowbar effect", and the 100uf cap is usually suggested to >> ameliorate it. > The ones I'm using here are all NE555CN. It might be interesting to see if you have the same problem with an ICM7555, but it's much easier just to add the cap, as suggested :) :) |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Jul 14 09:19PM On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 21:46:53 +0100, Lee wrote: > It might be interesting to see if you have the same problem with an > ICM7555, but it's much easier just to add the cap, as suggested :) :) Quite! And I shall certainly do so first thing tomorrow. IF it works it will highlight an astonishing and appalling omission from the datasheet IMHO. |
| Lee <cyberwitch@ukonline.net>: Jul 14 10:44PM +0100 On 14/07/2016 22:19, Cursitor Doom wrote: > Quite! And I shall certainly do so first thing tomorrow. IF it works it > will highlight an astonishing and appalling omission from the datasheet > IMHO. IMO, The problem isn't so much the omission from the LM317 datasheet, it's more an omission from the NE555 one. Interestingly the ICM7555 datasheet says: "The ICM7555 and ICM7556 devices are, in most instances, direct replacements for the SE/NE 555/556 devices. However, it is possible to effect economies in the external component count using the ICM7555 and ICM7556. Because the bipolar SE/NE 555/556 devices produce large crowbar currents in the output driver, it is necessary to decouple the power supply lines with a good capacitor close to the device. The ICM7555 and ICM7556 devices produce no such transients" |
| John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>: Jul 14 03:42PM -0700 On 07/14/2016 11:47 AM, Cursitor Doom wrote: > Don't see how that's possible, Jeff, since it's still happy to supply > passive loads that are much heavier, and at a rock solid stable output > voltage. Jeff's point is you are at the maximum recommended input voltage, anything changing there and the device will go south,( east, west, or north - ) which may prove catastrophic. John :-#(# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
| ggherold@gmail.com: Jul 14 04:08PM -0700 On Thursday, July 14, 2016 at 4:39:48 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote: > So the manufacturers don't seem to think it's of any great importance at > all. BTW, on the input side, the filter capacitor is less than one inch > from the the reg's Vin terminal. I think Phil is suggesting uF's on the output. (I always put 4.7- 10 uF there.) I'm going with Jeff L's idea, that you've blown it up. Try another. They also make a HV version of the lm317.. which is the only version we stock. George H. |
| M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: Jul 14 07:18PM -0400 In article <nm8bok$rig$1@dont-email.me>, curd@notformail.com says... > timer boards causes the voltage to drop by the same amount also. > I can't recall this ever happening before! Any suggestions? > TIA. You may have two problems.. One, the timer is pulsing and thus causing a load variation. two, the 317 is a monolithic device and is sensitive to RF, meaning it can actually act as a detector in a sense.. of course, oscillatiion is common with these things, hence the need for caps. You should have a good storage cap on the output to handle riples from the load and also use some low inductive small caps across the electrolytic, input side and ref pin. ~50 uf for the load cap and maybe .1uf ceramic caps or the like for the RF snub. make sure you put a .1uf in parallel with the 50 or more uf cap. Jamie |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Jul 14 11:15PM On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 22:44:43 +0100, Lee wrote: Noted, Lee, and many thanks for the info. It's late here now so I won't be posting again until morning whereupon I'll report back with my findings! |
| Cursitor Doom <curd@notformail.com>: Jul 14 11:17PM On Thu, 14 Jul 2016 15:42:48 -0700, John Robertson wrote: > Jeff's point is you are at the maximum recommended input voltage, > anything changing there and the device will go south,( east, west, or > north - ) which may prove catastrophic. Yeah, there's not much headroom for sure. I'd sooner have used a LM317AHVT but I don't have any 'in stock' here - but that's what I'd have used if I'd had one. |
| M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: Jul 13 10:34PM -0400 Just got a Extech 845 , 1000 amp AC/DC clamp with a basic DMM on it and IR.. I used the DC amp once, it worked.. put the meter away, next day used it again. As soon as I select DC amps now, it shows a -32 Amp offset. I can zero it however, It looks like the value its reporting is ~ 50% of the actual value. I have not used this meter for nothing else yet, but I did plug in the test leads to check to make sure the rest of the meter worked after seeing this, and it seems to work ok on the other funtions.. Is anyone familiar with this failure ? The initial offset was only about +/- 0.5 amps if I remember.. Jamie |
| Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com>: Jul 13 09:44PM -0700 M Philbrook wrote: > I have not used this meter for nothing else yet, but I did plug in the > test leads to check to make sure the rest of the meter worked after > seeing this, and it seems to work ok on the other funtions.. ** As the problem only affects the DC amps ranges, it might be the jaws or other parts of the magnetic circuit have become magnetised so offsetting the Hall Effect sensor. Holding the meter near an analogue CRO screen will reveal if this is the case. Otherwise the unit has developed a fault. .... Phil |
| mike <ham789@netzero.net>: Jul 14 12:17AM -0700 On 7/13/2016 7:34 PM, M Philbrook wrote: > Is anyone familiar with this failure ? The initial offset was only > about +/- 0.5 amps if I remember.. > Jamie My DC clamp has the same problem. Got it used and it was that way from the start. I considered trying to demagnetize it, but fear the voltages induced by the attempt might bust something, so I just use the zero function. It takes a very small magnetic field to disrupt the zero. Unless the initial offset is 0.0, you have to zero it anyway. I contacted the vendor and they said, "push the zero button." I once had a DC clamp probe that zeroed itself every time you opened the jaws. Nice feature. |
| N_Cook <diverse@tcp.co.uk>: Jul 14 09:28AM +0100 On 14/07/2016 03:34, M Philbrook wrote: > Is anyone familiar with this failure ? The initial offset was only > about +/- 0.5 amps if I remember.. > Jamie I would get inside and clean any range/function switch contacts. Does the manual advice against use near loudspeakers, laying meter jaws next to screwdrivers etc |
| M Philbrook <jamie_ka1lpa@charter.net>: Jul 14 06:43PM -0400 In article <cb5fec08-5836-4b2d-ac79-94448873f41c@googlegroups.com>, pallison49@gmail.com says... > Holding the meter near an analogue CRO screen will reveal if this is the case. > Otherwise the unit has developed a fault. > .... Phil You gave me an idea.. We have a demagnetizer in the shop.. I can stick the jaws in it and give it a shot. Thanks.. |
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